Private Pilots Licence - Is It Really That Expensive?!

Side Show Bob

EI-DOR wrote: »

Hope you get back in them Bells soon then. I would be ecstatic flying the 206 never mind the power of a 407 :eek:!

Recently flew the 407 GX doing my LPC in the UK, I have to get back alright but its going to be in another country

logie101

..Brian.. wrote: »

So I've been looking into getting a private pilots license recently as it's something I've always thought I would enjoy. I plan to do an introductory flying lesson soon to see if it's something I actually enjoy but I have a feeling it will be.

Following a bit of research, I've hit my first stumbling block, the cost! Holy moly, is it really that expensive to get your PPL?! My local club (Waterford Aero Club) quotes their cheapest plane to cost €130 per hour and instructor fees being €50 per hour. My research indicates a requirement of a minimum 45 hours flight time logged, with at least 10 hours solo. Does this really mean, based on the above costs, a grand total of €7,600!

Surely my maths are wrong somewhere and someone is going to point out a glaring error and make all right?!

How do people afford this? Is it just rich people that get PPLs? How do ordinary joe soaps get a look in? Do I get lesson a month and spend 3 or 4 years at it? Again everything I have read indicates this is not the ideal as I will spend more time going over stuff I have forgotten from the previous lesson!

Or do people get a loan and pay that off over 3 or 4 years and try get all the lessons and exams done in 6 or 8 months or whatever?

Waterford is one of the cheaper places to learn to fly in the country. Look at the prices of some of the schools in Weston.

You should also consider a microlight license.

Preset No.3

EI-DOR wrote: »

I was gonna say why don't you get a rating on the 22 or 300 and fly it?

I'm 6'6"

I could get 1 leg into a 22! 😉

EI-DOR

Ah, the height didn't even occur to me. Hope you get back up soon!

folbotcar

As Logie says, you should consider microlights. The costs are a lot more manageable. Even ownership of a microlight is well within the range of someone with an average income.

But flying is, was and always will be expensive. There's no getting away from it.

On the other hand I don't think you should be put off by the costs particularly when flying with a club. Unless you're in a real hurry you can learn to fly over a couple of years, spreading the cost and making it less painful. That's how I learned to fly. When I started an hour's flying was half my weekly wage. I really couldn't afford it. But it didn't stop me.
It took a long time though, years in fact.

Learning to fly is enjoyable in itself. Rather than focussing on getting the PPL. Concentrate initially on going solo. Then work on the next step. At the end of the day flying is supposed to be fun.

Another point to remember that generally you rarely fly for an hour particularly in the early stages of training. 45 minutes would be common. So again the cost per lesson is less making it easier to afford.

Don't allow the cost to put you off. I never thought about the overall cost. To this day I couldn't tell you how much I spent on becoming a pilot. I don't want to know. What I do know is that enjoyed most of it and in any case I've made it all back. Not really an option for a PPL it must be said. The irony is that if I wasn't paid to fly I couldn't afford it!

Just join the club and start taking lessons. Don't think of the cost. Just go for it.

hughie1989

Is there much chance of employment with a PPL? Are any of you posters here professional pilots? Is there much work in Ireland for pilots without going to full commercial level?

Irish Steve

hughie1989 wrote: »

Is there much chance of employment with a PPL? Are any of you posters here professional pilots? Is there much work in Ireland for pilots without going to full commercial level?

There's NO work without a professional licence, it's not legal to fly for reward on a PPL, You can hour build as an instructor, or doing parachute dropping, but getting paid for it won't be part of that deal. Unfortunately, it IS that cut and dried.

Stovepipe

Once you get your PPL, you can keep current in a Permit aircraft or go and convert to microlights and fly them, to keep costs down.You'll be surprised how much cheaper it is than cl;ub flying out of airports and a whole lot more fun.

smurfjed

Is there much chance of employment with a PPL?

I'm going to show my age here, but how many of the following options still exist in ireland?

1: Banner Towing?
2: Dropping Skydivers (P'town & Clonbulogue?)
3: Aerial Photography?
4: Glider towing?
5: Fish flights?

In my era, a PPL could build hours doing any or all of the above

hughie1989

Thanks for the info. So what is the minimum ones needs in order to be able to gain any sort of employment as a pilot?

smurfjed wrote: »

I'm going to show my age here, but how many of the following options still exist in ireland?

1: Banner Towing?
2: Dropping Skydivers (P'town & Clonbulogue?)
3: Aerial Photography?
4: Glider towing?
5: Fish flights?

In my era, a PPL could build hours doing any or all of the above

I didn't even realise there was this many options. What are the chances of being able to build hours via one of these options? Is it a case of who you know, not what you know?

And once you have so many hours done, what are the options then?

I want to do the PPL so I am just looking for info!

Irish Steve

As I understand it, Aerial photography, and fish flights both now come into the category of Aerial work, which is not permissible with a PPL.

I think Dropping skydivers is OK, as long as the Pilot is not being paid for "work", and the same I think is true for glider towing.

I have to admit to not knowing about banner towing.

The one possible exception to this, and it's a grey area, is if a PPL is in the right hand seat of an aircraft that does not require multiple licensed crew, but even then, the issue of "paid" raises it's head. There are very few aircraft now that do no require 2 crew for commercial operations. At one time, the Twin Otter could be flown single crew, but I think that may have changed. When it was single crew, the airlines were also allowed to put passengers into the Right hand seat,

Long time ago now, I did a passenger flight in the RHS of one from Exeter to Gatwick, superb experience, as the captain gave me the spare headset, so I was a lot more in the loop than most would have been, We could have landed across the runway at Gatwick, as it was we came off the runway on what would for everyone else have been the entry point for departure, having flown a very non standard approach pattern compared to the normal jet arrival. Surreal!

Irish Steve

There are 2 levels of commercial licence, the CPL, which may or may not also include an instrument rating, and then for the larger aircraft, the ATPL, Airline Transport Pilot's licence.

I'm out of the loop now on the hours requirements, back in the day, it was 200 Hrs for a CPL, and 1500 for the ATPL, the exams were different, (more for the ATPL), and the ATPL didn't exist without an instrument rating, the exams could be done earlier, and that then enabled the issue of a frozen ATPL, which allowed operation commercially, but not on large aircraft.

A large aircraft could be flown as P2 on a CPL, but to command the ATPL is required, which in these days of multi crew operation, the P2 can and does become the pilot flying, it's just the command side of things that requires the ATPL.

To complicate the issue, (and I am very much not in this loop) there is now also a multi crew aircraft licence, which ONLY allows the holder to fly as crew of an aircraft that has to be operated by a multi person crew, and solo flight in something like a Cessna 182 is not allowed with this new licence.

Stovepipe

In Ireland, getting a third-level job like paradropping or banner towing requires the intensive application of the Old Pals Act. Paradropping requires a CPL, in effect, as you won't get insured as a PPL on the drop aircraft unless you are one of the older legacy pilots.Glider towing is done by those who have a PPL (G) or at the very least, have solo time on gliders as well as a PPL (A) and you simply won't get it without glider experience and the Irish gliding market is tiny.Any flying job for which you get paid requires a CPL, end of.You have to build up a good reputation and experience and often, the only way to do it is to get a CPL-A, get an instructor's rating and try and get work that way.The UK offers more chances but much more competition.

folbotcar

smurfjed wrote: »

I'm going to show my age here, but how many of the following options still exist in ireland?

1: Banner Towing?
2: Dropping Skydivers (P'town & Clonbulogue?)
3: Aerial Photography?
4: Glider towing?
5: Fish flights?

In my era, a PPL could build hours doing any or all of the above

Banner towing - CPL only and as it's only done by the NFC you'll have to work for them AND be a taildragger pilot.

Skydivers - Three operators right now, IPC in Clonbulloge, Skydive Ireland in Kilkenny and Tandem Skydive in Abbeyshrule. Of the three only Skydive Ireland have occasional opportunities for pilots. They operate six days a week. CPL only. All three can afford to be exceptionally choosy. I think there has been a rule change that allows PPLs to fly skydivers but only in what are strictly clubs. Of the three only the IPC are a club and if you think they'd let a 200 hour PPL fly their Porter then you're dreaming!

Aerial Photography - As it's aerial work you need that approval and a CPL. Having said that, I regularly see aerial shots of land in the property sections of papers. I have a funny feeling not all are taken by legitimate aerial work operators.

Glider Towing - I don't know but with only one club and a taildragger work out your chances.

Fish Flights - Does anyone even do that anymore? But aerial work, CPL only.

Oh yes Smurjed, you really are showing your age. Punchestown? I think they finished up back in the nineties!

Stovepipe

I tried to get in at IPC and got a few flights up but eventually got nowhere. What I saw a lot of was fresh CPLs coming up looking for a start, thinking they'd slide right in.Flown off grass? No.Ever operated independently without an instructor? No.Ever washed an aircraft? No.Want to give up every weekend for no pay to join the queue? No.Ever carried more than one pax? No.Ever ferried an aircraft? No.Ever done legal minor maintenance on an aircraft? No......not a hope, sorry.
Ireland is a very small market and realistically, unless you get into a club or a school as an instructor or are lucky enough to have a Cub or Jodel at hand, then building hours is very expensive.

Silvera

..Brian.. wrote: »

I don't know what I was expecting, hence beginning to research it. While I had anticipated it not being cheap, I was thinking more 2 or 3k. I certainly didn't expect €10k just to get the license!

Interesting thread! I have a vague notion of going for my Helicopter PPL at some point in the future.

OP, to put it in perspective - it cost me €3k to get my two truck licences - rigid and articulated (I passed both first time - starting from scratch - otherwise it would have cost even more). You would have to expect a PPL to cost way more than that!

..Brian..

Silvera wrote: »

Interesting thread! I have a vague notion of going for my Helicopter PPL at some point in the future.

OP, to put it in perspective - it cost me €3k to get my two truck licences - rigid and articulated (I passed both first time - starting from scratch - otherwise it would have cost even more). You would have to expect a PPL to cost way more than that!

Coincidentally I just got my Category D (bus & coach) licence last month. Also starting from scratch and also costing just shy of €3k. I think it's safe to say I severely underestimated to cost at the beginning!

folbotcar

To put it in further perspective. A truck licence allows you to earn a living as a truck driver. To get a licence that allows you to work as a pilot will set you back between 70 - 100k.

Also helicopter PPL is probably twice the cost of a fixed wing licence.