the best diet for finishing cattle

farmingmad10

What do people think is the best feeds for finishing cattle in your own experiences. Lots of good feeds out their like bread beet spuds meal maize silage wholecrop but which is best diet to give. Would like to hear your opinions.

simx

farmingmad10 wrote: »

What do people think is the best feeds for finishing cattle in your own experiences. Lots of good feeds out their like bread beet spuds meal maize silage wholecrop but which is best diet to give. Would like to hear your opinions.

Fed sugar beet this year to two lots of then along with nuts and silage, thought it did make a noticeable difference, will be getting it again in the fall of the year

sheebadog

Maize, maize,maize. Especially now that it's so cost effective.

farmingmad10

1 man told me he gave cattle bread & eornagold & he neve seen cattle do aswell. they were out on grass he said & their was a good cover but they never eat the grass!

mahoney_j

Where's bob?????.agree with Sheba maize would be what is be basing the diet on

case 956

mahoney_j wrote: »

Where's bob?????.agree with Sheba maize would be what is be basing the diet on

Bob hasn't been seen since Galway Rag week he must have got lucky and now she has her feet unde the table all the cattle have been sold and he is devoting his love and attention to her :eek:

sheebadog

mahoney_j wrote: »

Where's bob?????.agree with Sheba maize would be what is be basing the diet on

More than based on Mahoney, I would suggest complete maize. With some source of fibre like hay. I feed cull Holsteins 18kg/day maize with adlib hay and you could see them " develop " in front of you (apologies to beef men)!!

epfff

sheebadog wrote: »

More than based on Mahoney, I would suggest complete maize. With some source of fibre like hay. I feed cull Holsteins 18kg/day maize with adlib hay and you could see them " develop " in front of you (apologies to beef men)!!

When you say maize you mean maize silage or?

sheebadog

epfff wrote: »

When you say maize you mean maize silage or?

Maize silage is not the job for real performance. Maize grain is where it's at for fattening.

Farmer Pudsey

Finishing cattle is about cost. You can have the most efficent cattle and the best feed but if the costs are wrong you still lose. You can have poor quality cattle and the right prices feed and make a profit.

In Ireland we are unlucky we have no access to byproduct due to our population base. Maize is questionable in Ireland as product is very varible. Maize meal slow down the gut and I find at too high levels cattle fail to preform. Good quality silage is key to keeping cost down however the removal of bull beef makes winter finishing uneconomical in Ireland.

sheebadog

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Finishing cattle is about cost. You can have the most efficent cattle and the best feed but if the costs are wrong you still lose. You can have poor quality cattle and the right prices feed and make a profit.

In Ireland we are unlucky we have no access to byproduct due to our population base. Maize is questionable in Ireland as product is very varible. Maize meal slow down the gut and I find at too high levels cattle fail to preform. Good quality silage is key to keeping cost down however the removal of bull beef makes winter finishing uneconomical in Ireland.

Agree on cost Pudsey but I've found that maize is like urea - the more you use the bigger the bang you get. Grass silage as a feed is questionable for pure finishing. I've fed ad lib maize grain with access to hay and to me it is the best. And considering that most merchants bought maize at less than €175/ton that should translate into a very cost effective feed to end users.

Farmer Pudsey

sheebadog wrote: »

Agree on cost Pudsey but I've found that maize is like urea - the more you use the bigger the bang you get. Grass silage as a feed is questionable for pure finishing. I've fed ad lib maize grain with access to hay and to me it is the best. And considering that most merchants bought maize at less than €175/ton that should translate into a very cost effective feed to end users.

Is that the french price at present maize is about 215/ton. never dropped much below 200/ton this year as far as I know. At present I am using a ration 40% maize,10% wheat, 4%molasses 1% calcium 1%minerals with balance made up of soyahulls 10%, maize gluten and rapeseed meal. It is costing 240/ton into bin.

Finished 28 cattle this winter, will be slow with the absence of bulls to finish any next winter. Usually silage makes up 50-60% of diet for bullocks and 30% for bulls. Finishing is all about targeting and this is not working this year. Ad-lib feeding in Ireland is not a runner without byproducts.

farmingmad10

bread is meant to be serious for fattening. v high in starch. what is a balanced diet for cattle? ad lib meal they do v well but it v expensive way. you cant beat homegrown forage it is always the cheapest way of producing milk or beef rather than ration. crops like fodder beet can be cheap feeds to produce. good lot of spuds for sale for cattle feed now as the potato trade is bad atm. they are great feeding too v easily processed by the animal. v high in energy.

sheebadog

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Is that the french price at present maize is about 215/ton. never dropped much below 200/ton this year as far as I know. At present I am using a ration 40% maize,10% wheat, 4%molasses 1% calcium 1%minerals with balance made up of soyahulls 10%, maize gluten and rapeseed meal. It is costing 240/ton into bin.

Finished 28 cattle this winter, will be slow with the absence of bulls to finish any next winter. Usually silage makes up 50-60% of diet for bullocks and 30% for bulls. Finishing is all about targeting and this is not working this year. Ad-lib feeding in Ireland is not a runner without byproducts.

Merchants bought at less than €175 unless they are thick - they make a margin.
I feed just two ingredients.... Soya for protein and maize for energy.

It's all fairly simple, if your diet is strong on protein you balance with energy and visa versa.

While merchants may sometimes appear to offer value you just price it down to the benchmarks of Soya and Maize.

To me Merchants are like commodity traders - they will sell you whats makes them the best margin.
Can't say I will never use soya hulls or gluten or the likes but I'll always price them against the benchmarks.
At the minute full fat oil seed rape is good value.

farmingmad10

soya hulls are good to use good protein & a digestible fibre feed too

sheebadog

farmingmad10 wrote: »

soya hulls are good to use good protein & a digestible fibre feed too

Again compare to soya and maize.
Hulls compare to hay and straw.

larrymiller

farmingmad10 wrote: »

soya hulls are good to use good protein & a digestible fibre feed too

Would you use them on there own or in a mix?

larrymiller

Anyone here use the fast finisher nuts you get in the co-op?

Farmer Pudsey

sheebadog wrote: »

Merchants bought at less than €175 unless they are thick - they make a margin.
I feed just two ingredients.... Soya for protein and maize for energy.

It's all fairly simple, if your diet is strong on protein you balance with energy and visa versa.

While merchants may sometimes appear to offer value you just price it down to the benchmarks of Soya and Maize.

To me Merchants are like commodity traders - they will sell you whats makes them the best margin.
Can't say I will never use soya hulls or gluten or the likes but I'll always price them against the benchmarks.
At the minute full fat oil seed rape is good value.

More than likely could have done without the hulls this year as had higher levels of silage in the diet. We are all only traders at the end of the day. However was looking at the journal and prices for maize in Ireland have not dipped much below 200/ton this year and that is ex port as far as I know. We all taught barley would be cheap but again it has remained at 200/ton or above. Millers bought it cheaper in august but did not commit to too much as the taught was that maize would drop below 180/ton.

Soya bean meal is at 500/ton and rapeseed meal has hit 330/ton. Is mine value I do not know but it is better priced that some nuts and mixes I see and preformance is quite good on the cattle. I fixed the price early last October and miller's agent not happy at present.

If I had maize landed at 175/ton I would not be worried about retention ans slow movement in the gut. It reminds me about a lad 10 years ago, good sheep rations were about 180/ton he was feeding whole oats at bought off the combine at 110 or 120/ton. I asked him was he not worried about it passing through in the dung. ''at 120/ton they can sh!t it away'' was his answer. I have since found out that sheep can digest whole grains.

sheebadog

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

More than likely could have done without the hulls this year as had higher levels of silage in the diet. We are all only traders at the end of the day. However was looking at the journal and prices for maize in Ireland have not dipped much below 200/ton this year and that is ex port as far as I know. We all taught barley would be cheap but again it has remained at 200/ton or above. Millers bought it cheaper in august but did not commit to too much as the taught was that maize would drop below 180/ton.

Soya bean meal is at 500/ton and rapeseed meal has hit 330/ton. Is mine value I do not know but it is better priced that some nuts and mixes I see and preformance is quite good on the cattle. I fixed the price early last October and miller's agent not happy at present.

If I had maize landed at 175/ton I would not be worried about retention ans slow movement in the gut. It reminds me about a lad 10 years ago, good sheep rations were about 180/ton he was feeding whole oats at bought off the combine at 110 or 120/ton. I asked him was he not worried about it passing through in the dung. ''at 120/ton they can sh!t it away'' was his answer. I have since found out that sheep can digest whole grains.

Traders must make a margin.

I get market prices in the face every day. Green price of maize off the combine was €124 so I think there was room for a margin.



Likewise Soya.

farmingmad10

larrymiller wrote: »

Would you use them on there own or in a mix?

in a mix. would help buffer against acidosis

larrymiller

farmingmad10 wrote: »

in a mix. would help buffer against acidosis

what would it be like mixed with rolled barley?

blue5000

Maize silage with brewers grain mixed in at ensiling along with wheat/barley/pulp mix and mins used to work well for me. Hard to get brewers now though.

jay gatsby

Rolled barley, fodder beet and a shake of soya would be fairly popular around here. A fattener fairly close to us has never used anything except barley and soya mix for a good many years. Wouldn't have the figures on it though.

Interesting to see most lads coming up with very simple mixes here. I'd hazard a guess that 3 years ago the suggestions would have been more complicated with a lot more ingredients. Trends change I guess, common thinking now seems to be for fewer ingredients and keep it simple

cattle fanatic

maize silage and high quality ration - keep it simple

farmingmad10

A couple of the older men I've talked to about finishing cattle said their was nothing like potatoes for finishing them

Farmer Pudsey

cattle fanatic wrote: »

maize silage and high quality ration - keep it simple

Maize silage commits you to finishing. A good few lads sorry that they grew it this year and it was a great crop. Biggest issue with a lot of these crops beet, maize, earno gold etc you have them in the yard and then have to buy cattle wheather it is economic or not. On top of that you may have to buy some straights to balance and run a diet feeder as well.

While a lot of these seem value the reality the profit is made by buying the animal at the right price with regard to your costs. Feed or animal efficency is not worth a f@@k if the animal is coming in at the wrong price.

farmingmad10

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Maize silage commits you to finishing. A good few lads sorry that they grew it this year and it was a great crop. Biggest issue with a lot of these crops beet, maize, earno gold etc you have them in the yard and then have to buy cattle wheather it is economic or not. On top of that you may have to buy some straights to balance and run a diet feeder as well.

While a lot of these seem value the reality the profit is made by buying the animal at the right price with regard to your costs. Feed or animal efficency is not worth a f@@k if the animal is coming in at the wrong

Not necessarily if you brought them up as calves or bred them yourself

farmingmad10

Fodder beet is cheap & good feeding. Eornagold v good also a moist feed improves intakes high protein so can save buying expensive protein rations also high in digestible fibre which is important in finishing diets. Basically you want diets with a ufl near 1.0, 25% digestible fibre in the diet & adequate levels of degradable protein usually from 12%-14%. Structural fibre important too & need about 6% in the diet. Refering to it on a dry matter basis

sheebadog

Where's Bob?
Protein is not really important to finishers, energy is.

farmingmad10

I know that but you need some

sheebadog

farmingmad10 wrote: »

I know that but you need some

Really why?
I've finished lots of bulls on ad lib maize crimp and fibre.
Best ration I've ever used. No protein.

J.O. Farmer

sheebadog wrote: »

Really why?
I've finished lots of bulls on ad lib maize crimp and fibre.
Best ration I've ever used. No protein.

There should be some protein in the maize. I assume you mean that you don't have something added for its protein content rather than its energy content.
That said I thought bulls would need protein in the diet particularly as they have to grow frames and finish in a short time.
I don't doubt that you've done it I'm just wondering how.

farmingmad10

Have rarely ever seen finishers not feed cattle without any protein. Meat is protein it can't be put on animals if the dietary protein is insufficient

sheebadog

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

There should be some protein in the maize. I assume you mean that you don't have something added for its protein content rather than its energy content.
That said I thought bulls would need protein in the diet particularly as they have to grow frames and finish in a short time.
I don't doubt that you've done it I'm just wondering how.

Last 40 days ad lib maize crimp. Have to be careful of becoming over fat

J.O. Farmer

sheebadog wrote: »

Last 40 days ad lib maize crimp. Have to be careful of becoming over fat

That's to put fat cover on. I presume they're on a higher protein diet before that then.

sheebadog

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

That's to put fat cover on. I presume they're on a higher protein diet before that then.

Oh yea, growing animals = protein.

cattle fanatic

Definitely need to watch the fibre content when feeding ration