Tell me about my muscles.

bcmf

OK.
I have very 'bulky' muscles.
ie any form of training using a set of muscles eg at the moment I am race training (bicylce) and as per all other years my my muscles tend to 'bulk' rather then get sinewy.
Its the same with the rest of my body.
I do a lot (by a lot I clocked it at about 2 marathons a week of slow walking which I realise is low in calorie burning) of walking in my job and have started to what I will only describe as stomach pulls ie as I walk I tense the muscle groups in my stomach and sides to try and firm up my stomach. It's working!

I think I have whats called slow twitch muscles.

Now as I try and lose weight I think I really need to understand how my muscles work as regards to glycogen etc.
My diet is relatively good.

Plenty of veg, olive oil, walnuts, eggs etc for lunch.
I usually dont have brekkie ( a habit of eating brekkie I stopped in November of last year).
Dinners are usually good homemade from scratch dinners with a good mix of the food groups.
Carbs in the form of bread are gone with the exception of the odd scone/pastry.
Try not eat in between lunch (which happens around 10am - have a 6am start) and dinner circa 6pm but if I do get hungry its usually somoe fruit and water.
I am not immune to the odd choccy bar but love peanut butter. Sugary drinks completley out.

OK now to the crux of my problem.
Working out results in big gains in muscle but sod all fat waste.
Weight loss is painfully slow if any .

The training invloves different types of cadence to from spinning to mashing.


Thoughts or tips anyone.

cmyk

bcmf wrote: »

OK now to the crux of my problem.
Working out results in big gains in muscle but sod all fat waste.
Weight loss is painfully slow if any.

What's your height and weight?
Do you know how many calories you're eating daily?
What does your training week look like?
How are you measuring your fat loss?

bcmf

What's your height and weight? 5'10 (178cm) 95kg


Do you know how many calories you're eating daily No. But will keep a log from tomorrow!
Typical would be:
Brekkie.
Black coffee. And maybe a small yoghurt or a spoonful of peanut butter.

Lunch:
Usually a sliced carrot. Some chopped Broccoli.Whatever other veg are in the fridge. All raw.
2 Boiled eggs. A small handful of walnuts.
2 spoonfuls of olive oil.
Some Feta cheese. NOT Greek style but feta.
Dinner something homeade eg Spag Bol or curry or spuds and meat etc.
A coffee and a low fat yoghurt.

What does your training week look like? Usually 3 cycles per week.
One circa 50km. Combined of some hill repeats (hill of 2.5km in lenght done a different cadence) mixed with some flat interval work.
One 70-100km. Endurance.
One circa 40km. Painfest dedicated hill repeats.
As above will keep this thread updated as I go.
These are done usually on an empty stomach or just a coffee and a yoghurt or a spoonful of peanut butter.
Lidls or Aldi crunchy version.
Does the walking in work count.

How are you measuring your fat loss?

Visually..Certainly starting to trim around the (hidden) midriff but also putting that down to the stomach pulls.

cmyk

bcmf wrote: »

5'10 (178cm) 95kg

Super you can use this to determine your maintenance...we can tackle that tomorrow.

bcmf wrote: »

But will keep a log from tomorrow!

Great, if you've got a smartphone download myfitnesspal and track it for tomorrow and let us know what it comes out at, if not they've a web version too. On first viewing it doesn't look anywhere near enough to support that level of training though. How long have you been eating like that?

bcmf wrote: »

Usually 3 cycles per week.

Sorry one last question on that, what sort of time is spent on each session? e.g. 50km cycle - 30mins etc.

bcmf wrote: »

Does the walking in work count.

It all counts, how long is your walk to work? Active job or desk job?

bcmf wrote: »

Visually..Certainly starting to trim around the (hidden) midriff but also putting that down to the stomach pulls.

That's a good sign, I would imagine it has little to do with the stomach pulls though and more to do with actual fat loss.

bcmf

OK. First thanks for your input cymk (your not involved in printing by any chance )

I will answer each in a seperate post.
Q2. Daily diet.
As I said its a sample but will keep a note of everyday.
But really since about October of last year.
Drink plenty of water. Enjoy the odd beer. By odd I mean maybe 3 bottles a week. Have given up wine as I felt it was having an affect on my asthma.

bcmf

Q3.
I dont walk to work to walk. I drive but my job invovles loads of walking.Everyday.
Will bring my Garmin in every day and track it but on busy/long days it could go to 20+km

bcmf

Q4.
Training. will have to go into my strava and Garmin for this.

Yesterday was 91.9km with a moving time of 3.42.
Food intake was a coffee and a lf yoghurt some blue berries and a spoonful of peanut butter.
At circa 81km we stopped for a black coffee and I halved a slice of lemon drizzle cake with someone else.

A 45km spin in 2hrs. Very hard climbing effort.

A 63km spin in 2.24.

A 45km spin in 1.51

and so on

cmyk

bcmf wrote: »

OK. First thanks for your input cymk (your not involved in printing by any chance )

No problem and yes originally : )

bcmf wrote: »

As I said its a sample but will keep a note of everyday.

Ok, this'll give you a much more accurate idea of total cals and ratios. Record all food and fluids.

bcmf wrote: »

Q4.
Training Time

Ok we'll factor in 10+ weekly hours of training too when we look at your results over the next few days.

bcmf

Thanks.
I know that muscle weighs more then fat.
Would a concern be that as I my training increase's my weight wont show any significant drop as I ,hopefully, replace the fat with muscle.
As you can imagine most of the muscle will be based from the hips down so any fat loss will hopefully show up on the face upper body.
I cant really do any upper body workout due to an ongoing injury.
So I want to get into that 'body burning fat for fuel' without putting the strenght I am building in my legs at risk.
This harks back to my original point of my type of muscles and how to fuel them!
Am I making sense?

cmyk

bcmf wrote: »

I know that muscle weighs more then fat.

Not quite, the same weight simply takes up less volume than that of fat.

bcmf wrote: »

Would a concern be that as I my training increase's my weight wont show any significant drop as I ,hopefully, replace the fat with muscle.

Your 'energy in' side of the equation will determine your weight loss/gain. You won't replace your fat with muscle as they're both two physiologically different processes. Your best concentrating on one first.

bcmf wrote: »

As you can imagine most of the muscle will be based from the hips down so any fat loss will hopefully show up on the face upper body.

You really mean your want for stomach loss here right?

bcmf wrote: »

I cant really do any upper body workout due to an ongoing injury.

Ok, have you got access to an S&C coach at all, are you a member of a club?

bcmf wrote: »

So I want to get into that 'body burning fat for fuel' without putting the strenght I am building in my legs at risk.

Again, your nutrition is going to play a major factor in this.

bcmf wrote: »

This harks back to my original point of my type of muscles and how to fuel them! Am I making sense?

Sort of making sense, i'll try to find you a decent article online that might give you a better understanding of what's happening. All of your training is endurance based, so your 'strength training' is all happening at one end of a continuum (strength endurance). (If only Will was still here to explain the continuum).

Are you competing, or planning to compete at all? Just to be clear here too, I'm not a S&C myself specifically but i'll help as best I can.

aaronwright88

bcmf wrote: »

What's your height and weight? 5'10 (178cm) 95kg


Do you know how many calories you're eating daily No. But will keep a log from tomorrow!
Typical would be:
Brekkie.
Black coffee. And maybe a small yoghurt or a spoonful of peanut butter.

Lunch:
Usually a sliced carrot. Some chopped Broccoli.Whatever other veg are in the fridge. All raw.
2 Boiled eggs. A small handful of walnuts.
2 spoonfuls of olive oil.
Some Feta cheese. NOT Greek style but feta.
Dinner something homeade eg Spag Bol or curry or spuds and meat etc.
A coffee and a low fat yoghurt.

What does your training week look like? Usually 3 cycles per week.
One circa 50km. Combined of some hill repeats (hill of 2.5km in lenght done a different cadence) mixed with some flat interval work.
One 70-100km. Endurance.
One circa 40km. Painfest dedicated hill repeats.
As above will keep this thread updated as I go.
These are done usually on an empty stomach or just a coffee and a yoghurt or a spoonful of peanut butter.
Lidls or Aldi crunchy version.
Does the walking in work count.

How are you measuring your fat loss?

Visually..Certainly starting to trim around the (hidden) midriff but also putting that down to the stomach pulls.

Your diet is off point to say the least.Do you know what your maintenace calories are yet?What macros are you aiming for everyday?Have you gotten your testosterone levels checked?

But i suppose you're one of them people who "just wanna tone up" :rolleyes:

bcmf

aaronwright88 wrote: »

Your diet is off point to say the least.Do you know what your maintenace calories are yet?What macros are you aiming for everyday?Have you gotten your testosterone levels checked?

But i suppose you're one of them people who "just wanna tone up" :rolleyes:

Kinda wanna tone up but 9and this is related to one of cymk's questions above but I am planning to bike race a good deal this season so toneing up is down the list.

Testosteone levels have not been checked but a blood work last year (after feeling very fatigued) revealed a low iron level. Hence the lunch loaded with raw veg. Energy wise feel good.
Mainteance calories - I dont know. Am only getting started.

bcmf

cmyk wrote: »

Not quite, the same weight simply takes up less volume than that of fat.

OK. Thanks

Your 'energy in' side of the equation will determine your weight loss/gain. You won't replace your fat with muscle as they're both two physiologically different processes. Your best concentrating on one first.

Yeah this is where I am tryin to learn about fuelling muscles rather then just eating and hoping.



You really mean your want for stomach loss here right?

Stomach and upper body flab.The base of a good tone is there but I know that I cant pick and choose where the body takes fat from.


Ok, have you got access to an S&C coach at all, are you a member of a club?
ABout to be part of a club but my injury is related to an accident which will be before the courts so cant go into much further but safe to say that any upper body workout isnt going to happen anytime soon.




Sort of making sense, i'll try to find you a decent article online that might give you a better understanding of what's happening. All of your training is endurance based, so your 'strength training' is all happening at one end of a continuum (strength endurance). (If only Will was still here to explain the continuum).

Yep. Thats way its planned for the next few weeks with an 'upping' of pace etc in Feb.
Endurance to get a base and supposedly fat burnng but it doesnt seem to be happening for me or very very slowly at least

Are you competing, or planning to compete at all?
Yes. see answer to aaron above

Answers in qoute

bcmf

cmyk wrote: »

Sort of making sense, i'll try to find you a decent article online that might give you a better understanding of what's happening. All of your training is endurance based, so your 'strength training' is all happening at one end of a continuum (strength endurance). (If only Will was still here to explain the continuum).

I have read a good article on Marks daily apple that explains how your body chooses how to burn energy and how the muscles has its own store of glycogen and can call on that etc etc
But I would like to know or find out with does the different kind of muscles burn differently

thegreatiam

everyone has fast twitch muscles
everyone has slow twitch muscles.
Some people have slightly more of one type than another type, but not by a huge degree.

The difference between you and someone else is going to minimal.

other factors will have more effect on you such as diet and training, rest and determination all will overpower a slightly higher ratio of one type of muscle fiber than another.

If your weight loss is slow its down to the amount of calories you consume vs the amount you burn. You're simple overestimating your calories out, or underestimating your calories in. Start weighing your food. and/or tracking it with an app.

Sangre

If you have bulky muscles and they're not as 'sinewy' as you'd like, its simply a case that you need to drop your body fat percentage (which generally, but not always, means losing weight). Do you have any idea what you bf% is? Top cyclists will have very low body fat to give themselves this appearance. Without seeing a picture of yourself, I would have thought there is scope to lose at few kg at your weight and height (which you've acknowledged).

bcmf

Thanks for the info.
Yeah ideally I would like to shed 10kgs but lose it slowly (but not that slowly) and properly.
A daily and moving to a weekly track with a once weekly ,same time every week, should reveal something.

Will have really get to grips with calories in and out.
I realise that its easy to get it wrong both ways.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

I think Sangre is trying to wangle a picture of you in your jocks

bcmf

Wangle all he/she wants. Aint happening.

Over the last few days I have been keeping track of food intake and lookslike way too much.
Gotta get to grips with that.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Yeah in all fairness, while people differ in the shape or their muscles to a minor extent, generally bulky muscles are where the muscle is growing under a layer of fat. The muscle looks smooth. That lean look is all down to low bodyfat, and that all down to a strict diet.

Sangre

bcmf wrote: »

Wangle all he/she wants. Aint happening.

Over the last few days I have been keeping track of food intake and lookslike way too much.
Gotta get to grips with that.

Just fyi I'm an extremely attractive single woman who likes bulky muscles. Up to you of course though.

bcmf

Well you gotta let me know your email then!

Transform

bcmf wrote: »

Well you gotta let me know your email then!

at your height and weight you are simply too heavy - record calories daily as you are no where near as good as you think you are plus an upper body injury does not prevent you from doing a ton of mobility work for all parts of your body so hope you are putting that in also.

I work with a few cyclists and they are ALL chronically tight and for the most part quite weak

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Transform wrote: »

I work with a few cyclists and they are ALL chronically tight

Maybe so but they will spend any money on carbon fibre bike parts and lycra.

bcmf

Ben Beautiful Scrap wrote: »

Maybe so but they will spend LOADS money on carbon fibre bike parts and lycra.

Fixed

bcmf

Transform wrote: »

at your height and weight you are simply too heavy - record calories daily as you are no where near as good as you think you are plus an upper body injury does not prevent you from doing a ton of mobility work for all parts of your body so hope you are putting that in also.

I work with a few cyclists and they are ALL chronically tight and for the most part quite weak

Yeah I got a wake up call over the last few days regarding cals in and out.
Am in the process of putting that to rights.
Dont worry my job entails lots of physical work so upper body gets a proper workout.
I'd prefer not to go onto specifics of my injury on an open forum.

Alf Veedersane

bcmf wrote: »

Yeah I got a wake up call over the last few days regarding cals in and out.
Am in the process of putting that to rights.
Dont worry my job entails lots of physical work so upper body gets a proper workout.
I'd prefer not to go onto specifics of my injury on an open forum.

Cyclists are happier when the sleeves of their cycling jersey feels loose on their arm. Granted, he's not the best example, but look at the difference in Armstrong's physique from his early days to when he was 'winning' the TdF.

Strong legs but did mostly cardio - working at a higher cadence - so that there was a bigger load on the cardiovascular system rather than the muscles.

bcmf

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Cyclists are happier when the sleeves of their cycling jersey feels loose on their arm. Granted, he's not the best example, but look at the difference in Armstrong's physique from his early days to when he was 'winning' the TdF.

Strong legs but did mostly cardio - working at a higher cadence - so that there was a bigger load on the cardiovascular system rather than the muscles.

A little O/T but by co-incedence I am re-reading the book that blew the whole lot up ,regarding doping, Tyler Hamiltons : The Secret Race and tbh honest comparing what Armstrong was like in his early career to the latter days and TDf days is not an example for anyone.

But I get where you are coming from!

Alf Veedersane

bcmf wrote: »

A little O/T but by co-incedence I am re-reading the book that blew the whole lot up ,regarding doping, Tyler Hamiltons : The Secret Race and tbh honest comparing what Armstrong was like in his early career to the latter days and TDf days is not an example for anyone.

But I get where you are coming from!

I just mean size does matter. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

I'll take a less extreme example. Look at Dan Martin - a very good climber and a couple of stages in the Vuelta and TdF to his name. But if you saw him in his civvies, you'd think he was sick.

Relatrive to their heights, TdF winners are always scrawny. Wiggins is less than 70kg at 6ft 3 (1.9m).

I know you're not looking to win the TdF but the lighter you are, the better.

You'll note how paranoid Hamilton was about his weight, the more you read on (really good book, that).

bcmf

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I just mean size does matter. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

I'll take a less extreme example. Look at Dan Martin - a very good climber and a couple of stages in the Vuelta and TdF to his name. But if you saw him in his civvies, you'd think he was sick.

Relatrive to their heights, TdF winners are always scrawny. Wiggins is less than 70kg at 6ft 3 (1.9m).

I know you're not looking to win the TdF but the lighter you are, the better.

You'll note how paranoid Hamilton was about his weight, the more you read on (really good book, that).

Ah its my second time reading it. So much in it that it needs ,imo, to be read again.

I know that I am carrying too much weight so there is no denial there.
I understand the power to weight ratio but I aint no climber nor will I ever be. EVen if I got down to 60kgs I dont have the physiology to climb. Nor doI want to.
Over 500m - 1km kick like mule and go like a train.
This brings me back to my initial point of Slow twitch fast twitch muscles and my efforts to get to grips with how they work and use energy.
While I understand that we all have slow and fast twitch fibres what defines climbers and sprinters (apart form weight) wrt to fast/slow twitch muscles.

Alf Veedersane

bcmf wrote: »

While I understand that we all have slow and fast twitch fibres what defines climbers and sprinters (apart form weight) wrt to fast/slow twitch muscles.

This is a basic enough summary but your muscles need to contract quicker in a high kinetic energy situation - sprinting or time trial - because you have less time through the pedal stroke to apply the force than in a low kinetic energy situation - climbing. That's the case even if you look at someone in a TT and someone climbing who may have the same cadence and exerting the same power.

A sprinter needs his leg muscles to react / contract quicker and apply force in a shorter space of time than a climber. To do this he needs more fast-twitch fibres.

Mellor

Out of curiosity, how did you arrive at the conclusion that you had slow twitch muscles?

bcmf

From the internet.Doesn't the internet have all the answers.
Seriously though the fact that most roleurs/sprinters (non climbers) tend to have slow twitch led me to that conculsion.

Alf Veedersane

bcmf wrote: »

From the internet.Doesn't the internet have all the answers.
Seriously though the fact that most roleurs/sprinters (non climbers) tend to have slow twitch led me to that conculsion.

Sprinters and TTers have more fast-twitch fibres.

Climbers more slow-twitch.

bcmf

D'oh!!!
Coffee! Give me Coffee!

thegreatiam

just because you do one type of discipline doesn't mean you will have more of that muscle type.

in all likelyhood you have 50/50 same as the majority of people.

If you train in one type of action then those muscle fibers will become stronger.

Just keep training towards your goals and don't worry about your genetics that you can't change.

You fuel both types of muscle the same way, bacon and milk (insert food of choice here)

The muscles them selves will draw what they need as and when they need them. Affected most by your training of them.

runawaybishop

bcmf wrote: »

From the internet.Doesn't the internet have all the answers.
Seriously though the fact that most roleurs/sprinters (non climbers) tend to have slow twitch led me to that conculsion.

You are saying it as if you only have one type.

Alf Veedersane

thegreatiam wrote: »

just because you do one type of discipline doesn't mean you will have more of that muscle type.

in all likelyhood you have 50/50 same as the majority of people.

If you train in one type of action then those muscle fibers will become stronger.

Just keep training towards your goals and don't worry about your genetics that you can't change.

You fuel both types of muscle the same way, bacon and milk (insert food of choice here)

The muscles them selves will draw what they need as and when they need them. Affected most by your training of them.

Correct. I phrased it poorly. It's about the level of recruitment, which is down to genetics.

bcmf

runawaybishop wrote: »

You are saying it as if you only have one type.

Yes. That what it sounds like doesnt it.
The point of this thread that I started is to find how they work ,hence the title, which is happening.
Drag me out of my ignorance and fill me with kowledge please.

And Thanks!

thegreatiam

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Correct. I phrased it poorly. It's about the level of recruitment, which is down to genetics.

same as just because a sprinter has fast twitch muscles, doesn't mean if you don't have as many fast twitch muscles you cant be a sprinter.

Besides, I would assume that a cyclist would want both types in roughly equal portions. in most disciplines you may need that 10-15 seconds of fast twitch effort, but most of the time you'll be cycling for more than a minute anyway, so all cyclists will need slow twitch muscles.

I don't really know much about cycling events but are there any which take below 30 seconds/1 minute?

bcmf

^^^^
Not really but a 2 or 3 hour event maybe decided by the final 30 seconds ie a massive sprint at the end.

thegreatiam

bcmf wrote: »

Yes. That what it sounds like doesnt it.
The point of this thread that I started is to find how they work ,hence the title, which is happening.
Drag me out of my ignorance and fill me with kowledge please.

And Thanks!

Ok, one type uses oxygen to fuel these are your slow twitch,

the other type does it without oxygen, these are fast twitch.

fast twitch fire very quickly, but cant sustain for long, hence the burning you get in your thighs when you run 100 meters.

you also have Type IIa and Type IIb but that's another day.

runawaybishop

bcmf wrote: »

Yes. That what it sounds like doesnt it.
The point of this thread that I started is to find how they work ,hence the title, which is happening.
Drag me out of my ignorance and fill me with kowledge please.

And Thanks!

I think thegreatiam gave you a pretty good explanation. Do you have specific questions, or are you just looking for general health and fitness tips?

thegreatiam

bcmf wrote: »

^^^^
Not really but a 2 or 3 hour event maybe decided by the final 30 seconds ie a massive sprint at the end.

so for cycling you'll need to train both fast and slow twitch muscles.

Alf Veedersane

thegreatiam wrote: »

Besides, I would assume that a cyclist would want both types in roughly equal portions. in most disciplines you may need that 10-15 seconds of fast twitch effort, but most of the time you'll be cycling for more than a minute anyway, so all cyclists will need slow twitch muscles.

The best cyclists have a balance, which is why a lot of TdF winners don't win many stages*. They're neither brilliant climbers or brilliant sprinters. Wiggins was good at TTs but he nearly died in the mountains. The better sprinters only hang around for the latter stages of the TdF if they're in the running for the green jersey. Same as the King of The Mountains winner doesn't win.

Being a jack of all trades and master of none is the best combo, it would seem.



* there's also the fact that the GC contenders are always trailed by their competitors and not allowed break away too far to win a stage.

thegreatiam wrote: »

I don't really know much about cycling events but are there any which take below 30 seconds/1 minute?

Track cycling: sprint.

bcmf

runawaybishop wrote: »

I think thegreatiam gave you a pretty good explanation. Do you have specific questions, or are you just looking for general health and fitness tips?

Yeah they have and as usual most posts in here have been great.
I suppose the nub of what I am looking for is how muscles are fed and bulk and stamina are generated.
Recently I have read and watched so many things about how muscles are fed re-glucose - insulin etc.

Alf Veedersane

You said you were better at the sprinting element. Do you have a fairly good idea of your cadence in rpm when you're out for a long cycle on the flat?

An increase in cadence should help you apply a more even force for the full pedal stroke. The more you're applying a higher force for a short component of the stroke, the more you use the fuel you'll need for the sprint, i.e. the glycogen. Reduce this and you reduce the level of your peak and sustainable power over the full distance.

runawaybishop

bcmf wrote: »

Yeah they have and as usual most posts in here have been great.
I suppose the nub of what I am looking for is how muscles are fed and bulk and stamina are generated.
Recently I have read and watched so many things about how muscles are fed re-glucose - insulin etc.

That's a pretty complex question alright. You could be very simplistic and say that bulk comes from progressive overload - i.e lifting/pushing heavy things that get heavier as you improve - and stamina comes from lifting/pushing things a lot.

You could break that down further and delve into hypertrophy. Its an increase in overall muscle size by one of two methods. Myofibrillar hypertrophy for strength which is basically making the muscle fibres bigger by lifting/pushing weights near your limit a few times and sarcoplasmic hypertrophy which is recruiting new muscle fibres by lifting/pushing stuff more often, i.e for endurance. There wouldnt be a real compelling reason to ignore one type over the other though.


It looks like you have a specific goal in mind?

thegreatiam

bcmf wrote: »

Yeah they have and as usual most posts in here have been great.
I suppose the nub of what I am looking for is how muscles are fed and bulk and stamina are generated.
Recently I have read and watched so many things about how muscles are fed re-glucose - insulin etc.

I think you are over complicating.

Eat your food and do your training. The muscle will adapt to the training.

bcmf

Thanks.
I suppose I have 2 goals.
Get the weight down which was addressed and become a better sprinter ie at the end of a 50 - 60 race be able to 'empty the tank' over 500mtrs

thegreatiam

bcmf wrote: »

Thanks.
I suppose I have 2 goals.
Get the weight down which was addressed and become a better sprinter ie at the end of a 50 - 60 race be able to 'empty the tank' over 500mtrs

the best way to train for that is by doing that. assisted with exercises that compliment/mimic that.

Diet is easy, just food in-energy out.