740Li smoking problem - decision time

Voodoomelon

As some may know, my recently purchased 740Li started burning oil and smoking badly at idle. The N62 V8 is well known to have valve stem seal failure from around the 80k miles mark, i'm only at 69k miles.

Anyways from the long reading I've done online, it's either the CCV system or valve stem seals that causes the smoking. I personally checked the CCV lines and vent valves and they're all intact and in good shape. So that, in conjunction with the agreement on many forums, it's undoubtedly the stem seals.

The car is under warranty from the dealer I bought it from; one month warranty remains. I mentioned to them that a local garage to me has done this job before, so they asked me to price it there. I have a price of approx €1000 plus VAT. I take it to them, dealer says they'll pay me €900 (i didn't agree to this, just let him talk) and essentially that's the end of the engine warranty as any problems after that isn't on them, which is acceptable enough. Job will take 3-4 days.

Second option is to give the car back to the dealer, who outsources their repairs to an independent in Dublin. The car was already in with them first time round, whos diagnosis and repair of the smoking was to do an oil service. The dealer said this mechanic will do "a" repair for around the €800 mark, which by the way, he doesn't think is the valve stem seals (i asked what he thought it was and wasn't really given an answer). This mechanic has never done valve stem seals before (he told me first time round) and personally I didn't like his attitude either time I met him.

The guys local to me are well respected in BMW circles, has apparently done the job before and also has the correct tools.

I have to basically choose what to do. Not sure if i'm not missing another option, like handing the car back and basically saying "fix it" and demand another 3 months warranty on the work done. Because I don't necessarily trust that a proper repair will be done if left back to Dublin.

Any thoughts? Dealer has been fairly decent and is offering a loan car regardless of option picked.

Thanks guys.

EDIT: Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALJ5uYry31E

toastedpickles

I would go with the local guys, provided you want to keep the car, and have the money, if they know what they're doing then thats piece of mind too

dgt

Local fellas that have done it before. The only way

MuppetCheck

Local. It will cost you a few quid but you know it's the only option in this case.

Voodoomelon

My only concern is that it's pretty much my diagnosis. I am 99% sure its the stem seals going by the rampant reports online, but there is no real way of knowing without labour intensive, invasive investigation. At least if it goes to Dublin, they attempt a repair, doesn't fix it, I can keep going back. To an extent. But he did hint at the fact that it would be in 2-3 weeks if I left it down, an indication that it's bye bye warranty once it's been in.

Yes I would rather go with the local guys, I guess its a case of finding out what they'll cover afterwards.

Supergurrier

Local guys and swallow a few hundred quid premium for it.

If you let this drag the garage will just try another quick fix and they plead poverty as it's outside warranty.

Voodoomelon

Thanks for the input guys, was leaning that way myself, good to hear similar thinking to whats been banging around my skull the last few days.

toastedpickles

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Thanks for the input guys, was leaning that way myself, good to hear similar thinking to whats been banging around my skull the last few days.

So now go do it and then come to the meet :pac:

Old diesel

Hope you get it sorted.

Garage 2 is clearly the better option of THESE 2 garages.

However (if it were my car) id be asking around in the BMW enthusiast circles for a recommendation based on the work to be done - and see where that would lead.

If it were my car id want the best possible people on the job.

Garage 2 may well be very very good - but as a general rule with something like this I don't have much patience with messing around - and would just want the top guy on the job from the word go.

Really do hope you get sorted

islanderre

Deffo local garage.....would have more faith in them especially if you have history with them already plus I reckon the Dublin crowd will drag it out so long that the warranty would be almost out once you get the car back.

Best of luck either way.... its an incredible car

Gavman84

Ya I say deffo go with local guys. At least you know they will do it right as been there before. Might cost you bit but if you like car and want to hold on it's the only option really.

Supergurrier

Correct reply to the title was obviously not to read the actual post and say something like.

"Tell the car it will get cancer and shurre they are almost a tenner a pack now."

MetzgerMeister

You're incredibly lucky to have found a garage local to you that has the right tools and has done it before. Any idea how well the first job held up?

TBH, it's a no brainer!

Voodoomelon

Aye, they're about 500 metres away from my work. I must ask them about the other job. Just looked at their Facebook page a few mins ago, they've currently a BMW V8 stripped down to the block for cleaning.

Supergurrier

Mmm

Porting

Voodoomelon

What he offered moneywise still makes no sense to me. There's no reason why my guys can't do the repair for €1130 inc VAT and the dealer just send them full payment, claiming the VAT back.

Instead he wants me to pay the VAT plus €100, for what, just to piss me off? I don't get it.

Kenny Logins

Sitec wrote: »

From reading your original post, it will cost you about €250 to have brand new valve stem oil seals fitted to a fairly prestigious & complicated car by people who've done it before.

Fair play to the dealer you bought it from offering €900 towards the repair.

#Edit# Just watched the video, the car looks clean from the rear and the noise is sublime.

Stinks tho'

Supergurrier

Voodoomelon wrote: »

What he offered moneywise still makes no sense to me. There's no reason why my guys can't do the repair for €1130 inc VAT and the dealer just send them full payment, claiming the VAT back.

Instead he wants me to pay the VAT plus €100, for what, just to piss me off? I don't get it.

He was haggling to save afew quid.

Never give your best price first etc. If you push them on it and say you want a full refund you will get them to pay it outright.

Voodoomelon

Voodoomelon wrote: »

What he offered moneywise still makes no sense to me. There's no reason why my guys can't do the repair for €1130 inc VAT and the dealer just send them full payment, claiming the VAT back.

Instead he wants me to pay the VAT plus €100, for what, just to piss me off? I don't get it.

That's what I was thinking aswell, to be honest.

Besides, regardless of whether or not the warranty expires, surely they'd still have to fix a problem that you notified them of within the warranty period?!
(ie; if you send it to the mechanic that the garage uses, surely you can keep sending it back as many times as you like until they fix the issue that you brought to their attention within the warranty period!?).

Voodoomelon

I think he was basically saying that its cheaper if his guys does it, but if you want your guy to do it you'll have to pay more. I don't plan to spend a penny on this, I already lumped €500 on a new door handle, rear view mirror, rear PDC sensors and software upgrade to fix issues he said he'd fix.

Supergurrier

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I think he was basically saying that its cheaper if his guys does it, but if you want your guy to do it you'll have to pay more. I don't plan to spend a penny on this, I already lumped €500 on a new door handle, rear view mirror, rear PDC sensors and software upgrade to fix issues he said he'd fix.

It's cheaper because it will most likely just get another oil change (to the wrong grade to mask the problem) and the fault codes reset.

He hasn't a pot to piss in as it stands.

He either fixes it properly where you want it fixed and gets the car gone with an issue he 100% knew about if we are honest.

or

He doesn't play ball with you and you get a full refund and he has to start the whole masking the issue thing all over again for the next victim buyer.

Voodoomelon

I can be a bit naive sometimes in that I usually give people the benefit of the doubt in most situations, he did say he was driving the car for a few weeks and he and the previous owner had no problems. Then again, could be a pack of lies, who knows, he seems genuine enough.

Either way, I don't plan on paying.

Sitec wrote: »

It's a 2005 car bought from an independent, their one month warranty means nothing unless you have it writing.

Has a 3 month warranty in writing, theres no question of it being not covered.

galwaytt

Supergurrier wrote: »

He either fixes it properly where you want it fixed

Not so for a warranty. If it's his job to repair, it's his to arrange. You can check the work over, and get records, but I don't think you can stipulate using a 3rd Party for his warranty work - but I'm open to correction on this.

corkgsxr

Garage or small claims.


They won't fix a problem then **** em

Cee-Jay-Cee

Personally I'd ask him to foot the bill for the entire job otherwise i'd return the car and demand a full refund. He won't want that as a 740 would be difficult to shift on and may cut his losses and stump up for the repairs at the garage local to you. There would be no alternative in my world.

Casati

I'd let him fix it, when your local lad starts working on it there is no guarantee they won't find a tonne of other stuff that could dramatically push up the cost of the repair, let your dealer take the risk on this.


Do you believe the mileage to be correct - i.e. do have previous service receipts from new or just a stamped book?

Old diesel

galwaytt wrote: »

Not so for a warranty. If it's his job to repair, it's his to arrange. You can check the work over, and get records, but I don't think you can stipulate using a 3rd Party for his warranty work - but I'm open to correction on this.

Completely understand where your coming from.

But what happens if the subcontractor doesn't fix it if it goes in this time.

Looking at it from another viewpoint - if Garage no 2 is respected in BMW circles then they are probably respected for a reason - ie they are noted for decent work.

The way i look at it - is that the dealers subcontractor - has already had one shot at fixing the car - AND failed.

How many chances should the subcontractor get to fix the car

Seweryn

Good Luck with the repair, whichver way you are going to get it sorted. I would obviously try to repair it in a garage that have the experience with the particular issue. It is just a matter of agreeing it with the dealer, which may not be easy.

BTW, it looks like another school error in the design department of BMW. I can't understand these people designing such an advanced engine knowing it runs hot (at 105 deg C or so), as they just designed it that way, and then somehow skimping on upgrading a piece of rubber worth 5p. Obviously, BMW wash their hands of the problem as its non existent, as usual. Long time since German cars were actually engineered.

mickdw

Casati wrote: »

I'd let him fix it, when your local lad starts working on it there is no guarantee they won't find a tonne of other stuff that could dramatically push up the cost of the repair, let your dealer take the risk on this.


Do you believe the mileage to be correct - i.e. do have previous service receipts from new or just a stamped book?

I wouldnt let the dealer fix it. He will without doubt do a botch and then you are stuck with it.

renofan

Could you get him to pay for the repair under the Sale of goods act? His "attempt" t fixing the problem was a joke so no way I'd let him near it again and since you have found someone who has done it before I'd go with them.

Here is hoping you do get it sorted.

Voodoomelon

Rang the dealer today and he's covering the full cost of the repair at my local garage. He's also supplying a loan car, can't say fairer than that.

MuppetCheck

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Rang the dealer today and he's covering the full cost of the repair at my local garage. He's also supplying a loan car, can't say fairer than that.

Sounds like the best outcome you could hope for. Hope the repair works out, but stories like this would scare the shyte out of you!

Voodoomelon

Sure does! I still can't get over the price of the repair, it sounds too good to be true as quotes in the States have been $3000-$4000. I suppose the key here is already having done the job and already having the tools.

Seweryn

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Rang the dealer today and he's covering the full cost of the repair at my local garage. He's also supplying a loan car, can't say fairer than that.

That is a great outcome, could not be better. Good luck with the repair works.

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Sure does! I still can't get over the price of the repair, it sounds too good to be true as quotes in the States have been $3000-$4000. I suppose the key here is already having done the job and already having the tools.

I heard of even higher quotes than this, i.e. up to $8k, but that would probably in the main stealer. Funny thing is, this is probably the highes bill you can pay to get replaced the cheapest of the cheapest parts in a car.

toastedpickles

Now that would be something to see in the today i did something thread!

Voodoomelon

Seweryn wrote: »

I heard of even higher quotes than this, i.e. up to $8k, but that would probably in the main stealer. Funny thing is, this is probably the highes bill you can pay to get replaced the cheapest of the cheapest parts in a car.

Me too, $7-$9k from the dealer. That's at about 45 hours labour at dealer rates, removing the heads and replacing everything involved in that task alone.

toastedpickles wrote: »

Now that would be something to see in the today i did something thread!

I'll get them to take pics and i'll post them up.

toastedpickles

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I'll get them to take pics and i'll post them up.

Do, Its something I would love to see

dgt

Best of luck man, thats a fantastic outcome

unkel

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Rang the dealer today and he's covering the full cost of the repair at my local garage. He's also supplying a loan car, can't say fairer than that.

Nice one! I think at this stage it is fair to name & shame praise the dealer

Sobanek

unkel wrote: »

Nice one! I think at this stage it is fair to name & shame praise the dealer

It's Beshoff. They're sound to deal with from what I hear.

unkel

Aye. Haven't heard a bad thing about them. Hopefully their handling of this case will bring them back some good luck / sales / karma

Sobanek

unkel wrote: »

Aye. Haven't heard a bad thing about them. Hopefully their handling of this case will bring them back some good luck / sales / karma

They had a nice 2005 530d for sale not so long ago that I was actually interested in, but it's gone now

Neilw

Sobanek wrote: »

They had a nice 2005 530d for sale not so long ago that I was actually interested in, but it's gone now

They seem to turnover stock fairly quick, a few cars I wanted to see were sold within days.

Voodoomelon

Sobanek wrote: »

They had a nice 2005 530d for sale not so long ago that I was actually interested in, but it's gone now

PM sent.

lomb

Bar the smoking issue whats ownership like of the big 7? What sort of mpg do you get and is it a leap forward over something like a 530d?
Did you drive or own any of the 7s competitors?

Voodoomelon

I do 80-90% town driving and short trips, consumption is sitting around 17MPG. Does 30 on the nose on the motorway. Have only driven a 520D and also a 530D with a blown turbo. No comparison in with the 520D anyways. They are considerably larger than the E60 inside and out, the long wheel base aside.

Truely streets ahead of the 728i I had before in nearly every way, although the steering is more artificial and I don't feel it handles as well. Power is in a different league to the 2.8l I6 I had as you would expect. Took me a while to warm to this new model though, but I think it's the same when you move from any car you've had for a long time, you only see the bad bits. Overall it's a superior car, reliability and looks are a matter of debate. Time will tell on the reliability.

rocky

Is this assumed problem the same that occurs in the 550/750i ?

Voodoomelon

Yup, right across the N62 range.

Old diesel

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I do 80-90% town driving and short trips, consumption is sitting around 17MPG. Does 30 on the nose on the motorway. Have only driven a 520D and also a 530D with a blown turbo. No comparison in with the 520D anyways. They are considerably larger than the E60 inside and out, the long wheel base aside.

Truely streets ahead of the 728i I had before in nearly every way, although the steering is more artificial and I don't feel it handles as well. Power is in a different league to the 2.8l I6 I had as you would expect. Took me a while to warm to this new model though, but I think it's the same when you move from any car you've had for a long time, you only see the bad bits. Overall it's a superior car, reliability and looks are a matter of debate. Time will tell on the reliability.

Does ride comfort match up to what one would expect from a luxury car???

lomb

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Overall it's a superior car, reliability and looks are a matter of debate. Time will tell on the reliability.

The interior seems amazing from pictures/ outside whats it like when in it, comfortable, not claustrophobic?

daRobot

God damn BMW V8's. They can eat up cash on repairs so fast, as I know only too well.

Really lucky that this happened within the warranty timeframe.

Hopefully this will be the last hassle you have with it.