John Joe Nevin

flutered

madred006 wrote: »

Both sides are this carried over from a row the night before and also I'm the hospital the day he went in they were like animals in there . It's a pity the full story is not going the rounds , anyhow what goes around comes around .

theose people act like that in every a&e in ireland, the problem imo is that in cases like this the keystones broker a truce between both sides, where as if it was settled folks done the same they would be locked up.

flutered

Syferus wrote: »

People writing him off without proper medical knowledge of the situation is pretty silly.

an atleathe sitting on their rear for say three months onwards is in serious trouble both physically and mentally, one leg broken with the bone sticking thro the skin is a serious injury, never mind having the second one broken as well, he will have some serious demons to deal with, there is an old saying in sport, it goes, they never come back.

coronaextra

Syferus wrote: »

People writing him off without proper medical knowledge of the situation is pretty silly.

Well two broken legs sustained in that manner doesn't exactly bode well for ones future career in any sport, never mind one as challenging as pro boxing.

Even sustaining an injury such as knee/ankle ligament damage can really effect some peoples mobility, never mind two broken legs. And as mentioned, there is the mental aspect to this too and we dont know how he will cope with the rehabilitation.

I wish him all the best on his recovery, but I am worried about his future in proboxing.

Syferus

coronaextra wrote: »

Well two broken legs sustained in that manner doesn't exactly bode well for ones future career in any sport, never mind one as challenging as pro boxing.

Even sustaining an injury such as knee/ankle ligament damage can really effect some peoples mobility, never mind two broken legs. And as mentioned, there is the mental aspect to this too and we dont know how he will cope with the rehabilitation.

I wish him all the best on his recovery, but I am worried about his future in proboxing.

Which is entirely the pie-in-the-sky generalised stuff I've read elsewhere. Every injury is different and the proof comes in two or three years time when you have a long body of work to judge.

Making a call now without even basic medical knowledge is just classic Irish hand-wringing.

You are assuming, nothing more.

walshb

Syferus wrote: »

Which is entirely the pie-in-the-sky generalised stuff I've read elsewhere. Every injury is different and the proof comes in two or three years time when you have a long body of work to judge.

Making a call now without even basic medical knowledge is just classic Irish hand-wringing.

You are assuming, nothing more.

I think it's only fair and natural that people could be quite pessimistic about a young man in the pro game who suffers two broken legs. It's not assuming. He had his legs broken. No matter what positives that may come, they can't be more positive than it never happening in the first place.

Whatever happens with JJN I think it's fair for us to say that the incident is very alarming. Is there such thing as a harmless two leg break?

gene_tunney

walshb wrote: »

I think it's only fair and natural that people could be quite pessimistic about a young man in the pro game who suffers two broken legs. It's not assuming. He had his legs broken. No matter what positives that may come, they can't be more positive than it never happening in the first place.

Whatever happens with JJN I think it's fair for us to say that the incident is very alarming. Is there such thing as a harmless two leg break?

Well the second break was obviously quite mild considering it was only picked up radiologically and JJN didn't suspect it was broken at all. Obviously it will affect him but let's not speculate baselessly without the facts

Joeseph Balls

pac_man wrote: »

Anyone know what's happening with him?

Read a article on him a while back. Said a big yr for him. He said looking for a big fight Patrick's day (or weekend). That was the last I seen. A while back as in Dec or Jan.

Joeseph Balls

pac_man wrote: »

I think I may have read the same article. He needs to be out alot more regularly.

I think so. I'm not ssurehow 'great' the leg recovery was, but I'd expect if it was, he'd be active by now.
Before someone jumps down my neck on his injury, I'm going by what was said in the article.

Henno30

Show about him on RTE 2 at the moment

JustTheOne

Your man in America saying he will learn stuff there he can't go Ireland.

Didn't like that.

Henno30

JustTheOne wrote: »

Your man in America saying he will learn stuff there he can't go Ireland.

Didn't like that.

He's probably right though.

JustTheOne

Henno30 wrote: »

He's probably right though.

Don't agree.

Strongbow10

JustTheOne wrote: »

Your man in America saying he will learn stuff there he can't go Ireland.

Didn't like that.

What part of that statement do you not agree with? it goes without saying he will learn more out there.

For sheer sparring alone

FTA69

The boxing set up in the States is something else, Ireland could never compare. In America he'll have his pick of national and regional champions, seasoned pros and prospects on the same level of development as himself. Not only does the USA have it's own vast crop of boxers, Nevin will also be training with boxers from all over the world e.g Mexicans, Cubans etc. He can also travel to Vegas to train with the best of the best and can work with the best coaches.

If people think that's comparable to anything you'll find in Dublin they're codding themselves.

walshb

Interesting film. I didn't like the whole "on the drink" malarky because he was bored after his injury It's a sign of weakness, and so typically Irish and predictable. IMO not something a pro fighter should have. JJN comes across as a likable guy. As to the injury. Very serious. Very nasty. And, what about these dropped charges? I don't five a fook that JJN didn't testify, there surely is some mechanisms in our justice system that can still prosecute a person for a quite serious crime. They knew who did it. That was pretty much confirmed. And confirmed on film.

Henno30

walshb wrote: »

Interesting film. I didn't like the whole "on the drink" malarky because he was bored after his injury It's a sign of weakness, and so typically Irish and predictable. IMO not something a pro fighter should have. JJN comes across as a likable guy. As to the injury. Very serious. Very nasty. And, what about these dropped charges? I don't five a fook that JJN didn't testify, there surely is some mechanisms in our justice system that can still prosecute a person for a quite serious crime. They knew who did it. That was pretty much confirmed. And confirmed on film.

I see where you're coming from with the alcohol thing, but honestly I can understand it in Nevin's case. He's been training all his life to the extent that his entire identity is pretty much wrapped up in his boxing career.

To suddenly be pulled out of that and find himself in a wheelchair is an extremely traumatic thing to happen to any young man. And turning to substances is a natural reaction to that. It wasn't like he just tore a shoulder ligament or something, which would be bad enough. The doctors were telling him there was no chance of him ever fighting again.

walshb

Henno30 wrote: »

I see where you're coming from with the alcohol thing, but honestly I can understand it in Nevin's case. He's been training all his life to the extent that his entire identity is pretty much wrapped up in his boxing career.

To suddenly be pulled out of that and find himself in a wheelchair is an extremely traumatic thing to happen to any young man. And turning to substances is a natural reaction to that. It wasn't like he just tore a shoulder ligament or something, which would be bad enough. The doctors were telling him there was no chance of him ever fighting again.

That is my exact point. Turning to alcohol is just all too stereotyped and predictable, and yes, shows a lack of character for such a disciplined person as regards training and exercise and competing at the highest level. I was disappointed. And no, it's not all that understandable. Your post seems to be like "well, what else was he to do?" As if he had little options. I don't buy that. It's a sort of lame excuse. I also don't think that this view is harsh or not realistic and achievable.

walshb

Henno30 wrote: »

And turning to substances is a natural reaction to that.

This I find odd?

walshb

gene_tunney wrote: »

Well the second break was obviously quite mild considering it was only picked up radiologically and JJN didn't suspect it was broken at all. Obviously it will affect him but let's not speculate baselessly without the facts

BTW, gene, did you look at the programme. Change of mind, maybe?

Henno30

walshb wrote: »

This I find odd?

Lots of studies into both substance abuse and depression back it up.

Nevin was vulnerable on two counts. Firstly, he was someone whose whole life was taking up with training and boxing, and now all that stimulation was taken away from him and he was sat on a couch unable to do anything.

Secondly, his whole purpose as a man was becoming a great fighter and suddenly he's been told he'll probably never fight again. That's an incredibly traumatic thing for someone like him to experience and it would no surprise at all for it to send him spiralling into depression.

Character is a knee-jerk explanation here for something that has much deeper psychological roots. Being suddenly plunged into what was for him a mind-numbingly boring existence and having his life's purpose ripped away from him made him an extremely likely candidate for substance abuse. You can call it weakness if you like, but that's not a whole lot different from succumbing to a physical illness being a reflection of weakness.

Chrissybhoy

I think it's perfectly understandable that he turned to alcohol. The fella has trained all his life and competed all his life at the top level to have that taking away from you and told you might never box again while sitting in a wheelchair plus your daily routine of training everyday gone. I can understand why he would. Not everyone is the same people deal with stuff differently. I know from soccer background when footballers hang up their boots they find it very hard to accept their finished and turn to drink gambling etc

walshb

Henno30 wrote: »

Lots of studies into both substance abuse and depression back it up.

Nevin was vulnerable on two counts. Firstly, he was someone whose whole life was taking up with training and boxing, and now all that stimulation was taken away from him and he was sat on a couch unable to do anything.

Secondly, his whole purpose as a man was becoming a great fighter and suddenly he's been told he'll probably never fight again. That's an incredibly traumatic thing for someone like him to experience and it would no surprise at all for it to send him spiralling into depression.

Character is a knee-jerk explanation here for something that has much deeper psychological roots. Being suddenly plunged into what was for him a mind-numbingly boring existence and having his life's purpose ripped away from him made him an extremely likely candidate for substance abuse. You can call it weakness if you like, but that's not a whole lot different from succumbing to a physical illness being a reflection of weakness.

It's just that you seemed to label it as a given, (natural) that we all turn to drink when we suffer a setback. No, not every person who has had a fall or a knock back resorts to going on the pi$s to cope. It's not natural for a lot of people. That's not to say that going on the pi£s is a crime or really bad. Just that in this case, for a man with such discipline and dedication and mental strength in the toughest sport on earth to show that kind of "ah, sure what else was for me" attitude. Yes, I was a bit let down, because I expected something less predictable and stereotyped. I don't think that that attitude is the attitude of a winner and a champion. It was all a bit too blase for me. I expected more. I can't lie.

What did you make of the charges being dropped? That really bugged me.

And, he needs to get fighting. 3 fights so far, and no fight since November?

Henno30

walshb wrote: »

It's just that you seemed to label it as a given, (natural) that we all turn to drink when we suffer a setback. No, not every person who has had a fall or a knock back resorts to going on the pi$s to cope. It's not natural for a lot of people. That's not to say that going on the pi£s is a crime or really bad. Just that in this case, for a man with such discipline and dedication and mental strength in the toughest sport on earth to show that kind of "ah, sure what else was for me" attitude. Yes, I was a bit let down, because I expected something less predictable and stereotyped. I don't think that that attitude is the attitude of a winner and a champion. It was all a bit too blase for me. I expected more. I can't lie.

What did you make of the charges being dropped? That really bugged me.

And, he needs to get fighting. 3 fights so far, and no fight since November?

No, it's not inevitable. But depression is real and so is the increased likelihood of substance abuse so you need to look at the underlying reasons for it rather than resorting to 'character' as a catch-all explanation.

walshb

Henno30 wrote: »

No, it's not inevitable. But depression is real and so is the increased likelihood of substance abuse so you need to look at the underlying reasons for it rather than resorting to 'character' as a catch-all explanation.

Did JJN claim he was suffering from depression? I didn't hear that. Also, even if true, it still is not a given that we turn to substances to cope, apart from prescribed substances. Of course, after such a set back we might all be a bit blue, or depressed, but was it determined in the film that JJN was diagnosed as suffering from depression?

I don't want to drag the thread too far off topic. My overall view of JJN from the film was a little disappointing as regards his attitude to being a pro boxer. His comeback from a serious injury was great. Real credit there. As for a pro, I was never too optimistic about his chances, and the film last night reiterated this for me. Why no fights since November? Maybe someone here has the answer? Could it be down to him not being committed and maybe on the pis£ over the festive period?

When you hear a fighter talking about going on the rip in such a casual way then it doesn't instill a real belief or confidence. Boxing is a tough and at times a lonley sport. Real mental strength is needed. I am not sure that what I saw last night is a fighter with the credentials to succeed. I already have reservations as regards his natural and physical ability, and now I have reservations as regards his dedication and mental approach. If he had the physical tools in abundance then maybe the odd slip here and there as regards the mental approach could be masked and forgiven. But for me, JJN needs to be 100 percent in both his physical and mental preparation. I didn't see that last night.

Henno30

Possible he doesn't have it upstairs alright. But as you say, his style means he's up against it to start with in the pro game.

walshb

Henno30 wrote: »

Possible he doesn't have it upstairs alright. But as you say, his style means he's up against it to start with in the pro game.

Thanks, but you haven't engaged any of my questions. You mentioned depression. Maybe I missed something, but was he diagnosed with depression following the attack?

You don't have to answer, just that I posted a bit, and you didn't address most of it.

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

Nevin was visibly depressed from his body language and tone coupled with the doctor mentioning mood changes, all of which is understandable giving his circumstances.Calling him weak is in it's self a weak argument.

I think your focussing too much on this drink issue.It didn't state on the doc, how long he was on the drink.The transitional story of a a non-drinker to someone having a few pints can often be exacerbated to the point that
he's made to look like a alcoholic. We don't know the extend of his drinking. What I found interesting was that he lost a couple of kg despite his stationary state.

Mood changes and feeling down are natural for any person who has suffered quite a set back. Me mentioning a weakness is just that. He said that all he could do and see was to drink. That to me is a sign of weakness. It could happen to anyone. I am just calling it as it is. He had the look and tone of someone who was disappointed and kind of ashamed that he went that route.

I am not focusing too much on the drink. He and the film made it an important part of the documentary. It is something to focus on when you are talking about such a dedicated athlete in such a tough sport. It shouldn't be so blase and trivial. Far from it.

I am looking at the film as a guide as to what I see and predict for JJN. No fights since November, and admitting to going on the rip after his setback, as well as implying that he has done it before do not instill any confidence in me as regards him succeeding in the pro sport. Hell, he could prove me wrong. I am simply living in the now.

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

I thought the whole set up seems a bit disjointed. You have a manager and a coach telling him there's no better way than the eponymous "Philly style". It's bull**** really. The footwork or the reflexes haven't been noticeable in his wild mannered pro fights. He doesn't appear to enjoy it over there and I don't think he has a personality that is conducive to selling fights. Are Greenblood a promoter or management outfit or both because there's conflicting info about this? It may have some explanation as to why he hasn't fought since November.

Overall having watched the documentary,It didn't inspire me with any great deal of confidence but maybe the negativity surrounding the leg break overshadowed my thoughts.

I'm with you fully here. I got that feeling too. I came away not being motivated or confident for JJN. He exhibited a dislike for the spotlight, and even a fear from being in it. Using words like 'terrifed.'

MD1990

walshb wrote: »

Mood changes and feeling down are natural for any person who has suffered quite a set back. Me mentioning a weakness is just that. He said that all he could do and see was to drink. That to me is a sign of weakness. It could happen to anyone. I am just calling it as it is. He had the look and tone of someone who was disappointed and kind of ashamed that he went that route.

I am not focusing too much on the drink. He and the film made it an important part of the documentary. It is something to focus on when you are talking about such a dedicated athlete in such a tough sport. It shouldn't be so blase and trivial. Far from it.

I am looking at the film as a guide as to what I see and predict for JJN. No fights since November, and admitting to going on the rip after his setback, as well as implying that he has done it before do not instill any confidence in me as regards him succeeding in the pro sport. Hell, he could prove me wrong. I am simply living in the now.

Yes you are. Your saying he could have been drinking alot over christmas. Maybe he was training hard to regain strength in his legs & wants to get back to his best for his next fight.
Also he turned to drink to forget about what had happen which isn't strange at all.

walshb

MD1990 wrote: »

Yes you are. Your saying he could have been drinking alot over christmas. Maybe he was training hard to regain strength in his legs & wants to get back to his best for his next fight.
Also he turned to drink to forget about what had happen which isn't strange at all.

Who said it was strange that he turned to drink?

The film seemed to imply that he has turned to alcohol on several occasions. That's grand. His life, his sport/career. I just wasn't all that impressed or wowed by what I can expect from him in the future. And, yes, alcohol was one reason why I was not impressed/motivated by how he might fare at the pro game.

I asked the question as to why he may not have fought since November? Given the fact that he admitted to going astray as regards on the drink I wondered could it have been a factor?