Gun Safe in Apartment?

jmaguire1977

Hi All,

I'd like to ask for some advice on installing a gun safe in an apartment. It would be for a rifle and a pistol. My problem is that I have underfloor heating and cannot drill into the floor and I am unsure where to mount the safe to in order to comply with "solid structure". Any help would be appreciated.

Regards,

Jim

Witcher

Are your walls concrete?

IRLConor

jmaguire1977 wrote: »

Hi All,

I'd like to ask for some advice on installing a gun safe in an apartment. It would be for a rifle and a pistol. My problem is that I have underfloor heating and cannot drill into the floor and I am unsure where to mount the safe to in order to comply with "solid structure". Any help would be appreciated.

Regards,

Jim

If you can't attach it to the floor, then you'll have to attach it to a wall. Do you have any solid walls in a useful place to put a safe?

jmaguire1977

I don't think any of the walls are concrete. I've tried tapping on them all and they all appear to be drywall.

Cass

Are they studded. There may be a solid wall on one side behind the plaster.

The Aussie

jmaguire1977 wrote: »

I don't think any of the walls are concrete.

Unless you live in Priory Hall, the dividing walls between apartments will be solid.

cookimonster

Have you space in a closet or wardrobe. You can cut out either the plaster board and / or the interior of the unit flush to the safe dimensions and mount the safe against a solid wall. You will find that this greatly reduces the foot print of the safe in the space where it is installed as well as being discreet. If it needs to be removed any damages are easily repaired and again more discrete then on a large wall space.

jagged

The dividing walls will almost certainly be concrete. The wall is most probably studded...

MarkWolff

The Aussie wrote: »

Unless you live in Priory Hall, the dividing walls between apartments will be solid.

Not necessarily,
You can have a double stud party wall but it may be possible create a concrete pad on top of your existing concrete slab and secure the safe to the new pad in addition to a plywood frame between the back of the safe and stud wall.

The Aussie

MarkWolff wrote: »

Not necessarily,
You can have a double stud party wall but it may be possible create a concrete pad on top of your existing concrete slab and secure the safe to the new pad in addition to a plywood frame between the back of the safe and stud wall.

And what would the Fire Rating of a Stud Partition Wall be in Minutes please. (Read the report into Priory Hall before replying)

Also at what stage would it be structurally compromised bearing in mind it's a Dividing Wall in an Apartment.

MarkWolff

The Aussie wrote: »

And what would the Fire Rating of a Stud Partition Wall be in Minutes please. (Read the report into Priory Hall before replying)

Also at what stage would it be structurally compromised bearing in mind it's a Dividing Wall in an Apartment.

Not that it has anything to do with putting a safe into an apartment.! But it is possible to create a 120min fire rated stud partition.
Thousands of timber frame apartments are build this way every year throughout the world.

See figure A.8.1 on page 2, but I do happen to agree that a solid .215 wall built of concrete block in accordance with IS EN 9002 is preferable.

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,1684,en.pdf

dCorbus

The Aussie wrote: »

And what would the Fire Rating of a Stud Partition Wall be in Minutes.

How many minutes do you want?
It all depends on the FR requirements and the specification.

The reason Priory Hall isn't fire rated is more to do with what wasn't put in, rather than what was supposed to be put in.

ATM I've 92 apartments on the go all with 120min FR stud partitions - specifications all approved by BC and being built to manufacturers specs to achieve that 120min rating.

Not all party walls between flats are concrete or block construction. Nor are they required to be.

This has been discussed before - the wording is unclear and nontechnical.

But if you wanted to fix to the floor slab/screed - there *shouldn't* be u/f heating pipes within the zone of your built-in wardrobes, so you could investigate that location. Your H&S Manual / O&M Handbook should have that information.

The relevant wording is 'solid' - it doesn't have to be a structural wall per se. Just solid enough to allow a secure fixing.

dCorbus

One VERY important thing to bear in mind though if you live in an apartment: Do not go removing any plasterboard from your separating walls regardless of whether the substructure is blockwork, concrete, timber stud, or metsec - the plasterboard may very well be required for both fire and acoustic separation and as such should not be tampered with.

As MarkWolffe suggests you may have to create a 'solid structure' to which you can fix the safe.

dCorbus

It may be useful to have a look at this thread from a while back: http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056951497/1

Similar discussion (as ever, no concrete conclusions!!)

And none of it legal advice!

It's really down to your Super what he/she reckons is suitable. But hopefully some of this will point you in the right direction.

dC

rugermk3

jmaguire1977 wrote: »

Hi All,

I'd like to ask for some advice on installing a gun safe in an apartment. It would be for a rifle and a pistol. My problem is that I have underfloor heating and cannot drill into the floor and I am unsure where to mount the safe to in order to comply with "solid structure". Any help would be appreciated.

Regards,

Jim

hi jim hows things , there has to be a solid wall in your apartment , if its not concrete its block ,
if you find it is concrete you can use normal tap in anchor bolts get them in any hardware shop drill your holes the same size as your bolt, tap the bolt in with a hammer tighten up and job done,

if you find its a block wall , I wouldn't use them bolts because they expand when tighten up and can shatter the block witch isn't ideal , if somebody got a crowbar behind the safe it may come away from the wall,

there`s this stuff call chemical cement again ull pick it up in any good hardware shop , and how you use it is, drill your hole 2mm bigger than your bolt so say your bolt is 12mm drill a 14mm hole , u`ll have to blow the dust out of the hole after drilling them, you can buy a pump for the job , I used a straw or a push bike pump would do the job , try get most of the dust out of the holes, then get the chemical it comes in like a silicone tube, ( make sure u have the correct gun for the tube of chemical) stick the nozzle into the hole and slowly pump the chemical into the hole has u pull the nozzle out of the hole , u want to fill the hole with out gaps in the chemical , that done get your bolt witch is really just treaded bar, as u push your bolt into the hole start turning the bolt as u push , that way the chemical is filling up the threads on the bolt, make sure you leave plenty of tread sticking out of the wall to get thru your safe and to get your nut on , leave it to harden over night then tighten up the nuts , when this stuff sets its never coming off the wall, hope that helps you out , if you haven't done it yet I could pass my number on to u a talk u thru it , but its simple cant really go wrong, take care jim

rsole1

dCorbus wrote: »

One VERY important thing to bear in mind though if you live in an apartment: Do not go removing any plasterboard from your separating walls regardless of whether the substructure is blockwork, concrete, timber stud, or metsec - the plasterboard may very well be required for both fire and acoustic separation and as such should not be tampered with.

As MarkWolffe suggests you may have to create a 'solid structure' to which you can fix the safe.

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