Furnished vs Unfurnished Rental Properties

The Gride

murphaph wrote: »

Like underwear, which is why tenants should buy their own.

But the culture in this country is to rent furnished houses so unless that changes its a very sticky one.

Mrs OBumble

The Gride wrote: »

But the culture in this country is to rent furnished houses so unless that changes its a very sticky one.

The sooner we change it, the better.

djimi

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The sooner we change it, the better.

The better for who? I would imagine our rental market has an awful lot of young first time renters who are more than happy to rent furnished properties. Renting unfurnished would not suit a lot of people; it doesnt really fit with the rental culture or demographic that Ireland has typically had.

McDook

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The sooner we change it, the better.

Landlords would love that, but they can rent unfurnished easily. The vast majority of people will not buy their own stuff so wont even look at unfurnished.
Cuts the LLs market down substantially.

Blizzard

As with many others here, I would definitely advise the op/landlord to advise tenants that if they're not happy with the mattress that they can replace themselves (sort the storage details between yourselves) and hopefully that will solve the problem. They may be chancing their arm to see what you will do but at the end of the day you've supplied the basics which they accepted upon signing their lease.

I would, however, love to know what imbecile came up with the idea of furnished houses/flats in this country. It's a nightmare. It would be so much easier for both tenant and landlord to rent unfurnished - as a clean sweep of the house/flat could be done at the end/beginning of each tenancy making things easier for the tenant moving to take everything and for the landlord to paint/repair the actual house (not contents). A previous post mentions that young people don't have money to furnish a house/flat, but I myself was young when I rented my first apartment (in NY) and had to furnish it completely myself - obviously this was done bit by bit--this is the norm there and no one gives it another thought in the US; and I believe it's the same in Australia.

Here though, we've found that some tenants renting a house can love it when viewing and once they're in nitpick over things. We had a tenant once try to deduct money from the rent for flowers she planted in the garden - absolutely ludicrous! I am definitely in favour of renting unfurnished but as McDook says - most won't look at unfurnished places - it would be great to have a united front of landlords renting only unfurnished to change this.

ABajaninCork

I'd have the hand off anyone who had an unfurnished house for rent!

Pawwed Rig

ABajaninCork wrote: »

I'd have the hand off anyone who had an unfurnished house for rent!

I offered one unfurnished once and eventually had to buy furniture. There was no interest at all.

ABajaninCork

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I offered one unfurnished once and eventually had to buy furniture. There was no interest at all.

Was it in Cork? :P

Seriously though. What's with the furnished vibe with property here? I don't mind renting, but I'd FAR rather have my own beds, crockery and furniture as I'm sure it's of much better quality than that of the landlord, and it'd be better taken care of. I would also know where it's been!

I think it's also a good indicator to the landlord that we're serious, long-tern tenants who would take good care of the property.

Pawwed Rig

Renting was considered a short term option which people do for a few years before buying. that might be changing now but it won't change quickly

djimi

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Was it in Cork? :P

Seriously though. What's with the furnished vibe with property here? I don't mind renting, but I'd FAR rather have my own beds, crockery and furniture as I'm sure it's of much better quality than that of the landlord, and it'd be better taken care of. I would also know where it's been!

I think it's also a good indicator to the landlord that we're serious, long-tern tenants who would take good care of the property.

Again its down to the demographic of the rental market in Ireland. A lot (the majority Id imagine) of Irish renters are young and starting out their independant lives. Being able to walk into a furnished apartment/house and not having to worry about finding a couple of grand to kit the place out suits people who would typically be on lower paid jobs starting out.

Renting is (or at least was) not seen as a long term option in Ireland. Most people rented in their early 20s with a view to being a homeowner by their mid to late 20s. That culture may be slowly changing, but even now I dont know many people (if any) who plan on renting long term.

Its just the culture that Ireland has always had. No point in comparing it to the likes of Germany where people typically rent unfurnished and bring everything up to and including the kitchen sink with a view to being there for 20 years. Thats just not the rental culture that Ireland had, and pretty much its still not the way that it is today.

Potatoeman

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I offered one unfurnished once and eventually had to buy furniture. There was no interest at all.

That because most are. If you bought all the furniture and had to move to a place that had furniture you would need to get the existing furniture removed.

The matress thing could be back related. Soft matresses can be sore for people with back issues but they should have mentioned this to you if you were replacing it.

Pawwed Rig

Potatoeman wrote: »

That because most are.

Exactly. Unfortunately most LL do not have to facilities to store furniture where the tenant does not need it.

Potatoeman wrote: »

The matress thing could be back related. Soft matresses can be sore for people with back issues but they should have mentioned this to you if you were replacing it.

If someone has a back issue it is their own responsibility to look after it. More reason to buy their own mattress.

Mrs OBumble

djimi wrote: »

Again its down to the demographic of the rental market in Ireland. A lot (the majority Id imagine) of Irish renters are young and starting out their independant lives. Being able to walk into a furnished apartment/house and not having to worry about finding a couple of grand to kit the place out suits people who would typically be on lower paid jobs starting out.

Renting is (or at least was) not seen as a long term option in Ireland. Most people rented in their early 20s with a view to being a homeowner by their mid to late 20s. That culture may be slowly changing, but even now I dont know many people (if any) who plan on renting long term.

New Zealand's renting market demographic is very similar, and unfurnished is the norm there.

This means that there is an active market for 2nd hand furniture, and that young people who are just starting out start with cheap stuff and then upgrade it as they can afford it. It most certainly does not take a couple of grand to acquite a bed + bedding, table, chair, cup, plate and basic cooking utensils, and heater, which is the absolute minimum to start with. Even if you add a fridge and washiing machine (which can be rented to start with, and for which 2nd-hand exist too), it's still in the hundreds.

House sharing helps too - potential flatmates are judged not only on what they are like as being, but also what they can bring to the house. Not pissing off the guy who owns the TV / stereo / microwave / etc because he might move out is a good incentive for getting along with people.

This way people acquire "stuff" of the quality they want over time - so when they eventually do buy a house (or get allocated a social house) they don't have to go out any buy everything all at once.

I plan on renting here long term (unless I win the Lotto!), because I do not see any way that I will be able to afford to purchase a house here unless I sell my property overseas, and that would have some unpleasant tax consequences which would probably means I could not afford to buy here.

Potatoeman

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

New Zealand's renting market demographic is very similar, and unfurnished is the norm there.

This means that there is an active market for 2nd hand furniture, and that young people who are just starting out start with cheap stuff and then upgrade it as they can afford it. It most certainly does not take a couple of grand to acquite a bed + bedding, table, chair, cup, plate and basic cooking utensils, and heater, which is the absolute minimum to start with. Even if you add a fridge and washiing machine (which can be rented to start with, and for which 2nd-hand exist too), it's still in the hundreds.

House sharing helps too - potential flatmates are judged not only on what they are like as being, but also what they can bring to the house. Not pissing off the guy who owns the TV / stereo / microwave / etc because he might move out is a good incentive for getting along with people.

This way people acquire "stuff" of the quality they want over time - so when they eventually do buy a house (or get allocated a social house) they don't have to go out any buy everything all at once.

I plan on renting here long term (unless I win the Lotto!), because I do not see any way that I will be able to afford to purchase a house here unless I sell my property overseas, and that would have some unpleasant tax consequences which would probably means I could not afford to buy here.

Or you end up with people that have multiple duplicate items in the same property. It wont catch on overhere as we have one year leases which aslo result in tennants not wanting to do maintance themselves.
I remember someone during the boom doing up their apartment and tbe LL paying for the materials then increasing their rent two months later.

aido79

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

The mattress in my current flat is rubbish. It didn't really bother me as I could sleep anywhere, but the OH insisted we do something about it. Since I wasn't prepared to buy a new mattress, since we're likely not to be in the UK long term, we got a mattress topper made of memory foam. Fantastic buy, much more comfortable bed now and we don't have to worry about the size of a mattress if we move.

You do know Ireland isn't in the UK don't you?

I will be putting a house up for rent later this year and had considered trying to rent it unfurnished because I live in Australia and that is the norm here and it works really well for most people. But the general opinion here seems to be that it wouldn't work in Ireland. I wonder if I offered it a little cheaper would I maybe get a family that may have their own furniture.

whiteandlight

aido79 wrote: »

You do know Ireland isn't in the UK don't you?

I will be putting a house up for rent later this year and had considered trying to rent it unfurnished because I live in Australia and that is the norm here and it works really well for most people. But the general opinion here seems to be that it wouldn't work in Ireland. I wonder if I offered it a little cheaper would I maybe get a family that may have their own furniture.

Put it up, it's no harm. I'm renting semifurnished and love it. We're able to purchase as we go along while saving over the next few years for a house. There's more of us now with the housing market the way it is

gemini_girl

I would much prefer to rent unfurnished. My 5 yr old was sleeping on a mattress that was so old the whole thing collapsed into itself if you stood it up! He had awful neck & back pain. I suppose it your single or a couple its ok to bring your own bed but when its a family you seriously limit yourself if you buy all your own furniture & then can only find furnished places to rent. If rental agreements were longer this would also help. My 5 year old has lived in 6 different houses & 3 yr old 3 different houses, all because of 12 month contracts etc. This has serious implications for children as ive seen with my own, not feeling secure or able to have a nice bedroom done up for a child. Another house move for us again now in next few months as house we are in now is for sale with alot of viewings etc. Would be great if things changed for people renting esp now as its so hard to get a mortgage so lots of families with children forced to rent now

pwurple

I had to furnish a place i initially advertised as unfurnished as well... In cork city. When these tenants go i will be chucking out the furniture again (i put in cheap stuff) and will retry unfurnished. I would mch prefer people bring their own bits so I can put my upgrade budget into fixtures, fittings and repairs.

Pawwed Rig

WhiteTiger wrote: »

If rental agreements were longer this would also help. My 5 year old has lived in 6 different houses & 3 yr old 3 different houses, all because of 12 month contracts etc.

A couple of people have mentioned renatal agreement length. How long would people like them to be? Most people can avail of part 4 tenancies after their initial lease expires so you are guaranteed the property for 4 years. This was specifically brought in to provide security of tenure for renters.

Gatling

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

A couple of people have mentioned renatal agreement length. How long would people like them to be? Most people can avail of part 4 tenancies after their initial lease expires so you are guaranteed the property for 4 years. This was specifically brought in to provide security of tenure for renters.

Personally I'd like to be able to sign a 3-5 year lease having two kids its nice to have stability not having the current situation of having to start looking for alternative places every 10 months just in case the ll decides he doesn't want to renew a lease

Pawwed Rig

Gatling wrote: »

Personally I'd like to be able to sign a 3-5 year lease having two kids its nice to have stability not having the current situation of having to start looking for alternative places every 10 months just in case the ll decides he doesn't want to renew a lease

But you don't have to move every 10 months. There are very few reasons where a LL can ask you to move out after the expiry of a standard lease. It ususally does not matter what the LL wants as the tenant has all of the rights.

murphaph

Gatling wrote: »

Personally I'd like to be able to sign a 3-5 year lease having two kids its nice to have stability not having the current situation of having to start looking for alternative places every 10 months just in case the ll decides he doesn't want to renew a lease

I would love to be able to offer 4 year leases that parallel the Part IV rights. You could offer the tenant not only security of tenure (which they have under Part IV) but security of rent, ie, pay x amount per month for the next 4 years.

The problem is it doesn't work because as soon as the market falls, tenants want rent reductions and aren't afraid of walking all over a signed lease (if no reduction just leave, not paying the last month's rent etc.). Leases are something that practically speaking strengthens the tenant's hand but weakens the landlord's. That's the essence of the problem-no fairness.

Edit: Oops, didn't see mod comment. Yeah a thread split would be good here probably!

djimi

murphaph wrote: »

I would love to be able to offer 4 year leases that parallel the Part IV rights. You could offer the tenant not only security of tenure (which they have under Part IV) but security of rent, ie, pay x amount per month for the next 4 years.

The problem is it doesn't work because as soon as the market falls, tenants want rent reductions and aren't afraid of walking all over a signed lease (if no reduction just leave, not paying the last month's rent etc.). Leases are something that practically speaking strengthens the tenant's hand but weakens the landlord's. That's the essence of the problem-no fairness.

Edit: Oops, didn't see mod comment. Yeah a thread split would be good here probably!

With regards the rent, a long term fixed rent also works against a landlord sometimes too. I doubt many landlords in Dublin are wishing that they signed long term leases right now, when in most areas they can ask for a lot more than they could have done a year or two ago.

murphaph

djimi wrote: »

With regards the rent, a long term fixed rent also works against a landlord sometimes too. I doubt many landlords in Dublin are wishing that they signed long term leases right now, when in most areas they can ask for a lot more than they could have done a year or two ago.

Exactly! It can work for or against either side in theory but in practice if the market falls and the landlord won't agree to a rent reduction then the tenant just leaves and doesn't pay the last month's rent, riding roughshod over the contract they signed with the landlord in (presumably) good faith and because of costs it is not worth the landlord's while chasing the tenant for breach of contract, whereas if the landlord chucks a tenant out then the whole weight of the system is brought to bear on said landlord at no cost to the tenant whatsoever, up to and including seeking injunctive relief in the high court (all paid for by landlords through their PRTB fees). The whole game is one sided, so long term leases will not appear on the horizon any time soon.

If tenants who bail on signed contracts were pursued with equal vigour by the PRTB as they pursue landlords who perform illegal evictions then the playing field would be leveled somewhat.

Stheno

Last time I rented five years ago I did so unfurnished (negotiated between me and the landlord) and got a 10% reduction in rent as a result.

The previous residents had also rented unfurnished and he expected to have to kit it out

gemini_girl

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

A couple of people have mentioned renatal agreement length. How long would people like them to be? Most people can avail of part 4 tenancies after their initial lease expires so you are guaranteed the property for 4 years. This was specifically brought in to provide security of tenure for renters.

In our case house 1 my husband lost his job & LL wouldnt take rent allowance so we had to move.
House 2 the landlord was returning from another country abroad & wanted to move back in.
House 3 LL wanted big rent increase at end of term
House 4 Rent allowance limits were decreased & LL couldnt reduce for us
House 5 we moved because of mice & insect issues
House 6 we are in now but its up for sale & alot of interest so we'll be out again in the summer.
Its even harder with kids renting furnished because if they damage something its someone elses property.

odds_on

Unfortunately, Irish legislators in there infinite wisdom, put into law that any private residential property must include certain white domestic appliances and cooking equipment (Fridge freezer, washing machine or washer/dryer, hob, oven or cooker, microwave etc.

Thus, there can never be a truely "unfurnished" property offered for rent in this country.

Pawwed Rig

WhiteTiger wrote: »

In our case house 1 my husband lost his job & LL wouldnt take rent allowance so we had to move.
House 2 the landlord was returning from another country abroad & wanted to move back in.
House 3 LL wanted big rent increase at end of term
House 4 Rent allowance limits were decreased & LL couldnt reduce for us
House 5 we moved because of mice & insect issues
House 6 we are in now but its up for sale & alot of interest so we'll be out again in the summer.
Its even harder with kids renting furnished because if they damage something its someone elses property.

A longer lease is unlikely to hae helped in many of these situations.

uli84

good few immigrants in Ireland, can't imagine anyone coming here to look for work with 10K spare to buy furniture
I personally would be devastated if I had to rent unfurnished property

Blizzard

uli84 wrote: »

good few immigrants in Ireland, can't imagine anyone coming here to look for work with 10K spare to buy furniture
I personally would be devastated if I had to rent unfurnished property

I'm not sure where you'd be shopping for furniture to fit out a rental house (or any house on a budget) that would total €10K. Great second-hand/nearly new bargains to be had on Adverts.ie and DoneDeal...I definitely think if you shop around €1500 would fit out a 3 bed house.

ABajaninCork

uli84 wrote: »

good few immigrants in Ireland, can't imagine anyone coming here to look for work with 10K spare to buy furniture
I personally would be devastated if I had to rent unfurnished property

When I moved here from the UK, I brought my own furniture! And neither does it cost 10 large to fit out a flat or a house...

Mrs OBumble

uli84 wrote: »

good few immigrants in Ireland, can't imagine anyone coming here to look for work with 10K spare to buy furniture
I personally would be devastated if I had to rent unfurnished property

Oh there's a market for some furnished houses too.

But I certainly work with some immigrants who were annoyed when they brought their stuff here and then had real problems finding a house to put it in.