Should John Lydon (Johnny Rotten) be recognised by the Irish People/Government

Sikpupi

Have always had a respect for John Lydon / Johnny Rotten and wonder should he recognised as in an 'Irish' context and given an acknowledgement that he has promoted the Irish world-wide.

We as a country are trying to hitch our star to Tom Cruise & Obama.... but John is 2nd generation Irish that has done well and in effect has changed the world! He has never denied his roots.

Shane McGowan is another that would fall into same category.

But to see Jeremy Irons being made an honorary Corkman - surely would mean that John should be welcomed into the fold of 'famous Irishmen' who have contributed to promoting the Irish worldwide.

.... discuss!!

Gmol

No because he's a twat

Sir Arthur Daley

I knew a father clint power once?

wazky

I hate this crap, latching onto anyone and everyone with the even remotest connection to Ireland.

Plenty of actual Irish people who deserve recognition not just ones who tell us they like having the 'crack and begoragh' to win over a few thickos and sell the odd book.

Sikpupi

No because he's a twat

Well that doesn't disqualify him. We have plenty of full-blooded Twats in the country...

Sikpupi

I hate this crap, latching onto anyone and everyone with the even remotest
connection to Ireland.

Agree.... but its happening anyway and you and I won' t change that

Frankie Lee

http://thequietus.com/articles/05099-pil-public-image-limited-electric-picnic-john-lydon-irish

A good read.

To the son of Irish immigrants, the incident felt like rejection by his homeland. He recounted the events again bitterly in an Irish Times interview earlier this year: “I went to a pub and the barman wouldn’t serve me. Words were exchanged and the police were called. I was arrested for attacking a policeman’s fist with my face and thrown in Mountjoy for the night. Some homecoming. The police and the screws made a big deal out of me, they tried to shatter my morale – well, good luck on that one.”

JohnFalstaff

There was a great documentary about Lydon on TG4 recently. It was part of a series about second generation Irish musicians that grew up in England - Oasis, Morrissey/Marr also featured.

Lydon was interviewed and spoke about his sense of identity as being both Irish and English.

We have an odd relationship with the second and third generation Irish in Britain and I'd agree with the OP that we haven't embraced their achievements to the same extent as their American counterparts.

The TG4 show was called Guth and is worth tracking down.

Mint Aero

Never heard of him, who's he?

humberklog

Sikpupi wrote: »

Agree.... but its happening anyway and you and I won' t change that

You agree you hate the crap of trying to latch the Irish badge onto famous people?

But you started this thread, how on earth...good grief.

Discuss that yourself.

marozz

I agree, but I cant visualise John Lydon standing there, shaking hands with some minister presenting him with an honorary Irish citizen certificate. I don't think he could be arsed, though it would be nice to see.

kumate_champ07

thats the guy from the butter ad?

Ruu

Too fond of the Union Jack trousers.

Sikpupi

But you started this thread, how on earth...good grief.

Discuss that yourself.

........calm the passion!!! throwing it open to the audience..as I said !!

No obligation to participate....

JohnFalstaff

wazky wrote: »

I hate this crap, latching onto anyone and everyone with the even remotest connection to Ireland.

In Lydon's case he sees himself as partly Irish. Instead of latching onto him, he feels rejected by this country.

ArrahShure

wazky

JohnFalstaff wrote: »

In Lydon's case he sees himself as partly Irish. Instead of latching onto him, he feels rejected by this country.

Rejected? What utter bollocks, he is English by birth and if he wants to play the Irish card when it suits him then fire away but pulling a prodigal son routine isn't endearing at all.

I would call myself a Pistols/Lydon/PiL fan by the way.

anncoates

I admire him and loved PIL. I wouldn't say he's actually unlinked to Ireland. He's first generation Irish and has always been very cognizant of his heritage. Think he might have even had an Irish passport. before.

That said, I'd like to assume he'd probably hate the diffusion of his Anglo-Irish heritage being turned into some corny national claim for nationalist purposes.

JohnFalstaff

wazky wrote: »

Rejected? What utter bollocks, he is English by birth and if he wants to play the Irish card when it suits him then fire away but pulling a prodigal son routine isn't endearing at all.

I would call myself a Pistols/Lydon/PiL fan by the way.

As a fan you'd know his autobiography: 'No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish'. Lots in there about his relationship with this country.

The Diabolical Monocle

an I waannna beeee

A paaaady

KungPao

ArrahShure wrote: »

Used to love that song as an early adolescent, then later, when I discovered Punk and the Pistols, realised who the singer was.

Such a unique voice. Love it.

thebaz

well hopefully we treat him a little better than the first time he came over after the Sex Pistols - he was thrown into Mountjoy , for some petty misdeameanor - by our so-called moralistic society back them - 1981 , i think - thankfully , we have, slowly, progressed since then.

DEFTLEFTHAND

His autobiography is called 'No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs.' In reference to the boarding house signs in 50s/60s London where he grew up. He says in the book that he did get hassle for being 2nd generation Irish.

Sikpupi

You have to hand it to him - he was instrumental in changing the music industry as we know it and in liberating the youth of today.

The media go on about Bono and what a great musician he is... but he hasn't has the same impact on music as John Lydon has. But Bono will be given the Keys of the City!

DEFTLEFTHAND

I always felt sorry for the way he got screwed by Malcolm McClaren when it came to the Sex Pistols. He made next to no money out of it at the time, the whole thing cumulated in him being left stranded without a bob in LA in 1978 after the SP US tour imploded after a week and the band broke up.

There was talent there apart from Sid Vicious obviously who never even learnt how to play the bass guitar, a roadie would play behind the curtain at live gigs. Glen Matlock the original bassist was very badly treated. They were all young foolish pups and they got taken for a ride.

anncoates

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

His autobiography is called 'No Irish, No Blacks, No Dogs.' In reference to the boarding house signs in 50s/60s London where he grew up. He says in the book that he did get hassle for being 2nd generation Irish.

He's 1st generation. Both his parents are Irish.

WilyCoyote

A few years back the good burghers of Tipp rejected a plaque to Boy George due to his sexual orientation so I hope Lyden passes the rigorous test

anncoates

WilyCoyote wrote: »

A few years back the good burghers of Tipp rejected a plaque to Boy George due to his sexual orientation so I hope Lyden passes the rigorous test

Yet they love Lowry.

The mind boggles.

Femme_Fatale

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIAZ8unRm2c

"Two sides to evaree storee!" Too right!

WilyCoyote

anncoates wrote: »

Yet they love Lowry.

The mind boggles.

Eventhough he's bent :eek::D

dodderangler

Sikpupi wrote: »

Well that doesn't disqualify him. We have plenty of full-blooded Twats in the country...

thebaz

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

There was talent there apart from Sid Vicious obviously who never even learnt how to play the bass guitar,

Never mind the bollocks , was a masterpiece - its sound defined a generation , its graphics have never been bettered - so much amazing creativity was going on in West and North London around '76 / '77

I've read also , that Sid could play , not to the standard of Glen Matlock

anncoates

thebaz wrote: »

I've read also , that Sid could play , not to the standard of Glen Matlock

Not really.

DEFTLEFTHAND

thebaz wrote: »

Never mind the bollocks , was a masterpiece - its sound defined a generation , its graphics have never been bettered - so much amazing creativity was going on in West and North London around '76 / '77

I've read also , that Sid could play , not to the standard of Glen Matlock

He was a local thug and friend of Lydon who used to attend their clubs gigs when they started out in 75. McClaren noticed him and liked his image so he decided he wanted him in the band. Matlock a decent bassist was more reserved in personality and didn't fit the punk image in McClarens eye.

So he ousted him and put this clown in instead, He tried to learn but he never reached the standard for live performance. They used to lock in a room and demand that he practice. It was simple enough bass chords but he wasn't musical in any shape or form. When they recorded Nevermind The Bollocks Sid was in hospital recovering from a heroin overdose. Steve Jones plays both bass and lead on all tracks apart from Anarchy in the UK which Matlock was temporarily brought back for. They mixed in a pathetic attempt Sid made on 'Bodies' to the finished version on the album to give him a performance credit.

anncoates

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z2M_hpoPwk

mikom

Irish man, I'd say, but......I could be wrong......... I could be right.........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjy8oLVOvi4

Daqster

McLaren just stole everything he could from the New York Dolls, The Stooges the Ramones. I like the Pistols and all and they without question made an massive impact on the UK punk scene, but Punk was well on it's way and would have happened with or without them. There must be a ton of interviews out there of Lydon saying that nobody dared challenge the establishment before them, but that's all bollox. I mean, if the Mods and Skinheads weren't challenging the establishment in the 60s, who the fcuk was.

Lydon to me is just an attention seeker with a lot of charisma He got very lucky and was really just in the right place at the right time. He was no different than many around at that time. McLaren is the real genius (and Westwood to a great degree also) of the pistols success. He was the Simon Cowell of the punk world and the New York Dolls, The Stooges the Ramones were the blueprint for what he wanted. They all got shafted financially by McClaren but that's what happens to manufactured boybands.

The original punks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdyEEk5WrrI

DEFTLEFTHAND

That's the promo video for the single, not the recording session. Nobody lays down tracks playing as a unit.

joseph brand

Mint Aero wrote: »

Never heard of him, who's he?

Is this how posters increment their post count?

sawdoubters

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lydon

MonaPizza

Sikpupi wrote: »

Have always had a respect for John Lydon / Johnny Rotten and wonder should he recognised as in an 'Irish' context and given an acknowledgement that he has promoted the Irish world-wide.

We as a country are trying to hitch our star to Tom Cruise & Obama.... but John is 2nd generation Irish that has done well and in effect has changed the world! He has never denied his roots.

Shane McGowan is another that would fall into same category.

But to see Jeremy Irons being made an honorary Corkman - surely would mean that John should be welcomed into the fold of 'famous Irishmen' who have contributed to promoting the Irish worldwide.

.... discuss!!

Like somehow people are so humbled and honoured to be allowed by us to "be" Irish. Yeah it's nice to be Irish if you are(and I am) but I'm not going to tell some Japanese physicist or some Austrian cellist or some Persian architect or some Russian ballerina that they are nothing coz they ain't paddies.

BillyMitchel

But but but but..... Did he not want to save the queen?!

Comes across as an asshole anytime I've seen interviews or the like. Nationality is irrelevant.

Gyalist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ2Xb4wgCL0

This always make me laugh - wish I could find the whole episode, it was hilarious.

John Lydon was the narrator on what is probably the best skateboard video ever made - the classic Sorry from Flip Skateboards.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hBAbUb-LEY

MonstaMash

Got thrown into the back of a Black Maria with Mr.Lydon in October 1980 at the grand old age of 16, accused of being involved in an alleged fracas after the Bollock Brothers gig in the Edmund Burke hall in Trinity college :cool:

A very nice chap, spoke up for me with the Garda, told them I had nothing to do with it & I was completely innocent of all accusations.

Had to wait in a holding cell until the Garda called my da to collect me, because I was a minor...morto

Foxhound38

Sikpupi wrote: »

Well that doesn't disqualify him. We have plenty of full-blooded Twats in the country...

Yeah, but we're stuck with them - no sense adding to it...

dd972

wazky wrote: »

Rejected? What utter bollocks, he is English by birth .

Was J.G Ballard Chinese?
Was James Connolly Scottish?

Does your birthplace ( which is arbitrary and dependent on your parent's location ) have to be some all consuming determinant of one's personality and identity? I've always found the disdain for people born 'over the stream' to Irish parents laughable, I wouldn't think the Dutch would turn their noses up at a Dutch citizen born to Dutch parents in Antwerp.

Another manifestation of the village idiot mentality of Ireland, 'we're so unique', 'we're so witty and whimsical', 'listen to my accent and swoon', ' you weren't born here so your're not in the club'.

Femme_Fatale

Haven't encountered disdain towards people of Irish parentage born in the UK, but that's only my experience.

Lydon was treated with hostility that time in Dublin because he was either acting or deemed to be acting the bollocks. It was hardly a "turning away of the returned prodigal son". Drama queen central.

I've mixed views on him - he can be an awful dick, but I'd say some of that is hammed up. In private I'd say he's all right. And he's clever and articulate and single-minded... apart from the butter ad.

I absolutely LOVE PIL. The Sex Pistols I'd take or leave.

tipptom

anncoates wrote: »

Yet they love Lowry.

The mind boggles.

Ah,cmon now,Micheal learned the bass overnight and we are going to shunt him in to a band with Jackie Healy Rae and Beverly Cooper Flynn,talks are ongoing with Bill Grundy,its going to be mega.

marozz

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Haven't encountered disdain towards people of Irish parentage born in the UK, but that's only my experience.

Lydon was treated with hostility that time in Dublin because he was either acting or deemed to be acting the bollocks. It was hardly a "turning away of the returned prodigal son". Drama queen central.

I've mixed views on him - he can be an awful dick, but I'd say some of that is hammed up. In private I'd say he's all right. And he's clever and articulate and single-minded... apart from the butter ad.

I absolutely LOVE PIL. The Sex Pistols I'd take or leave.

He just went into the wrong pub. I went into the Horse and Tram once in 80's and they refused to serve me because of the way I was dressed. I gave the barman a bit of verbal abuse and left before it got out of hand.

FTA69

A lot of my friends over here are second-generation Irish and they've pretty much all had hassle back in Ireland over their English accent. I saw a full-on brawl erupt once in a pub I was working with in Oakwood after some twat from Galway kept referring to a group of other lads as "Plastic Paddies".

Personally I think there's traditionally been a sense where emigrants who went to England were looked down upon a bit while the ones who went to the USA were lauded. It grates with a few second-generation Irish in England that they spent every Summer at home, were raised in an Irish cultural context and still get called "English bastards" while people fawn over Yanks with a great, great whatever who came from Mayo in the 1840s.

dd972

FTA69 wrote: »

A lot of my friends over here are second-generation Irish and they've pretty much all had hassle back in Ireland over their English accent. I saw a full-on brawl erupt once in a pub I was working with in Oakwood after some twat from Galway kept referring to a group of other lads as "Plastic Paddies". /QUOTE]

That Galway bloke you mentioned probably gives out about UKIP and BNP types yet he's a Hiberno mirror image of them.