What are these worth?

Theboinkmaster

I think €440-450k is a fair enough price for these, due to location.

However given you'd need at least another €50k if not €100k to renovate are these prices still madness?

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/178-ballyroan-road-rathfarnham-dublin-16/2726425

http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/33-dodder-park-road-rathfarnham-dublin-14/2639740

Just wondering what people's opinions are, they could end up selling for much higher i guess you could have bidding war bringing them up to €0.5m each.

Are these fair value or result of possible cash bubble/strangly operating market and possible fall in the coming years?

L1011

I don't see 50-100k renovation work in either of them? Short of the flat roofs being buggered, which you can't tell from photos.

Cuddlesworth

First is in good nick, new carpets and some visual work on the wardrobes to make them look newer.

Second has the hallmarks of a badly maintained house, outdated appliances and heating pipes done the laziest way possible.

Both would need the bathrooms renovated. Neither would requires more then 20k to bring them up to a decent livable standard.

MouseTail

I think both look in good nick, just some updating to your own taste. €20k max.

Theboinkmaster

what do ye think of the asking prices?

falabo

It's 'worth' what potential buyers are willing to pay.

Theboinkmaster

falabo wrote: »

It's 'worth' what potential buyers are willing to pay.

Yes obviously, i didn't ask how much they were worth. I'm asking about the asking prices relative to the current market and seeking people's opinions.

handlemaster

Price to high for houses that need to be renovated. BER rating very low so insulation for walls etc. Radiators old or say heating system not far behind. Kitchens and bathrooms to be replaced. In itself not highly expensive but at the price and location id want it ready to move in.

Ray Palmer

Given people can't see where you would need to spend 50k-100k on them I don't think you would agree on what people would consider. I don't know Rathfarnam myself but it seems in keeping with the prices in the area if anything a little cheaper.

To expect a 2nd house to have modern decoration and new heating systems is an unreasonable expectation IMHO

Theboinkmaster

Ray Palmer wrote: »

To expect a 2nd house to have modern decoration and new heating systems is an unreasonable expectation IMHO

I don't expect any of those houses to be modern, im assuming once bought id put 50-100k into it.

Ray Palmer

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

I don't expect any of those houses to be modern, im assuming once bought id put 50-100k into it.

Your choice but I don't see where you would be spending other than your own taste. One of them is certainly walk in condition just not very modern.

spockety

Houses on that road like the first were selling for under €300K a couple of years ago.

They are worth whatever the market will pay for them (as pointed out). Someone would probably pay €450+ for them today so that's what they are 'worth'. The question is whether that represents value, and this is something pretty subjective.

Would I pay €450K for a house that could have been bought two years ago for €290K? Probably not, as to me it points to something very wrong with the current market. However my opinion matters buggery all to the guy who will buy it for €450K.

Are you that guy?

Theboinkmaster

spockety wrote: »

Are you that guy?

No I certainly am not but interested to see if others shared my opinion

MouseTail

What it was worth 2 years ago is as irrelevant as what it was worth 8 years ago
Some buy at the top, some at the bottom. What matters is what it is worth now, and are the payments affordable to the purchaser.

spockety

MouseTail wrote: »

What it was worth 2 years ago is as irrelevant as what it was worth 8 years ago
Some buy at the top, some at the bottom. What matters is what it is worth now, and are the payments affordable to the purchaser.

If that's what you believe then maybe you are that guy.

L1011

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

I don't expect any of those houses to be modern, im assuming once bought id put 50-100k into it.

On what?

Idbatterim

Would I pay €450K for a house that could have been bought two years ago for €290K? Probably not, as to me it points to something very wrong with the current market. However my opinion matters buggery all to the guy who will buy it for €450K.

this hits the nail on the head, the question then is though, do you keep on renting OR buy and compromise on the price you pay or compromise on the location / type / size of property...

Theboinkmaster

MYOB wrote: »

On what?

Insulation, knock down interior wall to create larger kitchen/living area, new kitchen and bathroom, plumbing and re-wire, new fireplaces etc, new flooring and carpets, painting etc. would easily add up to €100k

Idbatterim

my brother was watching this a few months ago, so I watched it with him. I believe this project all in cost 100,000. The prices being bandied about for doing up average sized houses is insane to be honest...

http://www.rte.ie/tv/roomtoimprove/s7ep2_gallery.html

L1011

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Insulation, knock down interior wall to create larger kitchen/living area, new kitchen and bathroom, plumbing and re-wire, new fireplaces etc, new flooring and carpets, painting etc. would easily add up to €100k

I'd really like to be your chosen contractor. 100k is insanity money for something of this size.

I'm fairly complete on an extensive renovation of a 1970s 3 bed terrace and I've spent less than 10k with probably 5k max left to spend. Haven't used external labour except for things where its essential - I can't fit windows - but it wouldn't add up to that much.

Those houses are new enough that they should have PVC coated copper wiring and copper piping - you neither need to rewire or replumb unless you've got capacity issues.

MouseTail

MYOB wrote: »

I'd really like to be your chosen contractor. 100k is insanity money for something of this size.

I'm fairly complete on an extensive renovation of a 1970s 3 bed terrace and I've spent less than 10k with probably 5k max left to spend. Haven't used external labour except for things where its essential - I can't fit windows - but it wouldn't add up to that much.

Those houses are new enough that they should have PVC coated copper wiring and copper piping - you neither need to rewire or replumb unless you've got capacity issues.

Me too, spent <40k on my renovation. I did use external labour (I can't hammer a nail straight), and the place was a wreck when I bought it, like water pouring in from the roof century old wreck. These houses need prettying up and a bit of insulation, not €100k worth of renovation! I know labour is starting to get expensive again, but not that expensive.

Idbatterim

If you have some idea of what you are talking about, can do some work yourself, i.e. preparation work, painting and can project manage, pay cash in hand, it can be done very reasonably...

hedgehog2

Why would you pay 450k on any of those houses,really this is madness.

snakeoilsales

Lot of estate agents on this site...

Craziness

Shylock needs a cruise.... its awfully cold these days....but not in Spain

snakeoilsales

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

First is in good nick, new carpets and some visual work on the wardrobes to make them look newer.

Second has the hallmarks of a badly maintained house, outdated appliances and heating pipes done the laziest way possible.

Both would need the bathrooms renovated. Neither would requires more then 20k to bring them up to a decent livable standard.

yeah right...

If you know the right people....

They are both structurally good houses but they are not worth those prices

But the rich Irish won't worry - they will pay

And both the estate agent and the builder will have a nice summer...

Right shylock???

snakeoilsales

hedgehog2 wrote: »

Why would you pay 450k on any of those houses,really this is madness.

Absolutely...it is craziness...

But remember the market is impriving...be nervous ...we are goiung back to 2007... don't forget, shylock needs stuff

hedgehog2

snakeoilsales wrote: »

Absolutely...it is craziness...

But remember the market is impriving...be nervous ...we are goiung back to 2007... don't forget, shylock needs stuff

I know its a different country but this is what you get on the west coast of America for less than 450k,my brother is looking at houses in this area and what you get for 250k dollars is incredible and the wages match it.
I would never pay that sort of money for the houses the op showed us.

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Murrieta/30206-Savoie-St-92563/home/21952536

L1011

The two (possibly more like 3) hours each way it'd take to get in to LA itself for work would put me off that. Traffic in the US is generally FAR worse than here so the equivalent to check would be what you'd get for 335k in Portlaoise or similar - bearing in mind we don't have the weather for the pool or outside cooking area unfortunately. Wouldn't be far off in scale/finish.

The town its in has its top ten employers mostly made up of the local retailers - to afford that you'd work in San Diego or LA.

hedgehog2

Its horses for courses really,of your work is there which my brothers is his luck is in.
But all over America you get houses like that at the sane price.

L1011

hedgehog2 wrote: »

Its horses for courses really,of your work is there which my brothers is his luck is in.
But all over America you get houses like that at the sane price.

In all cases, not somewhere particularly close to a place of employment. Identical house to mine might be $2,000 in Detroit (or less, actually) - not a huge amount of use there is it?

The house you gave us there is in a town with virtually no employment; everyone commutes. Compare to the same commute distance from a major employment centre here.

hedgehog2

Good luck,I am showing the madness for what it is you are trying to sell a siht oile as its yourcagenda

L1011

hedgehog2 wrote: »

Good luck,I am showing the madness for what it is you are trying to sell a siht oile as its yourcagenda

Could you repeat that legibly as I've no idea what you're trying to imply?

I'm not selling, or trying to sell anything - I'm just pointing out that your comparison is so flawed as to make it invalid.

focus_mad

OP for the first house you'd be looking at;

Upgrade of insulation (external insulation) (€8k - grant available)
Overhaul of boiler (grant available)
Knock a few internal walls (I.e the bathroom upstairs)
Fireplace replacement
Wardrobe replacement

Potential extension to the rear akin to next door?

Maybe €40k ballpark?

Second house:

Upgrade of insulation (external insulation) (€8k - grant available)
Overhaul of boiler (grant available)
Knock a few internal walls
Upgrade kitchen

Idbatterim

what the hell have the american references got to do with anything, we are talking about the property prices in D.16 etc? Its irrelevant, you can go outside of Dublin and find houses for below build cost if location isnt an issue...

dinnyirwin

hedgehog2 wrote: »

I know its a different country but this is what you get on the west coast of America for less than 450k,my brother is looking at houses in this area and what you get for 250k dollars is incredible and the wages match it.
I would never pay that sort of money for the houses the op showed us.

http://www.redfin.com/CA/Murrieta/30206-Savoie-St-92563/home/21952536

Nice house. If I buy it is it free delivery? how long does shipping take?

Glenbhoy

Being honest, I don't think these will go for the asking. I would imagine these houses will struggle to hit 400k. What does the ppr say?

Glenbhoy

So PPR says that a 4 bed semi on the same road went for 398 in December 2013. I think the asking is a wee bit optimistic and utterly unrealistic. Anyone know the square footage of the ballyroan road house?

I'd say 382K and for me, that's still nuts.

Idbatterim

Id say they will make in and around asking and if they dont soon, if the seller can play the waiting game, they will sooner rather than later IMO...

They are worth whatever the market will pay for them (as pointed out). Someone would probably pay €450+ for them today so that's what they are 'worth'. The question is whether that represents value, and this is something pretty subjective.

Would I pay €450K for a house that could have been bought two years ago for €290K? Probably not, as to me it points to something very wrong with the current market. However my opinion matters buggery all to the guy who will buy it for €450K.

post number 4 hits the nail on the head, it appears we are back to square one, if you dont pay it, someone else probably will, sooner rather than later & we are back to the leapfrogging situation...

Thing is, the poster says it points to something wrong in the market, is it wrong now or did it overshoot? Houses around me shot down to near stupidly cheap prices around 2010 I think, problem was people either couldnt borrow or were waiting for prices to drop further, fulfilling the self fulfilling prophecy, seems like we are back to the old familiar self fulfilling prophecy now... Many said we would have a soft landing and a muted recovery, certainly not what has happened in SOCODU atleast...

Theboinkmaster

Went to see houses Saturday and was depressing - same 50 couples at each with the same panic in their eyes, i will happily leave them to it.

The Dodder Park house has students renting there and there were beer cans and cigarettes everywhere! Superstar estate agent as you'd expect.

Both were in need of complete guttting - €100k at the very least, overheard many others say the same.

Had text from agent to say dodder park had offers up to €410k already, good luck to them!

I'm happy to stay renting for now and keep saving, absolutely madness.

Idbatterim

boinkmaster, is there a reason you are looking at primarily rathfarnham?

Went to see houses Saturday and was depressing - same 50 couples at each with the same panic in their eyes, i will happily leave them to it.

For those that say they will wait for the madness to calm down again, with this many showing for viewings, and there being very little up for sale, could someone tell me when they expect this to die down? At least during the boom, people saw apartments are far more viable than they do now, now people are all after the long term, semi d, 3-4 bed, good area family home...

Idbatterim

Both were in need of complete gutting - €100k at the very least, overheard many others say the same.

Why not say 80, 90 or 110 k though, is it because 100k is a nice round number? If you are prepared to do nothing yourself and get in a boom time builder, yes it could be that kind of money conceivably...

greenbicycle

What side of the road is the Dodder Park one on? As far as I remember these houses are prone to flooding. In fact I think some of the houses have had difficulty getting insurance due to this fact.

Something to consider/investigate before paying that price!

kennyb3

Idbatterim wrote: »

boinkmaster, is there a reason you are looking at primarily rathfarnham?

For those that say they will wait for the madness to calm down again, with this many showing for viewings, and there being very little up for sale, could someone tell me when they expect this to die down? At least during the boom, people saw apartments are far more viable than they do now, now people are all after the long term, semi d, 3-4 bed, good area family home...

I agree if people are going to wait it out, I think they should at least be prepared to do so for an extended period of time. I.e. not expect to be suddenly able to buy in 3-6 months time at prices much lower than today. In 2/3 years? Yeah, maybe, obviously depending on numerous factors. Make a decision now either way and stick with it! Don't get sucked in 3 months down the line at even higher prices (if that's the way things go - not saying they will).

I said it about 6 months ago - I don't see where the supply comes from.

Idbatterim

The Dodder Park house has students renting there and there were beer cans and cigarettes everywhere! Superstar estate agent as you'd expect.

If the presentation were poor and it put people off, this is the one I would be focusing on more, look, whether you are gutting a place that hasnt been touched since the 60's, 70's, 80's or even 90's, who cares what it looks like now, in fact the worse it looks, the better, the first thing most people are going to be doing is ripping everything out!

Idbatterim

I agree if people are going to wait it out, I think they should at least be prepared to do so for an extended period of time. I.e. not expect to be suddenly able to buy in 3-6 months time at prices much lower than today. In 2/3 years? Yeah, maybe, obviously depending on numerous factors. Make a decision now either way and stick with it! Don't get sucked in 3 months down the line at even higher prices (if that's the way things go - not saying they will).

I said it about 6 months ago - I don't see where the supply comes from.

Exactly, ok we know prices are up maybe 20% or below on the houses being discussed from the "bottom" how long before there is a potential fall in prices again "IF" things get out of hand again, 5/6 years? Even if they did, they would probably be down to about where they are now. It is unlikely they would collapse to the same extent again, given the insane sh*t storm that lead to collapse in the first place and the fact that even if the there is collusion here to force prices up and get the gravy train going again, Europe will have hawk eyes on us and now vetting our budgets etc, also its unlikely FF will be in again for quite some time. Price collapse of 50% etc again is nearly unthinkable, without another unimaginable sh*t storm at some point down the line. If I had the money to make a move now, I probably would, if I had it 2/3 years ago, I certainly would have.


I posted this in another thread a while back, titled "the madness has returned" it is a quote from the documentary, who's buying Ireland.

from the documentary "whos buying ireland" on rte earlier. neville isdell, former chairman and ceo of coca cola "the early adapters, the one's in the minority, have made a big mistake or they do very very well and in my view, its the minority who are normally right, because when the majority believe something, its already happened. he ended up buying the chq in the docklands.

http://www.politics.ie/forum/media/219054-whos-buying-ireland-rte-documentary-9-12-13-a.html

Theboinkmaster

Idbatterim wrote: »

If the presentation were poor and it put people off, this is the one I would be focusing on more, look, whether you are gutting a place that hasnt been touched since the 60's, 70's, 80's or even 90's, who cares what it looks like now, in fact the worse it looks, the better, the first thing most people are going to be doing is ripping everything out!

I completely agree - i was making the point to illustrate the apparent laziness of the EA.

Idbatterim

I completely agree - i was making the point to illustrate the apparent laziness of the EA.

obviously they reckon they are back to the point where they can get away with doing virtually nothing again, a sure someone will buy it... :rolleyes: I'm inserting a roll eyes, and unfortunately its a joke of a situation, but it's also true, someone will buy it.

chopper6

The Merry Go Round has started again...another bubble is on the way and this one will finish us off completely.

L1011

Theboinkmaster wrote: »

Both were in need of complete guttting - €100k at the very least, overheard many others say the same.

You still won't spent 100k on a "complete gutting" - can you let know when you do buy so I can put in a bid for the renovation work?

chopper6

MYOB wrote: »

You still won't spent 100k on a "complete gutting" - can you let know when you do buy so I can put in a bid for the renovation work?

I'm looking to have two rooms knocked into one for a good price PM me!

L1011

chopper6 wrote: »

I'm looking to have two rooms knocked into one for a good price PM me!

I'd be sub-contracting the work :pac: