Religious obsessed by Atheism

Pherekydes

Eramen wrote: »

I don't think you understand [...]If they were diametrically opposed our civilization would've destroyed itself by now.

What happened the beards?

Huh?

Jeez, things happen way too fast around here.

One minute we're all indistinguishable from Muslims and Jews because we all wear beards, now we're twins with Christianity.

I'm confused. Tell me, am I bearded or cleanshaven?

PopePalpatine

I don't know about you guys, but I shave regularly.

Also, what's with Eramen's obsession with gamers? Did Gaben/Shigeru Miyamoto/the Houser brothers/Hideo Kojima piss on his corn flakes one day?

Turtwig

lazybones32 wrote: »

Jews, Christians and Muslims all believe in the same God but it is only the Christian religion that is parodied and mimicked. Judaism and Islam aren't as widespread as Christianity in Ireland but not elsewhere - America has a large Jewish Community as does England - but why don't the enlightened members of the Atheist Community raise their voice against the Jews and Muslims? Are they afraid of insulting these faiths; do they expect some consequence from singling-out Judaism or Islam?
We (theists), according to detractors, are all as 'mistaken' (or delusional) as each other but the atheists go after the 'big fish' first? Congratulations on the strategy and tactics employed on that one.

It is not only the Christian religion that gets parodied. Draw Muhammed day has nothing to do with Christianity. Jews get criticsed from all angles. So, the notion that Christianity is selectively targeted is cherry picked ears. Christianity is the majority religion and in Ireland, Catholicism holds all the power. Why would you piss on Islam when it's not exactly doing anything that interferes in the daily lives of a person in Ireland. Catholicism has permeated everywhere to the point that people are expected to just put up with various customs.

Anti-religious or anti-atheistic sentiment usually entails threat and action. You don't see atheists in Scandinavia acting up because there's no direct threat to their way of life. You see persecuted Christians in China acting out because their way of life and values is being directly impacted. In the U.S religious freedom is being constantly being perturbed one way or the other so you see far more vocal activists groups. In Ireland R.C.C still predominates society so you see more anti-Catholic sentiment than anything else.

Rest assured this forum is equal opportunities religious criticism however Catholicism will always be most likely to be in the spotlight because it was the Church here that covered up abused. It was the Church here that monopolies education and it's the RCC that the constitution gives privilege to.

Obliq

Eramen wrote: »

Atheist and Christian ethics/morality are very hard to distinguish between because they are almost identical, due to them being part of the same movement of civilisation. One is based off the other.. ie Platonism morphing into humanitarianism.

The problem with most people is that they see themselves and their ideas as 'new', 'different', 'unique'.. when really all these ideas and movements are a product of Western civilisation through its various stages of change. Religions, cultures, ideas don't stand still or die completely. They grow organically and eventually wilt and fade as part of the cycle of time and nature. It's like saying your genetics are completely 'new' but they aren't, they come from your parents and are the produce of many generations. Ideas are the exact same.

I'm loving how you acknowledge Christianity/Religion is an idea, grown organically (and set to wilt and fade) as part of the cycle of nature (human nature, for example). Nice one. We've been trying to tell you that - something has sunk in after all ;-)

Atheism and Christianity are blood-related and twins. If they were diametrically opposed our civilization would've destroyed itself by now.

Haa! Funny. Something, something, humans. Feed them to the lions, I say.

Eramen

Obliq wrote: »

I'm loving how you acknowledge Christianity/Religion is an idea, grown organically (and set to wilt and fade) as part of the cycle of nature (human nature, for example). Nice one. We've been trying to tell you that - something has sunk in after all ;-)

I'm not entirely sure where you're coming from when you say 'we've' and 'you'. You should remember to include atheism also as an religious/idea, as well as so much more.

Though you have taken your own meaning to what I said (which isn't a bad thing) it's of a lower quality to the original meaning.

Ideas aren't necessarily bad, they are basis for gathering information about substances so that we can compile it in the form of knowledge. The sciences are also an idea, as is history, sociology, psychology and so on. This is so because they aren't part of the properties of existence, instead they act as the interpreters of these properties of existence, which is a huge difference.

We will never be able to point to something and say, 'this is history' or 'that is science' as they are not substantial. These learned disciplines such as the sciences are merely a platform of intellectual abstraction from which we can then measure objects (the substance itself) in relation to our concept of being. This is the only way anything acquires any meaning for us. This is what is called knowledge.

But the peculiar thing is that these qualities of the universe that we deduce by abstractive reason only come to have being after this reasoning and not before, aka if something of substance is not measured (through ideas) it is therefore considered to be insubstantial. So you come to a situation today where physicists, much like the metaphysians of the past and present, say that all reality really is, is information, as our world can only be made sense of through the disciplines of ideation.

It's even thought now that time and space are qualitative, and not the basis of anything, as they are emergent from our ideas of them and are dependent on something prior to them. Check out what physicist Fotini Markopoulou has to say on the subject.

lazybones32

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

Not true at all. I see as many parodies of islam (and a lot more hatred directed towards islam and individual muslims) as I do of christianity, and while there is not as much parodying of judaism, consider the fact that everywhere (even in Israel if you include all the areas the country occupies) it is a minority and usually a tiny one.

Nearly every time I hear a commentator/politician complaining "you never see islam being mocked/parodied/complained about" it is usually a far-right one. And the other times it is a mainstream right commenator/politician cosying up to the far right readers/viewers/voters.

If there was no truth in what I wrote, you will easily be able to supply links or clips that show atheist organisations parodying and mimicking all religions and not just Christianity. I look forward to seeing this...
Jews are small in number but are you really going to argue that it has little to no influence on the World?

If you are going to reply to my posts, try not assign words that I didn't write: no-one complained that other religions weren't getting the same lash as Christians, but the point was made that Atheists campaigns parody and mimic Christian adverts. Or maybe you need to read what is written and not what you think was written? Also, trying to insult me by calling me Right or Left wing is redundant. Your attempt to insult instead of actually answering is right out of Enda's book.

robindch

Eramen wrote: »

In saying all this the ideological 'atheist' is too deeply bound within his own sub-cultural norms to go beyond the self-appraising beliefs he has borrowed from the moralists of his cause. You can't come to an impartial, birds-eye view of life with this attitude.

Honestly, it's been a while since I've seen to much verbiage deployed in the service of so little.

Turtwig

Honestly wondering if I should split this thread into a new one called:

"A treatise of ideological atheists."

lazygal

robindch wrote: »

Honestly, it's been a while since I've seen to much verbiage deployed in the service of so little.

The last John Waters article?

Turtwig

Don't be silly! Rob doesn't read those articles.

ankaragucu

I thought aetheists were people who dont believe in gods or religion.

Brian Shanahan

lazybones32 wrote: »

If there was no truth in what I wrote, you will easily be able to supply links or clips that show atheist organisations parodying and mimicking all religions and not just Christianity. I look forward to seeing this...

I'm in no mood to do anything for people who constantly try to play the victim, especially when they're so quick to try and make out others far more victimised than themselves are getting an easy ride.

To give you an example of real victimisation, in London a muslim is 20 times more likely (or more) to be stopped and searched than a white christian (it seems that the Met like stopping blacks of any persuasion as muslims), a situation which has been going on for a good number of years. Are you saying to me that somebody pointing out and using the massive inconsitencies in your religion is more discrimination than going along minding your on business only to be subjected (repeatedly over time) to a highly invasive, stressful and offensive procedure?

pauldla

Allow me to interrupt the discourse with this thought from Dara O'Briain.

feargale

pauldla wrote: »

Allow me to interrupt the discourse with this thought from Dara O'Briain.

Not convincing.

Absolam

feargale wrote: »

Not convincing.

Maybe you had to be there.

Hotblack Desiato

feargale wrote: »

Not convincing.

I re-read a thread last posted in 16 months ago for THAT?

robdonn

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I re-read a thread last posted in 16 months ago for THAT?

Haha, I did the same. I was a few posts in when I read someone say that they were embarrassed that Ireland didn't have same-sex marriage yet and only then did I check the dates of the posts!

RDM_83 again

Absolam wrote: »

Maybe you had to be there.

Too take this Zombie seriously for a second, if its Dara O'B in Ireland making that comeback its valid, if it was in London or the English middle cities not so much if he's doing a show at The Apollo the audience would probably know more Muslims than Catholics. I'm guessing Dara O'B makes his cash in the UK mainly these days in general so the "scared too/sacred cow " thing is valid.

robdonn

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Too take this Zombie seriously for a second, if its Dara O'B in Ireland making that comeback its valid, if it was in London or the English middle cities not so much if he's doing a show at The Apollo the audience would probably know more Muslims than Catholics. I'm guessing Dara O'B makes his cash in the UK mainly these days in general so the "scared too/sacred cow " thing is valid.

But whether he is scared to make those jokes or not is irrelevant in light of the actual reasons given. If he does not know enough about Islam then how is he even supposed to create jokes about it without simply appealing to stereotypes and potential factual errors.

And even if his first point about his own knowledge was invalid, his second point would still stand. Simply stating that if he is playing in London then his audience would know more Muslims than Catholics doesn't hold much water. I live in London and the general awareness of Islamic practises amongst most people does not appear to go much farther than call to prayers, Ramadan and dietary requirements.

To assume that the slightly higher proportion of Muslims in London would constitute an overall greater knowledge of specific religious practises or ideology is false.

beerbuddy

MrPudding wrote: »

You are fcuking joking, right? Have you ever walked past an abortion clinic? Have you ever walked past the gpo on a Saturday? Have you ever had a Jehovah witness at your door? Have you ever read a thread with JC on it? Have you ever been to a board of governors meeting at 98% of the primary schools in Ireland? Have you ever read any amicus briefs for any legal cases involving abortion or same sex marriage? Have you ever read any lobbying directed at the government when they are discussing same sex marriage or abortion? Have you ever read a John Water's article? Have you ever read anything published by the Iona institute?

MrP

I THINK YOU JUST PROVED HIS POINT

robdonn

beerbuddy wrote: »

I THINK YOU JUST PROVED HIS POINT

I think your CapsLock is broken.

Brian Shanahan

RDM_83 again wrote: »

if he's doing a show at The Apollo the audience would probably know more Muslims than Catholics.

No they wouldn't. There's 5.7m catholics in the UK (not counting old catholics), there's 2,786,635 muslims of all types in the UK. 5.7m is more than twice 2.7m, I'm sure you'll concede.

Not a NSA agent

Most people in the UK would be protestant. Protestants would have more of an understanding of Catholicism as they are both Christianity. You wouldnt tell a joke about someone from Cork when you are in the US but you might tell a joke about an English person.

MrPudding

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

No they wouldn't. There's 5.7m catholics in the UK (not counting old catholics), there's 2,786,635 muslims of all types in the UK. 5.7m is more than twice 2.7m, I'm sure you'll concede.

Not only that, but as pointed out above, most people don't have a clue about the religion, which makes jokes either extremely difficult to write, or simply not funny to most.

I lived next door to a muslim family for a year in Milton Keynes, they were without doubt some of the nicest people I have ever met, but I don't have a clue about their religion beyond the. Road strokes we see on TV. Not a sound basis for making jokes, or more precisely, understanding jokes that someone else makes.

MrP

RDM_83 again

robdonn wrote: »

But whether he is scared to make those jokes or not is irrelevant in light of the actual reasons given. If he does not know enough about Islam then how is he even supposed to create jokes about it without simply appealing to stereotypes and potential factual errors.

And even if his first point about his own knowledge was invalid, his second point would still stand. Simply stating that if he is playing in London then his audience would know more Muslims than Catholics doesn't hold much water. I live in London and the general awareness of Islamic practises amongst most people does not appear to go much farther than call to prayers, Ramadan and dietary requirements.

To assume that the slightly higher proportion of Muslims in London would constitute an overall greater knowledge of specific religious practises or ideology is false.

The general exposure is higher, and in general English people are pretty clueless about religion unless they are devout.

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

No they wouldn't. There's 5.7m catholics in the UK (not counting old catholics), there's 2,786,635 muslims of all types in the UK. 5.7m is more than twice 2.7m, I'm sure you'll concede.

Apollo is in London and I specifically mention the uneven distribution of British Muslims there is twice the UK average so YES they would. I'm not bashing British Muslims here by the way I'm bashing Dara O'B

robdonn

RDM_83 again wrote: »

The general exposure is higher, and in general English people are pretty clueless about religion unless they are devout.

The same can be said about most people in any country, but still doesn't help your argument.

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Apollo is in London and I specifically mention the uneven distribution of British Muslims there is twice the UK average so YES they would. I'm not bashing British Muslims here by the way I'm bashing Dara O'B

While some areas of London do have proportionately high numbers of Muslims, they are distributed very sporadically and is still very low in the view of Greater London.

wp_rathead

If you looking for a comedian that pokes fun at Islam aswell as Christianity - Tim Minchin's song "Ten Foot Cock and Few Hundred Virgins" is a decent listen

Second Toughest in_the Freshers

would British Catholics have that much in common with Irish Catholics? or Northern Irish Catholics?
There's three completely different environments when it comes to growing up in the Catholic faith

Brian Shanahan

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Apollo is in London and I specifically mention the uneven distribution of British Muslims there is twice the UK average so YES they would. I'm not bashing British Muslims here by the way I'm bashing Dara O'B

Which is absolutely pointless when trying to make a rebuttal of my shredding of your non-argument. The Apollo is a nationally known theatre with an audience from all over Britain, not the parts of London with a high predominance of muslims. You cannot extrapolate from its geographic location about what its patrons do or do not know.

feargale

Ok, I get it.
Dara O'Briain is well versed in all aspects of Christianity, the good, the bad and the ugly, which is why he does jokes about it. He is knowledgeable about Christian philosophy, theology, history, the Inquisition, the sex and other scandals, the Popes' support for some shady people such as Mr. Franco, slavery practised by Christians, and the Crusades.
He knows nothing about Islam/Muslims, the good, the bad or the ugly, nothing about the Hajj, Ramadan, Zakah, the great civilisation of Cordoba, ISIS, al-Quaeda, 9/11, the ban on women driving in Saudi Arabia, the existence of slavery in some Muslim societies, the existence in some countries of the death penalty for apostasy, or indeed the Crusades. Therefore he doesn't do Muslim jokes.

P.S. Amend that to read: But he does know enough about Muslims to know that his interrogators know nothing about them.