Is there a rental shortage in Dublin?

bacon?

Hi there, I've been away for a while. I was talking to my sister, who's living in Dublin and she says theres currently a shortage of rental property in Dublin.

Is this true? and why is this?

djimi

Yes, very much so in certain areas.

D3PO

Depends what you mean by shortage. Its well acknowledged there are less rental properties available in Dublin now than there were in the previous few years. So the result is that with demand remaining static or actually increasing its more difficult to find suitable accommodation to rent.

However Ive never heard of a tenant going homeless because they couldn't find somewhere to rent so I find the whole rental shortage thing as being blown out of all proportion.


as to how is this possible. Its simple supply and demand, more demand less supply = "shortage"

jon1981

In Dublin, no. In areas most people want to rent, yes. Also I just moved out of a place in D6 which was 1200 for a 2bed, is now up for 1400.

syklops

bacon? wrote: »

Hi there, I've been away for a while. I was talking to my sister, who's living in Dublin and she says theres currently a shortage of rental property in Dublin.

Is this true? and why is this?

There sure is.

Why? My own theory is:

Housing boom -> property is where its at, buy or build lots! -> property bubble -> property is too expensive -> bubble bursts -> massive lack of jobs -> property is not where its at, don't buy or build any! ->despite lack of jobs population increases a bit -> properties decrease in number through usual shrinkage -> economy improves -> people get jobs -> people want to rent -> shortage of rental properties -> real lack of quality properties.

Im searching for a rental in Dublin at the minute. Total nightmare. Shame daft doesnt have an option you can tick called "decent", which would filter out the dives and converted garages.

Went to see a place last Monday. Had the deposit on me. The ad went up at 9am, I went to see it at 12.30, 9 other people turned up. They wanted references from both work and former landlord. Someone else won the beauty pageant.

syklops

jon1981 wrote: »

In Dublin, no. In areas most people want to rent, yes. Also I just moved out of a place in D6 which was 1200 for a 2bed, is now up for 1400.

Where do people want to rent that isnt in Dublin?

jon1981

syklops wrote: »

Where do people want to rent that isnt in Dublin?

Forgive me for not being precise ... "Areas within Dublin that most people want to rent", I'm not hearing much about rental issues in west Dublin or further out.

djimi

jon1981 wrote: »

Forgive me for not being precise ... "Areas within Dublin that most people want to rent", I'm not hearing much about rental issues in west Dublin or further out.

There is a rental shortage as far out as Naas at the moment (and possibly even further out).

TheDoc

Personally looking to move from apartment into house, still to rent, as we have a baby on the way.

Bit of a struggle alright to see some options, and some less then impressive properties going for outrageously high prices .

Ray Palmer

I can say that I went to rent a house in Dublin 5 and had 3 people call me before I put it on the market. Even after I rented it out to one of them I got calls from more people. That was without any advertisement.

It kind of shows how desperate people are and how people are on the look out constantly for themselves and for friends.

gaius c

bacon? wrote: »

Hi there, I've been away for a while. I was talking to my sister, who's living in Dublin and she says theres currently a shortage of rental property in Dublin.

Is this true? and why is this?

The figures:
Early 2009 saw almost 9,000 properties to let in Dublin on daft.ie
Today, it's exactly 1,600
That's a huge decrease in supply.

D3PO

yes its a huge decrease in supply but to me a shortage means there is no supply. Its just a tightening in supply and demand.

Perhaps Im arguing semantics but a shortage means you cant find somewhere to rent and its used because it makes for a better headline in reports.

ive yet to hear of somebody go homeless because they couldn't find somewhere to rent.

DoubtingMary72

D3PO wrote: »

yes its a huge decrease in supply but to me a shortage means there is no supply. Its just a tightening in supply and demand.

Perhaps Im arguing semantics but a shortage means you cant find somewhere to rent and its used because it makes for a better headline in reports.

ive yet to hear of somebody go homeless because they couldn't find somewhere to rent.

Definition of shortage in English from the Oxford English Dictionary:
shortage

NOUN
a state or situation in which something needed cannot be obtained in sufficient amounts:
a shortage of hard cash
food shortages

D3PO

DoubtingMary72 wrote: »

Definition of shortage in English from the Oxford English Dictionary:
shortage

NOUN
a state or situation in which something needed cannot be obtained in sufficient amounts:
a shortage of hard cash
food shortages

Im well aware of the definition of the word shortage. Rentals in Dublin can be obtained so therefore it is not a shortage.

again I say show me a person who has been made homeless due to their failure to be able to find a rental property .....

Rental property shortage is a term used to sell papers nothing more. All it is is a tightening in supply.

1,600 properties to rent is not insufficient housing stock its just tight supply.

Del2005

D3PO wrote: »

Im well aware of the definition of the word shortage. Rentals in Dublin can be obtained so therefore it is not a shortage.

again I say show me a person who has been made homeless due to their failure to be able to find a rental property .....

Rental property shortage is a term used to sell papers nothing more. All it is is a tightening in supply.

1,600 properties to rent is not insufficient housing stock its just tight supply.

People may not be homeless but they are having to rent in places that they didn't want to (longer journey to work or school), except a lower standard or pay more to live where they want. If there wasn't a shortage rents would be static, rising with inflation or decreasing.

DoubtingMary72

D3PO wrote: »

Im well aware of the definition of the word shortage. Rentals in Dublin can be obtained so therefore it is not a shortage.

again I say show me a person who has been made homeless due to their failure to be able to find a rental property .....

Rental property shortage is a term used to sell papers nothing more. All it is is a tightening in supply.

1,600 properties to rent is not insufficient housing stock its just tight supply.

? Not meaning to be disrespectful but I dont think you do understand the concept I shortage as most people define it. Anyway, best of luck to you.

Michael D Not Higgins

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I can say that I went to rent a house in Dublin 5 and had 3 people call me before I put it on the market. Even after I rented it out to one of them I got calls from more people. That was without any advertisement.

It kind of shows how desperate people are and how people are on the look out constantly for themselves and for friends.

How are they hearing about it? Did you have a sign on the property or were they all word of mouth from the previous tenants?

D3PO

DoubtingMary72 wrote: »

? Not meaning to be disrespectful but I dont think you do understand the concept I shortage as most people define it. Anyway, best of luck to you.

I just believe in calling a spade a spade is all.

A tightening in supply is a tightening in supply. Which will lead to increased competition and increased prices as the number of desirable properties reduces.

A shortage is a situation where more demand than supply exists.

I hate reading exaggerated reports in the media which a load of hyperbole just to make an article more appealing to read.

gaius c

D3PO wrote: »

I just believe in calling a spade a spade is all.

A tightening in supply is a tightening in supply. Which will lead to increased competition and increased prices as the number of desirable properties reduces.

A shortage is a situation where more demand than supply exists.

I hate reading exaggerated reports in the media which a load of hyperbole just to make an article more appealing to read.

So by your definition there is actually a surplus of rental supply at present and there will remain a surplus until people actually end up homeless because it flipped and suddenly became a shortage.

I can see where your technically correct definition comes from but I think you are forgetting that a normal market has a certain amount of elasticity in the supply chain or it won't be able to absorb shocks or fluctuations in supply/demand. Right now, that buffer is getting cut to extreme levels. There's no reports of people actually going homeless on the streets but there's plenty of people living in places far below their expectations in order to avoid being homeless for a time. There's also plenty of people who were defacto homeless because they needed to stay with friends or family in order to avoid being properly homeless.

I should know. I was part of the second group.

D3PO

I agree there has to be a certain level of elasticity in the market and don't for one second believe all 1600 of those available properties are up to reasonable rental standards. That said theres a difference between somebody saying I cant rent a 2 bed apt in (Insert area) anymore because of the rental shortage and somebody saying I cant rent a 2 bed apt in (insert area) for the price Im willing to pay because rents are going upwards.

Theres a lot of the second going on to which people then attribute to a shortage of properties and its not reflective of reality.

Its like a lot of the threads on here you see recently. "My LL is taking back his property and I cant find anywhere in the arrea to rent for the same price type stuff on here."

Ive rarely read posts saying my LL is taking back his property but I cant actually find something else in the area available.

Not being able to afford the increased rents in this current market and not being able to find somewhere due to supply are two very different things but everybody likes to blame it on supply.

Whilst inherently supply drives demand drives prices. Increased prices just mean renters who are paying at the top end of their budget need to realize that just like homeowners if you cant afford your desired area you cant live there.

handlemaster

When the developers start building again and banks lend more for mortgages the rents will cone down in Dublin.

Ray Palmer

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

How are they hearing about it? Did you have a sign on the property or were they all word of mouth from the previous tenants?

Previous tenant told one person the others were told by neighbours. Rented it to a friend of the next door neighbour so great for good relationships with them. I guess they could fall out with each other but I would think it is less likely than "normal" arguments between tenants and neighbours.

Ray Palmer

D3PO wrote: »

I agree there has to be a certain level of elasticity in the market and don't for one second believe all 1600 of those available properties are up to reasonable rental standards. That said theres a difference between somebody saying I cant rent a 2 bed apt in (Insert area) anymore because of the rental shortage and somebody saying I cant rent a 2 bed apt in (insert area) for the price Im willing to pay because rents are going upwards.

Theres a lot of the second going on to which people then attribute to a shortage of properties and its not reflective of reality.

Its like a lot of the threads on here you see recently. "My LL is taking back his property and I cant find anywhere in the arrea to rent for the same price type stuff on here."

Ive rarely read posts saying my LL is taking back his property but I cant actually find something else in the area available.

Not being able to afford the increased rents in this current market and not being able to find somewhere due to supply are two very different things but everybody likes to blame it on supply.

Whilst inherently supply drives demand drives prices. Increased prices just mean renters who are paying at the top end of their budget need to realize that just like homeowners if you cant afford your desired area you cant live there.

There seems to be plenty of threads with people saying their rent is going up and they can no longer afford to live in the same area. So that certainly is less supply in their eyes. Meanwhile the LL don't seem to be coming on saying they can't rent their property. The prices are going up due to lack of supply in the first place.
It sounds like you are substituting your version of reality with actual reality.
It is hard to find a place and rents are going up around the place. You know the normal signs of limited supply regardless of why or theories.

gaius c

D3PO wrote: »

I agree there has to be a certain level of elasticity in the market and don't for one second believe all 1600 of those available properties are up to reasonable rental standards. That said theres a difference between somebody saying I cant rent a 2 bed apt in (Insert area) anymore because of the rental shortage and somebody saying I cant rent a 2 bed apt in (insert area) for the price Im willing to pay because rents are going upwards.

Theres a lot of the second going on to which people then attribute to a shortage of properties and its not reflective of reality.

Its like a lot of the threads on here you see recently. "My LL is taking back his property and I cant find anywhere in the arrea to rent for the same price type stuff on here."

Ive rarely read posts saying my LL is taking back his property but I cant actually find something else in the area available.

Not being able to afford the increased rents in this current market and not being able to find somewhere due to supply are two very different things but everybody likes to blame it on supply.

Whilst inherently supply drives demand drives prices. Increased prices just mean renters who are paying at the top end of their budget need to realize that just like homeowners if you cant afford your desired area you cant live there.

Well it's a big problem if somebody without a car ends up moving from a city centre location to the outer subhurbs because they can't afford the rent anymore. The city centre is exactly where you want young singletons living, not housesharing and taking up a house that would otherwise house a family.

It's a bigger problem if a family with kids end up having to move schools because they've moved to a completely different area with the prospect of this happening every 12 months. It's nearly as big a problem if the parents then face a horrendous commute to get their kids to the original school because there's no places in the new school and they can't get them because "it's full already and sure they are only renting in the area anyway". I'm talking about parents trying to relocate kids from a school in Clondalkin to a school in Naas and being unsuccessful in that.

These things are happening at present and they are because of the severely restricted supply of rental properties.

Potatoeman

TheDoc wrote: »

Personally looking to move from apartment into house, still to rent, as we have a baby on the way.

Bit of a struggle alright to see some options, and some less then impressive properties going for outrageously high prices .

The Irish property market is always like this you will have lower standard property going for the same price as decent property because someone will pay it. Try and get the most for your money.

D3PO

Ray Palmer wrote: »

There seems to be plenty of threads with people saying their rent is going up and they can no longer afford to live in the same area. So that certainly is less supply in their eyes. Yes but their eyes don't make it a reality. Meanwhile the LL don't seem to be coming on saying they can't rent their property. The prices are going up due to lack of supply in the first place.

LLs weren't coming on saying they couldn't rent their property when the place was "awash" with over 9,000 rentals either. So its really is a moot point.

It sounds like you are substituting your version of reality with actual reality.
It is hard to find a place and rents are going up around the place. You know the normal signs of limited supply regardless of why or theories.

Being hard to find a place and rents going up don't mean there is a shortage. Less supply doesn't automatically make it a shortage.

gaius c

D3PO wrote: »

Being hard to find a place and rents going up don't mean there is a shortage. Less supply doesn't automatically make it a shortage.

Ireland was a net exporter of food during the Great Famine.
People still starved to death nonetheless.

Think you're being bull-headed on the technicality for the sake of it now.

D3PO

gaius c wrote: »

Well it's a big problem if somebody without a car ends up moving from a city centre location to the outer subhurbs because they can't afford the rent anymore. The city centre is exactly where you want young singletons living, not housesharing and taking up a house that would otherwise house a family.

It's a bigger problem if a family with kids end up having to move schools because they've moved to a completely different area with the prospect of this happening every 12 months. It's nearly as big a problem if the parents then face a horrendous commute to get their kids to the original school because there's no places in the new school and they can't get them because "it's full already and sure they are only renting in the area anyway". I'm talking about parents trying to relocate kids from a school in Clondalkin to a school in Naas and being unsuccessful in that.

These things are happening at present and they are because of the severely restricted supply of rental properties.

I don't disagree with any of this, that said its an unfortunate pitfall of renting. The prospect of something like this happening every 12 months isn't reality though (given RTA protections) and the fact is somebody given notice to move from a house in Clondalkin with a months notice could find somewhere else in the same area if they so wished to.

They may not have the garden they wanted, or be on the street they wanted, or like the décor in the house, or like the fact they have to pay more, but if they wanted to they could and saying that they couldn't because supply doesn't exist just is a really poor excuse.

syklops

D3PO wrote: »

Im well aware of the definition of the word shortage. Rentals in Dublin can be obtained so therefore it is not a shortage.

I have been looking for a place for 2 months now. Am I homeless? No, but I am commuting about 3 hours per day because of where I currently live. I am dying to move closer to work but I have not secured anywhere. All the ones I have called about have been taken, in some cases only hours after the ad has gone up. I went to see one place, 9 other people went to view it, again only hours after the ad went up and all wanted to take it. Unfortunately, I was not one of the lucky ones to be selected.

A shortage does not mean there is none. It means they are in short supply.

There are properties out there, such as this "lovely" little place in Ranelagh

The Spider

Social issue not a landlord issue, if there isn't accommodation available, it's up to the government to supply it not private landlords. People can always commute fr as was mentioned earlier if you're buying a house and can't get one in your desired area substitution occurs.

Granted the kids in school is a nightmare for anyone who has to move, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

D3PO

gaius c wrote: »

Ireland was a net exporter of food during the Great Famine.
People still starved to death nonetheless.

Think you're being bull-headed on the technicality for the sake of it now.

Im not at all, that's the thing. People these days are lazy and spoilt and because a new rental in the area they like isn't handed to them on a gold platter they believe that there must be a shortage complaining EA's wont return my emails/calls I cant get a viewing, rent is too high yada yada yada.

Nobody said renting should be easy. If somebody is properly motivated, takes a day off work sees the properties they would like to view , physically goes into the respective EA's managing the properties, is prepared to pay the asking rent then trust me they can find a place in the area they desire to rent in.

Just because you cant send an email have somebody chase you immediately and find palacial accomadation for a song doesn't mean theres a shortage.