Gun storage advice needed

Seamus the hunter

First off sorry this isn't really hunting but there was no real thread for this

But anyway im going to apply for a 4th gun and the super told me I needed the place alarmed but then I discovered it only had to be the room but I was wondering dose it have a monitored alarm as it would be another bill per year I was reading this it says nothing about a monitored alarm it is on pg 3 I apply to number 3 http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Firearms%20(Secure%20Accommodation)%20Regulations%202009.pdf/Files/Firearms%20(Secure%20Accommodation)%20Regulations%202009.pdf

thanks

Seamus

Witcher

Doesn't have to be alarmed at that level. The super can insist on a monitored alarm if he wishes though.

Seamus the hunter

U mean it dosent have to be a monitored alarm

Witcher

No it doesn't.

Seamus the hunter

Thanks i love you guys on this form ye always have a answer and a quick one at that thanks blay

Cass

Seamus the hunter wrote: »

U mean it dosent have to be a monitored alarm

No offence to Blay, as what he says is correct, but please do not take anyone's advice on what the Super wants. If s/he says to alarm the house, alarm the house. If s/he says only the room then do the room.

The security standards are MINIMUM standards. Meaning they are the basic required for that level off gun ownership. If the Super wants a moat, and sharks with lasers on their heads then that's what you must do. There is no appealing his decision but you can reason with him/her.

So if unsure as to what exactly the Super wants contact his/her office and find out for sure. Otherwise you can assume and alarm the room and hope it suffices.

Dian Cecht

You can appeal his decision in the District Court on required security if it exceeds the minimum standard and he/she would have to justify the requirement for extra security especially if your refused the firearm as it's been deemed your security is inadequate.

However, I reckon the Judge might take the Supers word over yours though in this instance as all the Super would have to do is claim that he/she has information that he/she cannot disclose to the public for his/her decision.

In other words, like so many others things what the Super says goes, whether they're right or wrong & common sense will/may not come into it :rolleyes:

Cass

I've never heard of a case being brought before the court to appeal a Super's demand for higher security (not that is probably hasn't happened). If someone were silly enough to do so then the Super will run out "public safety" and it's case closed. No judge, as you said, would dare go against a Super on this matter.

Very different situation to refusing a license. Also with the possible legal costs of such a case would it not be cheaper/easier and personally more re-assuring to just install the extra security?

sawdoubters

if he says jump
say how high


for your own safety, you should get a alarm system as you will probably in the house when they try and steal them

Dian Cecht

If the Super requires a level of security & you don't agree & submit the application. Chances are the application will be refused dues to inadequate security. If it is you can appeal, as it's a refusal. As I said it'd probably be a pointless exercise, but doesn't mean you can't do it, which you did say you couldn't in an earlier post.

Just because you & the Super think it's a good idea to install extra security doesn't mean everyone agrees with ye. Any 2 x guns & I reckon an alarm should be mandatory in the current climate.

Look at the hullaboo to get lads to install a cabinet/safe. NARGC even fought it in Court :eek: Sure if you've only a single shotgun you don't need a cabinet/safe according to the Garda Guidelines, which to me is wrong by the way.

Cass

Dian Cecht wrote: »

If the Super requires a level of security & you don't agree & submit the application. Chances are the application will be refused dues to inadequate security.

Usually it's a case of sending out the CPO first. Determining the level of security (as you need to declare this on your FCA1) and if insufficient demanding a higer level. If you refuse to increase your securrity then it will be refused. So it's not refused "point blank". You have already had an opportunity to resolve it.

If it is you can appeal, as it's a refusal. As I said it'd probably be a pointless exercise, but doesn't mean you can't do it, which you did say you couldn't in an earlier post.

I did not say you could not appeal his decision i said "There is no appealing this". IOW it's a futile exercise. Between what you would be trying to do, and the cost it's pointless.

I even said so in my second post.

Just because you & the Super think it's a good idea to install extra security doesn't mean everyone agrees with ye.

My opinion doesn't count for jack. It's the Super's that matters. So people can disagree with me, but they'll loose with the Super. S/He controls it, and dictate what will or will not happen.

Look at the hullaboo to get lads to install a cabinet/safe. NARGC even fought it in Court :eek: Sure if you've only a single shotgun you don't need a cabinet/safe according to the Garda Guidelines, which to me is wrong by the way.

Again they do not say you do not need a safe they sat the minimum is a trigger lock, and the gun broken up. MINIMUM standard. As above with me, your opinion on what the minimum should be doesn't count for spit. It's the Super's.


Lastly and to wrap my end up, if someone is not going to spend the money on an alarm for a room or house what are the chances they will pay the legal costs for a court case, and then face the possibility of paying for that security anyway when they loose.


As i said above if you are refused a gun license for no good reason it's a different ball of wax to being refused because you don't want to lock up your gun. On a public safety issue the judge will always air on the side of caution and go for the more secure option.

Dian Cecht

Cass,

I think we're on the same hymn sheet

Looks like I misinterpreted what you said about the initial refusal part

TriggerPL

Just to add the cost of adding a couple more censors to the whole job would be minimal , and it you home ur protecting .

Seamus the hunter

dose anyone know how much it would be to set up this whole alarm set-up plus costs per anum

Cass

At a guess -

• Full household alarm in the region of €600 -€1000 depending on features, company used, additions, etc.
• Basic room alarm in the region of under €150.
• Gun safe alarm from €30 upward.

GSM backup, monitoring, panic buttons, etc are all additional costs with monthly fees. The average seems to be around €25 per month.

However it's been a very long time since i was around or involved with alarms/installations so best to ring around. This is also why it's important to find out which one will suffice. Saves you a few quid but keeps you safe/covered.

Dian Cecht

I recommend asking what will be acceptable to your Super BEFORE you install anything.

Cass

Dian Cecht wrote: »

I recommend asking what will be acceptable to your Super BEFORE you install anything.

That's what i've being saying since the start:

Cass wrote: »

.......... but please do not take anyone's advice on what the Super wants. If s/he says to alarm the house, alarm the house. If s/he says only the room then do the room.

Cass wrote:

So if unsure as to what exactly the Super wants contact his/her office and find out for sure..

Cass wrote: »

My opinion doesn't count for jack. It's the Super's that matters.

Cass wrote:

........... opinion on what the minimum should be doesn't count for spit. It's the Super's.

Cass wrote: »

This is also why it's important to find out which one will suffice.

Seamus the hunter

lol ok i see ur point but what the super says and what i want to hear are sadly different but i will try compromise but i don't get why i should alarm the house instead of just the room it dosent matter to super if they rob my tv only if they break into that room and steal my guns (or try) my point is why protect the house if all that matters to him is the guns

TriggerPL

Seamus the hunter wrote: »

lol ok i see ur point but what the super says and what i want to hear are sadly different but i will try compromise but i don't get why i should alarm the house instead of just the room it dosent matter to super if they rob my tv only if they break into that room and steal my guns (or try) my point is why protect the house if all that matters to him is the guns

Seriously !! What is the point of going to the expense of getting an alarm if you don't do the whole house , that's just outright stupid .

Nightguard in Galway will do ur house for around 800 and the first 6 months the monitoring is free ,

I think it's 200 a year after .

U will def need a gsm unit to contact u or who ever , there no point having an alarm if it don't contact someone .

Neighbours these days just think , that feckers alarm is going off again , when really ur guns are on the way out the door

TriggerPL

And an alarm will save you money on house insurance .

Seamus the hunter

yes but house insurance is only 200 a year plus we have 23 windows 2 doors and the one where the gun that would be costly but setting up a alarm for 1 door and a skylight is not going to cost me 800 to set up and it wont cost 200 a year and as for saving on house insurance i dont think it would save alot

TriggerPL

Seamus the hunter wrote: »

yes but house insurance is only 200 a year plus we have 23 windows 2 doors and the one where the gun that would be costly but setting up a alarm for 1 door and a skylight is not going to cost me 800 to set up and it wont cost 200 a year and as for saving on house insurance i dont think it would save alot

U don't need a sensor in every window , cover the hall the gun room front door back door and patio door , that's 5 sensors , it's rare that someone breaks in through a window and even at that they have to use ur hall to get round the house !

And ur forgetting bell box , alarm panel , 2 key pads 5 sensors , all adds up

Seamus the hunter

yea but you don't need two key panels if you are only only alarming one room and two sensors one for the door and one for the skylight

TriggerPL

Seamus the hunter wrote: »

yea but you don't need two key panels if you are only only alarming one room and two sensors one for the door and one for the skylight

I don't think ur really getting what I'm saying , the expensive part of an alarm is the panel and bel box ,

An extra key pad and 2 or 3 censors will be about 80 to 100 euro .

And ur whole house is protected ,

When ***** break in to ur house it's not what they take that's is the expensive part , it's the damage they do in the process ,

Smashing the place apart looking for hidden valuables .

Not to mention that ur alarm will be going off long befor they get to ur gun room , giving them less time to break the cabinet off the wall . Or steal ur guns , that extra five mins might just give you or the cops the chance to get back to ur house .