Bus Éireann Stop Question

CasualLiKE

Do bus eireann buses stop if someone waves them down not at an intermediate bus stop? The walk to the nearest bus stop is too far but I can walk to the side of the main road which is a good walk from where I live but it's on the same main road the bus follows on its journey.

horseburger

I think they will stop in rural routes, if someone waves them down, where there is no actual bus stop points along the route.

But in towns where there would be a number of different bus stop points, I think passengers would be expected to assemble at the bus stops.

Here is the page on Bus Éireann's site which includes the phone numbers for the various Bus Stations throughout the country, so perhaps to confirm, you could ring the relevant station to your area.

http://www.buseireann.ie/inner.php?id=294

AlekSmart

CasualLiKE wrote: »

Do bus eireann buses stop if someone waves them down not at an intermediate bus stop? The walk to the nearest bus stop is too far but I can walk to the side of the main road which is a good walk from where I live but it's on the same main road the bus follows on its journey.

Up until quite recently I would have suggested that you'd be grand...however,with the ever increasing influence of CPC and assorted other "Professional" qualifications,the requirement to understand and abide by Safety Related issues,such as only stopping at "approved" locations I would now think you have a 50/50 chance at best.

When you factor in the numbers of Busdrivers unwilling to risk a black-mark for stopping at an unapproved location vs those who blind-eye it (Great Lads altogether ?) I would not be too confident of hitting the spot every time

gbob

CasualLiKE wrote: »

Do bus eireann buses stop if someone waves them down not at an intermediate bus stop? The walk to the nearest bus stop is too far but I can walk to the side of the main road which is a good walk from where I live but it's on the same main road the bus follows on its journey.

Unless it is a stage carriage service you pretty much have no chance, very very few would risk it these days. Licence and livelyhood at risk if an accident happens when they are illegally stopped.

GTE

From what I have noticed local to me, you wont get an intercity coach stopping for you but the commuter ones will.

Though realistically, I understand that there will be silly pressure to stop this from happening at all due to health and safety but I guess you just have to make sure you are not taking the piss in the place you are flagging them down at.

gbob

bbk wrote: »

.. but I guess you just have to make sure you are not taking the piss in the place you are flagging them down at.

Anywhere that isn't an authorised stopping place is taking the piss, BE used to turn a blind eye to drivers stopping where they weren't supposed to and they used to say it was at the drivers discretion. Now they will face disciplinary action if a complaint comes in about stopping where they shouldn't. Who here would risk prosecution or dismissal to do someone a favour.

And the fact the driver may be considered not a "sound lad" if he chose to put the law and his contract of employment first says a lot about this "sure it'll be grand" culture.

corktina

Don't be daft....locally there is 7 miles between stops, they only have them in the towns, so what do you suggest , ? walking 3 or 4 miles then catching the bus?

GTE

gbob wrote: »

Anywhere that isn't an authorised stopping place is taking the piss.

Care to give a reason for that? The post didn't do a very good job at explaining itself, the rest of the post was just commenting on driver mindset and managements reaction to the issue. Then this sound lad stuff.

gbob

corktina wrote: »

Don't be daft....locally there is 7 miles between stops, they only have them in the towns, so what do you suggest , ? walking 3 or 4 miles then catching the bus?

As I said if it's a stage carriage service then there's no issue, but if it's an express then it's contrary to the RTA for it to stop, and if that means walking to the nearest authorised stopping point then that's what has to be done. Expecting the driver to break the law and therefore his contract so as not to cause inconvenience to anyone not living near a bus stop is beyond daft.

gbob

bbk wrote: »

Care to give a reason for that? The post didn't do a very good job at explaining itself, the rest of the post was just commenting on driver mindset and managements reaction to the issue. Then this sound lad stuff.

Apologies if I wasn't clear, the point I'm making is that whilst it may have been acceptable to ignore the Road Traffic Act and the ROTR previously, it is no longer the case and for anybody to assume that a driver will break the rules for their convenience is no longer acceptable.

GTE

gbob wrote: »

Apologies if I wasn't clear, the point I'm making is that whilst it may have been acceptable to ignore the Road Traffic Act and the ROTR previously, it is no longer the case and for anybody to assume that a driver will break the rules for their convenience is no longer acceptable.

That point still doesn't address why you think stopping at any point between signed stops is always taking the piss.

If you are aligning yourself with what your post says, then fine you do not want any bus doing this but it does not equal anyone doing it being unreasonable.

gbob

bbk wrote: »

That point still doesn't address why you think stopping at any point between signed stops is always taking the piss.

If you are aligning yourself with what your post says, then fine you do not want any bus doing this but it does not equal anyone doing it being unreasonable.

The driver being expected to do it is what is unreasonable..

corktina

gbob wrote: »

As I said if it's a stage carriage service then there's no issue, but if it's an express then it's contrary to the RTA for it to stop, and if that means walking to the nearest authorised stopping point then that's what has to be done. Expecting the driver to break the law and therefore his contract so as not to cause inconvenience to anyone not living near a bus stop is beyond daft.

how do you define the difference?

gbob

corktina wrote: »

how do you define the difference?

The difference is defined by the applicable licence, currently its the NTA's responsibility to issue licences and other bodies prior to them. The licence denotes whether the specific service is authorized as an express service or stage carriage. From a public timetable perspective, generally speaking the two digit routes are express and three digit routes are stage carriage (except 20x 51x etc are still two digit routes). There may be exceptions to that but none I can think of.

AlekSmart

CasualLiKE wrote: »

Do bus eireann buses stop if someone waves them down not at an intermediate bus stop? The walk to the nearest bus stop is too far but I can walk to the side of the main road which is a good walk from where I live but it's on the same main road the bus follows on its journey.

Bus Stops are usually erected for quite valid reasons,one being the regulation of boarding and alighting.

One valid question might be how many other CasualLiKE's are there along this stretch of main road,who,as soon as they notice their local friendly Busdriver performing this act-of-kindness for their neighbour,will confidently expect the exact same,200 Metres further along the same road...The question being...where is the line to be drawn ?

IF the OP feels their location merits a Bus-Stop,they should ideally contact BE initially and cc it to the NTA....if there's a chance of some business BE will generally be amenable to applying for a permitted Stop,however it will be the Local Garda Traffic Corp Officer who will finally adjudicate on the issue.

The OP's desire is for a Hail,n Ride type service,which in fact CAN be specifically provided for under the NTA's licencing system.

However past,bitter,experience with operating such services in West Dublin,really did open my eyes to the incredible expectations of a great many people...along with their equally incredible capacity for laziness !

gbob

AlekSmart wrote: »

IF the OP feels their location merits a Bus-Stop,they should ideally contact BE initially and cc it to the NTA....if there's a chance of some business BE will generally be amenable to applying for a permitted Stop,however it will be the Local Garda Traffic Corp Officer who will finally adjudicate on the issue.

Unfortunately the the approval or otherwise of stop locations has been taken out of the hands of Gardi since feb 2013 and is now subject to local authority approval.

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/taxi-and-bus-licensing/bus/latest-news-for-bus-operators/

corktina

gbob wrote: »

The difference is defined by the applicable licence, currently its the NTA's responsibility to issue licences and other bodies prior to them. The licence denotes whether the specific service is authorized as an express service or stage carriage. From a public timetable perspective, generally speaking the two digit routes are express and three digit routes are stage carriage (except 20x 51x etc are still two digit routes). There may be exceptions to that but none I can think of.

How then would you define the timetabled Kanturk to Cork City route which has , I believe three services... one is direct and the other two change into the Limerick to Cork express route (51?) . The route no is 243

gbob

corktina wrote: »

How then would you define the timetabled Kanturk to Cork City route which has , I believe three services... one is direct and the other two change into the Limerick to Cork express route (51?) . The route no is 243

Going by BE's printed timetables they are separate routes that seem to operate partially on the same road, one would appear to be a stage carriage and the other an express. And from what i can see the 51 doesn't stop at Kanturk. BE's journey planner shows a change of route at Mallow for all but one service, may not necessarily be a change of vehicle but is a different route no.

NTA's most recent list of all licenced services;
http://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/database-of-holders-of-licences-for-public-bus-passenger-services-011113.pdf

BE route 243;
http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1347462810-243.pdf

BE route 51;
http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1360753025-051.pdf

As i said earlier the route numbers are generalizations, but here's an anomaly that may or may not be unique.
The 10.30 ex Galway on route 52 is an express which operates as a stage carriage for part of the service;
http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1360753063-052.pdf

LXFlyer

Expressway routes are listed here:
http://www.buseireann.ie/inner.php?id=246

Stage Carriage services are listed here:
http://www.buseireann.ie/inner.php?id=247

There are a limited number of exceptions as per that service on route 52 above.

Vic_08

corktina wrote: »

How then would you define the timetabled Kanturk to Cork City route which has , I believe three services... one is direct and the other two change into the Limerick to Cork express route (51?) . The route no is 243

The 51 is an Express and only stops at the places listed in the timetable. The 243 is stage carriage and will pick up/drop off en route anywhere that is safe.

On stage carriage routes in towns or locations with set bus stops these should be used.

Mrs OBumble

corktina wrote: »

Don't be daft....locally there is 7 miles between stops, they only have them in the towns, so what do you suggest , ? walking 3 or 4 miles then catching the bus?

Assuming that private transport is not an option for you, the answers are basically to buy a bicycle, or move to somewhere that is better served.

You could also try contacting your local Rural Transport provider, to see what services they provide in the area.

Or - as per the link provided above - contact your local authority and lobby to have a stop placed locally for your use. (note: there are no guarantees that any bus-operator will use such a stop if it is placed, but that appears to be the first step).

While it may be ok as a once-off, I wouldn't advise asking bus-drivers (or anyone else) to break the law on a regular basis for me.

corktina

Vic_08 wrote: »

The 51 is an Express and only stops at the places listed in the timetable. The 243 is stage carriage and will pick up/drop off en route anywhere that is safe.

On stage carriage routes in towns or locations with set bus stops these should be used.

well the thing is, the three journeys are listed online in the 243 table. In one instance the 243 runs through to Cork. Presumably you are saying that you can flag down the 243 between Mallow and Cork but not the 51 on the other two journeys?( the 51 doesn't stop in Kanturk because it doesn't come within 15 miles of it...)
(It does involve a change of vehicle btw...the 51 runs from Limerick to Cork)

I'm just interested in how these things work

LXFlyer

corktina wrote: »

well the thing is, the three journeys are listed online in the 243 table. In one instance the 243 runs through to Cork. Presumably you are saying that you can flag down the 243 between Mallow and Cork but not the 51 on the other two journeys?( the 51 doesn't stop in Kanturk because it doesn't come within 15 miles of it...)
(It does involve a change of vehicle btw...the 51 runs from Limerick to Cork)

I'm just interested in how these things work

The Expressway services listed in the link I provided above stop only at the places listed in the timetable.

Stage carriage services will stop at bus stops along the route, and where there are no stops provided in the areas concerned, where it is safe to do so.

So, in your example, route 51 runs non-stop Mallow-Cork, while the 243 will stop at bus stops and other locations where it is safe to do so (if no stops are provided).

There are no route 51 services shown in the 243 timetable - only the 243 itself.

gbob

corktina wrote: »

. Presumably you are saying that you can flag down the 243 between Mallow and Cork but not the 51 on the other two journeys?( the 51 doesn't stop in Kanturk because it doesn't come within 15 miles of it...)
(It does involve a change of vehicle btw...the 51 runs from Limerick to Cork)

I'm just interested in how these things work

Yep that's it, you can flag down the 243 where it's safe to stop but not the 51, despite it being the same road. And apologies as I'm not familiar the local geography.

GTE

corktina wrote: »

I'm just interested in how these things work

Yup, more or less that local to me (19,20,21,22,23 over the past 10 years and 115). Expressway = no intermediate stop, commuter = flag downable.

corktina

gbob wrote: »

Yep that's it, you can flag down the 243 where it's safe to stop but not the 51, despite it being the same road. And apologies as I'm not familiar the local geography.

How does Public know that given the vehicles are pretty much identical.?

corktina

lxflyer wrote: »

There are no route 51 services shown in the 243 timetable - only the 243 itself.

I beg to differ/
The connections from Mallow to Cork are shown, the table is headed 243 in big letters, the journeys are not marked as route 51 but they ARE route 51, they are not route 243 which only goes to Cork once a day, the other two journeys are connections onto the 243



In fact the second bus of the day doesn't connect at all,(there are now 4 services I see)the first departure and the 10.20 from Kanturk connect into the 51 and the 13.40 is a direct service.. The connections are clearly shown aas route 243 when they are in fact the 51

LXFlyer

The 0715 from Charleville (0745 ex-Mallow) is a route 243 stage carriage service, and is shown as such in both the 243 and 51 timetables. Whether it displays that or not I don't know, but that's what it is.

As I read it, the 1045 ex-Mallow is a 243 stage carriage service also that starts in Mallow (it has one routing on Friday and another every other weekday) - the 51 from Galway departs five minutes earlier at 1040. It may be that you have just managed to catch the 51 rather than the 243 from Mallow if the former is running late.

corktina

It not a 243 connection, it's a connection into the 51...I keep telling you that

LXFlyer

Which bus?

Will you please use specific times.

corktina

the 1045 Mallow to Cork. I suspect that maybe a 243 journey does run on Fridays, but doesn't seem to the rest of the week, unless maybe the 51 is full perhaps. Just from observation, I have a bit of interest in buses and if I see one I tend to watch it (sad) and especially if it's a 243. I don't tend to see the others....the ex-Charleville service could well operate as a 243, although I have not seen this. I think I have seen short workings with 51 up though.

I can't claim any of this as facts though.

LXFlyer

corktina wrote: »

the 1045 Mallow to Cork. I suspect that maybe a 243 journey does run on Fridays, but doesn't seem to the rest of the week, unless maybe the 51 is full perhaps. Just from observation, I have a bit of interest in buses and if I see one I tend to watch it (sad) and especially if it's a 243. I don't tend to see the others....the ex-Charleville service could well operate as a 243, although I have not seen this. I think I have seen short workings with 51 up though.

I can't claim any of this as facts though.

Well then the only issue is that they're showing the wrong bus in the 243 timetable Mon-Thu and Saturday at 10:45 - it should be shown as the 51 (which per the 51 timetable is supposed to leave at 1040!).

The 0715 from Charleville works out from Cork at 0610.

Mrs OBumble

corktina wrote: »

How does Public know that given the vehicles are pretty much identical.?

Well when the 51 gets into Galway, it usually has a big orange "51" on the front.

I'm kinda guessing the 234 (or whatever it is) has something else

corktina

no need to be sarky,

to Joe Public a bus is a bus...and to me too. The buses used in this instance are pretty much identical. So you can stick your hand up to a bus on the N20 and if it's a 234 it may stop and if it's a 51 it will not. How does someone who knows nothing about buses know that?

corktina

lxflyer wrote: »

Well then the only issue is that they're showing the wrong bus in the 243 timetable Mon-Thu and Saturday at 10:45 - it should be shown as the 51 (which per the 51 timetable is supposed to leave at 1040!).

The 0715 from Charleville works out from Cork at 0610.

it's not an issue at all. I'm just curious how they work out the licenses.

LXFlyer

corktina wrote: »

it's not an issue at all. I'm just curious how they work out the licenses.

Well it is actually - as if what you are saying about the 1045 departure is true (and I don't doubt you) then the timetable is giving wrong information. It should make clear that passengers are conveyed to Cork by route 51.

As for the licences - the different routes are separated (with only a few exceptions) as I outlined in post 19 of this thread between stage carriage and commercial expressway.

LXFlyer

corktina wrote: »

no need to be sarky,

to Joe Public a bus is a bus...and to me too. The buses used in this instance are pretty much identical. So you can stick your hand up to a bus on the N20 and if it's a 234 it may stop and if it's a 51 it will not. How does someone who knows nothing about buses know that?

They probably could make the difference a bit clearer on the timetable pdfs - the old timetable books clearly stated that Expressway services stopped only at the points listed.

corktina

A passenger getting off a 243 in Mallow might expect a 243 for Cork to pick him up at 1045 whereas it looks like the 51 goes at 1040, so I'm a bit confused. No doubt the driver will tell people connecting what to do

Anyway,the service is much imporved from the one bus-a-day-stops- all -the -way-to-Cork that used to be the case up to a few years back. I notice a lot more passengers waiting for it in Kanturk nowadays too

also another point. What of a passenger who gets picked up half way from Newmarket to Kanturk and wants to go to, lets say Waterloo.... He has boarded a stage service but will want to alight from an express service if he is on the 51

LXFlyer

For the record, I'm assuming that you're saying that the connecting bus from Mallow off the 1020 from Kanturk is a 51 as you have taken the service or been in Mallow when it arrived, and that you've never seen a second bus leaving Mallow (except on Friday)?

Re your confusion - you are finally seeing why I said what I did about the timetable!!

As for your punter from halfway between Newmarket and Kanturk, well he can't go to Waterloo directly - he will either have to walk from the N20, or get a taxi from Mallow. He won't be getting a 51 either way, as there are only two departures from Newmarket (0710 which connects into the 0715 243 from Charleville) and the 1340 service which continues through to Cork.

The 10:45 243 from Mallow on Fridays is the only bus to serve Waterloo inbound, and that bus is most definitely a stage carriage service. All the other services do not serve Waterloo (signified by the solid vertical line in the 243 timetable).

corktina

the point is though he got on a Stage Service...Waterloo is on the N20 with a short walk down the hill, and he presumably he would be able to get off the direct 243 service at that cross, but not the other two services which become a 51 half way there.... forget Waterloo if it makes it clearer, substitute any intermediate point. I have indeed witnessed a 243 to 51 connection more than once.

LXFlyer

corktina wrote: »

the point is though he got on a Stage Service...Waterloo is on the N20 with a short walk down the hill, and he presumably he would be able to get off the direct 243 service at that cross, but not the other two services which become a 51 half way there.... forget Waterloo if it makes it clearer, substitute any intermediate point. I have indeed witnessed a 243 to 51 connection more than once.

Correct - he would be able to get off a 243 at any safe point, but not a 51.

corktina

lxflyer wrote: »

Correct - he would be able to get off a 243 at any safe point, but not a 51.

but then how does the poor driver explain that to a passenger who makes that journey usually in the afternoon but decides to go in the morning instead? It's advertised as 243 all the way.....

LXFlyer

It would appear to be an error in the printed timetable.

Why don't you contact BE in Cork directly yourself to get it clarified and maybe the timetable can be fixed if necessary.

corktina

meh... :-)