Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
The great big "Ask about Islam" thread
Options
Comments
-
-
silverharp wrote: »Islam cosmology ? Does the Qur'an assume the earth is flat? And then like Christianity does it depend on how literal the sect is in its interpretation , however it means some Muslims are forced into believing that the earth is indeed flat?, and the rest either argue that its not an important error or some kind of poetic references or are then forced to interpret that the Qur'an is right about the earth being a globe because every word has to be accurate and not contain any errors?
0 -
Aside from the comedy value, I would hope that esteemed readers of this forum would caterogise his ramblings in the same vein as the piano playing cat and various other internet memes. He is most likely a person whose reading rarely ventures beyond the Koran and the side of the cornflakes packet.
For another viewpoint, have a look at this site: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/cms/0 -
silverharp wrote: »Islam cosmology ? Does the Qur'an assume the earth is flat? And then like Christianity does it depend on how literal the sect is in its interpretation , however it means some Muslims are forced into believing that the earth is indeed flat?, and the rest either argue that its not an important error or some kind of poetic references or are then forced to interpret that the Qur'an is right about the earth being a globe because every word has to be accurate and not contain any errors?
There are two issues brought forth by each of the respected questioners here:
1) Does the Qur'an assume the earth is flat?
2) Does the Qur'an assume the earth is still/doesnt rotate?
To begin with I think this is a very good question and a first of this nature
Regarding the first question, the Qur'an and Islam do not contradict the fact that the earth is round but rather support it. There is a consensus (unanimous agreement) among the well known Islamic scholars that it is round, The 14th century theologian and polymath Ibn Taymiyyah discusses the question of the earth is it round or flat:
The 10th century Islamic scholar and Andalusian polymath Abu Muhammad ibn Hazm said:[That] celestial bodies are round - as it is the statement of astronomers and mathematicians - it is [likewise] the statement of the scholars of the Muslims; as Abul-Hasan ibn al-Manaadi, Abu Muhammad ibn Hazm, Abul-Faraj ibn al-Jawzi and others have quoted:
that the Muslim scholars are in agreement [that all celestial bodies are round]. Indeed Allah - taala - has said: And He (i.e., Allah) it is Who created the night and the day, the sun and the moon. They float, each in a falak (The Noble Quran, 21:33). Ibn Abbas says: A falaka like that of a spinning wheel. The [word] falak [in the Arabic language] means that which is round.
As for the other side of the earth it is surrounded by water. [Note: Admittedly, Ibn Taymiyah - as all Muslim scholars of his day- were not aware of the Americas and believed that the Old World was encompassed by an ocean.] There are no human beings or anything like that [on that side]. Even if we were to imagine that people were on that side of the earth, such individuals would still be on the face of the earth.
Those on that side of the earth are not below those who are on this side; just like those on this side are not below those on that side. For as all spherical bodies surround a center point, no one side of a spherical body is under the other, nor is the north pole under the south [Note: Unlike Western maps, Muslim cartographers (map-makers) would draw the world with the south-side up.] or vice versa.
Cited from: Majmu'ul-Fatawa(The Collections of Fatwa), Vol. 6, (Vol. 6, pp. 566-567)
Quoted from:
http://www.iupui.edu/~msaiupui/earlymuslimcon.htm
“He created the heavens and earth for a true purpose; He wraps the night around the day and the day around the night”We are going to discuss some of the arguments against the idea that the earth is round.
They said: There is sound evidence that the earth is round, but the common folk say otherwise. Our response – and Allah is the source of strength – is that none of the leading Muslim scholars who deserve to be called imams or leaders in knowledge (may Allah be pleased with them) denied that the earth is round, and there is no narration from them to deny that. Rather the evidence in the Qur’an and Sunnah stated that it is round.
Cited from: al-Fasl fi’l-Milal wa’l-Ahwa’ wa’l-Nihal (2/78)
http://books.google.ie/…/Kitab_al_fasl_fi_l_milal_wa_l_ahwa…;
Quoted from: http://islamqa.info/en/118698
[az-Zumar 39:5].
Ibn Hazm and others quoted this verse as evidence.
One of the most prominent Sunni Muslim Islamic scholars in the last century Ibn ‘Uthaymeen said:The earth is round, based on the evidence of the Qur’an, reality, and scientific views.
The evidence of the Qur’an is the verse in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):
“He created the heavens and earth for a true purpose; He wraps the night around [yukawwir] the day and the day around the night”
[az-Zumar 39:5].
The word yukawwir (translated here as “wraps around” means to make something round, like a turban. It is well-known that night and day follow one another on earth, which implies that the Earth is round, because if you wrap one thing around another thing, and the thing that it is wrapped around is the Earth, then Earth must be round.
Quoted from Fatwa 'Light or the road' noor al Darb:
https://archive.org/…/en_03_Fatawa_Noor_Ala_Al-Darb_djvu.txt
Further more of the indications present in Qur’an regarding the fact that the Earth is spherical/round, can also be surmised from the following verses:
The Lord of the heavens and the earth and what is between them, and Lord of the easts.
But nay! I swear by the Lord of the Easts and the Wests that We are certainly able to bring instead (others) better than them, and We shall not be overcome.
The works of Ibn Hazam inspired Muhammad al-Idrisi an 11th century Muslim geographer, cartographer, Egyptologist who depicted the world as a globe who then created the most accurate map of the world in pre-modern times for the Norman king at the time.This verse argues about Easts and Wests, and number of points of rising and setting of the sun, for which the earth should necessarily be spherical, because it is a universally admitted fact that if the earth had been flat there would have been only one East and one West. And only because the earth is round and inclined that every point of the earth can have a particular East and a separate West.
And the sun rising on a certain point from different points of the earth, just as sometimes it is necessary that it set on other part of the earth; therefore the Easts and Wests being many is clear proof of the earth being spherical.
Cited from: http://www.al-islam.org/philosophy-islamic-laws-ayatullah-a…;
Before I leave this question I think it's important to quickly review the verses presented by anti-Islamic sites the likes of Wiki-Islam and others to try and point out that the earth is flat:
The following verse and others in its contexts are used in an attempt to support their claim:
"And (do they not look) at the Earth, how it was made FLAT (Sutihat)." (88): 20]
I will leave it to Saudi Arabian Islamic scholar Abd al-Aziz ibn Baz the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia in last century well known for his immense religious erudition/knowledge and continue to hold a high prestige among the modern Islamic scholars today:
Now the controversial views of Ibn Baaz regarding the rotation of the earth is well known, in fact they are cited by the preacher in the Video Al-Khaybari to support his argument, both use contemporary logic and rational to assert their claim (that the earth is static and the sun is moving).The Shaikh Ibn Baaz:
According to the people knowledge (scholars of Islaam) the earth is round; for indeed Ibn Hazim and a group of other scholars mentioned that there is a consensus (unanimous agreement, Ijmaa') among the people of knowledge that it is round. This means that all of it is connected together thus making the form of the entire planet like a ball. However, Allaah has spread out surface for us and He has placed firm mountains upon it and placed the animals and the seas upon it as a mercy for us. For this reason, Allaah said: "And (do they not look) at the Earth, how it was made FLAT (Sutihat)." [Al-Ghaashiyyah (88): 20]
وَإِلَى الْأَرْضِ كَيْفَ سُطِحَتْ
WA- 'ILAA AL- 'ARD. KAYFA SUT.IH.AT
And at the earth, how it is spread out?
Therefore, it (the Earth) has been made flat for us in regards to its surface, so that people can live on it and so that people can be comfortable upon it.
The fact that it is round does not prevent that its surface has been made flat. This is because something that is round and very large, if it is made flat (its surface), then its surface will become very vast or broad (i.e. having a flat appearance). Yes."
Source: http://en.islamtoday.net/node/927
The poster IslamicReplies in the Islamic forum cited below expanded on this verse and a number of other in refuting the Anti-Islamic sites claim 'The Qur'an says earth is flat'
http://www.islamic-life.com/…/refuting-quran-earth-flat-2910
Both him and the preacher however failed to realize; that the spinning and orbital speeds of Earth stay the same/is constant so we do not feel any acceleration or deceleration and we are spinning along with the earth in this constant speed, which is enough to refute their bizarre arguments against the earth rotation, them not realizing this is no surprise as Tom has said when their readings rarely ventures beyond the Koran and the side of the cornflakes packet, they even think that American landing on the moon never happened but was a Hollywood ploy to fool the world.
Nevertheless Ibn Baaz still supported and held the view that the earth is round, which is often misrepresented in anti-Islamic sites which state that he said the earth is flat which is completely false as shown above.
I will address the second question on a later post, for you if you wish to discuss what I presented or point out to something I missed, but it's important to note that the Qur'an is not a book of science nor does it claim to be so, the Qur'an does not want its followers to believe in it blindly and constantly command us to think,ponder,reflect, use our brains and intellect to discover and understand the reality of the world around us and the meaning of the book,with the first verse in the Qur'an revealed being 'Read/study', which is why we believe that the Qur'an cannot contradict established scientific facts.
Muhammad was not a scientist, he was an illiterate. He wouldn't of been able to interpret the verses with a scientific dimension because of that. That is the whole reason why the Quran says it is for the whole of humanity, so it can be examined and interpreted for all times and uses a wide range of literally devices,metaphors and allegories that can be interpreted by different people in different times based on their capacity and understanding on different time.0 -
-
Advertisement
-
-
Defender OF Faith wrote: »
I will address the second question on a later post, for you if you wish to discuss what I presented or point out to something I missed, but it's important to note that the Qur'an is not a book of science nor does it claim to be so, the Qur'an does not want its followers to believe in it blindly and constantly command us to think,ponder,reflect, use our brains and intellect to discover and understand the reality of the world around us and the meaning of the book,with the first verse in the Qur'an revealed being 'Read/study', which is why we believe that the Qur'an cannot contradict established scientific facts.
Muhammad was not a scientist, he was an illiterate. He wouldn't of been able to interpret the verses with a scientific dimension because of that. That is the whole reason why the Quran says it is for the whole of humanity, so it can be examined and interpreted for all times and uses a wide range of literally devices,metaphors and allegories that can be interpreted by different people in different times based on their capacity and understanding on different time.
Ill assume from the the line I highlighted that its vital that the Koran cant have obvious errors in it. Ill take the point of metaphors and allegories , they are useful literary devices which make reading literature more interesting but if the case that the Qur'an is somehow channeled by God then they still need to convey facts correctly.
I was searching a few videos and came across this one, which does a good job of threading the idea that the Qur'an was written in a way that there is no understanding o f the earth in relation to the cosmos. One of the points is 18:89-90 where East is written as being a fixed point where the Sun rises and that the commentaries create absurdities that the "black" people have to hide in tunnels when the Sun is rising and only come out at mid day when the sun is high in the sky.
Other points being that the author of the Qur'an made no attempt to make simple clear statements that for instance stars are far away and instead writes about them being flat objects held up above the earth which is a nonsense of course.
A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer
0 -
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Hi. Prefacing this with my usual caveat that I'm not a Muslim but as you're unlikely to get any (serious) answers before tomorrow I'll throw this out there. Bring a scarf with you as you may be required to cover your head, best thing to do is just check when you get there. From my experiences of being in mosques your son will be fine to stay with you, the gender segregation relates to adults and prayers - there's no reason, that I know of, why he would need to stay in the men's section. In relation to addressing the Imam, just ask him. All of this will depend on the mosque but the fact that you are being invited would suggest you don't need to get worried about this stuff.I have been offered the opportunity to visit a mosque tomorrow. My young son (aged 10) is coming with me.I regard this as a wonderful opportunity. I have a few questions: should I wear a head scarf to cover my hair, will my son be able to stay with me or would he have to go to the men's section and finally, how should I address the Imam.
Any information would be helpful.
Thank you
Some advice; assuming this is something you would normally do, don't offer to shake his hand when you meet, wait for him to offer. Some Muslims (male and female) will not make physical contact with members of the opposite sex so I've always found it easier, and potentially less awkward, just to let the other person make the gesture first. (This is also an issue for Muslims I know who generally do shake hands with people they meet so it's not a Muslim vs non-Muslim thing in case anyone tries to start that.)
Assume that you and your son will have to remove your shoes too - so clean socks with no holes in them will be a must
. I say assume because I have been in larger mosque complexes (in Muslim countries) where certain areas were fine to walk around in shoes, but in smaller mosques it's generally a case, in my experience, that you don't wear shoes inside at all. It's a complete no-go in prayer areas. Look out for a shoe rack, or lots of shoes lying around, when you see those it means take them off. 0 -
-
-
Advertisement
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9Jp_XCvVto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FaNg_nxqns
Advertisement