Shannon Airport Thread [Mod Warning in First Post]

JCX BXC

Masala wrote: »

Personally.... I think that this new Stobart management are willing to take tough decisions. I would say that allowing Ryanair in on Manchester was like giving the 2-Fingers to Stobart. The SNN attitude of passenger growth at ALL cost (sure... whatl will Aer Arann do about it!!) attitude just backfired on them. Stobart are not Aer Arann.... that was then... this is now!!

If you mess your customers around .... what do you expect!! Plenty of airports would love to have Stobart. So... now they are off!!!

SNN will have a big hill to climb to get them back.

Does this mean that all their flights are finished..... the press release doesn't seem to say whether the flights will continue from the UK bases??

Agreeable post. As others have said, they may find more profit elsewhere and they got the middle finger from ryr.

Considering flights are no longer bookable, I'd say that they are all finished from SNN

Brennans Row

Growler!!! wrote: »

This was part of the problem for stobart. There were a good percentage of pax transferring on the early flights and Stobarts yeild from these pax was low without sufficient "locals" using the service except on weekends and match days to sustain the low load factor days.

The Birmingham and Manchester morning flights were perfectly scheduled to serve the Boston and New York routes.

All the press releases from Stobart had stated that they were very pleased with Shannon since the relaunch in May, up until Ryanair announced that they where starting a daily service to Manchester too.

That undermined the long term viability of the base.

Brennans Row

Masala wrote: »

I would say that allowing Ryanair in on Manchester was like giving the 2-Fingers to Stobart. The SNN attitude of passenger growth at ALL cost (sure... whatl will Aer Arann do about it!!) attitude just backfired on them. Stobart are not Aer Arann.... that was then... this is now!!

How can an Irish airport prevent two Irish airlines from competing on the same route?

Masala

Brennans Row wrote: »

How can an Irish airport prevent two Irish airlines from competing on the same route?

Well if it was me.... :

1. I would ask (no .. DEMAND) a full Route Analysis from the No.2 Airline justifying that the route needs additional capacity. It is up to them to justify to me why they should be on the route.
2. Have a 2nd set of Airport Charges that would be a MAX level of charges I could get away with ready to apply.
3. Put forward 'crap' available slot times that are set to suit the airport operations and suit the No. 1 airline on the route.
4. Get my solicitors to prepare an airtight contract for min 2-3 years contract with hefty cancellation terms.

That should do it.......

JCX BXC

Masala wrote: »

Well if it was me.... :

1. I would ask (no .. DEMAND) a full Route Analysis from the No.2 Airline justifying that the route needs additional capacity. It is up to them to justify to me why they should be on the route.
2. Have a 2nd set of Airport Charges that would be a MAX level of charges I could get away with ready to apply.
3. Put forward 'crap' available slot times that are set to suit the airport operations and suit the No. 1 airline on the route.
4. Get my solicitors to prepare an airtight contract for min 2 years contract with hefty cancellation terms.

That should do it.......

SNN-MAN 2:00 am - 3:00am
MAN-SNN 3:30am- 4:30 am

Masala

Carnacalla wrote: »

SNN-MAN 2:00 am - 3:00am
MAN-SNN 3:30am- 4:30 am

Well if you are 24hr operations.... perfect!!

JCX BXC

Shannon-Manchester looks to up to 10 flights a week from april next summer with a second flight on Mon,Wed and Fri

highlydebased

Ryanair's predatory entry onto routes of competitors is hardly a new game though, and to say the airport went looking for them to start flying to Manchester would be a little unfair

This post sums it up http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/200353-shannon-94.html#post8760773 - (not written by me for the record)

Brennans Row

Masala wrote: »

Well if it was me.... :

1. I would ask (no .. DEMAND) a full Route Analysis from the No.2 Airline justifying that the route needs additional capacity. It is up to them to justify to me why they should be on the route.
2. Have a 2nd set of Airport Charges that would be a MAX level of charges I could get away with ready to apply.
3. Put forward 'crap' available slot times that are set to suit the airport operations and suit the No. 1 airline on the route.
4. Get my solicitors to prepare an airtight contract for min 2-3 years contract with hefty cancellation terms.

That should do it.......

1. Ryanair would argue that Aer Lingus Regional were flying three times daily to Manchester.

2. Shannon has a scaled range of charges at their disposal to develop routes. They would hardly offer Ryanair a discounted rate that would undermine another carrier on the same route.

3. Shannon is not Heathrow, slots are not a bargaining issue at Shannon!

4. Even the mighty DAA backed down in the past with Michael O'Leary where he reneged on fulfilling a former contract with Shannon. In the real world, Shannon is too small to say no Ryanair.

JCX BXC

Brennans Row wrote: »

3. Shannon is not Heathrow, slots are not a bargaining issue at Shannon!

From what I have read over a number of fourms is that a few years back when the DAA controlled Shannon, Aer Lingus wanted to start a daily service to CDG, but the DAA would not let them have morning or evening slots, which meant that it wouldn't really compete with the flights from Dublin and cork as the times did not suit businessmen. They were allowed to fly at 4pm, which was ultimately a failure.

If they could do it then, why couldnt they do it now.

Jamie2k9

Carnacalla wrote: »

From what I have read over a number of fourms is that a few years back when the DAA controlled Shannon, Aer Lingus wanted to start a daily service to CDG, but the DAA would not let them have morning or evening slots, which meant that it wouldn't really compete with the flights from Dublin and cork as the times did not suit businessmen. They were allowed to fly at 4pm, which was ultimately a failure.

If they could do it then, why couldnt they do it now.

daa would not of done such a thing. CDG most likely wouldn't allow the slots. Such a route would not be viable anyway. Air France proved that.

Growler!!!

Carnacalla wrote: »

During October an average of 138 people flew between Shannon and Birmingham per day. Even on 2 flights a day at 42 seats each way, the load factors were up in their 70's(%)
Although during midweek there was only 1 flight a day on certain days.

Tell me how low the pax nums are again.

I think someone doesn't understand load factor (number of pax) with yeild (profit per pax). The average is high because of higher numbers at weekends and transfer pax. But the yeild was low enough that they have pulled the plug on all operations there. Why? Because it was loss making. How much do you think STK were getting from the transfer pax whose ticket price was predominantly made up of the transatlantic sector? Very little.

Cosmo Kramer

Difficult though it may be to stop Ryanair attacking other airlines, it really seems like Shannon should have done more to help Stobart here. When Ryanair pulled their multi aircraft base at Shannon a few years ago they were delighted to have Aer Arann/Aer Lingus Regional come down from Galway and fill the gap. However, as soon as Ryanair have shown any interest in the airport, management seem to have turned their back on Stobart (as they are now known) in favour of Ryanair.

This seems to me like the kind of approach that can affect airlines' view of an airport. What incentive is there for any short haul airline to go to Shannon now? Despite whatever start up offers management can give to airlines there's no benefit when they will allow Ryanair to run them out of town in time anyway.

Shannon need to remember that one of the main reasons for Ryanair's current interest is that they can use them as a pawn in their ongoing battle with the DAA over charges, specifically with regard to Cork. Once they have forced Cork's independence from the DAA (which seems inevitable) they will happily play Shannon and Cork off against each other over charges in an unsustainable race to the bottom with some routes moving (or moving back) to Cork.

Stobart were ideal for Shannon with smaller aircraft and better flight timings. They should have bent over backwards to keep them.

JCX BXC

Growler!!! wrote: »

I think someone doesn't understand load factor (number of pax) with yeild (profit per pax). The average is high because of higher numbers at weekends and transfer pax. But the yeild was low enough that they have pulled the plug on all operations there. Why? Because it was loss making. How much do you think STK were getting from the transfer pax whose ticket price was predominantly made up of the transatlantic sector? Very little.

I can understand that obivously at the weekend pax was higher, but during the midweek the flights went down to 1 per week on certain days, so that may even out.
And, why would skt transfer the pax if they were not going to make money out of it??

vkid

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

daa would not of done such a thing.
Don't agree with that at all.

Such a route would not be viable anyway. Air France proved that.

Cityjet were charging silly money for tickets on that route. It was never going to work.

Brennans Row

According to the Clare Champion, Michael O’Leary is due to give a press conference at Shannon on Monday morning and it is possible that Ryanair may be set to announce new routes.

The Independent writes that Stobart Air boss Julian Carr resigns after just six months in Job.

Cosmo Kramer

Ryanair could well jump straight on to the Stobart routes. Whether that is the best thing for Shannon longer term is certainly open to debate though.

Henry Ford III

I hope MOL announces new routes. Any loss to SNN could hurt badly.

JCX BXC

According to the shannon airport newsletter
Us airways are increasing the Philadelphia flights by 58% next year, starting in early may and ending in september.

Is that really 58%? Are they doing a second daily flight on some days?


In other news, the Shannon airport Santa flight booking crashed, booking will not be avalible until Monday at 12pm

ZUL10

Carnacalla wrote: »

According to the shannon airport newsletter
Us airways are increasing the Philadelphia flights by 58% next year, starting in early may and ending in september.

Is that really 58%? Are they doing a second daily flight on some days?


In other news, the Shannon airport Santa flight booking crashed, booking will not be avalible until Monday at 12pm

The sums would suggest an increase of 4 per week.

JCX BXC

ZUL10 wrote: »

The sums would suggest an increase of 4 per week.

They have an extra 86 flights by increasing the season. The flights now start 15 days earlier on the 8th of may, and finish 23 days later on the 29th of september. The Shannon Aiport newsletter states an extra 114 flights, that leaves 28 flights un-accounted for. (Remember a return flight counts as 2 flights)

Brennans Row

Private Sky, Ireland's largest business jet operator based at Shannon Airport recently added two new brand new aircraft types to its growing fleet, the Citation X and Gulfstream G650.

The Citation X is currently the fastest civilian aircraft in the world. As it is the fastest civilian aircraft in the world it will be perfect for transatlantic flights as it will get it's passengers to their destinations much quicker than any other civilian aircraft.

The G650 will be based in Vnukovo Moscow and will operate privately.

Irish Aviation Research Institute ©

stevielenihan

Shannon Airport will reach 1.60 Million passengers this year. That will be closer to 2 Million next year. Ryanair have now shown they are committed to Shannon to grow and develove routes for the airport. Starbot Are A great airline but they made a huge mistake in closing thier base completly at Shannon. Shannon is by far the best airport in Ireland. Cork is still been ruined by the DAA. Shannon has freedom and is the best airport in the country. The DAA is usless and scrap at running airports. Starbot will reget leaving Shannon and will be dying to come back.

JCX BXC

stevielenihan wrote: »

Shannon Airport will reach 1.60 Million passengers this year. That will be closer to 2 Million next year. Ryanair have now shown they are committed to Shannon to grow and develove routes for the airport. Starbot Are A great airline but they made a huge mistake in closing thier base completly at Shannon. Shannon is by far the best airport in Ireland. Cork is still been ruined by the DAA. Shannon has freedom and is the best airport in the country. The DAA is usless and scrap at running airports. Starbot will reget leaving Shannon and will be dying to come back.

I don't think stobart will be 'flying' back to Shannon anytime soon. They have left and returned to the Shannon market several times, so I'd say this was the last time it will leave.

Shannon will reach I'd say nearer to 1.7mil next year and 1.9mil in 2015, I cannot confirm this but it's an educated guess.

Ryanair are committed to Shannon? Despite what the SAA tries to tell people, Ryanair will never be committed to any airport on the west coast.

stevielenihan

Carnacalla wrote: »

I don't think stobart will be 'flying' back to Shannon anytime soon. They have left and returned to the Shannon market several times, so I'd say this was the last time it will leave.

Shannon will reach I'd say nearer to 1.7mil next year and 1.9mil in 2015, I cannot confirm this but it's an educated guess.

Ryanair are committed to Shannon? Despite what the SAA tries to tell people, Ryanair will never be committed to any airport on the west coast.





I am a friend of MOL and he says Ryanair are commited to Shannon. They wouldnt have added new routes otherwise. Stobart will reget leaving Shannon. There is other airlines to replace them anyway. Shannon will be 1.60 Million this year.

Cosmo Kramer

stevielenihan wrote: »

Shannon Airport will reach 1.60 Million passengers this year. That will be closer to 2 Million next year. Ryanair have now shown they are committed to Shannon to grow and develove routes for the airport. Starbot Are A great airline but they made a huge mistake in closing thier base completly at Shannon. Shannon is by far the best airport in Ireland. Cork is still been ruined by the DAA. Shannon has freedom and is the best airport in the country. The DAA is usless and scrap at running airports. Starbot will reget leaving Shannon and will be dying to come back.

I'm sure Starbot are just doing what is best for Starbot...

And, while I'm sure others will have different opinions, in factual terms it is pretty difficult to argue for any airport other than Dublin to be the best in the country, for numerous fairly obvious reasons.

Cosmo Kramer

stevielenihan wrote: »

I am a friend of MOL and he says Ryanair are commited to Shannon. They wouldnt have added new routes otherwise. Stobart will reget leaving Shannon. There is other airlines to replace them anyway. Shannon will be 1.60 Million this year.

Stuff like this is what keeps me coming back to this thread.

JCX BXC

stevielenihan wrote: »

I am a friend of MOL and he says Ryanair are commited to Shannon. They wouldnt have added new routes otherwise. Stobart will reget leaving Shannon. There is other airlines to replace them anyway. Shannon will be 1.60 Million this year.

Even if you happen to know MOL personally, he will be gone if Shannon even raises its charges by a cent.

The problem of stobart leaving Shannon is that it will damage T/A services, as you can no longer make connections in Shannon, (except for the westwards flight, you can connect onto London Heathrow, but I very much doubt that is popular).

No other airlines can offer protected connections on T/A flights. So Ryanairs Manchester service has severely damaged Shannon

Cosmo Kramer

Carnacalla wrote: »

You got your quotes mixed up;)

Apologies Carnacalla - fixed now.

Brennans Row

Shannon transatlantic figures take off in 2015 (Clare Herald)

An extra 46,000 seats will be available on USA services to Shannon next year, representing an 11% increase, as Aer Lingus, Delta and American Airlines increase frequencies and capacity on their services.