Hi vis discussion thread (read post #1)

Macy0161 · 08-11-2021 1:15pm

As said many times on this thread, fluorescent material doesn't work in the dark. So science says no, it wouldn't have prevented it.

AndrewJRenko · 08-11-2021 1:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135711#Comment_118135711

You can see the value of hiviz panels for all cars, to compensate for idiot drivers like this.

Markcheese · 08-11-2021 1:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135870#Comment_118135870

What ? Like the large reflective lights and areas of glass on most vehicles - yeah pretty much -

Even so ,It doesn't help though when grey Is the most common colour and it's a grey day -

Wildly Boaring · 08-11-2021 1:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135892#Comment_118135892

You realise glass is seethrough and in no way reflective or "Hi-viz"?

JimmyVik · 08-11-2021 3:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135845#Comment_118135845

Sometimes things just need to be dumbed down for people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp91kifQDhc

tomasrojo · 08-11-2021 3:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118136456#Comment_118136456

Yes, the fluorescent material in that video is pretty much invisible or not very conspicuous, but the reflector bands are nore visible. Just as was said.

There's no controversy here. The reflective strips are added to those vests because after the sun has set, there isn't enough UV light around for the green/yellow/orange material to fluoresce.

The point is, people on bikes already have lights on their bikes (or should have), and frequently have reflectors on the bike and on their bike luggage, and you can see in that video that the car headlights shine far more at a level below the torso, so those other reflectors are better positioned.

A few of those scenarios show quite well how limited even the reflective strips are.

MojoMaker · 08-11-2021 3:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135788#Comment_118135788

I think that's generous towards a known shitstirrer.

What part of a nasty accident is 'funny'?

cletus · 08-11-2021 3:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118136643#Comment_118136643

I wasn't actually giving him a genuine score. It was a comment meant to show that I didn't believe his story, and it was, in general, a poor attempt.

I don't believe that I suggested the accident was funny, and I don't believe that any of my previous posts in this forum would suggest that either

Markcheese · 08-11-2021 5:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118136456#Comment_118136456

But , but , but - if you close your eyes the guy with the hi-viz is no more visable than the guy without -

tomasrojo · 08-11-2021 6:01pm

This is a reasonably good illustration of how meager the effectiveness of even the reflective strips are from some angles. Car headlights are angled to the footpath side, and approaching a car from the other side results in quite a small amount of reflection. The green part is, as said already, doing effectively nothing.

Lights are way better, and if you have very good lights, these €1 builders vests don't add much value at all. If your lights already make you conspicuous, what's the added value of that sort of reflection?

AndrewJRenko · 08-11-2021 9:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118135892#Comment_118135892

Reflective lights are only at the rear - what about the other three sides? How could you possibly be expected to see a black or navy or burgandy car when you're approaching from the front or side? What's the big resistance to making cars visible? When are drivers going to start taking responsibility for their own safety? Are they afraid that they won't look cool or something?

Markcheese · 08-11-2021 10:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118138404#Comment_118138404

True

JimmyVik · 09-11-2021 11:26am

This thread could easily be called the Darwin awards thread at this rate.

Seth Brundle · 09-11-2021 12:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140119#Comment_118140119

Why? Because some people believe that focus should be towards lights and driver observation rather than at the amount of yellow stuff the vulnerable person is wearing?

Given the common belief that in order to protect ones self, a vulnerable user needs to wear high-viz (which has been shown to be less effective than proper lights), why aren't cars painted in high-viz given the amount of drivers that manage to crash into other cars?

It isn't as simple as saying that cyclists need to wear this or that (despite our courts placing a portion of blame on the victim). High-viz is no good if the driver is not being observant. Lights are a better way of getting attention, from a greater distance, than what is touted as high-viz. However, the law does not legislate for light quality and you have the likes of the RSA giving away LED lights that shine pretty much no light. However, the RSA are very quick to send out high-viz and say that the vulnerable road user should wear it.

tomasrojo · 09-11-2021 12:51pm

If you see someone with good lights (and you will if you're looking in their direction at all), and you decide that they have to dress up like a canary or a binman on top of that, you're either a total neurotic, or you just want to punish people for being different.

tomasrojo · 09-11-2021 12:57pm

(If you yourself want to dress up that way, absolutely fine. You can just spare everyone else the homilies.)

Macy0161 · 09-11-2021 1:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140119#Comment_118140119

More the Evidence/ Science thread, given the numbers that pop in to claim fluorescent material works in the dark and dispute the studies that show that wearing it does not vulnerable roads users safer.

JimmyVik · 09-11-2021 1:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140699#Comment_118140699

Ah would you stop.

Its simple. The better you light yourself up, the better your chances of being seen.

Dont understand why people get so anal about it. Its a simple step to make yourself safer. So you can decide personally whether you want to take it or not.

tomasrojo · 09-11-2021 1:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140779#Comment_118140779

Randy Swart agrees with you.

http://www.helmets.org/lights.htm

Summary: One cyclist's approach to being seen at night.

--I am now using neon orange bikes, and may go to neon lime green.

--For headlights I use a car light.

--For tail lights I started with two leg lights, showing red to the rear and white to the front.

--I added yellow blinkers, starting with a 7 inch barricade light.

--After the barricade light I added smaller yellow blinkers. The best was something called the Far Out Flasher, sold by Schwinn stores in the 80's and by the late Ed Kearny (Bicycle Lighting Systems). The Belt Beacon was another, and I used those on my helmet, mounted with Velcro, juiced up by adding chrome tape to make a reflector behind the bulb.

--Beginning about 1990 I added the now-standard red LED blinkers [...] I had one on my helmet, mounted with hook-and-loop. [...] I bought a very large LED flasher being test-marketed at a Chinese exporter's booth designed for use by cars as an emergency road flasher, and packaged as a "Highway Safety Light." It is 4" x 6", and has 18 extremely bright LED's in three rows.

--I have replaced the incandescent blinking Far Out Flasher on my helmet with an Innova 24/7 led blinker. This is an octagonal light about 2" by 3" (50mm by 75mm) that velcros on well. [...] The light has a rectangular LED area with a rotating switch that selects different blink patterns and colors of LEDs. I use the one that flashes rapid red then white then yellow and looks vaguely like a police car flasher.

--I got a sample at Interbike of a single yellow led that screws onto a shraeder valve and goes around. [...] At present I am using an Inova 24/7 light on my helmet. It has red and white leds that blink in a very bright emergency light pattern, and runs happily for months on one CR2 photo battery.

--In general, I believe in redundancy

--I also like to "layer" my tail lights, with one at the level of the wheel axle, one under the saddle, and one on the helmet. The more I observe about urban light clutter the more I favor big, big lights and lights that have a signature. You will find this concept better developed on Ken Kifer's Web page discussion of the Flashing Neon Light Display, although I would not favor his use of a diesel generator to power the array.

(Ken Kifer's Flashing Neon Light Display is a parody of obsessive hyper-illumination, but the joke seems to have passed Randy Swart by, despite the humorous suggestion of using a diesel generator on a bike purely to generate light.)

--In 2010 the battery powering my car light failed once again and I bought a new Magicshine system from Geoman Gear.

--For reflectors I use the hottest 3M product I can lay my hands on to add reflectivity to pedals, shoes, cranks (flashes as the cranks go around), panniers, clothing, helmet, anywhere else. 3M markets a "snake" in Europe that weaves around the spoke nipples, and under headlights looks like a ring of white, identifying the bike immediately. [...] I am trying a similar product now from a company called Techflex. [...] I am using one on the front wheel of my night bike, but my panniers obstruct it in the rear.

--You can find 3M Scotchlite in many local stores, but for their hotter stuff, you have to go to the Web to places like Itendi-tape. [...] I use it on helmets and some other spots

tomasrojo · 09-11-2021 1:34pm

I sincerely hope you're going at least as far as Randy Swart. After all, we have to reduce risk *as much as possible*. Any less gets a Darwin Award.

Seth Brundle · 09-11-2021 1:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140779#Comment_118140779

The problem is that dressing up in yellow is not as safe as a decent set of lights despite what we have been led to believe by the media. If you want to be seen in the dark then lights are by far and away the best way to go. I've been knocked down in the past (100% driver's fault). I am now quite conscious of my own personal safety. I cannot however control how others behave around me but what I can do is let them know of my presence and provide sufficient notice of my presence. Wearing yellow does not do this as efficiently as having a bright light. In many cases, drivers will only see the high-viz when they are close to you and by then they may not have given enough time to react whereas lights can be seen from much further distances.

What you have managed to do in your few lines is placed the entire burden of road safety onto the victim. There should be no issue in being seen the vast majority of the time if you have good lights. However, if the driver is simply not concentrating, no amount of safety gear is going to do anything. I've had drivers tell me that the didn't see me despite a big high-viz rucksac on my back and two rear lights. If some drivers don't see me because they weren't looking ahead. What more am I expected to do?

If people were serious about road safety then things would be a lot different. Roadways would not be designed principally for cars but would initially focus on the movement of vulnerable road users and then accommodate cars around them. Cars would also be slower and more visible. But that won't happen because!!!

Still, you want to believe that yellow clothes are the be all and end all despite the evidence - fine, go ahead!

thefallingman · 09-11-2021 1:44pm

Hi all, cyclist here in dublin, and my his vis top has seen better days, anyone have any tips on where to buy new and good high vis jackets or waterproofs, sorry if answered earlier but i'm not going through 88 pages ! I have googled obviously but would like a recommendation from a fellow cyclist.

Macy0161 · 09-11-2021 1:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140779#Comment_118140779

Yes, light yourself up with, eh, lights! Lights are what matter, not fluorescent material which does not work in the dark (because - Science!).

More energy should be focused on updating our half a century bicycle lighting "standards", than giving out builders vests.

Seth Brundle · 09-11-2021 1:56pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118140868#Comment_118140868

The RSA will send you out some high-viz bibs and stuff for free via https://www.rsaorders.ie/orders-online/ Would I recommend them? If that's all you would depend on to be seen then I would say "no".

If you are looking for a high-viz type jacket then any bike shop will have something e.g. https://www.cyclesuperstore.ie/shop/pc/showsearchresults.asp?idCategory=201&withstock=1