Grant vortex 50-90

Dtp1979

I'm trying to commission one at the moment. Brand new boiler. .50 80EH nozzle in it. CO is through the roof with the air at 5. The air is nearly down to 0 now and co is still well over 100. Smoke pump is 0. Co2 is at 10.3. 02 is around 6.5. I can't really shut off any more air. Pump pressure 7 bar.
Any ideas??

crock!

Try a new nozzle.make sure the fga fitting are in right espeicialy around the filter.

Dtp1979

crock! wrote: »

Try a new nozzle.make sure the fga fitting are in right espeicialy around the filter.

Not sure what u mean by FGA fitting

Wearb

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Not sure what u mean by FGA fitting

He means to check that the FGA isn't drawing in air somewhere between the probe and the analyser.

Wearb

What kind of flue, low level or vertical?

jimf

what model vortex is it balance flu if so is it any better with hose removed

id say crock means inline filter on your fga itself

Dtp1979

I tried a new .55 80 eh. Much better. Thanks lads

Wearb

Dtp1979 wrote: »

I'm trying to commission one at the moment. Brand new boiler. .50 80EH nozzle in it. CO is through the roof with the air at 5. The air is nearly down to 0 now and co is still well over 100. Smoke pump is 0. Co2 is at 10.3. 02 is around 6.5. I can't really shut off any more air. Pump pressure 7 bar.
Any ideas??

If the burner has this type of air box, it is not unknown for the dial to show adjustments without the shutter inside moving. If this sort of air box, then take it off and see if shutter is moving when you turn adjuster. Also make sure nothing is preventing a good seal between airbox and burner body.

jimf

Dtp1979 wrote: »

I tried a new .55 80 eh. Much better. Thanks lads

at this stage I nearly always think gammy nozzle if everything else seems ok

Dtp1979

jimf wrote: »

at this stage I nearly always think gammy nozzle if everything else seems ok

Everything's grand now but co is 90. Higher than I'd like

jimf

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Everything's grand now but co is 90. Higher than I'd like

what model vortex dtp

Wearb

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Everything's grand now but co is 90. Higher than I'd like

What's your other settings like? Any markings on your smoke paper at this stage? I hate to ask, but i assume you checked the baffles were not knocked about during transport.

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

what model vortex dtp

He said it was a 50-90, same as 15/26 afaik.

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

He said it was a 50-90, same as 15/26 afaik.

I mean as in utility / boilerhouse / external

JamesM

I would try raising the pressure to 7.5 or even 8 bar.
Jim

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

I mean as in utility / boilerhouse / external

Just as I posted the message, I suspected that that was what you meant.

Dtp1979

Ye it's the outdoor module 50-90. I do always check the baffles before I fire for the first time.
It's not the first time I've seen the CO high on a vortex. I think 90 is the highest I've seen though

shane0007

Did you open the top plastic air box cover to see if the air intake plate was actually moving to your adjustment as suggested by Wearb?

Dtp1979

shane0007 wrote: »

Did you open the top plastic air box cover to see if the air intake plate was actually moving to your adjustment as suggested by Wearb?

Ye it's the first thing I checked. Do you think 90 co is high?

shane0007

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Ye it's the first thing I checked. Do you think 90 co is high?

Shut down, for me, is 100ppm for oil so I would certainly not be happy with 90. I would expect circa 35 - 45 for a new boiler & that will drop to 5 - 15 once the coatings have been burned off.
Something is amiss IMO.
You should also not have to drop the nozzle size in order to get better combustion with that boiler.
Pump pressure ok?
Fuel? A lot of iffy fuel about.
Check again in a couple of days & if still off, out it through as a warranty call.

Dtp1979

shane0007 wrote: »

Shut down, for me, is 100ppm for oil so I would certainly not be happy with 90. I would expect circa 35 - 45 for a new boiler & that will drop to 5 - 15 once the coatings have been burned off.
Something is amiss IMO.
You should also not have to drop the nozzle size in order to get better combustion with that boiler.
Pump pressure ok?
Fuel? A lot of iffy fuel about.
Check again in a couple of days & if still off, out it through as a warranty call.

I only dropped the nozzle size to suit the heat demand of the house. Pump pressure is 7 bar. What checks can I do for dodgy fuel except test for water?

jimf

as all on here know I don't do installs but have commissioned quite a few vortex for diff plumbers in my area and I can honestly say I have never come across one any way near your reading dtp

I think the average would be along the 30/50ppm range

the good thing is you have a great company to go back to and have great pride in their products

Wearb

Dtp1979 wrote: »

I only dropped the nozzle size to suit the heat demand of the house. Pump pressure is 7 bar. What checks can I do for dodgy fuel except test for water?

I used to have a 25 litre drum with some kerosene and with a connection that I could use to fire up new boilers that didn't have oil in new tank. I loaned it to a person that had run out of oil and they ended up breaking it. Perhaps it had gotten brittle anyway. I never replaced it, but it would be good for checking for bad oil.

shane0007

Try put it back to MI with a 0.65 on 8.5bar pressure. MI's is a 0.50 on 7bar, but that shouldn't make much of a difference. By increasing the pump pressure to 7.5bar that will use up a decent amount of XS air & the CO will drop more.

I made up a small container to attach a temporary supply of my fuel to test burners. This will eliminate customer fuel supply concerns.

Dtp1979

shane0007 wrote: »

Try put it back to MI with a 0.65 on 8.5bar pressure. MI's is a 0.50 on 7bar, but that shouldn't make much of a difference. By increasing the pump pressure to 7.5bar that will use up a decent amount of XS air & the CO will drop more.

I made up a small container to attach a temporary supply of my fuel to test burners. This will eliminate customer fuel supply concerns.

So basically try .5 80 EH at 7.5?

jimf

I suppose if you could try and take a positive from dtp experience today is the importance of having boilers commissioned

shane0007

Dtp1979 wrote: »

So basically try .5 80 EH at 7.5?

You put in a 0.55 80EH nozzle set to 7.0 bar pressure, correct?

MI is 0.50 80EH at 7.0 bar or a 0.60 at 8.0 bar or a factory set 0.65 at 8.5 bar. You have increased the fuel from the minimum but decreased the pressure, resulting in too much air.
So, either decrease the fuel or increase the pump pressure, by leaving your 0.55 & increase the pressure to 7.5. This will use up the XS air, which will lower your CO.

Or re-instate factory settings & see if all is ok, then make your amendments. If you cannot achieve factory settings, you can prove fuel supply is good, then put through a warranty call.

Is door on or off whilst analyising?

Dtp1979

shane0007 wrote: »

You put in a 0.55 80EH nozzle set to 7.0 bar pressure, correct?

MI is 0.50 80EH at 7.0 bar or a 0.60 at 8.0 bar or a factory set 0.65 at 8.5 bar. You have increased the fuel from the minimum but decreased the pressure, resulting in too much air.
So, either decrease the fuel or increase the pump pressure, by leaving your 0.55 & increase the pressure to 7.5. This will use up the XS air, which will lower your CO.

Or re-instate factory settings & see if all is ok, then make your amendments. If you cannot achieve factory settings, you can prove fuel supply is good, then put through a warranty call.

Is door on or off whilst analyising?

Door always on. I only out in the .55 because that's all I had in the van I originally had the .5 in but was getting crazy high CO that nozzle

agusta

Id agree with shane and set it up to factory settings with a proven fuel supply,ie. 23kw.If you can achieve factory settings,then you could set it up to get 15kw.The burner head should be changed from a T2 to T1 when setting boiler below 23kw

shane0007

Ok. Could have been a dodgy 0.5 nozzle. Increase pump pressure to 7.5 for the 0.55 & see how that is. You might find it will bring the CO down to the 40's or less & for the first few fires that would be perfectly acceptable.

shane0007

agusta wrote: »

The burner head should be changed from a T2 to T1 when setting boiler below 23kw

Very good point, I never even thought of the required head change. This would also have an effect on combustion.

RTFM :eek::D

Dtp1979

shane0007 wrote: »

Very good point, I never even thought of the required head change. This would also have an effect on combustion.

RTFM :eek::D

I didn't notice that and grant themselves didn't mention it. So I've to buy a different feckin blast tube??

shane0007

Dtp1979 wrote: »

I didn't notice that and grant themselves didn't mention it.

They do in their installation manual. :P

Dtp1979 wrote: »

So I've to buy a different feckin blast tube??

Yup, if you want to run it below 23kw.

Dtp1979

shane0007 wrote: »

They do in their installation manual. :P



Yup, if you want to run it below 23kw.

Feck
And thanks Shane!

shane0007

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Feck
And thanks Shane!

Don't thank me, thank Augusta. He was the one who spotted it. I completely missed it.

Dtp1979

shane0007 wrote: »

Don't thank me, thank Augusta. He was the one who spotted it. I completely missed it.

Sorry thanks Augusta. Well spotted. I'm just pissed off I've to go back and buy a new head. I'll keep yee updated.

jimf

well spotted agusta good job somebody is awake in limerick

shane0007

I would still adjust the pressure to 7.5 bar if you are leaving the 0.55 nozzle in.

Dtp1979

shane0007 wrote: »

I would still adjust the pressure to 7.5 bar if you are leaving the 0.55 nozzle in.

I'll get a new .5 and leave it as MI's. And a new blast tube while I'm in the shop!

Wearb

Dtp1979 wrote: »

I'll get a new .5 and leave it as MI's. And a new blast tube while I'm in the shop!

I haven't access to manual at moment but perhaps the lowest allowed firing with existing head might not be too far off heating demand.

agusta

Thanks guys,It just so happens that i had to change a t3 head to a t2 head lately so i was alert to checking head size.I found it more cost effective to buy a new burner with a t2 head and use the remaining parts as spares than just buy a t2 head on its own.

shane0007

Or order the boiler preset to your requirement with the nozzle & head factory fitted :eek:

jimf

shane0007 wrote: »

Or order the boiler preset to your requirement with the nozzle & head factory fitted :eek:

easiest fix I suppose and no extra cost

shane0007

jimf wrote: »

easiest fix I suppose and no extra cost

Sorry, I stole your cherry

jimf

shane0007 wrote: »

Sorry, I stole your cherry

its a long time since anybody worried about my cherry :eek::eek::eek:

Dtp1979

agusta wrote: »

Thanks guys,It just so happens that i had to change a t3 head to a t2 head lately so i was alert to checking head size.I found it more cost effective to buy a new burner with a t2 head and use the remaining parts as spares than just buy a t2 head on its own.

Jesus how much is a new head?

Dtp1979

Wearb wrote: »

I haven't access to manual at moment but perhaps the lowest allowed firing with existing head might not be too far off heating demand.

I was thinking that but I'd be afraid to chance it

agusta

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Jesus how much is a new head?

Im guessing about 35 euro,i wonder if you set up burner to 21.5 kw,just over 70000 btu with the T2 head would that be way above heat requirements

Dtp1979

agusta wrote: »

Im guessing about 35 euro,i wonder if you set up burner to 21.5 kw,just over 70000 btu with the T2 head would that be way above heat requirements

It would. The house only needs 16kw max

DGOBS

Sorry for coming in on this so late, sounds like there is impingement, causing the CO, +1 on the head

Dtp1979

I just found a t1 in the van. Old but perfect. I'll try it first before I go buying. I'll update as soon as I do it