Was Michelle Smith/de Brun guilty?

Grandeeod

This has always fascinated me. Did she find some way to hide the drugs/enhancers in Atlanta '96. Was she doped up when she delivered Ireland's biggest medal haul at an Olympic Games? What really happened that night in Killkenny? Is she a decent barrister now?

questionmark?

If we had to give the horse drugs in Athens I'm sure we had Michelle on drugs. What I would have liked to see was the horse and her swapping sports for the day.

Banjo String

No. It was all a big pıss take.

Karl Stein

Guilty as fuck.

And to think, I almost bought the shampoo she was advertising after she 'won' those medals.

Grayditch

SHE SWAM IN A POOL OF LIES!


And drugs.

The Backwards Man

Will I get 1545 songs synced to my ipod before I pass out drunk tonight?

Sorry OP, just asking another unanswerable ceist.:)

Saganist

Watched The Armstrong Lie and realised all the top athletes do/did it.

Sid Fletcher

Her improvement was unbelievable for a 26year old when most swimmers have retired.

rwg

Kinda obvious given that she never won anything after that

Banjo String

Saganist wrote: »

Watched The Armstrong Lie and realised all the top athletes do/did it.

Was it a lie though?

Some think Buzz Aldrin was actually the first man on the moon. Others say the whole thing was faked.

secman

Grandeeod wrote: »

This has always fascinated me. Did she find some way to hide the drugs/enhancers in Atlanta '96. Was she doped up when she delivered Ireland's biggest medal haul at an Olympic Games? What really happened that night in Killkenny? Is she a decent barrister now?

Like to believe she won the medals fair and square. Still has them by the way as she passed every test taken. Conspiracy theories might suggest that the last test was deliberately tampered with to try to discredit her .
ironic if she was a barrister in the case of the prominent journalist facing trial on child sex charges, as he was her fiercest critic here.

smcgiff

She won 3 gold and one bronze medal at a single olympics. A fantastic achievement.

Yet no one talks or bigs it up. Pretty much everyone thinks she cheated.

Dozen Wicked Words

Her husband was keen on the five finger discount he thought Dunnes were offering. Not averse to a bit of shoplifting. So that might be a clue, or not.

Saganist

Banjo String wrote: »

Was it a lie though?

Some think Buzz Aldrin was actually the first man on the moon. Others say the whole thing was faked.

Pretty sure Aldrin was second and it wasn't faked.

Lou.m

FINA submitted evidence from Dr Jordi Segura, head of the IOC-accredited laboratory in Barcelona, which said she took Androstenedione, a metabolic precursor of testosterone, in the previous 10 to 12 hours before being tested. It also became known that two previous samples, taken between November 1997 and March 1998, had also shown traces of Androstenedione. The CAS upheld the ban.She was 28 at the time, and the ban effectively ended her competitive swimming career. Smith was not stripped of her Olympic medals, as only samples subsequent to her Olympic involvement tested positive

The labs say she tested positive she has always denied using performance enhancing drugs.

Her boyfriend and coach also received a ban for testing positive. During his suspension, de Bruin gave an interview in which he said: "Who says doping is unethical? Sport is by definition dishonest".

The quote had damning relevance as his wife sustained a form surge that made most purple patches look like faded lilac.

But a year after her Olympic success two local drug testers showed up at the de Bruin home in Kells. but could not get past the locked gates.

Finally, de Bruin let them in but disappeared for five minutes and handed over a urine sample which smelt of whiskey.

Forensic scientists later testified that had she digested the amount of whiskey needed to produce a sample like that she would have died, but she still owns her Olympic medals because she did not test positive in competition.

The FINA officials said the sample smelt of whiskey and when it finally reached Barcelona for testing, it was found to have "unequivocal signs of adulteration". As a result Smith was banned for four years. Smith's team argued that her sample had been tampered with but forensic evidence suggested otherwise. CAS withheld the ban and Smith retired from the sport in 1999.

Tellingly RTE's swimming expert, Gary O'Toole, an ex-swimmer who had become a physician, had more than a slight suspicion that something wasn't quite right but was told by the national broadcaster to keep such thoughts to himself when analysing Smith's victories.

As he explained to the Chicago Tribune in 2000: "The directive came down that nobody was to discuss drugs and Michelle Smith on national television. In a way for me at the time, it was great. I knew everything about drugs. Everything. I worked with them all through medical school.

It suited me not to talk about it because if you've got 1.5 million TV sets tuned in to watch someone achieve something, you don't want to be the one to burst the bubble."

She tested positive 3 times for Androstenedione, including in the famous whiskey sample, but it's not what she was prosecuted for. The tampering charge carried a higher suspension and was procedurally much easier as the test for Andro was brand new at the time. The Andro test was submitted as evidence to support the tampering charge as it gave a clear motive for that.

Basically she tested positive for Andro but the tampering charge carried a longer ban sentence so that is what they charged her with which allowed her team to spin the whole 'I'm innocent ' thing.

Hangballlouie

of course she was innocent. It is quite normal to piss pure alcohol.

Femme_Fatale

I'm very much devil's advocate about a lot of stuff (to the point that it annoys people, weirdly) but an unknown swimmer from a country without a strong swimming tradition winning a bunch of Olympic medals... I think there's fair cause for doubting her.

smcgiff

secman wrote: »

Like to believe she won the medals fair and square. Still has them by the way as she passed every test taken. Conspiracy theories might suggest that the last test was deliberately tampered with to try to discredit her .
ironic if she was a barrister in the case of the prominent journalist facing trial on child sex charges, as he was her fiercest critic here.

Don't think Armstrong tested positive either.

Grayditch

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

I'm very much devil's advocate about a lot of stuff (to the point that it annoys people, weirdly) but an unknown swimmer from a country without a strong swimming tradition winning a bunch of Olympic medals... I think there's fair cause for doubting her.

It's like... Cool Runnings doesn't even exist to you...

Son Of A Vidic

Grandeeod wrote: »

Did she find some way to hide the drugs/enhancers in Atlanta '96......

...Is she a decent barrister now?

I'm sure you'll find out how good she is when you see her in court.:pac:

Saganist

smcgiff wrote: »

Don't think Armstrong tested positive either.

He did in 1999.

clickhere

I think her medals will always be tainted,she should have rode off in to the sunset after the olympics and made a fortune in endorsements. I will always remember staying up to watch her win her medals.

For Forks Sake

Grayditch wrote: »

SHE SWAM IN A POOL OF LIES!


And drugs.

Not to mention whiskey.

And p1ss.

Sandwlch

As Lance says, if everyone is on drugs then it isnt cheating.

amber69

About as innocent as OJ.

Butterface

This reminds me of when I played underage football and I convinced myself that Lucozade Sport had performance enhancing qualities ha!

Anyway, I'd say she was guilty but it was probably the husband/coach that persuaded her to do it. Some brass neck on her to go on denying it though!

Karl Stein

Banjo String wrote: »

Others say the whole thing was faked.

Before we even consider all the hard evidence, hundreds and hundreds of people would have to have kept their mouths shut and the Soviets would have to have been in on it.

It simply doesn't stand to reason.

Orlaw3136

clickhere wrote: »

I think her medals will always be tainted,she should have rode off in to the sunset after the olympics and made a fortune in endorsements. I will always remember staying up to watch her win her medals.

No you won't...

Atlanta is four hours behind us.

You remember **** all !

Grandeeod

Orlaw3136 wrote: »

No you won't...

Atlanta is four hours behind us.

You remember **** all !

We did actually have to stay up to watch it, in fairness.

Sir Arthur Daley

Grandeeod wrote: »

What really happened that night in Killkenny?

Some say she was out on the sauce on a hen party, all we know is that it is one good town for a night out.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

questionmark? wrote: »

If we had to give the horse drugs in Athens I'm sure we had Michelle on drugs. What I would have liked to see was the horse and her swapping sports for the day.

That horse took the drugs himself.

Orlaw3136

Grandeeod wrote: »

We did actually have to stay up to watch it, in fairness.

Sorry...what time roughly are you saying you stayed up until ? Seriously, in fairness, because at midnight here it was around 7:30pm there and from memory the swimming finals were in the morning, their time.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Atlanta are 5 hours behind no? Maybe the poster was a kid at the time, I remember being let stay up to watch by my parents. The last medal she won the bronze was definitely at some time in the evening over there.

clickhere

Orlaw3136 wrote: »

No you won't...

Atlanta is four hours behind us.

You remember **** all !

Check your facts befour you post ****e,the finals were late at night heats were during the day.YOU KNOW **** ALL.:D

Orlaw3136

clickhere wrote: »

Check your facts befour you post ****e,the finals were late at night heats were during the day.YOU KNOW **** ALL.:D

Bollocks, to be frank.

And again - how late do we remember staying up to watch this swimming event ? Are we all clear that Atlanta is 4.5 hours behind us ?

Todd Gack

Orlaw3136 wrote: »

Sorry...what time roughly are you saying you stayed up until ? Seriously, in fairness, because at midnight here it was around 7:30pm there and from memory the swimming finals were in the morning, their time.

Your memory fails you so, they were on in the evening Atlanta time and in the early hours here. 3am ish.

Stavros Murphy

Could they not just fling the whole "no performance enhancers" doors wide open? I wanna see someone long-jump 20 meters and some big fcuker with hooves and eleven lungs do the 100m in 3 seconds.

Femme_Fatale

Maybe they're mixing it up with a different Olympics. For all I know, I could have watched Michelle Smith swimming during the night too. 'Tis a long time ago.

Sir Arthur Daley

Orlaw3136 wrote: »

Bollocks, to be frank.

Are we all clear that Atlanta is 4.5 hours behind us ?

Im watching Sky Atlantic its current time

Grayditch

I can't believe there's a real crime being uncovered here, while we tried to work out about the other... swimming lady... thing.

shopaholic01

I'm confused - does the timing of the event influence whether she was guilty?

Todd Gack

shopaholic01 wrote: »

I'm confused - does the timing of the event influence whether she was guilty?

Yes, she only drank whiskey in the evenings

Sir Arthur Daley

shopaholic01 wrote: »

I'm confused - does the timing of the event influence whether she was guilty?

Well there was a bar exemption on in Kilkenny that night.

maxwell smart

Banjo String wrote: »

Was it a lie though?

Some think Buzz Aldrin was actually the first man on the moon. Others say the whole thing was faked.

Hang on a minute....are you saying that Armstrong was on drugs when he landed on the moon?

shopaholic01

Todd Gack wrote: »

Yes, she only drank whiskey in the evenings

WikiHow wrote: »

Well there was a bar exemption on in Kilkenny that night.

Ah, right you are. I was wondering why peoples bedtime was important.

foggy_lad

I'll always remember the look on the american swimmers face when she finished behind smith when she won her third gold medal, the american looked seriously pissed.

I still feel that Michelle smith winning was so upsetting to the Americans on home soil that they created most of the media buzz and confusion over tests and results and could even have tampered with samples in an attempt to have smith disqualified so their own swimmer could claim what they considered was rightfully hers/theirs.

Sir Arthur Daley

foggy_lad wrote: »

the american looked seriously pissed.

They were out in Atlantic City on the sauce for a week, no wonder they were still drunk.

Rud

clickhere wrote: »

I will always remember staying up to watch her win her medals.

Me too.Great memories.I was 12 or 13 at the time and it was a pretty big deal across the country but i also remember the suspicions and the rumours flying around and how strange it all seemed.

She came to our school not long after the Olympics.I think it was like a mini-tour of schools to show off the medals and it had something to do with Shaws department stores also.I can't forget the size of her thighs and legs when we all seen her in person.They were huge like Hulk Hogans

Lirange

foggy_lad wrote: »

I'll always remember the look on the american swimmers face when she finished behind smith when she won her third gold medal, the american looked seriously pissed.

The closest American in that race finished 6th. Michelle Smith had nothing to do with that swimmer not winning the race or a medal for that matter.

foggy_lad wrote: »

I still feel that Michelle smith winning was so upsetting to the Americans on home soil that they created most of the media buzz and confusion over tests and results and could even have tampered with samples in an attempt to have smith disqualified so their own swimmer could claim what they considered was rightfully hers/theirs.

Smith did not test positive in Atlanta.

The first team to smell a rat was the Dutch swim team. The Netherlands protested to prevent Smith from even competing in Atlanta on the grounds the she only managed to swim the qualifying times after the deadline. FINA dismissed the protest and let her compete. Her previous times were not fast enough to secure participation in the Olympics. The Australian papers then got a hold of the story and ran with it. The times she swam in the lead up to Atlanta were so drastically improved from her previous bests that it was bound to arouse suspicion. Less than a year earlier she couldn't even manage to finish in the top 25 in the UK. The speculation was afoot before she even hit the water. The American media did not really address the rumours until towards the end of the meet when they started asking Smith directly about the accusations. The Australian media were the harshest on Smith implying that her cheating was a foregone conclusion.

When Smith was in her late teens she was routinely beaten by other teens in the country. None of them were world class but she kept going in the sport whereas they went on to other things. The best Irish swimmers today are leagues ahead of Smith in talent without a doubt, such as Fiona Doyle and Gráinne Murphy. Kids that had talent from the off.

grenache

foggy_lad wrote: »

I'll always remember the look on the american swimmers face when she finished behind smith when she won her third gold medal, the american looked seriously pissed.

Are you saying the American (Evans was her name I think) looked drunk?

Lirange

grenache wrote: »

Are you saying the American (Evans was her name I think) looked drunk?

Smith and Janet Evans never competed against each other in Atlanta.

Janet Evans was past her prime and didn't even qualify for the 400 final. Only the 800 where she was well beaten by her compatriot. She likely only kept going in the sport to participate in a home Olympics. The only reason she is even associated with Smith in Atlanta is because when she was asked by journalists about Smith she acknowledged there were rumours swirling on deck.