Peig - Irish legend or scary aul wan?

RahenyD5

I'm in my late 20s, I have yet to read her story and didn't have to study her in my leaving cert years ago. I keep seeing and hearing about Peig that she must be a legend for people of 30+ years to keep giving out about her.

Sometimes it is said that you can't be Irish and not know about Peig, the reactions and replies I came across were mostly negative, recoiling with disgust or eyes widened with fear or knowing smirks "Ye wouldn't want to go there, just don't".

There are pics of her on the web with abusive language pasted on, cartoons of her as a witch, funny T-shirts with her face etc. Some people have taken to dressing up as her for Halloween.

Was she really that bad? Was she a murderess? Burnt at the stake? If so then interesting!

This negativity just makes her intriguing and somewhat an enigma so I can't help but be fascinated to start reading her story.

What does anyone think of Peig? Is she worthwhile reading?

Poor Uncle Tom

Peig, the roide..........

gugleguy

no. Read something about War of Independence / Civil War / Irish Free State finance issue instead. If you really want to, I'm sure you can take a Ferry to the Blaskets but it might not be a good idea right now, with the weather that's in it.:D

MonstaMash

Seán Ó Súilleabháin, the former archivist for the Irish Folklore Commission, described her as "one of the greatest woman storytellers of recent times".

She was widely regarded as a seanachaí, so to her father.

RahenyD5

MonstaMash wrote: »

Seán Ó Súilleabháin, the former archivist for the Irish Folklore Commission, described her as "one of the greatest woman storytellers of recent times".

She was widely regarded as a seanachaí, so to her father.

Thanks for the info. As I'm Irish, I feel a bit bad for not knowing much about her as she is the "mother of the Irish language" I'm interested about why the wide dislike as people I've spoken to were not so positive about her.

GaelMise

Peig the Book, or Peig the person.

The book is alright (no where near as bad as a book, as its reputation would suggest)

Peig the person on the other had was supposed to be a bit of craic, a good story teller by all accounts.

MonstaMash

RahenyD5 wrote: »

Thanks for the info. As I'm Irish, I feel a bit bad for not knowing much about her as she is the "mother of the Irish language" I'm interested about why the wide dislike as people I've spoken to were not so positive about her.

Funnily enough she was illiterate as gaeilge & only spoke english :eek:

She dictated her biography to Micheál Ó Súilleabháin.

He then sent the manuscript pages to Máire Ní Chinnéide, a Dublin teacher, who edited them for publication.

She has become a cultural icon of some sort, her book has the best opening lines ever....I am an old woman now with one foot in the grave.

This topic had been done to death on boards the only thing I can remember about the book was that our Irish wasn't up to reading it fluently so you had to translate each sentence as you went and the fact that there seemed to be a terrible fear of the sea and drowning despite the fact that they lived on an island.

Wibbs

MonstaMash wrote: »

Seán Ó Súilleabháin, the former archivist for the Irish Folklore Commission, described her as "one of the greatest woman storytellers of recent times".

On one island of the Blaskets maybe and that's a big maybe. I read one gombeen comparing her to greats like Shakespeare and Flaubert. I'll have whatever he's drinking. Or maybe not...

Jesus that book was a chore, in any language. Near cover to cover Atlantic gale misery porn about people with dry stone walled faces full of cracks and damp. Putting it on the Irish language syllabus was as daft a decision as giving Buddy Holly the controls of the plane. "mother of the Irish language"? Going by her books impact on the ill will towards the language by many a student of a few generations, more like the "abortionist of the Irish language".

EDIT An Béal Bocht by O'Nolan would have been a far better bet. far better book.

GaelMise

MonstaMash wrote: »

Funnily enough she was illiterate as gaeilge & only spoke english :eek:

Am, No. She definatly spoke Irish, she was illiterate though, her son wrote the book.

Wibbs

GaelMise wrote: »

Am, No. She definatly spoke Irish, she was illiterate though, her son wrote the book.

IIRC GM she was somewhat literate in English having had some schooling in it, but illiterate in Irish?

GaelMise

Wibbs wrote: »

Jesus that book was a chore, in any language. Near cover to cover Atlantic gale misery porn about people with dry stone walled faces full of cracks and damp. Putting it on the Irish language syllabus was as daft a decision as giving Buddy Holly the controls of the plane. "mother of the Irish language"? Going by her books impact on the ill will towards the language by many a student of a few generations, more like the "abortionist of the Irish language".

The book is not all that bad, the wall to wall misery bit is a myth that blows the reality of the book out of proportion. The first half (Excluding the first page) of it is fairly upbeat even, about her life when she was young and when she went to work in Dingle.

GaelMise

Wibbs wrote: »

IIRC GM she was somewhat literate in English having had some schooling in it, but illiterate in Irish?

Its possible, I wont argue with you over it, she did learn English at school, but school did not last too long at the time.

Lu Tze

Do yerselves a favour, skip peig an pick up An t-Oileanach instead (also available in English)

MonstaMash

GaelMise wrote: »

Am, No. She definatly spoke Irish, she was illiterate though, her son wrote the book.

http://www.wikipedia.or.ke/index.php/Peig_Sayers

Lapin

Peig.

The woman who turned generations of Irish people off speaking the Irish language.

catbear

It's of interest as an account of living in an extreme environment but beyond that there's little else to recommend it.

It's inclusion in the ciriculum seemed to be for the benefit of peasent folk.

Wibbs

GaelMise wrote: »

The book is not all that bad, the wall to wall misery bit is a myth that blows the reality of the book out of proportion. The first half (Excluding the first page) of it is fairly upbeat even, about her life when she was young and when she went to work in Dingle.

Fairly upbeat depending on personal taste, but meandering ever downward with time. You'd not be reading it for laughs that's for sure. Nor for much on human insight either. You'd get more insight into the human condition from reading one page written by a Northern English bloke about an invented Danish prince than you'd get from that entire book. An Béal Bocht on the other hand has some real depth to it and while I'm quite sure some of it gets lost in translation, the main vein remains and I would suspect would in any language. Maybe because Peig is an oral story transcribed, whereas ABB is a book from the outset so the style is what gets in the way? By all accounts she was gangbusters with a story from her own lips.

oldyouth

Depressing old bint that made my life a misery

I think it is interesting to contemplate how despite the circumstance of the poverty they lived in and having almost nothing compared to what we have, people still lived, thrived, and survived, fell in love, had family's and go on fine with life for the most part ( if you ignore the emigration bit )

MonkeyTennis

Just wait for the movie to come out. Megan Fox plays herslef.


In a world, where falling over cliffs was a daily occurence, one woman..

Wibbs

Lu Tze wrote: »

Do yerselves a favour, skip peig an pick up An t-Oileanach instead (also available in English)

Yet another better bet.

orangesoda

I never heard of her in my 5 years of learning the language, some old kerry storyteller so wikipedia tells me

Monkeybonkers

My favourite part was when

one of her husbands/brother was pulling heather right at the very edge of the
cliff. Instead of turning his back towards the land he pulled away with his back
facing the cliff edge. Naturally, he fell to his death when a clump of the
heather came up a bit easier than he expected.

There's something Simpsonesque about the whole scene.

BlaasForRafa

Quite possibly the most hated woman amongst a generation of people who were forced to learn the language. I'd rather chop off my foot with a rusty hacksaw than have to suffer that damn book again.

She was such a miserable old cow that I'm not surprised her sons kept throwing themselves off of cliffs.

Donkey Oaty

oldyouth wrote: »

Depressing old bint that made my life a misery

Lapin wrote: »

The woman who turned generations of Irish people off speaking the Irish language.

Wibbs wrote: »

Jesus that book was a chore, in any language.

All future editions of Peig should have these quotes on the cover.

Donkey Oaty

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Quite possibly the most hated woman amongst a generation of people who were forced to learn the language. I'd rather chop off my foot with a rusty hacksaw than have to suffer that damn book again.

She was such a miserable old cow that I'm not surprised her sons kept throwing themselves off of cliffs.

Especially that one.

LordSutch

RahenyD5 wrote: »

What does anyone think of Peig? Is she worthwhile reading?

Personally responsible for the genocide of the Irish language in the modern day! (along with the cumpulsory teaching of the language).

Several generations now despise the Irish langauge, mainly because of that aul blasket island biddy and her black & white ramblings. Dull as dishwater and guaranteed to turn everybody off Irish for life, and that's exactly what happened. Long gone from the curriculum thank God.

PS; No doubt a lovely old lady in real life, but not the best way to sell the Irish language . . .

sinead88

I've always been curious about Peig as well. We did "An Triail" by Máiréad Ní Ghráda in Irish instead. Probably equally depressing really!

RahenyD5

Thanks for all the amusing replies, have to say the "horror stories" people come up with, having studied Peig in school, are entertaining.

Just found out on Wikipedia that the Norse meaning for the Blasket Islands is "brasker", therefore means "dangerous place" - well, it would be with people falling off the cliffs :eek:

WilyCoyote

Some years ago in the UK, Irish Gaelic was awarded ethnic status. A London wag effused that "after 800 years of British Imperialism in old Ireland, Irish culture strikes back - by inflicting Peig on the GCSE".

whisky_galore

Couldn't we have had an Irish language curriculum with Cuchulainn or one of them lads chopping heads off and slashing through foes?
That'd be the job, instead of a dirge about an oul wan stuck out in the ar*e end of nowhere.

Gran Hermano

whisky_galore wrote: »

Couldn't we have had an Irish language curriculum with Cuchulainn or one of them lads chopping heads off and slashing through foes?
That'd be the job, instead of a dirge about an oul wan stuck out in the ar*e end of nowhere.

You means something like Tóraíocht Dhiarmada agus Gráinne which was also an option when I was studying Irish for the LC.

whisky_galore

Gran Hermano wrote: »

You means something like Tóraíocht Dhiarmada agus Gráinne which was also an option when I was studying Irish for the LC.

Never had that option, only spent what seemed like an eternity learning off the Thistle Guinea-Duck...whatever that was.

TheDriver

Anyone remember the peig cartoon on Sean moncrief the end 1995/1996, was very funny and pure pi#s take

WilyCoyote

TheDriver wrote: »

Anyone remember the peig cartoon on Sean moncrief the end 1995/1996, was very funny and pure pi#s take

The one where she was using a dildo made from bogdeal?

TheDriver

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jrk8y8HSjRk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrBTWFBUeKE

Humongus the pig and her friend Cait Jim....

sopretty

I found her to be very outspoken for her age. She had to live with the mother-in-law and made no bones about making her view on that particular situation very clear. She appears to have been full of divilment in her youth. Her life was filled with tragedy after tragedy. She seems to be able to objectively comment on the social customs of the times though such as the 'caoinains' (spelling probably incorrect), but they were almost 'mourners for hire'. Her biography is a historical documentation of life on the islands and the culture at the time. There was bouldness in her for sure!

Galwayguy35

I have the same view on her and her book that I had at 16 when I first heard of her.

A miserable long dead ould biddy who had a depressing life (many people had it tough, lifes a bitch sometimes) and decided to write a book about it, it should have been left at that but some fool decided to inflict this torture on generations of young people doing the Leaving Cert.

Between that and having to learn a rake of boring poems put me off Irish for life.

Wibbs

sopretty wrote: »

I found her to be very outspoken for her age. She had to live with the mother-in-law and made no bones about making her view on that particular situation very clear. She appears to have been full of divilment in her youth. Her life was filled with tragedy after tragedy. She seems to be able to objectively comment on the social customs of the times though such as the 'caoinains' (spelling probably incorrect), but they were almost 'mourners for hire'. Her biography is a historical documentation of life on the islands and the culture at the time. There was bouldness in her for sure!

And all about as relevant to modern Ireland as a flint handaxe. Given I was first exposed to this back in the dark ages with no interweb, one TV channel(unless you had "the piped TV" in a city), it shows how alien for the vast majority of Irish people it had become. Sadly it brought the language itself into that feeling of alien and irrelevant for too many.

Add in little in the way of deeper musings on the human condition and you've got a painful dirge to be suffered. Plus she wasn't outspoken. The idea that women of her time couldn't speak up, or were excused of divilment is a cliche and an inaccurate one. If anything such societies were matriarchal in many ways.

super_furry

Peig is personally responsible for much of the hatred of the Irish language.

gimli2112

Monkeybonkers wrote: »

My favourite part was when

one of her husbands/brother was pulling heather right at the very edge of the
cliff. Instead of turning his back towards the land he pulled away with his back
facing the cliff edge. Naturally, he fell to his death when a clump of the
heather came up a bit easier than he expected.

There's something Simpsonesque about the whole scene.

The bit I remember (and it's a long time ago since I read it) was

her son out playing and he fell off a cliff, to his death

It was dealt with very quickly and she never mentioned him again.
Must have been considered a normal enough occurence on the islands?

whisky_galore

gimli2112 wrote: »

The bit I remember (and it's a long time ago since I read it) was

her son out playing and he fell off a cliff, to his death

It was dealt with very quickly and she never mentioned him again.
Must have been considered a normal enough occurence on the islands?

Small offshore islands with a high occurrance of inbreeding, quite likely.

Pumpkinseeds

Oh, how I hated that woman when I was doing my Leaving Cert in 91. Dreary days in a class room with a dreary teacher who'd taught it a million times over and had no love of it herself.

jimgoose

Peig Sayers: Born in the arsehole of Kerry, married a fisherman and went to the Great Blasket instead of America, had eleven children, lived a very Irish Catholic life filled with drudgery, tragedy and grinding poverty, eventually went back to the arsehole of Kerry and died.

There. Now you don't have to be bored quite rigid reading the wretched thing.

sopretty

Y'all must have had very unenthusiastic Irish teachers! Did all of you just struggle through the Irish text or did you read the English translation?

sopretty

I actually really loved the book. I think that Peig had an acceptance of life's tragedies. Perhaps that was their way of coping with death. There was no such thing as bereavement counselling etc. There was a particular culture surrounding death though. More of an acceptance of it than we have now. If I recall correctly, she does display anger at the sea for taking so many people from her life. I suspect such feelings were not encouraged at the time. They had a different support structure around bereavement at that time.
I feel like such a nerd to be the lone voice in the wilderness who actually enjoyed the book.
Then again, I also enjoyed Hard Times by Dickens haha, so perhaps my taste in literature is questionable!

Flaker

Didn't her cow get stung by a wasp or something and fall in the ditch and die?

That's all remember from the book cos I've blocked the rest out.

That and "I've one foot in the grave and the other one the edge..."

super_furry

sopretty wrote: »

Y'all must have had very unenthusiastic Irish teachers!

Didn't everyone?

DyldeBrill

I'd say most of the abuse came from past students who were made read through it until it was bet into their heads. How can someone take enjoyment from anything if they are force fed it without being introduced to the story itself in a proper manner.

Same goes for Irish stories such as An Triail, and Dúnmharú ar an Dart(absolute classic). Some of these are actually quite interesting, only thing is they were ruined by teachers who showed little enthusiasm about them in the first place.

sopretty

I'm suddenly starting to feel I had a gem of an Irish teacher!