Beginner quadcopter

jozi

I've been interested in getting one of these for some time but I don't know much about them and think it's probably best I got something cheap that I can crash lots while learning to control and not be to concerned about damaging a 400e quad.

From looking around I've seen these mentioned a few times:

http://www.banggood.com/Wholesale-WLtoys-V929-Beetle-4-Axis-Quadcopter-UFO-RTF%28Mode-2%29-+-2-Extra-Batteries-+-Extra-Blade-Set-p-50090.html

http://www.banggood.com/New-Version-Upgraded-Hubsan-X4-H107-2_4G-4CH-Remote-Control-RC-Quadcopter-p-71838.html

But I think I would rather a mini quad over one of these tiny ones, this ones I've seen mentioned a few places:

http://www.banggood.com/Wholesale-Syma-X1-Series-2_4G-4CH-4-Aixs-RC-BumbleBee-UFO-Micro-Quadcopter-p-48760.html

This ones a little more expensive but has a cam, which might be kinda cool and I can actually collect it from an Irish shop (more expensive though).
http://www.banggood.com/UDI-U818A-2_4G-4CH-6-Axis-RC-Quadcopter-With-Camera-RTF-Mode-2-p-73065.html

Anyone able to point me towards something reasonably decent for well under 100e that will suit a beginner?

I have the Hubsan X4 X107L, they're fantastic for the money.

I don't have the other ones to compare but at this time of the year and especially with the wind you'll probably get more mileage from a micro quad like the Hubsan.

pullandbang

Those cheap ones are the right way to start as you'll not lose too much money when you crash and wreck it!

I'd say the camera quality on the dearer one would be pretty poor but again it's not too expensive and is a cheap way to learn.

If you could stretch the budget in the future you should consider the DJI Phantom which is pretty awesome. It will carry a gopro and if you set it up right you can achieve some really professional aerial footage.

I recently got my hands on one (which I've crashed many times but it's still going) and am patiently waiting for this weather to improve to get back out with it.

You can read my piece on it on my blog - http://allseeing.me/dji-phantom-my-first-impressions/

jozi

I didn't consider the weather, a smaller one would get more use being able to fly it indoors.

The DJI looks great but it's about 4-5x more than what I'm willing to pay. I really want a cheapy one for practice and if I didn't really like it I've only spent a few quid. I can see myself buying/building something in future though that will hold something like a gopro

The video quality is pretty poor being 640x800 or something but I have some idea's in my head that this might work with as practice.

---edit---

The Hubsan X4 X107L is the one I would prob go for if I went micro. I just can't decide on micro or mini

civdef

The smaller and lighter the better when starting off, you can use them indoors so you get practice in when weather is crap - i.e. 90% of the time around now.
The other big advantage is the small ones just don't get damaged as easily, they're light, so have less kinetic energy / momentum to dump in a crash = less damage. It really takes an awful lot of work to break these yokes, and when it happens parts are very cheap and available.

The V929 is very hard to beat. (It also is compatible with the Turnigh 9x radio, which could be handy of you wanted to get a "proper" radio to start off with - the one that comes with the V929 or any of these small quads works fine, but is a bit toy-like in some respects).

jozi

I think I might be conviced to go for a micro quad.

It's prob a little more expensive but I might buy from here along with some spare batteries and props to keep me going. Anyone got any experience with that uk shop? How long does it normally take for them to come from China?


Also found a few threads on rcgroups to tweak/improve it and it gets plenty of praise there to.

civdef

3-4 weeks from China normally, but this is Chinese New Year now, so add about 2 weeks.

wideangle

I won one of these on ebay:http://www.ebay.ie/itm/RC-2-4-Ghz-Quadrocopter-G-MAX-860-ferngesteuerter-Hubschrauber-Quadcopter-LCD-/390757955402?pt=DE_Allesf%C3%BCrKind_Spielzeug_FerngesteuertesSpielzeug&hash=item5afafd374a
Came to 58 euro including delivery too the door,highly recommended and it lifts my go pro mark one without the casing mounted via cable ties

The charger has the European plug but a shaver adapter does the trick.

I bought my X4 and a few other things from Banggood, I would say about 3 weeks on average. The main reason I used them was free shipping for any size order. Even if you want a pack of props or something for €1.50, free shipping.

It's probably worth paying a premium to get it from a UK/Irish shop right now due to the Chinese new years holidays. Just be aware that some 'local' online stores are drop-shippers so it'd be coming from China anyway.

If you get the X4 I would consider the prop guard for when you use it indoors. They're only about €2.30 on BG. If you crash into a wall without it you'll chip the rotors fairly quickly. It does reduce flight time by about 30-45 sec so you'd probably want to take it off once you get past the beginner phase but up to that point it'll really save props and motors.

jozi

wideangle wrote: »

I won one of these on ebay:http://www.ebay.ie/itm/RC-2-4-Ghz-Quadrocopter-G-MAX-860-ferngesteuerter-Hubschrauber-Quadcopter-LCD-/390757955402?pt=DE_Allesf%C3%BCrKind_Spielzeug_FerngesteuertesSpielzeug&hash=item5afafd374a
Came to 58 euro including delivery too the door,highly recommended and it lifts my go pro mark one without the casing mounted via cable ties

The charger has the European plug but a shaver adapter does the trick.

Quick bit of googling and apparently here thinks its the same as this one with a different canopy: http://www.whichhobbystore.com/p/128711/Models_-_Kits/Multi_Rotors/Multi_Rotors/HJ_Toys_V998_Mini_Pet_4CH_2.4Ghz_6-Axis_RTF_QuadCopter__UFO_#ad-image-0


I'd never heard of BG but it seems to be the place to go for them and spare parts. I'll prob go for the one from the Uk or in the Eu anyway with some spares.

jozi

Just ordered the hubsan x4 with a spare set of rotors, 2x extra batteries + charger and the tool to replace the rotors.

I've been reading about balancing the rotors, is this something that needs doing or just something worth doing?

Where do I go for useful tips on how to fly these things?

damned_junkie

I've only been flying multirotors for about a year (home built tricopter and a DJI F550) but I've found that prop balancing can be extremely important. On my tri a badly balanced prop can cause it to be extremely unstable. At this stage I can spot a badly balanced prop fairly quickly and fix it by whacking on a bit of tape, trying it again, moving the tape, trying again, rinse repeat etc.

Personally I'd try it out without any balancing and if it seems unstable then I'd try out some balancing.

One approach that helped me understand the notion of prop balancing was to use a vibration meter app on my phone. You stick the phone to the aircraft, remove all but one prop, rev it up a bit and check the vibration reading. With a bit of experimentation (like intentionally unbalancing the prop) you'll start to get a feel for what an out of balance prop sounds like.

Oh and let us know how you get on with the Hubsan, I'm tempted to get a mini quad for indoors, not much opportunity for flying this weather!

jozi

jozi wrote: »

Where do I go for useful tips on how to fly these things?

There's dual modes on the controller (normal and expert). Stay in normal while you're learning the basics. It's 50% rates by default and I would actually bring the cyclic controls down to 45 or 40 for your first couple of flights.

Make sure it's on a level surface when you plug in the battery so the gyro is calibrated properly.

Kill the throttle if you think you're about to crash, it will minimise damage to the props and motors. This is why I recommend prop guard for indoors, you can bump into a wall and keep flying.

Stop flying as soon as you get the low voltage warning (it flashes the lights). If you run lipo batteries too low they'll stop holding a charge.

Give the motors time to cool down between flights to prolong their life. Brushed motors will die eventually anyway, ive replaced 2 so far on my X4s.

The controller comes in mode 1 and mode 2 versions. Check which one your store is offering, make sure to get mode 2.

jozi

I got it from here, no mention about it being mode 1 or 2: http://www.arrowmodels.com/hubsan-x4-led-mini-quad-copter-rtf-latest-version-with-2-battery-packs

And I just noticed they are releasing a package with spare bats, rotors and a guard this month, that wasn't there last night or I would have got it!

It's 50% rates by default and I would actually bring the cyclic controls down to 45 or 40 for your first couple of flights.

I have no idea what this means but I'm sure I'll find out once I get it and do a little more reading up on it.

damned_junkie: Got a link to the app? Sound like it might come in handy

I've a few tabs open in my browser from rcgroups that I'll need to read up on aver the next week or so.

The Doktor

the rates thing is just how sensitive the controls are. Youll be grand with the way its set up out of the box, just take your time.

It defaults to 50% when its powered up (half sensitivity). You press the right hand control stick to make it go to 100%.
I reckon after 5 or 6 flights I was doing flips with it.

Ive the one with the camera, videos arent too bad when the light is good.

Best 50 euro I ever spent!

Great for flying at night too, and its not bad in quite a brisk wind.

On a cold night I fire it out the bedroom window and fly from indoors...

jozi

What should the sensitivity be at once you get used to flying?

Is the range any good on them? Says 100m but I imagine you can't even see it before its out of range?

jozi

I was also looking at this one: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1885026&highlight=pocket+micro

But I decided I don't understand half of what is needed yet and that I'm better of with one rft. I can see myself building one though if this hubsan works well for me.

jozi

jozi wrote: »

What should the sensitivity be at once you get used to flying?

Is the range any good on them? Says 100m but I imagine you can't even see it before its out of range?

Higher sensitivy lets you fly faster and more aggressively. But it'll respond much quicker to small movements so precision flying (under chair legs etc) is more difficult. You pretty much need full rates if you're flying outdoors, so you can fight the wind if you need to. But you might find full rates tricky indoors, especially as a beginner.

Both modes can be edited so it's just preference. I think I have my normal mode on 75 all round and expert 100 all round.

It's actually pretty nice to have configurable rates on a €30 quad.

jozi

Sounds good. I'll keep them stock or as above for indoors for the time being. Was hoping the tracking would work today but it doesnt and I've no idea if it's been sent, hopefulyl it comes this week though!

jozi

It just landed, it's tiny! I got it with 3 batteries, all 3 were nearly dead before I could even get it of the ground.

I need more space as well in my room to fly! It's drifting a tiny bit but I think I fixed that using a sheet of paper. Just waiting for batteries to be fully charged now.

jozi

And I lost it

Went outside so I'd have more room, it went up, then away, then I couldn't get it to come back and then I couldn't see it anymore :mad:

LOL, sorry to hear that. Using it outside with no experience on a wet/windy day probably wasn't the best idea :pac: If it's any consolation, you're not the first person to lose a heli on the first go, youtube is full of funny videos of this happening.

Look at it this way: it's better to make these kind of mistakes with cheap quads & helis rather than something costing a couple of hundred. You can get a BNF from Banggood for €25, it comes with everything except the tx.

Ideally you need to spend hours just practicing hovering in every orientation (tail in, nose in, both sides) indoors before picking up any speed or flying it at a distance.

If you've never flown a heli before you'll mix up your left/right when it's facing you and you can get out of shape or lose the quad real fast.

With any kind of wind you're going to be constantly fighting it and making different adjustments depending on whether you're flying into it or away. Your orientation flying needs to be second nature. I wouldn't even think about going fast, far or high outdoors until you can fly it in every orientation comfortably.

Also the lights may still be on depending on how much battery was left. Im not sure how long they stay on. As it gets dark and you may have a better chance of finding it.

jozi

I've been looking on BG already. For 33 I can get one with 5x extra batteries that are 370ma. I wonder do the larger battery effect how it flies other than being able to fly longer?

Pretty gutted tbh that I lost it but it was my own fault. I gave a bit to much throttle, didn't want to let it crash on the house so tried to get it to fly back to me, instead it went further or maybe the wind caught it as it didnt seem to respond at all so I killed the throttle when I couldn't really see it any more

It's a few hrs ago now. Battery was wasn't long on the charger but it had a green light (I got a little dual charger) so I assume it was full. How long would it stay on with no throttle or other inputs?

I stuppidly turned of the tx before looking for it, I decided to cut my loses before actually going for a proper look for it in the field.

For the next one, when ever that arrives, I'll be going to a nearby football pitch!

Im not sure, LEDs don't use much power so it may be still on. I couldn't tell you how long they stay on. But they do stay on even after losing tx contact. THe only thing is that your tx won't rebind so it's not like you can go around giving it throttle trying to hear it. But if the LEDs are on you'll see it a mile off in the dark, it's worth a shot looking for it now if you can.

I don't use larger batteries, they stick out the back and will affect how it flies. You'll get an extra battery and charger with the BNF. And props. They just open the retail box and take out the tx...at least that's what the BNF I got from BG was like.

jozi

Ok, I'll not bother with the larger batteries. I have 2x here anyway so I'll have a 3rd one when the new one arrives after I order.

I just went out to the road with some binoculars and scanned up/down the field but I couldnt see anything really. It could have crashed hard enough for the bat to come lose as well. It was pretty high up, I noticed some cloud covering it as well as being far away :eek:

Ordering the guard with it, a pair or motors and red/black props. I'll probably also paint the underside red or something so I can see it :P

Now you know why I recommended the prop guard for indoors! You can fly it in a small room and not worry (too much) about banging off the walls. And I bet you didn't lower the rates to 40 like I recommended either :pac:

Make sure to get H107L props, the original Hubsan X4 had a gap between the prop hub and the motor so if you crashed upside down it would drive the motor shaft into the motor. The new H107L props have a slightly longer hub so they can't do that.

jozi

Deleted User wrote: »

Now you know why I recommended the prop guard for indoors! You can fly it in a small room and not worry (too much) about banging off the walls. And I bet you didn't lower the rates to 40 like I recommended either :pac:

Make sure to get H107L props, the original Hubsan X4 had a gap between the prop hub and the motor so if you crashed upside down it would drive the motor shaft into the motor. The new H107L props have a slightly longer hub so they can't do that.

I probably didn't but I didn't really find it very responsive when I tried it indoors.

Noticed the red/black blades are actually for a different quad, white/black looks to be the only option.

The shop I bought from didn have the guard when I ordered, BG does so it's on order!

damned_junkie

You've now learned the number one lesson in multi-rotor flying: disaster is inevitable!

I've crashed my tri in every conceivable way possible, you just have to pick up and try again!

I picked up a little hubsan q4 nano quad off radiocontrolledshop.ie last week, cool little thing for practicing while I wait for the weather to improve.

jozi

And that I should have killed the throttle before it got to far away (I didn't want to crash it on the roof of the house )

Kirby

I picked myself up a LaTrax Alias this week. Some serious power there and it is quite twitchy on the throttle. Amazed at how much kick it has for a brushed quad. The weather has been atrocious so I've been flying indoors but I can't wait to get it outside.

One thing, I've flown 4 channel choppers for years but I only just noticed that all of them were Mode 4. Mode 2 being the international standard now and while it's a little bit of an adjustment I was surprised at how quickly I adapted.

I have a Hubsan x4 and a V922 6-channel chopper on order. Should have them in about a week or so.

jozi

Seems like a lot of people have at least two of these or other type of copter. I've been tempted to get a 2nd one while I wait for my new hubsan. It's on back order and estimated to be in stock sat, so prob another 3-4 weeks before it arrives here?

Kirby

Kirby wrote: »

I have a Hubsan x4 and a V922 6-channel chopper on order. Should have them in about a week or so.

The V922 is a great little heli, I have the HCP80 (same as V933), they're a lot of fun and the small size makes them very crash-resistant.

One thing i'd say is that the WLtoys transmitter isn't fantastic, have you something else to fly it with?

jozi wrote: »

Seems like a lot of people have at least two of these or other type of copter. I've been tempted to get a 2nd one while I wait for my new hubsan. It's on back order and estimated to be in stock sat, so prob another 3-4 weeks before it arrives here?

Yeah, once they ship it it'll be around 3 weeks. About the quickest i've had from BG is 2 weeks. When things are in stock they normally ship the next day but after Chinese new year i'd say a lot of popular things are back ordered. The whole country shuts down for 2 weeks.

jozi

Yeah the copter was out of stock. I seen another msg on a different site about delays at the post office. Was offered another one the day I had ordered it, world have been here by now if I'd bought it.

jozi

Nearly 2 weeks waiting on BangGood to process my order and their expectd stock went from the 15th to the 21st :mad:

jozi

I gave in to waiting on BangGood and ordered BnF from arrowmodels (where I got the first one). It arrived today :cool:

Have flown about 3x three batteries indoors so far, starting to get the hang of flying, still need more time when it's facing me. It's drifting ever so slightly, much more stable than the last one though, and trim doesn't seem to be able to get it spot on but it's manageable. Destroyed one pair of blades as well so far, more on order from BG.

I went outside earlier just for a min, expert mode is way more sensitive! I dialed back some thing as recommended which seems fine for indoors.

Glad to hear you got one, their prices look decent enough as well. Banggood are fine for when you're not in a rush but the slow boat can be frustrating if you need something asap. For that reason I try to order parts (motors etc) before I need them.

I wouldn't worry about a little bit of drift, it's impossible to have something that stays perfectly in one spot even indoors. If you can go hands off in the middle of the room and it takes 4 or 5 seconds before it's about to hit a wall I would consider it perfect and not bother trying to trim or calibrate it any more.

Damage to a prop can make it produce more or less lift so if it's suddenly drifting a lot I would check the props before trying to trim or re-calibrate it.

Flying in all orientations is one of those things that you should practice a LOT, it will take a lot of effort initially and eventually your brain will just do it automatically for you. That's the great thing about small, cheap helis/quads, you can practice the basic stuff for hours in all weather and when you eventually move to something bigger and more expensive, all the basic mistakes will be behind you.

At €19.50 RTF I am very tempted by this one but will try my best to resist, the last thing I need is another micro quad, it probably eats motors and batteries like they're going out of fashion :pac:

http://www.tmart.com/World-s-Smallest-Wltoys-V272-2.4G-4CH-6-Axial-Nano-RC-Quadcopter-with-normal-Controller-RTF_p238995.html

Seems to be a modified copy of the Hubsan Q4 nano. Which is good fun but doesn't last very long.

jozi

I spotted that micro as well, figured having a tx I should just stick to the hubsan.

I had a crash earlier between a chair and a foot rest thing and one of the motors sounds different to the rest, even with the prop removed. I put a drop of 3in1 on the shaft and it seems cured.

Does anyone know are the white and black props the same? Other than being CW and CCW can I use a white one instead of a black? I got a little damage and its drifting a whole lot more than before. The drifting before wasn't bad enough not to manage it.

Had a quick play outside and in expert mode, what a difference in how sensitive it is! Was to windy so I didn't stay out to long, it didn't fly of though :cool:

Yep the white and black props are the same, once you put CW and CCW on the correct motors it doesnt matter what colour they are.

The motor shaft can be damaged easily enough from crashes so keep an eye on the one you thought was iffy. Sound is definitely one way, if you hold it level with a small bit of throttle and then lower each corner you'll be able to hear each motor throttle up. Another thing is to give each prop a flick and see how long they spin.

Motors are cheap enough and not too hard to replace if you can solder, fiddly more than anything.

Another tip is that if you crash upside down indoors check the motors for hair before flying again.

jozi

I think it was just a bad prob that made it sound different. I've put new props on and it's hovering nearly as good as it did out of the box.

Had a good go (3x batteries) at flying out doors earlier in expert mode. Getting a bit more confident in making sure it doesnt get away, need to practice flying with the quad not facing away from me. She's pretty durable to, had a few crashes from hitting a tree branch and from killing power when heading for the tree to fast.

Is it normal for it to lose altitude when flying in a certain directing as fast as it will go?

Also, is it possible to disable the auto flip, I've crashed a few times because of it when I didnt want it to happen.

civdef

Is it normal for it to lose altitude when flying in a certain directing as fast as it will go?

Basically, it is moving forwards because it it is tilted slightly forwards, which introduce an additional downward force. At max speed, there is no spare upwards force available (from throttling up) to compensate for this so you will tend to lose a bit of altitude.

jozi

I can see how it makes sense, is it the same with larger quads also? Would you throttle up a little before doing it or just live with it?