Lecturer making jokes about student

LegacyUser

My boyf is in college and had a confrontation with a lecturer of his about poor attendance. The lecturer had not given him any notice in advance of a presentation everyone in the class had to make, to tell him he would not be allowed to present if he was there.
While his attendance had been poor for 3 weeks or so due to genuine personal problems, my boyf got on with his college work in spite of this, did attend occasionally, but was never made aware that he would not be allowed to present.

He spent hours working on the project and was really proud of his work and on the day of the presentation the lecturer confronted him in front of the rest of the class and told him that he would not be presenting due to poor attendance. He felt humiliated in front of the class and asked him why he had not told him that when he had seen him in the classroom earlier that day. The lecturer was just point blank rude, and would not even look at the work he had done even after he had made a comment about how he could not know if the work was good enough for presenting that day.

Anyway, that was that, but a classmate of my boyfriend's told him that this lecturer had made a joke about my boyfriend in front of the class when my boyfriend was not there, and it was referring to the amount of calls my boyfriend had made to the director of the course, who is also a lecturer. He told the class that my boyfriend had called 30 something times and that it must be a 'new record'. My boyfriend's classmate is witness to this and he has put it on the record with the head of department.

Obviously before he takes it further he is gathering his thoughts on this. The course is utterly ruined on him now and he won't go back in. This lecturer rang him after my boyfriend alerted the head of dept, but claimed he made the comment about the missed calls as he was worried about him!

Just wondering what people think of this case and if it is merits a formal complaint.

Merkin

Why did your boyfriend call the course director 30+ times?

MissFlitworth

The lecturer shouldn't have brought up any personal details about your boyfriend in class and shouldn't have made that joke. I'd complain about that.

Your boyfriend can't just skip classes and presume that he'll be ok to submit coursework if he does. He should have alerted the lecturer of his class to the fact that he wouldn't be attending and why so that it could have been factored in, for all he knows there could have been several stages before that presentation that he missed out on (like submitting a proposal or an outline), if there was a schedule to present he might not even have been on it because the assumption would have been that he wouldn't show up.

ladygirl

No one ruined this course for your boyfriend but himself. he still has the opportunity to go back into the course but wont (his own choice again). He had ample opportunities to speak to the lecturer about his absence and chose not to. It is not acceptable to miss so much course time and think its ok to just hand in work. It has also amused me to think that he can manage to ring the head of department approx 30 times - however couldnt manage to contact the lecturer once to explain his predicament. I think your boyfriend should grow up and accept responsibility for his actions - possible speak to his lecturer about how he may repeat or continue with his coursework. Sounds like he would prefer to throw his rattler out of his pram though..

The Corinthian

On the face of it, what the lecturer discussed with the class with regard to your boyfriend calling the course director multiple times does appear to have crossed the line, but TBH, that part of your story is a bit vague, so I can't really judge on it without a fuller picture.

As to his roasting, he frankly had it coming and got off lightly. If he took time off for personal reasons, it's still his responsibility to inform the course of this. Instead he didn't, skipped a lot of classes and then seemingly waltzed back in as if nothing had happened. Let's see him trying that with a job.

Indeed, your boyfriend asked his lecturer why he had not spoken to him about it when he had seen him in the classroom earlier that day - why had your boyfriend not gone up to him and discussed his absence?

Ultimately, the roasting he got is a lot better than the alternative the lecturer could have perused - failing him on non attendance - which he also could have done. So he did your boyfriend a favour.

Redsox Rover

I think the OP boyfriend is getting a hard time here. There are a number of courses where attendance is not a requirement for a pass so without knowing the course and the rule sof the course The Corinthian you are incorrect to infer the lecturer could fail him. From the OP i am getting that her boyfriend was in contact with the course director on a number of occassions and kept them fully informed about his situation. This seems to be evident through the lecturers comment to the class. We all have events that occur in our lives that mean we may miss work, college or school. We do not know what happened during this time that led to him missing class. I am not going to speculate as to what it was or is however there are any number of reasons why someone could miss a chunk of time in college.

With regard to the lecturer making a joke of the student he has certainly crossed the line and a complaint should most certainly be made about this. At the end of the day your boyfriend is a grown man and not a child and should be treated as such. As many lecturers have said to me in my past student life, they dont care if we attend class or not as they still get paid. I know this is a flippant remark and is more designed to fuel your desire to attend than anything else.

It is never ok for another person to ridicule anyone else. I do think your boyfriend should return to the course though and try to resolve the issues with the lecturer and the college. It is in his interests to do so.

Mr. Incognito

The lecturer had not given him any notice in advance of a presentation everyone in the class had to make, to tell him he would not be allowed to present if he was there

How could the lecturer give him advance notice of a presentation if he is not in class.

I presume the 30 or so calls relate to absences.

I think what has happened is that the Lecturer has gotten annoyed over a lad that is waltzing in and out when it suits him. Education is WORK. This means attending, participating, learning, discussing, considering, questioning. These are NOT activities that can be engaged in at home.

Your boyfriend's attitude is compounded by the fact that after getting a dressing down, which in front of the class was out of order, he hasn't recommitted himself to the course but has decided to give up. Education is his own responsibility. It is up to him to learn, regardless of the class, the limitations/ personality of the lecturer.

Whatever his personal problems are they do not stop him from attending. A funeral or grief might cause a distraction for a while but not for 30 attendances.

Your boyfriend is taking up the space of someone who would actually be interested in the course. If he put half as much effort into his work as crying to the course Director you wouldn't have any issues.

The Corinthian

Redsox Rover wrote: »

The Corinthian you are incorrect to infer the lecturer could fail him.

Really? Last time I checked, minimum attendance levels are a requirement for passing most third level courses nowadays.

From the OP i am getting that her boyfriend was in contact with the course director on a number of occassions and kept them fully informed about his situation.

How are you getting this? Truth of the matter is that we don't know what these calls to the course director are and so we really cannot speculate unless the OP comes back and explains what this was about - as you say, it could have been to keep the course director up to speed on his absence, it could also have been for some ridiculous reason, we don't know.

At the end of the day your boyfriend is a grown man and not a child and should be treated as such.

TBH, his response to this incident hasn't exactly made him look terribly mature.

It is never ok for another person to ridicule anyone else.

I disagree utterly with this. It would be wonderful if we could be really nice to people who need help all the time and they'd take on our helpful advice and do what they need to do to improve their lives.

Problem is, that's not how it works, and sometimes a short sharp shock is necessary for whatever help you're giving to hit home and make an impact. All too often we end up mollycoddling people too much nowadays; we validate them rather than help them, more often than not, and then we wonder why they're still stuck in the same rut as they were before.

Redsox Rover

I have just finished my ACCA qualification and i can tell you with absolute certainty that attendance was not a requirement throughout my course. It was 14 subjects from foundation to professional.

I lost my father during a part of the course and ended up missing 1 month of lectures as a result.

I think people are making assumptions based on very little fact from the OP post and automatically jumping to the negative side.

I dont believe in mollycoddling someone. If someone has done something genuinely wrong then i am all for calling them on it and being straight however ridiculing someone in front of their classmates is not acceptable.

As i said we are all commenting on very little information and given more context my view could easily change however i do feel people are being very harsh on the OP boyfriend given the information we have.

I am wary of pulling this thread off topic. I fully understand your view The Corinthian i just have a healthy disagreement with it.

The Corinthian

Redsox Rover wrote: »

I have just finished my ACCA qualification and i can tell you with absolute certainty that attendance was not a requirement throughout my course.

And I've done a BA, PGDip and MSc and all had attendance requireents. Now, I did a PRINCE2 Practitioners course without one, but then again, I never said all third level courses.

I think people are making assumptions based on very little fact from the OP post and automatically jumping to the negative side.

And you're making assumptions based on very little fact from the OP post and automatically jumping to the positive side.

I am wary of pulling this thread off topic. I fully understand your view The Corinthian i just have a healthy disagreement with it.

Fair enough. Differing views are always healthy.

Andy-Pandy

We had a lad in my course who just showed up to his exams and would pass them, never did course work either. He was a smart lad but so very very lazy. He angered the whole year, the rest of us worked very hard to progress through the course, he seemed to swan by. This went on until 3rd year where the class rep on the student union (me) got the class together to discuss him and put pressure on the college to introduce/enforce minimum attendance levels. That was the last we saw of him. If you are to lazy to attend then you dont deserve a degree, if he had personal problems he should have informed the college, they are in my experience always understanding and helpful as long as its a genuine problem.

The Corinthian

Andy-Pandy wrote: »

If you are to lazy to attend then you dont deserve a degree

Look, I don't want to drag this thread off topic further, but I was a typical example of one of those guys who would only turn up for exams if I could get away with it and so I became very familiar with the whole minimum attendance rules that exist. I would have rather liked if a lecturer had been 'rude' to me too at some stage; it would have saved me a bit of time 20+ years ago.

But while I agree with you that attendance is important for anyone perusing a course, one must also consider that given you can pass or even get honours in some courses without attending a single lecture is also indicative of useless tenured lecturers who are frankly superfluous.

FlashD

wouldbegood wrote: »

This lecturer rang him after my boyfriend alerted the head of dept, but claimed he made the comment about the missed calls as he was worried about him!

Just wondering what people think of this case and if it is merits a formal complaint.

He can make a complaint but the course director and staff will always stick together, they see these problems year in year out and they have already explained it away. They don't have time for this messing, the quality of the course and qualifications of their attending students is their primary concern.

I think your boyfriend has burnt his bridges and needs to move on, getting into a spat with the course staff isn't good. Come end of course, these are the people who have the industry contacts and write out your references.

blatantrereg

The lecturer won't care if he quits the course or not. The only person that is going to effect much is your bf.

If he is losing marks by being prevented from presenting, then he would be best off emailing the lecturer and head of department about it (the same email). Take the angle of having put in significant work and having personal issues causing problems and concerned about losing marks. Don't attack the lecturer. If he attacks them they will just take the position that he's a bad student and there was valid reason not to accept his work. It would just make things worse. If he explains his own position it invites a sympathetic response.

It's really not that big a deal. It can become a big deal if he makes it that in his head. But there is no need to be angry or embarrassed or whatever about this.

evolving_doors

Discussing another students contact with another dept. member during lectures is not on...
Why would the lecturer refer to the AMOUNT of calls made if not only to paint him in a bad light.
What does it benefit the other students to know this. Its none of their business.
His fellow student friend would have told him if his presentation was in jeopardy, but it's obvious the lecturer never mentioned anything to the class about being refused to do the presentation.
Being halted from making his presentation at the last moment is a bit sly...he could have let him do it and had a word after ...
What the lecturer has shown is his intention to fail the student. I would imagine there is a series of warnings and notifications to go through before issuing a fail...get your bf to check the student handbook for that college/course (you could try googeling for it).

Definitely one for the students union, also even though it may new after the fact your bf should go to the welfare officer and explain their personal circumstances as to why they were absent.

Folk saying here that he 'skipped class' and ' had it coming' havn't a clue how procedures should be followed in a normal college.

freshpopcorn

It must have being a major issues for your boyfriend to have nearly missed three weeks off college. I know that the lectures where I went to college wouldn't accept this and the student union wouldn't really have backed him up because of how your boyfriend dealt with the situation.
I witnessed people at college missing colleges but they talked to the lecturer and explained why they were missing and if they were having difficulty doing assignments. These people got on with the lecturer because they understood their circumstances.
The people that acted like your boyfriend often had difficulties.

Tokyo

As somebody pointed out earlier OP, your boyfriend is a grown man.

What this means, and how it differs from school, is that it's not the lecturer's job to chase after your boyfriend and to keep him informed, it's your boyfriend's job to ensure that his lecturer/the college is informed of his absence and the reasons behind it, and his proposal to make up in some other way on any time lost, assignments not handed in, etc. If he had time to call the course director 30+ times when he found that he was at risk of failing, then he had time to make calls beforehand in order to try and find a compromise with the college.

There are an equal number of students that will just sit on their hands until the last minute and waltz into class expecting a grade to be handed to them - it's not the lecturer's job to try and differentiate between the two. I had the dubious fortune of working in the lecturers position for a few years, and without fail something like this happened every semester, followed by screams of protest if they didn't pass exams, threats of legal involvement, etc.

The lecturer didn't handle things very well by mentioning the situation in front of the class, but not knowing the circumstances of the conversation it's hard to comment further. In my experience, depending on the lecturer, discussions between teacher and students in Ireland can be quite informal, so the line may have been crossed without intent. That doesn't make it right however.

Having said that, your boyfriend seems to be throwing a bit of a strop now over the whole thing. Looking at it from the lecturer's point of view for a minute, if he can be such a man of action now, calling in friends to keep him informed, calling up the course director multiple times, looking into the possibility of making a formal complaint.... I'd be asking myself where was all of this initiative a few weeks ago when a simple call or email to explain that personal circumstances out of his control were affecting his attendance? IF he'd done that, this situation probably wouldn't exist right now...

Honestly, the vast majority of lecturers aren't out to get anyone, they just want to see an honest effort made, and to be kept in the loop if something comes up. IF I were your boyfriend, I'd drop the righteous indignation for now and threat of formal complaint, and see if he can have a meeting with both the lecturer and the course director, so that he can make his case and sort it out amicably.

clairefontaine

wouldbegood wrote: »

My boyf is in college and had a confrontation with a lecturer of his about poor attendance. The lecturer had not given him any notice in advance of a presentation everyone in the class had to make, to tell him he would not be allowed to present if he was there.
While his attendance had been poor for 3 weeks or so due to genuine personal problems, my boyf got on with his college work in spite of this, did attend occasionally, but was never made aware that he would not be allowed to present.

He spent hours working on the project and was really proud of his work and on the day of the presentation the lecturer confronted him in front of the rest of the class and told him that he would not be presenting due to poor attendance. He felt humiliated in front of the class and asked him why he had not told him that when he had seen him in the classroom earlier that day. The lecturer was just point blank rude, and would not even look at the work he had done even after he had made a comment about how he could not know if the work was good enough for presenting that day.

Anyway, that was that, but a classmate of my boyfriend's told him that this lecturer had made a joke about my boyfriend in front of the class when my boyfriend was not there, and it was referring to the amount of calls my boyfriend had made to the director of the course, who is also a lecturer. He told the class that my boyfriend had called 30 something times and that it must be a 'new record'. My boyfriend's classmate is witness to this and he has put it on the record with the head of department.

Obviously before he takes it further he is gathering his thoughts on this. The course is utterly ruined on him now and he won't go back in. This lecturer rang him after my boyfriend alerted the head of dept, but claimed he made the comment about the missed calls as he was worried about him!

Just wondering what people think of this case and if it is merits a formal complaint.

Unless the lecturer was transparent from the very beginning about an attendance policy and the consequences for repeated absences, then I am afraid the lecturer has made an error in judgement and cannot hold his students responsible for knowledge he did not make them aware of.

I don't think your boyfriend is in a position to complain about rudeness as it is incredibly rude to not show up for class and not tell your instructor why you are not there and then pop in when and if you feel like it. It's beyond rude, it is utterly obnoxious.

I have taught third level in Ireland, and I was made aware that the institution could not back up or enforce attendance policies and that all marks were based on final projects and exams. Personally, I feel this is lousy policy and a waste of tax payers money to be paying for an education people don't even have to show up for.

If I were your boyfriend, I would ask for a copy of the attendance policy that was distributed to the class at the beginning of term.

Big Bag of Chips

Sometimes in the adult world people just have to "suck it up" as they say. Your bf refusing to go back to the course, is going to achieve what, exactly? If he wants the qualification he set out to get, he's going to have to work for it. And if that means showing up and being slightly embarrassed for about 10 minutes until everyone forgets about it, then that's what he does. Nobody else in the course is going to care whether or not he drops out or improves his attendance. They are all too bothered about themselves.

I would guess thousands of people drop out of college every single year. I know in my course alone, we started with 40+ people in our class, and ended up with less than 30. And that was 1 class, of 1 course in 1 college.

Rather than going straight down the indignant complaint route, would he not consider trying to meet with and talk to the lecturer in question. He is acting a little bit like a chastised child who has been corrected by an adult, and is now in a sullk. College isn't school. Teachers will chase a student to see where they are, why they're not doing their homework, and will hold their hand to a certain degree. Lecturers won't. If your bf is having troubles or missing from class it is up to him to approach the lecturer (maturely) to discuss it. Not up to the lecturer to come find him and sort it out.

Dropping out or making a complaint about the mean lecturer, when his attendance is sketchy at best, isn't going to make much difference. Keeping his head down and getting on with the course work will. It'll all be forgotten by his classmates by the end of the week.

LegacyUser

I think the OP needs to let her BF fight his own battle.

cloudatlas

Hold on a second here normally when someone doesn't show up to tutorials they are docked a small amount of marks from their overall results.

There is nothing in school/department rules that say someone can be prevented from submitting work.

Now there is a lot of hand wringing going on here, if you're going to say that the O.P.'s boyfriend has to play by adult rules then he should be punished by adult rules and not the arbitrary fancy of a lecturer who in my opinion behaved like a bully in admonishing a student in front of his class. The correct thing would have been to ask to speak to the student after class. The lecturer can't refuse to accept submitted work that is produced before the deadline.

O.P. your boyfriend needs to make a formal complaint to the head of school as soon as possible.

Big Bag of Chips

Just to clarify, when I said "suck it up", I meant in the context of sticking with his course. I think first step in resolving this should be a word to his lecturer. Request a meeting with him. You'd be amazed how much can be achieved by actually talking to people!

castaway_lady

Surely the college has a quality assurance agreement and policy documents that state the position with attendance clearly. This is what all parties have to follow.

30+ calls....surely he sent an email to them at some stage which there would be a record of. OP if this was his job would he have taken all that time off and not expect consequences. He's being ridiculous to expect a lecturer to maintain an interest in his progress when he hasn't. The lecturer has to direct their time to the people who actually attend.

Check the policies, they will have been available to your bf at registration. When he registered there he did so agreeing to those policies. If he has a leg to stand on that will tell him. If he has an option then go back and get the job done, learn the lesson like a grown up and if he hasnt then move on and dont make the same mistake again.

LegacyUser

castaway_lady wrote: »

Surely the college has a quality assurance agreement and policy documents that state the position with attendance clearly. This is what all parties have to follow.

30+ calls....surely he sent an email to them at some stage which there would be a record of. OP if this was his job would he have taken all that time off and not expect consequences. He's being ridiculous to expect a lecturer to maintain an interest in his progress when he hasn't. The lecturer has to direct their time to the people who actually attend.

Check the policies, they will have been available to your bf at registration. When he registered there he did so agreeing to those policies. If he has a leg to stand on that will tell him. If he has an option then go back and get the job done, learn the lesson like a grown up and if he hasnt then move on and dont make the same mistake again.

Bang on. IMO the lecturer was a bit out of order - but the OP's boyfriend behaviour was really completely out of order.

I think his focus should be less on feeling hurt to the extent of dropping his course over a comment that the lecturer made, and more on what can he do to get re-engaged with his course and complete it.

I think he's very much cutting off his nose to spite his face by dropping out. He's having a strop, and isn't going to hurt anyone's future other than his own.

It really should be lesson learnt: go to lectures, and communicate properly with the lecturer if he feels that he can't attend. The calls to the course director sound really excessive - did he explain why he couldn't attend? Did he ever talk to his lecturer? Why so many calls? Did he set down in writing why he didn't feel that he could attend before his absence - as opposed to trying to justify it afterwards? Surely one email explaining his circumstances would have done the job.

LegacyUser

First off, thanks for the replies.

I need to clarify a few things though that I didn't explain properly in my first post.

My boyf had actually called the course director at the start of the third week of his poor attendance, and he had explained the root cause. Sadly the course director did not speak with this lecturer who is also the tutor over the entire year and my boyf was then in college 2 days later for the presentation. We had to drive hours to get there, the reason he was missing is because we had to move accommodation and there was nothing available in our price range where the college is. Simple as that.

Now that morning my boyf had no idea that he would not be allowed to present so he didn't feel the need to go up to the lecturer who was busy with another student at the time he saw him. And the lecturer didn't approach him to let him know not to expect to be allowed to present.

Fair enough that the lecturer decided not to let him, but he did not tell him in advance and treated him very poorly in front of the rest of the class who are by the way quite immature in ways.

There is another factor here. Another student who had not attended much since Christmas was allowed to present! Another classmate of my boyf told my boyf this on the day of the presentation. This other student was just told to go at the end of the line to present by way of punishment I guess, but he was given the opportunity. So why was my boyf treated differently? Also, the lecturer had obviously informed the entire class that my boyf would not be presenting as when my boyf arrived outside the room, he was met with a chorus of 'Too late' from some of the other students who gleefully broke the bad news to him, right before the lecturer came out himself to tell him.

My own biggest issue here is the joke to the class when my boyf was not there. The 30 odd calls arose over a period of two days to the course director and my boyf just kept trying to call him as he was really keen to speak to him about his attendance again and about not getting to present as the other student had, etc.

The lecturer also let down the course director who had obviously passed on the news to this lecturer and I'm sure he didn't expect the lecturer to announce it to the rest of the class and then say 'it's a new top record'.

I've a degree and a first class honours masters and I can't imagine any lecturer of mine would never treat a student like that. It's highly disrespectful and it's an abuse of his authority.

I'm obviously hurt over this too. We made a big sacrifice to come to where the college is and rearranged a lot of things and for this to happen is just a blow that was totally unnecessary.
I'm encouraging my boyf to make a formal complaint and get this on the record, due to the joke in front of the class in my boyf's absence. I would accept it if it happened to me.

To all those saying my boyf is at fault, would you accept this joke at your expense and just forget it?

username123

Oh my god, would you ever tell your bf to grow up and cop on.

Nothing but silly excuses and perceived slights.

If he wants to do well in his college course he needs to be attending and to have a bit of maturity.

If he wants to throw it all away over a nonsense that's his own business and good luck to him in life with an attitude like that.

If you'd any sense yourself you'd tell him to buckle up and get on with things instead of entertaining this silly strop over a joke.

Honestly, some people have little to be worrying about.

LegacyUser

ophere wrote: »

My boyf had actually called the course director at the start of the third week of his poor attendance, and he had explained the root cause. Sadly the course director did not speak with this lecturer who is also the tutor over the entire year and my boyf was then in college 2 days later for the presentation. We had to drive hours to get there, the reason he was missing is because we had to move accommodation and there was nothing available in our price range where the college is.

To all those saying my boyf is at fault, would you accept this joke at your expense and just forget it?

I'm sorry, but come on! He rang 30 times, after not bothering to turn up for two weeks, because of accommodation issues? Seriously? I thought that it must have been a sudden and tragic death in his immediate family, and even then, two weeks of nada escalating to 30 phone calls would be quite frankly be unacceptable, and a bit odd.

Yes his lecturer should have dealt with it better, but my god OP, your boyfriend us behaving like a spoilt child. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be nasty, but he really needs to cop on to himself and lose that attitude pronto. He will never survive in a paid job if he doesn't get rid of his sense of entitlement fairly bloody fast.

Merkin

Wow. Your boyfriend has an awful lot of growing up to do. He goes AWOL from his course for two whole weeks because he's moving house (that is NOT an excuse!!) then he phones up the course director with said shoddy excuse, waltzes into a preplanned presentation lecture expecting pride of place with NO explanation or apology to course TUTOR, has a strop because he wasn't included in schedule and then HOUNDS the course director thirty times in two short days with complaints? Jesus wept.

He really needs to cop on and you need to stop cheering him on from the sidelines encouraging him to complain, it's going to make him look at best ridiculous and at worst unhinged.

Tell him to go back to his course like a mature individual and stop acting like the world owes him something.

freshpopcorn

You boyfriend should have emailed/contacted all his lectures that he was going to be absent and explained the situation to them.
By doing this you show your lectures that you respect them and have interest in the course. Its also the mature thing to do.
The person that was allowed to present probably spoke to lecturer and apologised/you don't know why that person might have being absent. They might have a good excuse.
Moving house isn't a valid excuse for missing college. I know it was even stated on our attendence policy a couple of years ago.
Your boyfriend needs to grow up. He wouldn't threat a boss the was he treated his lectur.

LegacyUser

Sorry OP but a lot of this sounds like hearsay or exaggeration from other students so I would take it with a giant grain of salt. The other student who was allowed to present even though he also was absent is not your concern cus frankly you don't know what was going on there, he may well have had a genuine issue and brought it to the attention of the college. Your BF reason for not showing is weak at best, I thought it was something awful like a family Illness or death. Having accomadation issues that result in a long commute to class is no excuse, my friend currently commutes to Cork from Tipperary every day for college and when I was in college in Dublin several students came from Laois, Carlow and Kilkenny every day on the train. Hell I'm working and have a 2 hour commute each way every day.

Even if he wasn't aware he wasn't being allowed to present he still should have spoken to the lecture as he been absent so long. I'm not surprised the lecturer didn't appraoach him, it's college not secondary school, it's up to your BF to be invested in his education. He goes from one extreme (not showing up) to the other (ringing 30 times!) why on earth would he ring that many times? If the lecturer did make a comment on that in front of the class that's poor judgement on he behalf but your BF needs to cop himself on, college is meant to be something you chose to do rather then required like primary and secondary so it's up to the student to make the effort not the lecturers, they are there to provide the information and help guide not chase after people, they have their degrees already and are getting paid wither your BF shows or not.

LegacyUser

Merkin wrote: »

He really needs to cop on and you need to stop cheering him on from the sidelines encouraging him to complain, it's going to make him look at best ridiculous and at worst unhinged.

This, OP. You seem to be favouring encouraging him to sow the seeds of his self-destruction (by his own choice). He is behaving in a truly ridiculously childish manner, and you are doing him zero favours by enabling it. Do you not think lecturers & connections in employment talk? And that his name will come up - in a bad way - if there's a chance if employment wherever his class-mates are based?

You've listed your qualifications, which seem impressive, but my god you are pandering to notions that border on idiocy.

LegacyUser

And you have nothing to say about the lecturer's joke about him behind his back in front of the entire class?

Just the high horse?

I've already said that the attendance issue is one thing.

The MAIN issue here is the ridiculing of a student by a lecturer.

You mention this isn't secondary school. Damn right it's not, and you would expect lecturers to treat their students- ie their bread and butter- with adult respect.

I've never seen the likes of it at a college before. A lecturer has no right to do that to a student.

Tokyo

ophere wrote: »

My boyf had actually called the course director at the start of the third week of his poor attendance, and he had explained the root cause. Sadly the course director did not speak with this lecturer who is also the tutor over the entire year and my boyf was then in college 2 days later for the presentation. We had to drive hours to get there, the reason he was missing is because we had to move accommodation and there was nothing available in our price range where the college is. Simple as that.

Unfortunately no, and if you both feel that's a valid excuse then you have a lot of learning to do. Your boyfriend only finally got around to letting the course director know the situation somewhere in week three of not turning up to his courses at all, which sounds like he left it on the long finger till he finally got around to it. He's not the only student to have trouble with accommodation issues, and unless he was living in Galway and going to college in Dublin or Cork, he wasn't driving "hours to get there".

What he *should* have done, and what you are failing to recognise is that he should have let the lecturers in question know about his personal problems, particularly if a presentation was pending. It's not school - there's no role call in the morning, and the headmaster doesn't go round to the lecturers to tell them who's out for the day. You can't argue both sides of the coin - you're stating that your boyfriend is an adult, but you're asking that he be looked after like a child.

Now that morning my boyf had no idea that he would not be allowed to present so he didn't feel the need to go up to the lecturer who was busy with another student at the time he saw him. And the lecturer didn't approach him to let him know not to expect to be allowed to present.

Your boyfriend didn't know because up until that moment he had made zero attempts to communicate with the lecturer! If I'm to believe what you say, he told the course director and expected the news of his accommodation issues to magically proliferate throughout the faculty.

Fair enough that the lecturer decided not to let him, but he did not tell him in advance and treated him very poorly in front of the rest of the class who are by the way quite immature in ways.

See above. The lecturer isn't obligated to hunt down your boyfriend and keep him informed. Your boyfriend neglected to keep up with his college course, simple as that. Yes, the lecturer could have dealt with it better, but honestly, I've been the lecturer in this situation, and if a student wandered in after a non appearance for a month, and no explanation as to why, looking to give his presentation without so much as a question, I think my face would have WTF written all over it too.

There is another factor here. Another student who had not attended much since Christmas was allowed to present! Another classmate of my boyf told my boyf this on the day of the presentation. This other student was just told to go at the end of the line to present by way of punishment I guess, but he was given the opportunity. So why was my boyf treated differently?

Perhaps because he contacted the lecturer and gave a valid reason for his absence??? You have no idea why this student may have been absent, and are trying to use him to validate your boyfriend's lack of action in keeping his lecturer informed.

Also, the lecturer had obviously informed the entire class that my boyf would not be presenting as when my boyf arrived outside the room, he was met with a chorus of 'Too late' from some of the other students who gleefully broke the bad news to him, right before the lecturer came out himself to tell him.

Again, you are speculating. Another possible explanation could be that the lecturer could have made umpteen warnings in the weeks leading up to the presentation stating that students failing to meet attendance would not be allowed to present. It's something I've heard plenty of times in my student days, and sounds a lot more plausible to me.

My own biggest issue here is the joke to the class when my boyf was not there. The 30 odd calls arose over a period of two days to the course director and my boyf just kept trying to call him as he was really keen to speak to him about his attendance again and about not getting to present as the other student had, etc.

The lecturer also let down the course director who had obviously passed on the news to this lecturer and I'm sure he didn't expect the lecturer to announce it to the rest of the class and then say 'it's a new top record'.

Actually the bigger issue here is that your boyfriend, who hadn't time to let his lecturer know that he was going to be absent for three weeks but would like to make up the work in another way, suddenly had time to make 30 phone calls to the director as soon as he felt that his presentation, and therefore his grades, were at risk. I'm not saying that the lecturer couldn't have handled it better, and I get that you are miffed, but honestly you can't see the woods for the trees here. Your boyfriend dropped the ball completely on his presentation, and got made fun of for doing so - and that's if, IF it happened the way the person telling the story said it did. You can't say that for sure, because you weren't there.

I've a degree and a first class honours masters and I can't imagine any lecturer of mine would never treat a student like that. It's highly disrespectful and it's an abuse of his authority.

I suspect that you have a degree and a first class honours masters because you didn't take three weeks off at a time without making provision for it.

I'm obviously hurt over this too. We made a big sacrifice to come to where the college is and rearranged a lot of things and for this to happen is just a blow that was totally unnecessary.
I'm encouraging my boyf to make a formal complaint and get this on the record, due to the joke in front of the class in my boyf's absence. I would accept it if it happened to me.

No, you're not hurt. You're indignant, with a how-dare-he attitude over the whole situation. And as I said earlier, you can't see the wood for the trees. I don't doubt that you made a sacrifice for your boyfriend to go to college, but so have a lot of people, and quite frankly, that's not the college's problem. Their job is to teach you the materials required to get your degree, not to pat you on the back for moving across the country, or whatever sacrifices you feel that you've made.

To all those saying my boyf is at fault, would you accept this joke at your expense and just forget it?

Honestly, if' I'd dropped the ball the way your boyfriend did, I would. I've had jokes made at my expense before, I'm sure I will again.

Now I know you are going to read this and think that we are being unusually harsh or cruel OP, but I read some very wise words in these forums once before, and they were - some people posting here need a hug, others need a kick up the arse, and if you're here long enough, you'll know how to tell the difference between the two.

Your boyfriend dropped the ball on his education, not even in a major way, and you're looking for a scapegoat rather than dealing with the real problem here - for your boyfriend to get his priorities straight, and at least keep people in the loop if he can't meet his responsibilities. That's the saddest part of all this. If he'd made a phone call three weeks ago, he wouldn't be in this situation right now. And even worse, rather than jumping up and down on the internet, if he actually gave the director, and the lecturer a call, and asked if he could sit down and have a meeting with them, it could more than likely be resolved in a single conversation. Colleges are businesses, and they don't want to fail students any more than students want to walk out the door as failures.

I imagine you don't like what you've just read OP, but I truly, TRULY hope you take something from it. What happened with your boyfriend isn't actually a big deal in the greater scheme of things. But if you both continue down the path of righteous indignation, rather than dealing with it, someday a bigger problem is going to come along in life, that will have a lot more repercussions, and you won't be equipped to deal with it.

Good luck.

LegacyUser

It's his decision whether he wants to face this lecturer, and course director, and class, again.

On another note the attendance issue is really very strange.
My boyf had turned up on several occasions and repeatedly, no lecturer would turn up. Particularly this lecturer in question. On the day of the presentation when the lecturer pulled my boyf up on attendance, he told the lecturer that he had gone in several days only for nobody to be there.
The lecturer replied, 'it is your timetable, not ours'.
So what this lecturer is doing, is letting the students go at their work, and then he comes in when he feels like it to give judgement on the work.

That doesn't sound right when the lecturer's name is on that timetable for those set hours.
Another lecturer is doing the same also- but they give less lecturers and teach a lesser related module.

Also another facet to this is that one of the key skills they are supposed to be learning is not actually being taught in any way, and this lecturer had previously said to my boyf to watch tutorials on youtube.

I think overall there is too much free run and latitude being afforded to this lecturer and that possibly this has contributed to their egotistical run.

Other posters here, including one lecturer, has said that students cannot be outlawed due to poor attendance, with one poster saying a student can't be forced not to submit prepared work.

That sounds about right to me. If you get on with your coursework, despite poor attendance, you should not be penalised and treated in this manner.

Mike, I understand your pov in a way. But I completely disagree with your advice to let the joke go over his head. It was unprofessional and demeaning and lecturers do not normally go on like this. Obviously there are lecturers of various intelligence.

implausible

wouldbegood wrote: »

Obviously before he takes it further he is gathering his thoughts on this. The course is utterly ruined on him now and he won't go back in. This lecturer rang him after my boyfriend alerted the head of dept, but claimed he made the comment about the missed calls as he was worried about him!

Just wondering what people think of this case and if it is merits a formal complaint.

Now, I don't know the structure of this course, but it seems patently ridiculous to me to throw the toys out of the pram over one presentation in one module of a course. Is it a pass/fail situation?

The way I see it your boyf has two choices - get thick, make a complaint, don't return to the course and waste the time and effort already put into it OR accept that he didn't approach the issue in the right way, ask to redo the presentation formally (mentioning the communication issues which led to the lecturer thinking he wasn't bothered) and sucking it up as a lesson learned.

LegacyUser

wouldbegood wrote: »

It's his decision whether he wants to face this lecturer, and course director, and class, again.

On another note the attendance issue is really very strange.
My boyf had turned up on several occasions and repeatedly, no lecturer would turn up. Particularly this lecturer in question. On the day of the presentation when the lecturer pulled my boyf up on attendance, he told the lecturer that he had gone in several days only for nobody to be there.
The lecturer replied, 'it is your timetable, not ours'.
So what this lecturer is doing, is letting the students go at their work, and then he comes in when he feels like it to give judgement on the work.

That doesn't sound right when the lecturer's name is on that timetable for those set hours.
Another lecturer is doing the same also- but they give less lecturers and teach a lesser related module.

Also another facet to this is that one of the key skills they are supposed to be learning is not actually being taught in any way, and this lecturer had previously said to my boyf to watch tutorials on youtube.

I think overall there is too much free run and latitude being afforded to this lecturer and that possibly this has contributed to their egotistical run.

Other posters here, including one lecturer, has said that students cannot be outlawed due to poor attendance, with one poster saying a student can't be forced not to submit prepared work.

That sounds about right to me. If you get on with your coursework, despite poor attendance, you should not be penalised and treated in this manner.

Mike, I understand your pov in a way. But I completely disagree with your advice to let the joke go over his head. It was unprofessional and demeaning and lecturers do not normally go on like this. Obviously there are lecturers of various intelligence.

OP for the love of god stop digging! If you and your BF thinks the course is so badly run why does you/he care if he passes or fails? I've three degrees from three different colleges and all three are very clear that they fail students for not attending classes and refuse to let students present work if they hadn't shown up for the lectures. Accumulated missed days of 3 weeks over a year would be a lot, 3 weeks on the trot without a doctors note or similar is taking the piss. If you don't need to attend lectures why bother going at all just do the whole thing by mail. I've seen students ripped into in front of classes far worse then what your describing. Both you and your Bf need to take a step back for a bit and come back with clearer more rational heads on.

Stavro Mueller

OP, I suggest you butt out and let your boyfriend fight his own battles. It's time he grew up and learned how to be responsible for his own actions. You can bleat on as much as you want about what the lecturer said in the class but I doubt very much that that is enough to hang the entire case on. There is absolutely NO excuse for why your boyfriend didn't have the intelligence or the courtesy to pick up the phone and ring the department. You can't just drop off the face of the earth for 3 weeks and expect life to continue as normal. If he pulled that stunt in a job there'd be a P45 in the post. What you're undertaking is a risky strategy. You're hanging your hopes on technicalities and alleged comments but ignoring the elephant in the room. Those missing 3 weeks.

I suggest you stop whipping up your boyfriend's anger (and your own) and allow him to accept responsibility for the bone-headed mistake he made. You are not going to make any friends by going down the legal/quasi legal route here. Perhaps trying the "I screwed up" route will work better in the long run.

freshpopcorn

wouldbegood wrote: »

It's his decision whether he wants to face this lecturer, and course director, and class, again.

On another note the attendance issue is really very strange.
My boyf had turned up on several occasions and repeatedly, no lecturer would turn up. Particularly this lecturer in question. On the day of the presentation when the lecturer pulled my boyf up on attendance, he told the lecturer that he had gone in several days only for nobody to be there.
The lecturer replied, 'it is your timetable, not ours'.
So what this lecturer is doing, is letting the students go at their work, and then he comes in when he feels like it to give judgement on the work.

That doesn't sound right when the lecturer's name is on that timetable for those set hours.
Another lecturer is doing the same also- but they give less lecturers and teach a lesser related module.

Also another facet to this is that one of the key skills they are supposed to be learning is not actually being taught in any way, and this lecturer had previously said to my boyf to watch tutorials on youtube.

I think overall there is too much free run and latitude being afforded to this lecturer and that possibly this has contributed to their egotistical run.

Other posters here, including one lecturer, has said that students cannot be outlawed due to poor attendance, with one poster saying a student can't be forced not to submit prepared work.

That sounds about right to me. If you get on with your coursework, despite poor attendance, you should not be penalised and treated in this manner.

Mike, I understand your pov in a way. But I completely disagree with your advice to let the joke go over his head. It was unprofessional and demeaning and lecturers do not normally go on like this. Obviously there are lecturers of various intelligence.

Most of the posters here think your boyfriend is in the WRONG. If he makes a big deal out this it could effect his future with the college if work placement s are involved/ in the future for getting references. Etc
I often post here on personal issues and one thing I rarely is say GROW A PAIR. This is what your boyfriend needs to do, he wasnt even missing for a valid reason/acted appalingy to his lectures when he was absent.

Turtwig

Mistakes were made on both sides. The lecturers conduct was completely inappropriate. It shouldn't matter whether your boyfriend was a deadbeat dropout or not. A lecturer never has any idea what the personal circumstances are of any student. Sadly there is a overriding culture that academia is above this. Everything is the individuals responsibility. Can anyone explain why this is so? Without saying stuff like this is the way life is.Or that's the system? Well as it happens it's not the system. Lecturers often invent rules for their modules as they please as a module progresses but technically they cannot. Generally this is against the rules. Unless he stated in the rules at the start of the class that he would ban people from presenting then he is most likely completely in the wrong. Depends on the institution obviously, but in most places the actual rules don't ever allow for such conduct. Your boyfriend should have been allowed present.

The lecturers comments and conduct was completely wrong. Bear in mind that there may be an element of Chinese whispers here. He has no real right to make such comments about personal matters.

OP, you need to decide whether this conduct is overshadowed by your boyfriend's failings here. Obviously, regardless of the nature of his conduct, he has every right to complain but ask yourself whether it is entirely fair that he gets away unpunished for his own misgivings? I understand accommodation can be a serious issue for some. I also understand people can procrastinate on serious issues for the most innocent of reasons, but the vibe I got from your explanation was that your boyfriend was naive and lazy. If I'm wrong I apologise and as I say he can pursue a complaint regardless of his culpability. You just need to ask yourself very seriously over whether that is the right thing to do?

Personally, based on what you have written, I think it isn't. Your boyfriend and lecturer should enter into dialogue and work to ensure this kind of rift never happens again.

LegacyUser

wouldbegood wrote: »

The MAIN issue here is the ridiculing of a student by a lecturer.

Actually, it's not. At all. The MAIN issue is that he couldn't be arsed turning up to lectures, didn't have the common courtesy, manners, common sense or commitment to his course to contact his lecturer, and then bombed his lecturer's boss with an insane number of calls.

I'm sorry OP, but your boyfriend is behaving like a prize idiot, and is trying to deflect the focus from his crappy behaviour onto a small lapse by his lecturer. He really needs to be told to cop on to himself, and you are not helping matters.

I cannot believe that he's throwing his toys out of the pram in the first place re a remark being made re his very weird behaviour over attendance - but to take that to another level re dropping the course is so pig-headed and (self diagnosed) 'victim' carry-on that I'm shocked at his childishness. I wouldn't expect that from anyone past 4th class tbh.

You know what, maybe it would benefit him as a person to drop out of his course, and try to get a minimum wage job, and see where his spoilt childish attitude gets him. It might be the short sharp shock that he needs to realise that he's not the centre of the universe, and that his crappy attitude has consequences.

rock22

The issue you raise is the appalling behavior of the lecturer.

Your boyfriend should consider making a written complaint to the College . However he will need prove of the comments the lecturer made to the class.

The lecturer should not be in a position of authority is you have honestly reported his behavior.

Meauldsegosha

OP I have two words for your boyfriend - personal responsibility. More and more people in today's society fail to take responsibility for their actions and choices. He was wrong not to contact the college when he was absent. He was wrong not to approach the lecturer the day of the presentation to apologise. Yes I know the lecturer was talking to someone else when your boyfriend arrived so your boyfriend should have stood to the side and waited for him to be free.

Your latest post complaining about lecturers not turning up is comical. I said things like that when I was 13 in secondary school and a teacher was out sick.

As for things the lecturer is supposed to have said about your boyfriend, the fact is you it's all hearsay. You don't know what was said and when people gossip they can sometimes exaggerate.

I know there are ways of getting your fees back it transferred if you move during the year. Is that what your boyfriend is trying to do but all the blame on the lecturer.

LegacyUser

Meauldsegosha wrote: »

OP I have two words for your boyfriend - personal responsibility. More and more people in today's society fail to take responsibility for their actions and choices. He was wrong not to contact the college when he was absent. He was wrong not to approach the lecturer the day of the presentation to apologise. Yes I know the lecturer was talking to someone else when your boyfriend arrived so your boyfriend should have stood to the side and waited for him to be free.

Your latest post complaining about lecturers not turning up is comical. I said things like that when I was 13 in secondary school and a teacher was out sick.

As for things the lecturer is supposed to have said about your boyfriend, the fact is you it's all hearsay. You don't know what was said and when people gossip they can sometimes exaggerate.

I know there are ways of getting your fees back it transferred if you move during the year. Is that what your boyfriend is trying to do but all the blame on the lecturer.

It's not hearsay. How else could another classmate have known he made that number of calld? Answer that. The classmate has also come forward and put it on the record.

The fees have nothing to do with this.

LegacyUser

wouldbegood wrote: »

It's not hearsay. How else could another classmate have known he made that number of calld? Answer that. The classmate has also come forward and put it on the record.

The fees have nothing to do with this.

'Answer that'?!?? Of COURSE it is hearsay! You weren't there, and have mounted yourself on your high horse on the basis of what your boyfriend's friend said what the lecturer said. Give me a break!

MouseTail

I think your boyfriend is simply looking for an excuse to drop out. He is not committed to the course, his unjustified absences show that.

Stavro Mueller

So have you a Plan B if your boyfriend fails the course? You've got your qualifications so you're alright. How about him?

Meauldsegosha

Heresy is unverified information heard or received from a third person. And my guess is that if it came to it this other person wouldn't be willing to go on the record.

What I find interesting is that in all your post you don't acknowledge that your boyfriend is partly to blame here.

LegacyUser

wouldbegood wrote: »

It's not hearsay. How else could another classmate have known he made that number of calld? Answer that. The classmate has also come forward and put it on the record.

The fees have nothing to do with this.

Here are my thoughts (in bulk) after reading this thread ....

1./ Maybe I am getting old ... but I find the sense of entitlement really overdeveloped with young ones these days ...
Why don't they get you to pay the fees and receive the certification on registration day rather than forcing people to go to classes these days ???

2./ Your boyfriend is a person and should be man enough to fight his own battles without you interfering ...

3./ Accommodation issues are not a good enough excuse for missing out on classes ....

4./ Lecturers, whether they are likeable or not, have something to bring to the class. One should be adult enough when in college to make abstraction of personalities, take what they need (knowledge) and move on to the next step in life.

5./ In the whole big picture, this is a very small problem. Wait until you grow up a little, you might (and wish you don't have to) have to contend with bigger problems than this.

6./ Ringing someone 30 times is not acceptable - this is bordering harassment.

7./ If your bf formulates an official complaint, he is going to have the whole college alerted to the fact that he is a trouble maker, therefore potentially limiting his possibilities within and outside of college (people talk ; Ireland is a small country).

8./ If your bf gives up on this course, he's throwing away the time he had invested (if he has that is) in the course so far.

9./ Ringing 2 weeks after starting his self-decided sabbatical is not good enough.

10./ The lecturer might have handled this poorly but you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

11./ It is hearsay ... your b/f wasn't there ... you might trust the originator of the information but it was neither you or your b/f who heard him saying it - for all you know, the originator might be stirring ....

=> Time to eat humble pie. Your b/f should just man up, assume his responsibilities, apologise to both lecturer and course director, formulate good resolutions, stick to them ... and you should stay out of it (and stop your high horse attitude when people word their opinion on a discussion forum - all people can't be wrong .... ).

username123

Let him drop out. He will learn the life lesson pdq after a few months on the dole with no prospects.

Stavro Mueller

Even if the college lecturer is found to have behaved inappropriately when it comes to the comments he made, what do you think is going to happen beyond him receiving a warning and a slap on the wrists? It isn't going to explain those missing three weeks. No amount of finger pointing and blaming others can take away from the core issue here. Your boyfriend was an idiot and he handled this just as badly as the lecturer did. What was the lecturer supposed to think when he disappeared off the face of the earth for 3 weeks? He's not telepathic.

As most people here are telling you, get down off that high horse. If your boyfriend is in a position to pull this situation out of the fire by putting his hands up and saying he made a bad judgement call, then he should do this. As I've already asked here, if he fails the course does he have a Plan B? Don't let anger and indignation blind you to these realities.

allym

Just to say, in some colleges it is absolutely possible for a lecturer to refuse to allow a student to submit based on their attendance. It depends on the college in question.

In my college there's a general rule that if you miss more than a quarter of your classes in any term then the lecturer can decided that your attendance wasn't enough to meet the course aims and stop you from submitting or sitting exams.
Of course it depends on each individual department if it's enforced or not, but I know in mine it certainly is.