John Joe Nevin

megadodge

Anybody know what the story is?

I mean there hasn't been a word since he was pulled out of the World Championship team as he was turning pro, but since then nothing.

I always enjoyed watching him box and can't wait to see him again, but time is ticking away.

Johner

http://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2014/0122/499477-nevin/

John Joe Nevin will make his professional boxing debut next month but exact details of the fight have yet to be confirmed.

However, the Mullingar fighter’s second pro bout will take place in Boston on St Patrick's Day, his promoters, Green Blood, have confirmed.

Further details about the fights, the second of which will take place at the House of Blues in Massachusetts, will be revealed in the coming weeks.

The Olympic silver medallist has been training at Bozy’s Dungeon Gym in Philadelphia with his Irish coach Brian McKeown since arriving in Philadelphia last week.

ah,sure

Fighting unbeaten Puerto Rican Alberto Candelaria in Boston on March 17, flying out to America on March 4.

HigginsJ

Cant find much info on Candelaria online apart from his record. Easy start for Nevin?

How do people thino Nevin will take to the pro game?

megadodge

HigginsJ wrote: »

Cant find much info on Candelaria online apart from his record. Easy start for Nevin?

How do people thino Nevin will take to the pro game?

Well I'm a longterm admirer of his and have had my arguments about his worth on this forum long before he made the bigtime, so I'm a bit biased. But, I think his stint in the WSB proved he really has what it takes, assuming his stamina is ok. His skill levels are top notch and I guess it's just a case of making sure he's looked after properly, as the pro game can be a lonely place away from home. Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing how he does.

walshb

Nevin took a while to grow on me. For the first few years I wasn't in awe. I always felt that he left something in the ring on the big occasions. It's only over the past 2-3 years that he has won me over. And that isn't him doing the same thing. The big change was his aggression and really giving it his all. He mixed it up. He showed versatility.

He showed a more attacking game. This won him many tough and close fights. He wasn't content to just move and slip and counter and steal, and make the foe miss. He went and took many fights by the scruff. He led, attacked, negated and really mixed up his game. It made a big difference in my view.

This has led me to be more open minded about his pro chances. 3 years and more ago I wouldn't have had much faith. Now I have a lot more.

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

Nevin took a while to grow on me. For the first few years I wasn't in awe. I always felt that he left something in the ring on the big occasions. It's only over the past 2-3 years that he has won me over. And that isn't him doing the same thing. The big change was his aggression and really giving it his all. He mixed it up. He showed versatility.

He showed a more attacking game. This won him many tough and close fights. He wasn't content to just move and slip and counter and steal, and make the foe miss. He went and took many fights by the scruff. He led, attacked, negated and really mixed up his game. It made a big difference in my view.

This has led me to be more open minded about his pro chances. 3 years and more ago I wouldn't have had much faith. Now I have a lot more.

Walshie, I had you in mind when I mentioned the arguements I've had on here about Nevin.

My big problem with your viewpoint is your obsession with aggression. Your comments above equate "showing more aggression" and "mixing it up more" to "giving it all" despite the fact that Nevin is at his absolute best when he's countering an attacking opponent. Perfect examples were his masterclasses against the Mexican and Cuban in the Olympics. If he had showed more aggression and mixed it up with either of them, he'd have lost. Simple as that.

Luke Campbell on the other hand made the mistake of attacking Nevin the first time they fought and lost widely. He learned. The next two times they fought he waited and waited and eventually got Nevin to lead. Two wins followed (admittedly very close, esp. the World semi).

My point was always that Nevin was in there to win, not to entertain. By mixing it up and "taking it by the scruff", he's going to be more entertaining to look at, but that doesn't make him a better fighter. His defensive wizardry and countering ability are what has made him so successful. Mayweather is a perfect example of this and he hasn't done too bad for himself.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

Walshie, I had you in mind when I mentioned the arguements I've had on here about Nevin.

My big problem with your viewpoint is your obsession with aggression. Your comments above equate "showing more aggression" and "mixing it up more" to "giving it all" despite the fact that Nevin is at his absolute best when he's countering an attacking opponent. Perfect examples were his masterclasses against the Mexican and Cuban in the Olympics. If he had showed more aggression and mixed it up with either of them, he'd have lost. Simple as that.

Luke Campbell on the other hand made the mistake of attacking Nevin the first time they fought and lost widely. He learned. The next two times they fought he waited and waited and eventually got Nevin to lead. Two wins followed (admittedly very close, esp. the World semi).

My point was always that Nevin was in there to win, not to entertain. By mixing it up and "taking it by the scruff", he's going to be more entertaining to look at, but that doesn't make him a better fighter. His defensive wizardry and countering ability are what has made him so successful. Mayweather is an example of this and he hasn't done too bad for himself.

I don't have any obsession with aggression at all. I wanted Nevin to show more, that's all. That doesn't mean that I wanted him to neglect his other talents and skills.

I don't mean that he should be aggressive for the sake of it, but no doubt in my mind that Nevin over the past 2-3 years has shown a more aggressive game. Just enough to make him a better fighter. He is brilliant on the counter, but many close fights he was too reliant on it. That was the problem. He lacked a plan B, and fights slipped away from him because he was over reliant on cuteness and slickness. Against men quicker and as slick he was suffering.

I am now seeing a better and more rounded fighters. A man who leads more, negates the foe's strengths and can works harder and for longer spells. Instead of always waiting for things to happen, Nevin is making things happen. Major improvement.

BTW, one of the fights of 2012 was his QF win over Valdez. He was super there, and he was aggressive too. He led, attacked and countered. Bullied and worked Valdez for 9 minutes. That is what won him the fight, his busyness and skills. Not just his skills. He showed a complete game. Defense and attack all mixed in.

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

I think his performance against the Cuban was better. Definitely didn't "Bully" Valdez as he was running from him for the last minute with that lovly bodyshot. The issue I have with Nevin is that his style requires a lot of movement and that's very hard to sustain over 12 rounds. Sure you can say that he's proven that he can go over three rounds in the WSB but I can't help but think that someone like Sutcliffe or Valdez would wear him down in the later rounds. Maybe he'll change his style in the pro game, using his jab alot more will negate the need to be constantly moving. A serious talent and looking forward to watching his fights.

I didn't mean bullied in the sense that he was swarming him. He just stood up to him and showed Valdez that he was strong and willing to mix it if need be. He did and came out tops. He didn't let Valdez overwhelm him. vs. the Cuban he also showed a lot more volume and busyness. He took the fight to the Cuban and didn't rely on always countering. He led a fair bit in that fight. Simple; He has improved his all around game.

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

I didn't mean bullied in the sense that he was swarming him. He just stood up to him and showed Valdez that he was strong and willing to mix it if need be. He did and came out tops. He didn't let Valdez overwhelm him. vs. the Cuban he also showed a lot more volume and busyness. He took the fight to the Cuban and didn't rely on always countering. He led a fair bit in that fight. Simple; He has improved his all around game.

I strongly suggest you go back and look at those two fights.
Nevin was on the back foot for all three rounds in both fights.

megadodge

pac_man wrote: »

I think his performance against the Cuban was better. Definitely didn't "Bully" Valdez as he was running from him for the last minute with that lovly bodyshot. The issue I have with Nevin is that his style requires a lot of movement and that's very hard to sustain over 12 rounds. Sure you can say that he's proven that he can go over three rounds in the WSB but I can't help but think that someone like Sutcliffe or Valdez would wear him down in the later rounds. Maybe he'll change his style in the pro game, using his jab alot more will negate the need to be constantly moving. A serious talent and looking forward to watching his fights.

The WSB is over 5 rounds.

Sutcliffe????
Are you talking about Phil the light-welter v Nevin the bantam?

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

I strongly suggest you go back and look at those two fights.
Nevin was on the back foot for all three rounds in both fights.

I know he was on the back foot. He still gave so much. Gave more than I have ever seen him give. He was aggressive whilst under pressure. Mores so than from years gone by. That is why IMO he is a more rounded and complete fighter

Joeseph Balls

Am i missing something in the RTE quote? Its says he'll make his debut, then it says second pro fight.

Johner

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

Am i missing something in the RTE quote? Its says he'll make his debut, then it says second pro fight.

The article was from January so I think the plan was his debut in February and his second fight on Paddys Day, now it seems it will be his debut on Paddy Day.

megadodge

pac_man wrote: »

I'm well aware that the WSB is 5 rounds. I might have been grammatically incorrect but of course I meant over in the sense of > 3 rounds. Why would I mention the WSB otherwise?

Yes. And he's not a bantamweight, he's a lightweight, not a huge difference to a light-welter.

I see what you meant now about the WSB. It was just worded funny.

Nevin definitely is not a lightweight. He fought there in the WSB to accomodate another and did very well, which just shows his class. However, I can't envisage him fighting any higher than feather for his early pro years (maybe even super-bantam) and that's still a full stone lighter than Sutcliffe.

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

I know he was on the back foot. He still gave so much. Gave more than I have ever seen him give. He was aggressive whilst under pressure. Mores so than from years gone by. That is why IMO he is a more rounded and complete fighter

How can you tally agreeing with me that he was on the "back foot" for virtually the entirety of both those bouts with your earlier quotes of

“The big change was his aggression “

“He showed a more attacking game”

“He led, attacked...”

“...his QF win over Valdez. He was super there, and he was aggressive too. He led, attacked...”

“He just stood up to him and showed Valdez that he was strong and willing to mix it if need be”

“He took the fight to the Cuban”

You're contradicting yourself here.



Plus you mentioned earlier how

fights slipped away from him because he was over reliant on cuteness and slickness. Against men quicker and as slick he was suffering.

What fights exactly?

Cos, I'm really trying to recall who out there is quicker or slicker than him. In his first world semi, I thought he won, as a number of very obvious right hands he landed to the body in round 2 were never counted. Campbell, due to his disciplined tactics pipped him twice but I certainly don't think he's quicker and while he's slick I don't think he's any slicker.

walshb

You're fixated on him being on the back-foot. One of the greatest ever back-foot boxers was Pea Whitaker. He was very aggressive whilst on it. You can still lead whilst not moving forwards. You can still be aggressive whilst not pressing forward. Maybe it's just me, but I saw a big improvement in the Nevin from 2012/2011 compared to the earlier versions. I gave reasons why. And I did see several big fights where Nevin for me was pipped because he was that bit too reluctant to take the fight by the scruff. Happy to be cute and slick too much. Can I name them now? No. But I do remember watching close bouts where he was pipped, and thinking that he could have done that bit more. I have since seen "that bit more" in many recent fights., and it's made him an even better boxer.

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

You're fixated on him being on the back-foot. One of the greatest ever back-foot boxers was Pea Whitaker. He was very aggressive whilst on it. You can still lead whilst not moving forwards. You can still be aggressive whilst not pressing forward. Maybe it's just me, but I saw a big improvement in the Nevin from 2012/2011 compared to the earlier versions. I gave reasons why. And I did see several big fights where Nevin for me was pipped because he was that bit too reluctant to take the fight by the scruff. Happy to be cute and slick too much. Can I name them now? No. But I do remember watching close bouts where he was pipped, and thinking that he could have done that bit more. I have since seen "that bit more" in many recent fights., and it's made him an even better boxer.

I don't want to drag this into a battle of semantics, but your idea of aggression and everybody else's are completely different.

Ask anybody anywhere what type of a boxer Whittaker was and the word 'aggressive' is highly unlikely to be mentioned.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

I don't want to drag this into a battle of semantics, but your idea of aggression and everybody else's are completely different.

Ask anybody anywhere what type of a boxer Whittaker was and the word 'aggressive' is highly unlikely to be mentioned.

I understand that most people associate aggression with a sort of come forward in your face action style. But there is also passive aggression.

Anyway, forgetting semantics, I think JJN improved a deal in the last few years. I said why. I said what I saw. He instilled in me more confidence in the past 2 years. He seems to be a more determined and confident boxer. Really taking fights and dictating fights. More than previously. In a nutshell I will put it down to JJN being a busier busier boxer. Busier in everything, even in laying traps for his opponents. Not just busy in terms of shots thrown. Even his body language in the ring looks to be so much more aggressive and confident.

Joeseph Balls

Anyone know of a link for this fight? Sometimes the earlier fights are free online before the card goes live to TV.

h2005

Where are people watching the fight? Is it on tv or online?

Henno30

Nevin UD. 59-55 on all cards.

magma69

pac_man wrote: »

If Kavanagh continues to box the way he does in future fights, he's another knock out waiting to happen. Might be no harm moving up a weight to get more power to suit his style.

Kavanagh fought at 140 earlier in his career. There's not a whole lot he can do, the quality just isn't there unfortunately.

walshb

Nevin a clear winner against a man who hasn't fought since 2011. Nevin went for the KO with 90 percent of his shots. Did well. Lots to improve on.

His shots are little too wide for my liking. He throws wide arm shots. Not good for the pro game. He also leaves that chin far too high when he is throwing shots.

Overall a grade B-. First official pro bout.

Pros: Good shot selection
Cons. Too wide and too open when committing.

Johner

Is the fight up on YouTube or anything?

walshb

Johner wrote: »

Is the fight up on YouTube or anything?

No. BoxNation from last night.

megadodge

Saw Nevin's fight and I've got that bad feeling in my gut.

Very over-eager, reaching, loading up, trying waaaaay too hard for the KO. Unfortunately I suspect he's been told something along the lines of "this is the entertainment business, people like KOs, defensive boxing doesn't sell". Well it doesn't do Floyd Mayweather any harm.

His opponent actually wasn't too bad, very tough and kept trying to the end. Hopefully, Nevin will watch the video and learn that there's not a whole lot wrong with his style, so the doesn't need to change it too much.

On the positive side, his stamina looked very good. Was very comfortable after 6 rounds of throwing bombs.

walshb

megadodge wrote: »

On the positive side, his stamina looked very good. Was very comfortable after 6 rounds of throwing bombs.

I thought that too. Not sure it was too comfortable. I did think he looked exhausted at the end. Only to be expected considering the effort put in on most of his shots.

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

I wouldn't say he was very comfortable as he took a break in the fifth round which i think is the round all the judges gave to his opponent but he was hardly exhausted either.

Exhausted is probably too strong a word. He did seem to look jaded. Blowing hard. As I said, it's to be expected. He put in a massive power effort. He has the appearance of a big hitter, but I am not sure he packs much. You are spot on about the jab. He doesn't have a text book jab. He throws it and leans away. It's like a lot of cute and defensive fighters. The natural will to not get hit. Problem is that it leaves the chin high and exposed.

Also has a very odd 1-2. It's wild and wide. Nothing straight about it.

Henno30

I was surprised by Nevin's approach, and a little disappointed to be honest. On the one hand, he didn't stink the place out as amateur stars sometimes do when they crossover with low volume, pitty pat stuff. But he went too far in the other direction. He was loading up with everything and looked way wilder than you expect from a guy with an Olympic silver medal. Early days though.

walshb

Henno30 wrote: »

I was surprised by Nevin's approach, and a little disappointed to be honest. On the one hand, he didn't stink the place out as amateur stars sometimes do when they crossover with low volume, pitty pat stuff. But he went too far in the other direction. He was loading up with everything and looked way wilder than you expect from a guy with an Olympic silver medal. Early days though.

Think this is an accurate assessment. If you never saw him before you would probably think he was just a bit of a slugger, with no real ring generalship.