Badger Set

colmfitz

Hi Can anyone give me an exact location of a Badger set in the Dublin area, im a keen wildlife photographer, (see my site www.colmfitzpatrick.net) and i would love to photograph this animal, i realise this is sensitive information to give out, so it could be sent via personal message ?

BillyBoy13

I dont know if you would be willing to travel (Louth), but I have badgers living in my garden, along with pheasants and rabbits too. Also get the odd fox skulking about if that takes your fancy.

colmfitz

Thanks for the quick response, if you can PM me the details that would be great

OpenYourEyes

Looks like you might need a license from the NPWS - see Here

And here's a good code of ethics from the Northern Ireland Environment Agency, to help ensure any impact on the subject is minimised and that they don't abandon their sett or get stressed.


I'm posting the above not just for the OP's benefit, but for the benefit of anyone photographing wild animals or birds this year. I've posted elsewhere of the damage and negative impact people can have on wildlife when taking pictures, even when it's completely unintentional.

BillyBoy13

I actually didnt know you needed to have a licence for photographing protected animals.

Colm if you have the licence pm me, otherwise its gonna have to be a no-go Im afraid, as Im already having issues with the NPWS as it stands Last thing I need is for something like this come back and bite me in the ass.

colmfitz

Thanks for the info billyboy, its all news to me too, did not know the Badger was a protected species, thanks for your interest all the same.

Colm

colmfitz

Actually, does anyone know how i go about getting a license from the NPWS to photograph such animals, is it possible to get one ?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Application forms are available on the link above.

OpenYourEyes

colmfitz wrote: »

Thanks for the info billyboy, its all news to me too, did not know the Badger was a protected species, thanks for your interest all the same.

Colm

All native animals and birds are protected to the best of my knowledge.

BillyBoy13

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

All native animals and birds are protected to the best of my knowledge.

I dont think so, certain mammals are classed as vermin and dont have any protection. Like rats and rabbits just say.

Birds on the other hand are protected at an EU level- all birds. But the minister has to continuously get us permission to kill them if they are causing problems. Under derogation really. So say the pigeon or magpie normally protected but if they start damaging crops in fields then they are no longer protected and you can kill them.

Same with deer. If the deer come along and start breaking fences, knocking ditches you can apply for a section 42 and have someone kill them for you at any time of the year.

I heard tell of another section for hunting clubs. I think if , say a hunter comes and finds a protected animal- even say a stoat in the pheasent pen eating and killing pheasants. Obviously he cant go applying for permission to move him..... basically he has to act right there and then and can do whatever has to be done to protect the rest of the pheasants. But my understanding on that is a little hazy. You might want to check it out properly before you go shooting a buzzard thats got into your chicken coop :P

But not been allowed to photograph protected animals is a new one on me.

OpenYourEyes

BillyBoy13 wrote: »

I dont think so, certain mammals are classed as vermin and dont have any protection. Like rats and rabbits just say.

Birds on the other hand are protected at an EU level- all birds. But the minister has to continuously get us permission to kill them if they are causing problems. Under derogation really. So say the pigeon or magpie normally protected but if they start damaging crops in fields then they are no longer protected and you can kill them.

Same with deer. If the deer come along and start breaking fences, knocking ditches you can apply for a section 42 and have someone kill them for you at any time of the year.

I heard tell of another section for hunting clubs. I think if , say a hunter comes and finds a protected animal- even say a stoat in the pheasent pen eating and killing pheasants. Obviously he cant go applying for permission to move him..... basically he has to act right there and then and can do whatever has to be done to protect the rest of the pheasants. But my understanding on that is a little hazy. You might want to check it out properly before you go shooting a buzzard thats got into your chicken coop :P

But not been allowed to photograph protected animals is a new one on me.

Ah yeah but Brown Rats and Rabbits aren't native, so I was right . But yeah Deer are protected, unless you get that license, and even then it only allows you to carry out specific actions to control them.

Yeah I'm almost certain you're wrong about that in terms of hunting clubs and protected animals. Srameen might be able to shed some light on it, but its not something I'd go spreading around unless you know it to be true for sure!

magicbastarder

some of the laws are outdated - certainly in relation to nestbox cameras. you're not allowed photograph birds on the nest, as this might disturb the birds, but the law was written before the days you could buy nestboxes with built in cameras.

OpenYourEyes

magicbastarder wrote: »

some of the laws are outdated - certainly in relation to nestbox cameras. you're not allowed photograph birds on the nest, as this might disturb the birds, but the law was written before the days you could buy nestboxes with built in cameras.

Thats true!
But I will highlight the fact that there's a huge difference between nestbox cameras and a photographer going and taking pictures of breeding birds or mammals.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

BillyBoy13 wrote: »

I heard tell of another section for hunting clubs. I think if , say a hunter comes and finds a protected animal- even say a stoat in the pheasent pen eating and killing pheasants. Obviously he cant go applying for permission to move him..... basically he has to act right there and then and can do whatever has to be done to protect the rest of the pheasants

All I'll say is that this is totally untrue and actually quite dangerous to suggest.

I agree that the wording of the legislation needs amending to account for nest box cameras but can assure you nobody would be prosecuted for using a pre-installed camera in a "domestic" nest box.

BillyBoy13

Carmen Little Sandal wrote: »

All I'll say is that this is totally untrue and actually quite dangerous to suggest.

Well you might want to take that up with the NARGC... it was said at one of their meetings.

BillyBoy13

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

Ah yeah but Brown Rats and Rabbits aren't native, so I was right .

Are fox not native?

OpenYourEyes

BillyBoy13 wrote: »

Are fox not native?

Protected under the Irish Wildlife Act 1976 and the Amendment in 2000.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

BillyBoy13 wrote: »

Well you might want to take that up with the NARGC... it was said at one of their meetings.

A. It's not my job or position to take it up with anybody.

B. Because somebody from a gun club said so doesn't make it correct.

C. Next time you are at an NARGC meeting perhaps you'll enlighten them or ask them to be more specific.

henryporter

Funny how these threads spiral off topic with generalisations and unrelated opinions. The OP asked about a location to 'shoot' some badgers - the responses about needing a licence and a potential location in Louth were the only two relevant points IMO.

Anyways if you do get a licence there's some setts near me here in Monaghan (an hour up the road from Dublin). Also nice job on the photos on your site. The cheeky fox posing for a shot is great.

BillyBoy13

Carmen Little Sandal wrote: »

A. It's not my job or position to take it up with anybody.

B. Because somebody from a gun club said so doesn't make it correct.

OK thats fair enough, but if your not willing to backup what your saying you could least refrain from telling others they are completely wrong if your not sure yourself especially when they have been told otherwise by an organisation that holds a bit more weight than a stranger over the internet.

By the way NARGC are a game counsel who have written books and give lectures on wildlife acts and have gone through court cases dealing with said acts.... they are not a gun club as you suggest.

Carmen Little Sandal wrote: »

C. Next time you are at an NARGC meeting perhaps you'll enlighten them or ask them to be more specific.

Dont worry. I plan on it. And I'll get back to you with the exact legislation, the last time they were talking about it I really didnt care too much for it and was only half listening.

BillyBoy13

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

Protected under the Irish Wildlife Act 1976 and the Amendment in 2000.

Im not asking that. Im asking are they native?

BillyBoy13

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

Protected under the Irish Wildlife Act 1976 and the Amendment in 2000.

Now that you mention that, I had a quick look at the wildlife act on irishstatutebook.ie and fox arent mentioned as been protected.

Protection of fauna other than protected wild birds........which are of a species of fauna in relation to which section 23 of this Act applies shall be protected.


Section 23.


Badger
Bat species
Deer species
Hare species
Hedgehog
Otter
Pine Marten
Red Squirrel
Dolphin species
Porpoise species
Seal species
Whale species
Natterjack Toad

Unless they are covered somewhere else perhaps?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

BillyBoy13 wrote: »

OK thats fair enough, but if your not willing to backup what your saying you could least refrain from telling others they are completely wrong if your not sure yourself especially when they have been told otherwise by an organisation that holds a bit more weight than a stranger over the internet.

By the way NARGC are a game counsel who have written books and give lectures on wildlife acts and have gone through court cases dealing with said acts.... they are not a gun club as you suggest.



Dont worry. I plan on it. And I'll get back to you with the exact legislation, the last time they were talking about it I really didnt care too much for it and was only half listening.

I am certain of what I said and at no time said I was uncertain. Your example of a stoat being dispatched while raiding a pheasent pen was an example of an illegal act. Pure and simple. I know. I prosecuted many a case under our wildlife legislation. You yourself admit to not fully listening to what was said at the NARGC meeting and perhaps should refrain from quoting them without clarifying exactly what was said?

Now as to your other questions on Foxes. There is actually quite an amount of dispute as to whether they are native or not. They can be positively traced to being present 5000 years ago but there is growing evidence that they may have been here 10000 years ago. It is also accepted that their numbers were certainly boosted by introducted individuals in more recent times. Because of this uncertanty Foxes are not a protected species under wildlife legislation. However, they do benefit from limited protection from animal cruelty laws and of cousrse all hunting activities are regulated by law(even when the hunting activity targets species which are not 'protected species').

Apologies OP and Mods for this detour from the topic but I suppose any question on photographing protected species was bound to tilt this way.

magicbastarder

henryporter wrote: »

Funny how these threads spiral off topic with generalisations and unrelated opinions.

a thread which detours into other topics is often more interesting for it.

dodderangler

BillyBoy13 wrote: »

Now that you mention that, I had a quick look at the wildlife act on irishstatutebook.ie and fox arent mentioned as been protected.



Unless they are covered somewhere else perhaps?

Fox in Ireland are vermin so I don't see how they're protected
Fox
Rabbit
Muntjac
Grey squirrel
Mink
Feral Goats can be shot all year round

BillyBoy13

dodderangler wrote: »

Fox in Ireland are vermin so I don't see how they're protected
Fox
Rabbit
Muntjac
Grey squirrel
Mink
Feral Goats can be shot all year round

I never said they were protected.... it was the moderator openyoureyes that said they were protected by the wildlife act

I just wanted to know if they were native.

Joeseph Balls

BillyBoy13 wrote: »

OK thats fair enough, but if your not willing to backup what your saying you could least refrain from telling others they are completely wrong if your not sure yourself especially when they have been told otherwise by an organisation that holds a bit more weight than a stranger over the internet.

Didnt you just do that too?

BillyBoy13 wrote: »

By the way NARGC are a game counsel who have written books and give lectures on wildlife acts and have gone through court cases dealing with said acts.... they are not a gun club as you suggest.



Dont worry. I plan on it. And I'll get back to you with the exact legislation, the last time they were talking about it I really didnt care too much for it and was only half listening.

I can tell you right now you're wrong. I hunt myself and one of the first things you should do as a hunter is become aware of the laws. I dont think a protected native species getting into your pen and killing non native pheasants gives you permision to kill them.
Not a dig at you personnaly but this sort of thinking is what gives hunters a bad name.

dodderangler

BillyBoy13 wrote: »

I never said they were protected.... the moderator openyoureyes said they were protected by the wildlife act

I just wanted to know if they were native.

Oh sorry my bad.
Foxes have been in Ireland over 5000 years apparently maybe back to ice age.
But there were a lot of foxes brought in for fur in 1800s and 1900s and they flourished then
So yes I'd consider them native

BillyBoy13

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

Didnt you just do that too?

No. Because Im willing to standby what I said and Im going to back it up with the appropiate info after next months meeting. However when I asked him about it he basically said its not his problem and that if I want it I should get it myself [though not in so many words mind you].

So no, its not the same thing.

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

I can tell you right now you're wrong. I hunt myself and one of the first things you should do as a hunter is become aware of the laws.

And what laws did you learn? Was it just our wildlife acts along with criminal justice and firearm acts (and the various amendments added to each of those acts over the years) or did you go and learn all the EU stuff too?

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

Not a dig at you personnaly but this sort of thinking is what gives hunters a bad name.

Well Im not a hunter.... just someone that has an interest in Irish wildlife to be honest

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

BillyBoy13 wrote: »

No. Because Im willing to standby what I said and Im going to back it up with the appropiate info after next months meeting. However when I asked him about it he basically said its not his problem

Can we just clarify this, please?. You said you thought you heard something at a meeting. That something was incorrect and you think I should raise it with the organisation you think said it? As a private individual I have no involvement with this group and have no desire to tell them somebody misinterpreted something one of their people once said. Why should I? You are the one with the now conflicting information, so you can have it clarified if you feel the need. I don't need to as I know which is correct. When did I ever suggest I was unsure of my facts? You are the one who thought you heard something and even admitted to not listening very closely?

BillyBoy13

Carmen Little Sandal wrote: »

Thought you heard something at a meeting.

misinterpreted something one of their people once said.

You are the one who thought you heard somethin

even admitted to not listening very closely?

No, I never said I was only half sure of what was said. Why do you keep insisting thats what I said?

If you take the time to read my replies you will see that the bit I was only half listening to was where exactly it falls in law.... because quite frankly, it will never apply to me.

I do however remember quite clearly that he kept stressing to everyone that you cant just shoot first because its in the pen... that you have to try everything within your means to get it out.

But either way, like I said, I'll come back with the exact legislation after next months meeting.

BillyBoy13

By the way... Im gonna leave it at this until I can get more information otherwise we will just end up going around in circles all night arguing about who said what and still not getting anywhere.

OpenYourEyes

OK I think I'm going to lock this thread. It's just going to keep drifting more off topic the longer its open.

In response to the OP's original request I highlighted that you need a license from the NPWS to photograph protected species. The majority of our mammals and all of our birds are protected species.

I will echo what Joseph Balls said, and say that photographers should be familiar with the laws with regards photography in Ireland and if they are taking pictures of wild animals or birds they should do their research BEFORE going out to take the pictures, and apply for the relevant license if necessary. Just like a good hunter should research the laws regarding wildlife, firearms etc. In my experience there are more hunters familiar with the laws relevant to them than there are wildlife photographers.



Billboy13 in your statement about your understanding of the law from an NARGC meeting you stressed that you weren't fully sure. I am confident both from my own knowledge of wildlife laws, and from the experience Srameen has, that what you said/heard is incorrect. In light of the knowledge that your statement was not true, I'm sure you can see how damaging spreading that kind of information when you're not sure can be.

Feel free to PM me if you find a section of the law that contradicts us.