cattle, and number of movements

P_Cash

Someone told me to watch the number of movements/owners an animal has, mentioned that going back to the mart as the 4th owner cold be an issue, as in nobody might want him.
All about tracing cattle.

He's a well respected farmer so wanted to hear other thoughts, I assume thers some truth in the matter

mauser77

Any more than 4 movements you don't get the quality assured payment

P_Cash

mauser77 wrote: »

Any more than 4 movements you don't get the quality assured payment

Is that a factory pymt?

mauser77

Yep worth 12cent a kg

epfff

P_Cash wrote: »

Is that a factory pymt?

Yep 12 cent a kilo
roughly €40 a head
Also most factories don't want cattle without

P_Cash

Thanks lads,
I'm not a finisher, but equally important to me

TUBBY

Its more than 3 movements and you dont get the QA bonus (no more than 4 owners) AFAIK.

Farmer Pudsey

In the North factory's want cattle with greater than 4 movements. One of the Supermarkets want to bring it down to two. When buying if intending to sell again you want only two movements(third owner) if intending to take to finish you can have three movements(forth owner).

It is not just the QA if we follow the north example them cattle with greater than 4 movements at slaughter will also get a lower base. If losing 12c QA and maybe 10C lower base then on a 350 carcass it is 77 euro.

This is thecost at present for cattle over 30 months between lower base and loss of QA. Not sure if some factory's are not quoting like this at present

P_Cash

Hold on, so when I see 2 movements up, that means 3 previous owners?

Last sat I saw 1 movement, and number of days equalled the age of the animasl.

So 1 movement can't mean 2 previous owners.

So basically less movements the better

farmernewbie

So if I buy a weanling of a dealer and he has bought him in a mart I am on movement no.3 when I go the mart with him as a store? Will I struggle to sell?

P_Cash

Surely this isn't good for dealers.

I had a 12 month old bullock last year, but saw on the card that he was bought in Jan, and sold to me in march

simx

P_Cash wrote: »

Surely this isn't good for dealers.

I had a 12 month old bullock last year, but saw on the card that he was bought in Jan, and sold to me in march

Sold a few cattle in the autumn and I was the 6th owner, got ok money for them, didn't think it made such a difference, wasn't minding how many owners thy had the day I bought and only one signiture on back of cards so didn't know till I was in box selling

mickdw

simx wrote: »

Sold a few cattle in the autumn and I was the 6th owner, got ok money for them, didn't think it made such a difference, wasn't minding how many owners thy had the day I bought and only one signiture on back of cards so didn't know till I was in box selling

Does selling to a legit dealer count as a movement? I mean by the time the dealer sells it on to destination herd, is that seen as 2 movements or a single movement? If it's 2 movements, the small Castle dealers are finished.

simx

mickdw wrote: »

Does selling to a legit dealer count as a movement? I mean by the time the dealer sells it on to destination herd, is that seen as 2 movements or a single movement? If it's 2 movements, the small Castle dealers are finished.

If you are the second and sell to dealer he's the third and he's selling to fourth, don't think it'll finish lads or anything QA is not a thing that came out in the last month or anything

mickdw

simx wrote: »

If you are the second and sell to dealer he's the third and he's selling to fourth, don't think it'll finish lads or anything QA is not a thing that came out in the last month or anything

That being the case, it will push the cowboy dealers to the fore - The guys selling in the farmers name - cutting out a movement and keeping themselves out of the loop. I've seen a recurrence of this again lately.

Farmer Pudsey

farmernewbie wrote: »

So if I buy a weanling of a dealer and he has bought him in a mart I am on movement no.3 when I go the mart with him as a store? Will I struggle to sell?

Yes as only one movement after you

P_Cash wrote: »

Surely this isn't good for dealers.

I had a 12 month old bullock last year, but saw on the card that he was bought in Jan, and sold to me in march

No the dealer system is under pressure, must have been a movement in between at least.....next year is a different game Pudsey is on a winner........ he may have 50-10 euro to play around with(I hope)

simx wrote: »

Sold a few cattle in the autumn and I was the 6th owner, got ok money for them, didn't think it made such a difference, wasn't minding how many owners thy had the day I bought and only one signiture on back of cards so didn't know till I was in box selling

OK last year next year....:eek: HAVE BEEN WATCHING OWNER NO FOR ALL OF LAST YEAR.

mickdw wrote: »

Does selling to a legit dealer count as a movement? I mean by the time the dealer sells it on to destination herd, is that seen as 2 movements or a single movement? If it's 2 movements, the small Castle dealers are finished.

Yes if it goes into dealer herd it is a movement got caught last year am wary now 2-3 signitures on card 5-6 movements on cattle at 6c/kg 20 yo,yos /head at 12+penelty 100 euro.............. oops, not going to happen

simx wrote: »

If you are the second and sell to dealer he's the third and he's selling to fourth, don't think it'll finish lads or anything QA is not a thing that came out in the last month or anything

Yes I agre but there is a big difference between 21 euro and 100 euro

mickdw wrote: »

That being the case, it will push the cowboy dealers to the fore - The guys selling in the farmers name - cutting out a movement and keeping themselves out of the loop. I've seen a recurrence of this again lately.

Yes old tricks on the rise again......but buyer beware was on about this last year on another thread.

P_Cash

All the animals last had at leas one movement. If it said one on the board does it mean 1 previous owner and I'll be the second?

Saw no animals with 0 movements

Sam Kade

P_Cash wrote: »

All the animals last had at leas one movement. If it said one on the board does it mean 1 previous owner and I'll be the second?

Saw no animals with 0 movements

If the animal was born on your farm and you take it to the mart it shows 1 owner or 1 movement.
If you didn't sell and brought the animal home again and take it to the mart the following week it shows 2 owners or 2 movements.

I saw a yearling fr bullock in a mart before Christmas with 7 owners it didn't affect the bidding.

simx

Sam Kade wrote: »

If the animal was born on your farm and you take it to the mart it shows 1 owner or 1 movement.
If you didn't sell and brought the animal home again and take it to the mart the following week it shows 2 owners or 2 movements.

I saw a yearling fr bullock in a mart before Christmas with 7 owners it didn't affect the bidding.

Around here that's not the case brought cattle home from mart and brought back again and still 1 owner on board, if that happened I'd say it's a flaw on marts part

MfMan

Factory man told me they have to be the 4th movement, so if you're buying at a mart for killing, only 2 or less movements will suit. (You being the 3rd obviously.)

Farmer Pudsey

Sam Kade wrote: »

If the animal was born on your farm and you take it to the mart it shows 1 owner or 1 movement.
If you didn't sell and brought the animal home again and take it to the mart the following week it shows 2 owners or 2 movements.

I saw a yearling fr bullock in a mart before Christmas with 7 owners it didn't affect the bidding.

Not true if animal is not sold it is not a mvvement. Only movements fron one herd no to another count.

Big difference before and after christmass. As not lower base for overage and higher QA binus as well as other penelty's down the line. Ever 10c/kg lost is 35ish euro on a bullock and 30ish on a heifer

P_Cash

Ok.

Farmer rares bullock to 12 mths.
Sells movement 1 on board
i buy and hold for 8 mthts
sells movememt 2 on board
Next farmer buys and finishes
sells to factory. This is the 3rd movement

The factory is the 4th owner.

Farmer Pudsey

P_Cash wrote: »

Ok.

Farmer rares bullock to 12 mths.
Sells movement 1 on board
i buy and hold for 8 mthts
sells movememt 2 on board
Next farmer buys and finishes
sells to factory. This is the 3rd movement

The factory is the 4th owner.

You can have four movements before factory. Movements in and out of marts do not count provided they are not held overnight I think. However in and out of dealers do.

simx

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

You can have four movements before factory. Movements in and out of marts do not count provided they are not held overnight I think. However in and out of dealers do.

The only way I think ya can get away with movement if bought from dealer is if say he bought calves Monday and sold them Monday night, as long as he rings mart first thing tues am before they are put into dealer herd he can put them straight into new buyers herd cutting out his movement

Sam Kade

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Not true if animal is not sold it is not a mvvement. Only movements fron one herd no to another count.

It was on here that I got that information.

O2b

I was of the opinion that movements in and out of marts by the farmer (unsold) still register as a movement on the board and will still have stamp on card but doesn't count as a qa movement..so animal may have 6 movements on board but may be mentioned when selling "still qualify for qa"

P_Cash

Is this applicable for all cattle that will end up in factories. Or is it specific to certain herd Nos. . . Like need to be in a qa scheme or anything?

O2b

P_Cash wrote: »

Is this applicable for all cattle that will end up in factories. Or is it specific to certain herd Nos. . . Like need to be in a qa scheme or anything?

The finishing farmer must be quality assurred.

The cattle must be in his/her herd for 70days prior to slaughter (or in a different qa herd within that period)

Cattle that grade o- or less dont qualify

Farmer Pudsey

O2b wrote: »

I was of the opinion that movements in and out of marts by the farmer (unsold) still register as a movement on the board and will still have stamp on card but doesn't count as a qa movement..so animal may have 6 movements on board but may be mentioned when selling "still qualify for qa"

It registeres as a movement on the CMMS(agfood.ie) however it is not counted as a QA movement. While movements in and out of marts are counted thet are not counted for QA. In reality No of herds or owners is the qualifying criteria

TUBBY

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

It registeres as a movement on the CMMS(agfood.ie) however it is not counted as a QA movement. While movements in and out of marts are counted thet are not counted for QA. In reality No of herds or owners is the qualifying criteria

lads, I see 4 movements mentioned. I am sure max is 4 owners including you as last one. This is 3 movements for QA bonus

McLivestock

Yous are all wrong. Movement 1 is herd of origin to marts herd no. Movement 2 is from mart herd no to new owner or back to farm of origin. Same with moving cattle to shows ( I have a cow with 54 movements but 2 owners).