E-cig use / vaping in the workplace?

grindle

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Yes there is. Its increases your heart rate, few beats per minute. There is also some evidence it may have other negative circulatory effects. It is dangerous to intake during pregnancy and It is highly addictive with its withdrawal symptoms being fairly common knowledge. While these may not warrant severe negatives to you or some people, they are negative none the less.

Cheese, tuna and pâté have to be avoided by pregnant ladies too. Madness, you'd swear the ladies were in a delicate condition or somethi...oh, wait...

Temporary increase in heart rate and constriction of vessels. Madness, you'd swear nicotine was a stimula...oh, wait...
People with excess heart problems or anxiety disorders should stay away from nicotine just as if it were caffeine or monosodium glutamate.
Again, people in delicate conditions. No indication of long-term harm from nicotine for the average person.

The withdrawal symptoms of nicotine have been exaggerated because nicotine has always been delivered in cigarettes with ingredients specifically selected to increase the uptake of nicotine and the other alkaloids acting as MAOI/anti-depressants. Age-old common knowledge is being challenged these days and most nicotine experts are gravitating towards nicotine not being as addictive outside of cigarettes. Not to say it isn't addictive at all - every stimulant performs as a psychological reward and has potential for addiction. Rewards can be that way.
The fact that plenty of (most? Everyone I know did anyway) ecig users get withdrawal symptoms despite plying themselves with nicotine should be a clue that something is being "missed" besides nicotine.
I certainly miss the relaxing effect of cigarettes which can apparently be partly gotten by vaping WTA juices [Whole Tobacco Alkaloids] but it's way too expensive and if the extra alkaloids are the missing link for that extra high and lead towards even half the cravings and subsequent satisfying reward, rinse, repeat... I'm not sure I'd want to try them. Mostly because that would lead to more expense. The addiction I wouldn't mind so much because I'll be vaping either way.

robbie02

back to the topic. i vape in my office, was unsure at first, but then i realize why should i treat this like a smoking habit because it is not. i do have respect for my work mates in that i dont exhale massive plumes of vapor and discreetly vape, stealth vaping i think it is called. no one has had a problem with me vaping and in fact some have come up to me asking advice of geting e cigs for their friends or family who are worried about their health. if someone complained to me about it i would have to stop, but i wouldnt be too happy about it, its only a bit of vapor at the end of the day and the ones that do complain about it are have the "people fear what they do not know syndrome". no one has complained here though and they would if they didnt like it hats for sure. and besides my company probably gets an extra hour a day productivity out of me from not going outside smoking.

Nuttzz

tommy2bad wrote: »

Whats the rational for this? Curious why you would class it as smoking when you are aware that it isn't. Do you have a policy on perfume or eating at desks as well?

Ecigs contain nicotine and I've no idea what they are emitting in the vapour due to the unregulated nature of the products. Ive no doubt there are some excellent products that have safe emissions but I'm sure there as some that are just thrown together and who knows what is coming out with them.

We encourage people lunch away from their desks, I like to create a difference between work space and rest space, if someone is eating at their desk then a colleague is more likely to interrupt them with a work issue

No issue with perfume it doesnt have the potential to emit nicotine

working fool

I had a guy travel with me a few days recently in the cab of the truck

He said it was perfectly harmless
By the second day I had a very sore throat and felt very unwell

grindle

Nuttzz wrote: »

Ecigs contain nicotine and I've no idea what they are emitting in the vapour due to the unregulated nature of the products. Ive no doubt there are some excellent products that have safe emissions but I'm sure there as some that are just thrown together and who knows what is coming out with them.

They're not unregulated. They're not medicinally regulated. Honestly, genuine chore every time this gets trotted out. They're currently covered by food safety standards. If the FSAI aren't doing their job to your standards you should question their practices, not the practices of eliquid manufacturers. They're supposed to be our "safeguard".
There's already been tests on emissions using named and no-name brands - all emissions were considered safe by health & safety workplace standards.
You can read a large number of studies about the composition of vapour nowadays, and the implication that companies might be filling their eliquid with some sort of dangerous bulking agent when the base ingredients are already cheap bulking agents & work safely seems like hysteria to me.
The Golden Age of the Daily Mail.

Nuttzz wrote: »

No issue with perfume it doesnt have the potential to emit nicotine

It took five hours for five vapers in a small room to match the amount of nicotine in an aubergine, and that was presuming the worst case scenario because the levels of nicotine were so low as to be undetectable.
Couple that with nicotine having the same safety and addiction profile as caffeine and your concerns about emissions look wobbly.

Just so you know for your own safety - plenty of perfumes contain "safe" levels of known carcinogens. Perfumes are also a well-known trigger for asthma. How can you take that risk!!!?

working fool wrote: »

I had a guy travel with me a few days recently in the cab of the truck

He said it was perfectly harmless
By the second day I had a very sore throat and felt very unwell

The second day of him using it? I'd lay a large amount of money on the likelihood being the chance occurrence of a sore throat/flu rather than the ecig. The former is much more likely.
You may have an allergy or intolerance to one of the chemicals in the ecig, which is a known issue for some... A sore throat/flu is still more likely than that.

Nuttzz

grindle wrote: »

Just so you know for your own safety - plenty of perfumes contain "safe" levels of known carcinogens. Perfumes are also a well-known trigger for asthma. How can you take that risk!!!?

I'm an asthmatic 40 years and perfumes have never given me a bit of bother I cannot say that for nicotine related products.

They're not unregulated. They're not medicinally regulated. Honestly, genuine chore every time this gets trotted out. They're currently covered by food safety standards. If the FSAI aren't doing their job to your standards you should question their practices, not the practices of eliquid manufacturers. They're supposed to be our "safeguard".

Not sure how the FSAI would vet the refills being sold on ebay etc

Im sure there are plenty of reputable vaping companies who can see the long term in their business, but just in the way there are counterfeit cigarettes it would be extremely naive to think there isnt counterfeit/poor quality eliquids being produced.

grindle

Nuttzz wrote: »

I'm an asthmatic 40 years and perfumes have never given me a bit of bother I cannot say that for nicotine related products.

So as long as some other asthma sufferer could be affected, but not you, that's grand. Okay.
Were these nicotine related products cigarettes? Asthma and smoke aren't great buddies.

Nuttzz wrote: »

Not sure how the FSAI would vet the refills being sold on ebay etc

Im sure there are plenty of reputable vaping companies who can see the long term in their business, but just in the way there are counterfeit cigarettes it would be extremely naive to think there isnt counterfeit/poor quality eliquids being produced.

There are indeed - they're called Dekang and Hangsen and they're all above board and made in high-spec facilities.
Besides making it yourself I can't see how anything remotely vapable could be made for a lower price to the consumer, so counterfeiting is pointless. What could they bulk it out with besides PG and VG that wouldn't affect either the taste or the device's performance?

tommy2bad

Nuttzz wrote: »

Ecigs contain nicotine and I've no idea what they are emitting in the vapour due to the unregulated nature of the products. Ive no doubt there are some excellent products that have safe emissions but I'm sure there as some that are just thrown together and who knows what is coming out with them.

We encourage people lunch away from their desks, I like to create a difference between work space and rest space, if someone is eating at their desk then a colleague is more likely to interrupt them with a work issue

No issue with perfume it doesnt have the potential to emit nicotine

Whats the problem with nicotine> you ingest nicotine everyday, in fact you cant without nicotine you will die.
Sorry to say regulations won't address any of your concerns, any regs we get will be about packaging, advertising and public use. Theirs no mention in the proposed TPD as to what limits or recommendation on contaminants. So as to 'we don't know what's in them' regs wont help. They are already regulated at to what's in them anyway, it the fudge of enforcement that's the problem.

I'll give you the point about work/rest separation but I really don't like the way you are saying that limiting someone is for their benefit. It' should be their choice.
Again perfumes don't emit nicotine? I would hope so but they do emit carcinogens. As dose plywood varnish airfreshners and believe it or not almost everything we breath in. The idea that their is some wondrous substance that isn't contaminated or produced in such a way as to not produce contamination as a byproduct of it use is nonsense.

You constant referencing nicotine is a non point as nicotine is unavoidable.

Nuttzz

tommy2bad wrote: »

They are already regulated at to what's in them anyway, it the fudge of enforcement that's the problem.

Any employer I asked (and I'm one myself) is unsure of the regulations surrounding them in the workplace. most thought they are like regular cigarettes and illegal.

Could we fall foul of the smoking ban? Probably not but why take the risk if an other employee complains? Last thing I need is a waste of time visit from the NOTC.

Even the name e-cigarettes does nothing to promote the idea that they are legal to have in the workplace.

grindle

Now... I don't mind the idea of employers not allowing vaping if you have to appear to be "professional" or if on a shop floor, but:

Nuttzz wrote: »

Could we fall foul of the smoking ban? Probably not but why take the risk if an other employee complains?

No you couldn't, and there is 100% zero risk of it, although an employee may complain. Such is futility.
Until there is legislation brought in about ecigs they're as legally ambiguous as an ice-cream, i.e. not at all ambiguous. They're allowed until someone inexplicably says they aren't.

tommy2bad

Nuttzz wrote: »

Any employer I asked (and I'm one myself) is unsure of the regulations surrounding them in the workplace. most thought they are like regular cigarettes and illegal.

Could we fall foul of the smoking ban? Probably not but why take the risk if an other employee complains? Last thing I need is a waste of time visit from the NOTC.

Even the name e-cigarettes does nothing to promote the idea that they are legal to have in the workplace.

Simple enquiry would answer this, email or phone call to the relevant authority. In fact I'll save you the trouble, http://www.sfa.ie/Sectors/SFA/SFA.nsf/vPages/Advice~HR_and_Employment_Law~electronic-cigarettes-in-the-workplace-25-02-2013?OpenDocument
Notice the fudge in the wording. The fact is that vapor is not smoke as defined in the legislation covering workplace smoking bans.
To avoid complaints from employees all you need to do is stick a fer posters up where the no smoking ones are stating the policy. Simples.
Whats needed is comunication, both from employers to empployies and from the departments to employers. You cant do everything but comunicating to your employies is so easy I cant understand why you don't do it instead of taking the easy rout and banning them. Peoples health is at stake, I'd hate to see you sued for forcing non smokers to stand in a designated smoking area!
Heres what ASH UK have to say.
http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_900.pdf

Saggyjocks

I always vape at my desk, I work in a fairly small office space. In my workplace smoke breaks were always frowned upon so I think when I switched to vaping my boss may have actually been a bit relieved! I get the odd comment from him in a jokey manner, he'll say you know some day they'll prove them things are worse then cigarettes and you know them things are going to be banned soon but I really dont think he means anything by it, I've asked him plenty of times does he mind and hes always said no. No one else I work with has ever said anything about the smell if I'm at a desk behind them the only time they'll notice is when they see a bit of a cloud and they seem to find it amusing. I do genuinely believe that if anyone I work with had a problem with it they wouldn't be one bit shy about saying it straight to me and if they did then of course I'd have to cut back and move outside or to another area to do it.

tommy2bad

Saggyjocks wrote: »

I always vape at my desk, I work in a fairly small office space. In my workplace smoke breaks were always frowned upon so I think when I switched to vaping my boss may have actually been a bit relieved! I get the odd comment from him in a jokey manner, he'll say you know some day they'll prove them things are worse then cigarettes and you know them things are going to be banned soon but I really dont think he means anything by it, I've asked him plenty of times does he mind and hes always said no. No one else I work with has ever said anything about the smell if I'm at a desk behind them the only time they'll notice is when they see a bit of a cloud and they seem to find it amusing. I do genuinely believe that if anyone I work with had a problem with it they wouldn't be one bit shy about saying it straight to me and if they did then of course I'd have to cut back and move outside or to another area to do it.

This is Ireland, one thing we don't do is 'straight'. We go behind backs and bitch about stuff to people who have no interest in whatever were bitching about.

Saggyjocks

tommy2bad wrote: »

This is Ireland, one thing we don't do is 'straight'. We go behind backs and bitch about stuff to people who have no interest in whatever were bitching about.

Fair point, I won't argue that they'd never bitch about it that's probably a bit naive but if they did have a problem I would hope they'd say it and I have asked them but then again that's all I can do really

working fool

grindle wrote: »

They're not unregulated. They're not medicinally regulated. Honestly, genuine chore every time this gets trotted out. They're currently covered by food safety standards. If the FSAI aren't doing their job to your standards you should question their practices, not the practices of eliquid manufacturers. They're supposed to be our "safeguard".
There's already been tests on emissions using named and no-name brands - all emissions were considered safe by health & safety workplace standards.
You can read a large number of studies about the composition of vapour nowadays, and the implication that companies might be filling their eliquid with some sort of dangerous bulking agent when the base ingredients are already cheap bulking agents & work safely seems like hysteria to me.
The Golden Age of the Daily Mail.


It took five hours for five vapers in a small room to match the amount of nicotine in an aubergine, and that was presuming the worst case scenario because the levels of nicotine were so low as to be undetectable.
Couple that with nicotine having the same safety and addiction profile as caffeine and your concerns about emissions look wobbly.

Just so you know for your own safety - plenty of perfumes contain "safe" levels of known carcinogens. Perfumes are also a well-known trigger for asthma. How can you take that risk!!!?



The second day of him using it? I'd lay a large amount of money on the likelihood being the chance occurrence of a sore throat/flu rather than the ecig. The former is much more likely.
You may have an allergy or intolerance to one of the chemicals in the ecig, which is a known issue for some... A sore throat/flu is still more likely than that.

Well I didn't feel that well after the first day
But by the second it was unbearable

Had to take the third day off
Couple of hours at home I was fine

And yes I do suffer from asthma
I never have had a reaction without being in contact with cigarettes and now e- cigarettes

daveyboynire

At work I vape in the toilet, I know if my boss new these things existed he would ban them, thats the type of hateful $hit he is so I just do it in the toilet not to give him the satisfaction.

Spanish Eyes

daveyboynire wrote: »

At work I vape in the toilet, I know if my boss new these things existed he would ban them, thats the type of hateful $hit he is so I just do it in the toilet not to give him the satisfaction.

And there I was thinking people only peed or ??? In the toilet. I have a lot to learn!

So there is a third thing? :eek:

grindle

It's even got it's own term - 'vooping'.

All the rage apparently.

Pique

Better than the noxious gasses normally in there!

MayoSalmon

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMdKguVbpfI