Am I a bad teacher??

spurious

In grind businesses, the teachers are there to teach the students how to pass the exam. This is not the case in schools.
Teachers in schools have to do much more.

implausible

The Red Shoes wrote: »

The fact that you're concerned about not being good enough and want to improve speaks volumes. I think that a lot of teachers have that niggling fear. I can't post the link here but google "The Hard Part" by Peter Greene. It's an article I think you might enjoy! Best of luck this year & thanks for raising this topic!

Great article! Here's the link: http://curmudgucation.blogspot.ie/2013/12/the-hard-part.html

LoveChanel

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

I think you came on a bit strong there. You obviously have issues with other staff members and you cant give career advice based on a few texts!-career break?!! How old are you?? . You reference an English teacher. Do u have kids?

I have 30 honours students so you could be talking 3-5 hours of correcting per week for one group. I tend to collect one group per week. To be honest I prefer my time planning than correcting and feel its a bit more beneficial. ie you find great notes or write great notes.

Grind schools are fine if thats what you want but their teachers dont have to be a class tutor/serve on a literacy committee/ do s and s. etc. I have given grinds to kids in grinds schools-the standard is good but its more third level like-kids dont get that much special attention. People feel they get better because they pay more and lets face it you dont have any troublesome pupils.

However I do think I could do more -we all probably could. I probably correct the fifth and sixth years twice a month-not once . Religion aint an exam subject but I still have to prepare and that takes time. I don't plan to comment anymore because of the above contribution. Though I appreciate the concern.
Thanks to all

I am not a teacher and would have no desire to become one. I'm studying medicine. It's a shame teachers are so over worked in public schools. The department for education should hire more teachers to lessen the workload. This is obviously the reason for poor teaching quality.
I truly believe the only way a student can excel in a subject is by getting work corrected.
Could you not create your lesson plans for the year during the summer holidays? This would save considerable time during your working week.
The lower standard of teaching and disruptive students is the reason I chose to move to a private school.
Best of luck with your teaching.

seavill

LoveChanel wrote: »

I am not a teacher and would have no desire to become one. I'm studying medicine. It's a shame teachers are so over worked in public schools. The department for education should hire more teachers to lessen the workload. This is obviously the reason for poor teaching quality.
I truly believe the only way a student can excel in a subject is by getting work corrected.
Could you not create your lesson plans for the year during the summer holidays? This would save considerable time during your working week.
The lower standard of teaching and disruptive students is the reason I chose to move to a private school.
Best of luck with your teaching.

That didn't take long....

When you understand a little more come back then and try to lecture us on how to teach properly. Or when you finish college let me know where you are working as a doctor and I'll pop in and tell you how to do your job, because like I have been to doctors before and have been in hospital so I know what I'm talking about:rolleyes:

Creating lesson plans over the summer is a great idea until the middle of week 1 when 2/3 of your class is off on a science trip and then the next day there is a speaker in taking your entire class. Or even more simple sure plan to cover X in the next lesson but wait the fire alarm goes off half way through so there goes your next 8 months of lesson plans out the window as everything is now out of sync.

Personally I have a little issue with the word "teaching" and grind schools. Feeding people notes after notes after notes doesn't fully fit my definition of teaching. No offence to anyone teaching in a private school but compared to standard teaching and education there is no comparison. I have taught in a grind school before I get jumped on.

Also it's amazing how gullible people with money can be, just because you are paying for something does not mean you are getting the best. I was offered the job in the grind school before I even finished college. And again the following September. No teaching experience (except TP - doesn't really count) but job offer on the table - does it mean that because I was wanted in a grind school that I was a great teacher, no, it means they couldn't find anyone for the job. Hardly a ringing endorsement for the standard in that particular school.

bearhugs

+1 Seavill. Just because you have gone through school does not mean that you know the first thing about teaching.

LoveChanel

Just because I'm not a secondary /primary school teacher doesn't mean that I know nothing about teaching. I am a qualified BHSI instructor and know all about lesson plans.

seavill

LoveChanel wrote: »

Just because I'm not a secondary /primary school teacher doesn't mean that I know nothing about teaching. I am a qualified BHSI instructor and know all about lesson plans.

Clearly not if you think that a teacher can plan all their lesson plans over the summer, surely you can see this is illogical. Take my examples of disruptions from the previous post that throw every future plan out the window, what about the kids you have never taught before and have to first gauge their ability before knowing at what pace and standard they are at. Never mind the fact that you won't have the vast majority of your class lists until the day you go back (if you are lucky) thus not knowing how many kids with SEN you have etc. etc. etc.
Also taking into account the thread here over the last week where teachers either only got their timetables this week or are still waiting, how can you plan if you don't know who or what you are going to be teaching?

You may know how you "instruct" your courses but you certainly don't have the knowledge of the education system to be lecturing people on how to do their jobs.

LoveChanel

seavill wrote: »

Clearly not if you think that a teacher can plan all their lesson plans over the summer, surely you can see this is illogical. Take my examples of disruptions from the previous post that throw every future plan out the window, what about the kids you have never taught before and have to first gauge their ability before knowing at what pace and standard they are at. Never mind the fact that you won't have the vast majority of your class lists until the day you go back (if you are lucky) thus not knowing how many kids with SEN you have etc. etc. etc.
Also taking into account the thread here over the last week where teachers either only got their timetables this week or are still waiting, how can you plan if you don't know who or what you are going to be teaching?

You may know how you "instruct" your courses but you certainly don't have the knowledge of the education system to be lecturing people on how to do their jobs.

Well the educational system in this country is very flawed..
I can't be bothered responding to this mindless rubbish. All I can say is thank god for the excellent teachers I had and I feel for the students in public school.

seavill

LoveChanel wrote: »

Well the educational system in this country is very flawed..
I can't be bothered responding to this mindless rubbish. All I can say is thank god for the excellent teachers I had and I feel for the students in public school.

Agreed fully that the educational system is completely flawed.

Would you mind explaining what you feel is mindless rubbish? I gave you specific examples which make it impossible to plan lesson plans for the year during the summer which you didn't respond to. I gave you an example of a grind school offering me a job while still in college showing that it's not necessarily the best teachers that work in grind schools and you didn't respond to that either. You are just making sweeping comments without actually engaging in any discussion

I think broad sweeping statements like highlighted above really have no place in a discussion like this. There are good and bad teachers in every school and school type regardless of how much you pay.

Why do you feel for students in public schools? Do you think that grind teachers sit down and do all their lesson plans for the year over the summer?

bearhugs

I was just going by what you said about planning during the summer. Very impractical and I would go so far as to say a waste of time. What's flawed here isn't so much the public school system as your perception of it.

Featherbubble

Did you really just compare being a horse riding instructor to teaching in a secondary school???

Dave0301

LoveChanel wrote: »

Well the educational system in this country is very flawed..
I can't be bothered responding to this mindless rubbish. All I can say is thank god for the excellent teachers I had and I feel for the students in public school.

With all due respect, you are using your very limited experience with an education system to generalise. Of course you are entitled to an opinion, just don't make the mistake in thinking that it is an informed opinion.

Also, the professional opinion of a person who is trained to specialise and teach a certain subject, and informed of educational pedagogy is not mindless rubbish, quite the opposite actually.

LoveChanel

Dave0301 wrote: »

With all due respect, you are using your very limited experience with an education system to generalise. Of course you are entitled to an opinion, just don't make the mistake in thinking that it is an informed opinion.

Also, the professional opinion of a person who is trained to specialise and teach a certain subject, and informed of educational pedagogy is not mindless rubbish, quite the opposite actually.

Sure the majoriety of teachers at secondary school level have done arts, hardly specialised training.. Most of the maths teachers in this country do not even have a maths degree. Surely there ability to teach at a high standard is questionable.

MrJones1973

I think Lovechannel is playing out their personal issues here. Projecting. We all like to justify things and Lovemyself obviously had issues with his/her school . Projected . Cheaper than therapy. We could all use some therapy so dont get upset over that. Its just the arrogant attitude that got up my nose. I think I would advise all to leave him/her be. Time will iron out the arrogance and Im sure if he works pretty hard he can send his offspring to an over priced school funded in large part by the tax payer. Where the middle class can pretend they are getting a better education- when in reality you stick the sons and daughters of professionals together you going get great results.

As for the correcting-opinions remain divided. Despite writing tons of comments-a lot of students ignored them and still handed up rushed work !

LoveChanel

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

I think Lovechannel is playing out their personal issues here. Projecting. We all like to justify things and Lovemyself obviously had issues with his/her school . Projected . Cheaper than therapy. We could all use some therapy so dont get upset over that. Its just the arrogant attitude that got up my nose. I think I would advise all to leave him/her be. Time will iron out the arrogance and Im sure if he works pretty hard he can send his offspring to an over priced school funded in large part by the tax payer. Where the middle class can pretend they are getting a better education- when in reality you stick the sons and daughters of professionals together you going get great results.

As for the correcting-opinions remain divided. Despite writing tons of comments-a lot of students ignored them and still handed up rushed work !

I'm sorry but my username is lovechanel

bearhugs

I actually think LoveChanel is a troll after their last post. Couldn't be serious. I agree, not going to bother interacting anymore!

MrJones1973

LoveChanel wrote: »

Sure the majoriety of teachers at secondary school level have done arts, hardly specialised training.. Most of the maths teachers in this country do not even have a maths degree. Surely there ability to teach at a high standard is questionable.

Where did you drag up that statistic-any evidence? About the Maths teachers? I wont hold my breath...

MrJones1973

LoveChanel wrote: »

I'm sorry but my username is lovechanel

Can you not see Im taking the piss-lovethyself. Good luck with the therapy. Im out.

LoveChanel

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Where did you drag up that statistic-any evidence? About the Maths teachers? I wont hold my breath...

http://www4.dcu.ie/sites/default/files/smec/pdfs/Out-of-field_mathematics_teachers.pdf

http://m.independent.ie/life/family/learning/course-to-tackle-shortage-of-maths-teachers-26857502.html

Ní Ríordáin and Hannigan (2009) conducted a study with 324 post-primary mathematics teachers and found the following:
• 48% of the teachers did not have a mathematics teaching qualification.
• Of the 156 (48%) of teachers without a mathematics teaching qualification, 35% had a BSc. primary degree (without a significant mathematics component), 34% had a B. Commerce /Business primary degree (without a significant mathematics component) and 27% had a concurrent teacher education degree without mathematics (e.g. science teachers graduating from the University of Limerick).

Dave0301

LoveChanel wrote: »

Sure the majoriety of teachers at secondary school level have done arts, hardly specialised training.. Most of the maths teachers in this country do not even have a maths degree. Surely there ability to teach at a high standard is questionable.

Judging by that response your English grinds teacher and all that assiduous marking was well heeded.

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

I think Lovechannel is playing out their personal issues here. Projecting. We all like to justify things and Lovemyself obviously had issues with his/her school . Projected . Cheaper than therapy. We could all use some therapy so dont get upset over that. Its just the arrogant attitude that got up my nose. I think I would advise all to leave him/her be. Time will iron out the arrogance and Im sure if he works pretty hard he can send his offspring to an over priced school funded in large part by the tax payer. Where the middle class can pretend they are getting a better education- when in reality you stick the sons and daughters of professionals together you going get great results.

As for the correcting-opinions remain divided. Despite writing tons of comments-a lot of students ignored them and still handed up rushed work !

Apologies for getting sidetracked, but on topic, the fact that you are critical of your approach shows that you are at the very least reflecting on how you can improve. For me personally, it is setting small achievable goals. For example, improve marking this mid term/term.

vamos!

I teach 9 class groups. That's up to 270 students. If I was to spend 30 mins per student correcting tests or marking essays it would take 135 hours. I teach for 22. I plan for approx 13. G meet students in my own time for extra orals for at least 3 hours a week.my extra curricular takes 2 hours. My debating team take up to 10 hours in the weeks coming up to a debate. G think a wannabe doctor should realise that there is a possible health risk to this plan...

LoveChanel

Dave0301 wrote: »

Judging by that response your English grinds teacher and all that assiduous marking was well heeded.



Apologies for getting sidetracked, but on topic, the fact that you are critical of your approach shows that you are at the very least reflecting on how you can improve. For me personally, it is setting small achievable goals. For example, improve marking this mid term/term.

Languages were never my strong point I'm afraid. My dyslexia certainly doesn't help either. I did ordinary level english by the way. So excuse my terrible grammar/spelling.

It must be very frustrating for teachers when students don't even bother to put effort into their work.

LoveChanel

vamos! wrote: »

I teach 9 class groups. That's up to 270 students. If I was to spend 30 mins per student correcting tests or marking essays it would take 135 hours. I teach for 22. I plan for approx 13. G meet students in my own time for extra orals for at least 3 hours a week.my extra curricular takes 2 hours. My debating team take up to 10 hours in the weeks coming up to a debate. G think a wannabe doctor should realise that there is a possible health risk to this plan...

That is a horrible workload and very unfair. No teacher should have that many students.

Dave0301

LoveChanel wrote: »

Languages were never my strong point I'm afraid. My dyslexia certainly doesn't help either. I did ordinary level english by the way. So excuse my terrible grammar/spelling.

It must be very frustrating for teachers when students don't even bother to put effort into their work.

I fail to see how the bold part has any relevance.

If you want to continue to discuss your grievances about the education system, another thread would be more suitable than hijacking this one anymore.

MrJones1973

You said the majority of maths teachers -48%? Is that a majority now? Is there any direct evidence they get poorer results?

spurious

Please, no more off-topic posts.
The forum charter is there to be read by people who have not posted in this forum before.

NormalBob Ubiquitypants

I think I can offer a couple of different views on this; a student, a part time lecturer and that of a child of a teacher.

My mother was a teacher for 40 years-just retired. She had 4 LC classes (5th and 6th- all honours- once every 5 years she got a pass english class) every year for history and english. She used to spend some time in August every year planning her material. Her first call was to take something up at least once a week from each of the LC classes-usually an essay. Each group had a different night allotted i.e. 6th hist was Monday, 5th eng was Tues etc. She would correct through some of the free periods to minimise the amount of work she had to take home.
You say you are having a problem in terms of discipline to do the work. If it is any help she used to do night study once a week to help get through work in the evening. Work usually ended up finishing most nights by 7pm. It was tiring but doable.

As a student I was very academic and focused. I had 10 As in JC and 6A1s and an A2 in the LC. Currently finishing a PhD. I did not have any interest in any subject that was not going to be of benefit for the LC. Literally no interest. So much so in 6th I did not do PE or anything outside of my 7 subjects. Students for the most part are not interested in the bull that the DoE want in order to tick boxes.

From what I have read the DoE evaluations seem to be of concern to you as I am sure they are to other teachers. If you are class based, perhaps a few themed posters on English and religion around the room would help. In order to encourage literacy maybe provide a list of books everyone should try and read before they have left. Don't make it a class thing, just something you do once a month or so. Look through other english and religion evaluations and see their recommendations, implement the suggestions that would take minimal effort.

On a practical note, my advice in terms of time planning is simple. Put yourself under a lot of immediate pressure. As in, "this is going to be completed in 30 minutes and then I am finished". There is a whole theory about the work filling the void and the time allotted. As a PhD researcher with no pressure from a supervisor I am very aware of this. If there is no deadline I would think about a problem for days before writing anything. Recently my supervisor put me under pressure one day for work and I managed to write 3 lectures in a matter of hours (I co lecture some courses). Planned with slides, everything. You have a degree in your area so a little confidence would not go amiss.

I noticed you sourcing materials online. This is both a blessing and a curse. Unless you are very specific about what you want, hours, and I mean hours, can be wasted comparing and contrasting different perspectives on an issue.

Finally, at the risk of offending you, I think you need to change your attitude to your job. You say you have no time, yet you can give grinds. You complain that there is not enough time to get things prepared, yet in the evening you are watching tv. If the stress of the situation is as high as you are saying, then you should try and eliminate that stress or at least minimise it as much as you can.

tl;dr
If what you are doing isn't working change it and refocus your priorities.

Featherbubble

NormalBob Ubiquitypants wrote: »

I think I can offer a couple of different views on this; a student, a part time lecturer and that of a child of a teacher.

My mother was a teacher for 40 years-just retired. She had 4 LC classes (5th and 6th- all honours- once every 5 years she got a pass english class) every year for history and english. She used to spend some time in August every year planning her material. Her first call was to take something up at least once a week from each of the LC classes-usually an essay. Each group had a different night allotted i.e. 6th hist was Monday, 5th eng was Tues etc. She would correct through some of the free periods to minimise the amount of work she had to take home.
You say you are having a problem in terms of discipline to do the work. If it is any help she used to do night study once a week to help get through work in the evening. Work usually ended up finishing most nights by 7pm. It was tiring but doable.

As a student I was very academic and focused. I had 10 As in JC and 6A1s and an A2 in the LC. Currently finishing a PhD. I did not have any interest in any subject that was not going to be of benefit for the LC. Literally no interest. So much so in 6th I did not do PE or anything outside of my 7 subjects. Students for the most part are not interested in the bull that the DoE want in order to tick boxes.

From what I have read the DoE evaluations seem to be of concern to you as I am sure they are to other teachers. If you are class based, perhaps a few themed posters on English and religion around the room would help. In order to encourage literacy maybe provide a list of books everyone should try and read before they have left. Don't make it a class thing, just something you do once a month or so. Look through other english and religion evaluations and see their recommendations, implement the suggestions that would take minimal effort.

On a practical note, my advice in terms of time planning is simple. Put yourself under a lot of immediate pressure. As in, "this is going to be completed in 30 minutes and then I am finished". There is a whole theory about the work filling the void and the time allotted. As a PhD researcher with no pressure from a supervisor I am very aware of this. If there is no deadline I would think about a problem for days before writing anything. Recently my supervisor put me under pressure one day for work and I managed to write 3 lectures in a matter of hours (I co lecture some courses). Planned with slides, everything. You have a degree in your area so a little confidence would not go amiss.

I noticed you sourcing materials online. This is both a blessing and a curse. Unless you are very specific about what you want, hours, and I mean hours, can be wasted comparing and contrasting different perspectives on an issue.

Finally, at the risk of offending you, I think you need to change your attitude to your job. You say you have no time, yet you can give grinds. You complain that there is not enough time to get things prepared, yet in the evening you are watching tv. If the stress of the situation is as high as you are saying, then you should try and eliminate that stress or at least minimise it as much as you can.

tl;dr
If what you are doing isn't working change it and refocus your priorities.

While your advice is well meaning, it really is obvious that you are not a teacher even if you had not said it. It would all be great in an ideal world but it simply doesn't work like that. For example, your mothers experience is irrelevant to the current situation of teachers due to the lack of free classes and the much larger workload of the average teacher these days. Classes take up 22 hours, S&S is at least 3 hours, extracurricular activities-for me anyway- at least 5 hours per week. I also coordinate a programme within the school (like many, many others) where about 4 hours work is needed each week. That doesn't include meeting other people in your department, talking to students, organising class trips/visits etc, communicating with home etc. And these are the weeks that there is no 4 hour parent teacher meeting after work, no subject options night, no Croke Park meetings or any of the other late evening events that happen at least every second week in my place. Only when all this is done can I begin to think about planning and correcting...

ustazjoseph

Keeping it practical . This from a recent guardian may help :

http://www.theguardian.com/teacher-network/teacher-blog/2014/aug/20/teacher-wellbeing-how-to-prepare-for-new-school-year?CMP=new_1194

Re mr LoveChanel references to "Public schools" . Most Irish secondary schools are actually private ie your cbs , pres , local convent etc. Many community schools are under the patronage of the diocese . Only the VEC / ETB schools are actually public schools in that sense. The local, ordinary non- fee paying former convent may well be "private" /ie voluntary although of course almost everyone who works there is paid by the state.

I think we have to accept that a difficulty in this country is that we have an odd and complicated education system which has evolved slowly over the years. Everyone who has been to school has an opinion ,usually strong and not always based on research.

MrJones1973

Just a note on the grinds-I do them to pay the bills. Childcare alone costs me about 900 a month. The grinds really only take place march-may . If I didnt do them I could not afford to run my car and yes I have no choice but to drive. There is no public transport. As for the TV-I could certainly cut that down but everyone deserves a bit of me time.

Thanks again to all.

Can I make a humble request to the moderator to lock this thread now-Its attracting every tom dick and harry and I have now got all the advice I need!