hornet to swift!

kelslat

hi all, I just want to know would it be a straight swap from a .22 hornet to a .220 swift on the licence and would I get a decent swift without paying to much when trading in the hornet?

rowa

You won't get much for the hornet as everyone wants the .223's or .204's.

kelslat

I know the hornet wouldn't have great trade in value but I cant imagine the swift would have a big sale price if everyone want .223's or .204's

Cass

kelslat wrote: »

hi all, I just want to know would it be a straight swap from a .22 hornet to a .220 swift on the licence

Depends on the Super.

and would I get a decent swift without paying to much when trading in the hornet?

Depends on the dealer.


Crappy answers i know but it's the truth. As both are centrefire, bolt action, rifle, unrestricted then possibly. however as they are different calibers it might not happen.

As for trading. The Swift is "out of favour" and as such should be picked up for easy enough money. However if a dealer wants to get top price then it's up to you to look around and even consider other options. Such as the .223, .204 even the 22-250.

rowa

What do you want the rifle for ? If fox control, the hornet is fine to 200 yards.

kelslat

yes it would be fox control. 200 yards would be its limit alright. sometimes an odd fox might hang on out to about 250 yards and wont come in much further. I wouldn't chance it past 200.

robertpatterson

Are they not both the same calibre?
Theyre both .22 are they not?

kelslat

the swift would have a lot more power than the hornet. I think about a 1000 fps more. Someone else might be able to give you a more technical answer.

tac foley

kelslat wrote: »

the swift would have a lot more power than the hornet. I think about a 1000 fps more. Someone else might be able to give you a more technical answer.

Here y'are -

.22 Hornet - 40gr - 2826fps - 710 ft lbs m/e.

.220 Swift - 40gr - 4123fps - 1577 ft lbs m/e.

Quite a difference, and perhaps in the pocket as well as on the ears. My .220 Swift, a rebarrelled 1965-built Model 70 Winchester, is still a great grouper after many thousands of shots using less frantic handloads. My cousin Joe bought it with a barrel that was burnt out in less than a thousand shots back in the early seventies from using the factory ammunition/load and its starship velocity, and fitted the then-new Shilen barrel that has been on it since.

Who really needs the .204 Ruger, when this nigh-on seventy-year old performer cartridge is still performing?

tac

meathstevie

Depends on the district. I've done it in the past and the gap between the calibers was a fair bit bigger. It all depends on the line of reasoning followed by the Super and your motivation for the change.

kelslat

Barrel wear that could be a problem alright if buying an older swift. would it make much of a difference out to 250 yards if there was slight wear in the barrel?

kelslat

meathstevie wrote: »

Depends on the district. I've done it in the past and the gap between the calibers was a fair bit bigger. It all depends on the line of reasoning followed by the Super and your motivation for the change.

The motivation for my change would be the increased range but if someone just wanted to change for the sake of changing with no other reason would this be grounds for the super not to let them?

tac foley

kelslat wrote: »

Barrel wear that could be a problem alright if buying an older swift. would it make much of a difference out to 250 yards if there was slight wear in the barrel?

When this cartridge came out in 1935, it was truly deadly on the barrel technology of the day - barrels would literally be worn out in around 300- 500 rounds......fast-shooting that 4000+ fps bullet without letting the barrel time to cool down was the reason given back then.

These days, with modern technology, the steels are far superior and wear resistant. As I pointed out, mine was rebarrelled in the early 1970's and in spite of a few thousand rounds down it, it doesn't seem to shoot much differently than it did back then. Of course, it is not altogether necessary to shoot the star-wars velocity stuff to get good results - although .22-250 is similar in performance from the factory loads. My home-loads are good enough for what I do with it, which is the long range busting of Pesky Pete the groundhog, same as the .22-250 and .25-06 that also go along in the pick-up......

I have to admit though that there is something about that HUGE case and teeny bullet that just gives me a chuckle whenever I shoot it.

tac

4200fps

kelslat wrote: »

I know the hornet wouldn't have great trade in value but I cant imagine the swift would have a big sale price if everyone want .223's or .204's

James mc bride and trapper john offerd me 1000euro for my old swift. John lambert said the stock alone was worth 600. It was the old remington 700 with bull barrel. Very hard model to get in good condition. In the end it went to Trappers as he was giving me the best trade in towards a new Tikka with mounts and bases, but on saying that I understand where your coming from, but believe or not its hard to get a dealer to take back a 223 as my friend tried mc bride and whom sells the most centre fires in Ireland, where rifle originally came from, he said he has enough of them and thats acceptable.

kelslat

thanks tac!
If I am going to buy one it would want to be a newer model of rifle as they have better steel in the barrel. Is that what your saying?

kelslat

4200fps wrote: »

James mc bride and trapper john offerd me 1000euro for my old swift. John lambert said the stock alone was worth 600. It was the old remington 700 with bull barrel. Very hard model to get in good condition. In the end it went to Trappers as he was giving me the best trade in towards a new Tikka with mounts and bases, but on saying that I understand where your coming from, but believe or not its hard to get a dealer to take back a 223 as my friend tried mc bride and whom sells the most centre fires in Ireland, where rifle originally came from, he said he has enough of them and thats acceptable.

that was great money for a swift. if they are making anything near that kind of money I will have to hold onto my hornet. I didn't think a gun dealer would refuse to take back a .223, they should sell again fairly easy unless lads are having trouble getting a licence for them.

4200fps

kelslat wrote: »

that was great money for a swift. if they are making anything near that kind of money I will have to hold onto my hornet. I didn't think a gun dealer would refuse to take back a .223, they should sell again fairly easy unless lads are having trouble getting a licence for them.

Ring a few dealers and let on you have a 223 would they buy it of you, it be no thanks or you be offered an insulting price. Great caliber no doubt but Ireland is polluted with them, if its a 223 you want your going to be spoilt for choice. The market will be in your hands, but if you go to get rid of it in future and its a a brand rifle thats not in demand you could be stuck with it for a long time seriously and you could be down alot of money. Check the muzzle of what ever you buy. Guys love leaving mods on their rifle rotting the muzzle away leaving it worthless and inaccurate

kelslat

4200fps wrote: »

Ring a few dealers and let on you have a 223 would they buy it of you, it be no thanks or you be offered an insulting price. Great caliber no doubt but Ireland is polluted with them, if its a 223 you want your going to be spoilt for choice. The market will be in your hands, but if you go to get rid of it in future and its a a brand rifle thats not in demand you could be stuck with it for a long time seriously and you could be down alot of money. Check the muzzle of what ever you buy. Guys love leaving mods on their rifle rotting the muzzle away leaving it worthless and inaccurate

its a .22 hornet that I have to trade in but I guess there not taking them either.

4200fps

kelslat wrote: »

its a .22 hornet that I have to trade in but I guess there not taking them either.

Its hard to know. They could insult you what they might offer but look you might have to take the offer as some dealers may not even do a trade in on one too easy. You might have to try a few dealers

kelslat

4200fps wrote: »

Its hard to know. They could insult you what they might offer but look you might have to take the offer as some dealers may not even do a trade in on one too easy. You might have to try a few dealers

I will try around and see what happens. If it is valued to low I will just hold onto it. Although a lad I know said to keep it and get it rebarrelled to the new .17 hornet when it [if it] comes in. it is a cz 527, he was saying all that would need to be changed is the barrel. It might be a way to give another life to cz .22 hornets if barrels can be got for them.

rowa

kelslat wrote: »

its a .22 hornet that I have to trade in but I guess there not taking them either.

I seen a few nice clean cz hornets sold for around the €200-€300 mark so a dealer will be giving you a lot less for it. You have to remember gun dealers shelves are heaving with unwanted stock at the moment, due to the economy and the hassle of dealing with the gardai etc. Hornets are yesterdays man in calibres, which is a pity as they are a nice little rifle.

4200fps

kelslat wrote: »

I will try around and see what happens. If it is valued to low I will just hold onto it. Although a lad I know said to keep it and get it rebarrelled to the new .17 hornet when it [if it] comes in. it is a cz 527, he was saying all that would need to be changed is the barrel. It might be a way to give another life to cz .22 hornets if barrels can be got for them.

.17 hornet are manufactured buy Savage firearms only as far as im aware. Rebarrel nothing, waste of time being straight out. This 17 hornet is a caliber that will never grow. Go for a .204, super flat trajectory, excellent at bucking wind which makes it a dedicated foxing rifle. Ammunition may be a wee bit pricier vs 223 but you've much greater chances of hitting a target down range under drifty weather conditions. Its your money kelslat you will be spoilt for choice. If you buy 223,204,22-250 or .220 you wont ever want to know what a hornet is I can assure you not running down what you have in any way just explaining comparison is day and night

kelslat

I have heard cz have the .17 hornet in their 527 model now the exact same as the .22 hornet. it could be a long way down the line if they ever do come to Ireland, but I believe it is being sold in north at the moment. I might just have to take the best deal I can and go for a .220, .204 or .223

tac foley

kelslat wrote: »

thanks tac! If I am going to buy one it would want to be a newer model of rifle as they have better steel in the barrel. Is that what your saying?

Since around 1965 -70.

Any pre-war Swift is probably going to be a smoothie from the breech halfway up the barrel....

Nowadays it's just another high-stepping .22 centrefire like many others, but, until the arrival of the .204 Ruger, it was the fastest kid on the block, and much mis-used as a result. A friend of mine here in UK - a reloader like most of us - couldn't get his Swift to mark the target. However, I noticed that the ground around the muzzle was discoloured. We put down a large sheet of lining paper and soon established that his bullets were exploding as they left the muzzle......up-grading from 35gr to 45gr did the biz, but he still does not try to copy the factory velocities and here in UK is it illegal to use it on any kind of deer.

tac