The great big "Ask about Islam" thread

yellowlabrador

When I was young, I lived in the Middle East. I visited the UAE, Oman, Qatar, Iraq , Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Lebanon. This was in the early 70's. In those days it was considered offensive to take a picture of any human form in some of those countries and I remember always being warned to hide my camera and never take any pictures that included people.
has this attitude changed? and if so why?

Defender OF Faith

marienbad wrote: »

Some are some aren't , that is not what I asked though . I asked who decides and how

Forgive me but am not sure I understand, are you asking me to define an insult?

marienbad

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

Forgive me but am not sure I understand, are you asking me to define an insult?

You are the one who wants to ban them , so how would you identify them ?

gallag

I noticed on the Paris thread in AH that in response to someone calling Mo a pedo defender of faith made what I suppose was a good point about judging 7th century morality by our own modern standards, as he said, just because very old men raping 9 year old girls is considered sickening by today's standards it was a different time back then and Mo was just doing what society on the whole consider normal! but then someone asked him, and I cannot remember the exact words but basically it was "if you cannot judge mo by today's morality then how can you accept the rest of it? how are his teachings relevant today if his morality is outdated?"

Is beating your wife if shouting at her and with holding sex has not worked morally unacceptable in 2015? Sex with slaves,etc etc

and if you agree that these things are indeed unfit for our modern world then does that cast doubt about the whole book?

I guess basically my question is if you can excuse Mo's actions by saying it was so long ago that the morals are completley alien to our modern world then how can you live your life by the teachings of that time when as you say it was a different world and not relevant to today?

Defender OF Faith

marienbad wrote: »

You are the one who wants to ban them , so how would you identify them ?

Allow me to reiterate what Bill from the Catholic league have said:

"While some Muslims today object to any depiction of the Prophet, others do not. Moreover, visual representations of him are not proscribed by the Koran. What unites Muslims in their anger against Charlie Hebdo is the vulgar manner in which Muhammad has been portrayed" http://www.catholicleague.org/muslims-right-angry/

I don't want to detail what I find offensive about the picture as I was hoping it seemed obvious, but tell me what might you not find offensive about the 2 pictures on the top supposedly showing Muhammed(pbuh)?

marienbad

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

Allow me to reiterate what Bill from the Catholic league have said:

"While some Muslims today object to any depiction of the Prophet, others do not. Moreover, visual representations of him are not proscribed by the Koran. What unites Muslims in their anger against Charlie Hebdo is the vulgar manner in which Muhammad has been portrayed" http://www.catholicleague.org/muslims-right-angry/

I don't want to detail what I find offensive about the picture as I was hoping it seemed obvious, but tell me what might you not find offensive about the 2 pictures on the top supposedly showing Muhammed(pbuh)?

You are not answering the question , how do you define vulgar or offensive and who decides ?

from_atozinc

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

Allow me to reiterate what Bill from the Catholic league have said:

"While some Muslims today object to any depiction of the Prophet, others do not. Moreover, visual representations of him are not proscribed by the Koran. What unites Muslims in their anger against Charlie Hebdo is the vulgar manner in which Muhammad has been portrayed" http://www.catholicleague.org/muslims-right-angry/

I don't want to detail what I find offensive about the picture as I was hoping it seemed obvious, but tell me what might you not find offensive about the 2 pictures on the top supposedly showing Muhammed(pbuh)?

this is the problem. getting offended over a stupid cartoon. ...as I said yee are just pure and utter gobsh1tes.......way too highly strung.

Defender OF Faith

marienbad wrote: »

You are not answering the question , how do you define vulgar or offensive and who decides ?

Am sorry you have said "so how would you identify them?" I assumed you meant how do I identify them as being offensive and gave my replay accordingly.

I find this definition found in Australia the commonwealth criminal code which makes it an offence "to use a postal or civil service in a way that reasonable person would regard as offensive" a good definition to what an insult might be.

Joe Doe

Q1. CHOIRBOY TYPE ISSUES: Whilst we're all aware of the reports last year of Islamic gangs in the Leeds area with 'very widespread' crimes against young teenage white girls. Do your religious/community leaders have the same level of problems with the whole you know 'priest & choirboy' issues - as per the RC Church does/did. Think the pope chap recently stated about 5% of priests partaked in some level of unsavory or inappropriate behavior 'of sorts'. There was also some recent news reports of the transfer of herpes through certain 'more orthodox' Jewish baptismal practices which sound fairly unpleasant, seems it's an small but universal issue across all organised religions...

Q2. EXERCISING Do your religious leaders have the ability to perform 'the aul exorcism of evil/satan etc' out from the human container? A few of the better RC ones are dedicated/trained specifically to this work, and there is reports of a large increases for their services n.b. I'd blame GTA on the Playstation, Kim Karashian & uTube for this. What would you use instead of the bible, cross, beads, water and the outfit. Would it just be the power of your black book, and what name would you address the dark one as? Garlic, sage, wooden stakes and ionised silver seemed to work well for common folks during the dark ages.

Defender OF Faith

from_atozinc wrote: »

this is the problem. getting offended over a stupid cartoon. ...as I said yee are just pure and utter gobsh1tes.......way too highly strung.

Again my friend to you it's a stupid cartoon but not to the Muslim, as all people have red lines,all views and cultures are sensitive with respect to what they have held dear. and Muhammed (pbuh) to us Muslims is very dear ~

marienbad

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

Am sorry you have said "so how would you identify them?" I assumed you meant how do I identify them as being offensive and gave my replay accordingly.

I find this definition found in Australia the commonwealth criminal code which makes it an offence "to use a postal or civil service in a way that reasonable person would regard as offensive" a good definition to what an insult might be.

We are not talking about some postal service though are we .

Are these offensive published on the death of Maggie Thatcher

Not G.R

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

Again my friend to you it's a stupid cartoon but not to the Muslim, as all people have red lines,all views and cultures are sensitive with respect to what they have held dear. and Muhammed (pbuh) to us Muslims is very dear ~

Here, freedom of speech and freedom of expression is very dear to us. Expecially the protection of ideas we don't like.

Nobody is saying you have to like the cartoons or agree with them. But the people publishing them have a fundamental right to do so. In turn you have a right to be offended, and nothing more. You don't have the right to tell them to stop or to force them to.

from_atozinc

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

Again my friend to you it's a stupid cartoon but not to the Muslim, as all people have red lines,all views and cultures are sensitive with respect to what they have held dear. and Muhammed (pbuh) to us Muslims is very dear ~

as I said, your type are all too highly strung, have yee not got other things to be worrying about other than feckin cartoons.


and can yee not just look at cartoon, be offended, ring the Muslim joe duffy and move on.

no, instead your type go out and murder 12 people and sh1te on about mohamed. and probably think when they go to the afterlife that theyeeill have 12 virgins or whatever waiting for them.

Joe Doe

...Can I add a third Q3 (question) based on the last comment above

Q1. CHOIRBOY TYPE ISSUES: Whilst we're all aware of the reports last year of Islamic gangs in the Leeds area with 'very widespread' crimes against young teenage white girls. Do your religious/community leaders have the same level of problems with the whole you know 'priest & choirboy' issues - as per the RC Church does/did. Think the pope chap recently stated about 5% of priests partaked in some level of unsavory or inappropriate behavior 'of sorts'. There was also some recent news reports of the transfer of herpes through certain 'more orthodox' Jewish baptismal practices which sound fairly unpleasant, seems it's an small but universal issue across all organised religions...

Q2. EXERCISING Do your religious leaders have the ability to perform 'the aul exorcism of evil/satan etc' out from the human container? A few of the better RC ones are dedicated/trained specifically to this work, and there is reports of a large increases for their services n.b. I'd blame GTA on the Playstation, Kim Karashian & uTube for this. What would you use instead of the bible, cross, beads, water and the outfit. Would it just be the power of your black book, and what name would you address the dark one as? Garlic, sage, wooden stakes and ionised silver seemed to work well for common folks during the dark ages.

Q3. REWARD OF VIRGINS: Does this not seem a bit glutenous to have such rich abundant rewards? Instead a place of peaceful landscapes, one nice lady/life-partner, cup of tea, choir of angels, maybe a nice waterfall and some rabbits about the place etc. The promise of a dozen young virgins all to ones self to take advantage of, instead sounds like a weekend away with that Andrew chap over in Florida. Don't mean to be offensive just the way it seems based on the somewhat universal law to avoid gluttony.

Defender OF Faith

Not G.R wrote: »

Here, freedom of speech and freedom of expression is very dear to us. Expecially the protection of ideas we don't like.

Nobody is saying you have to like the cartoons or agree with them. But the people publishing them have a fundamental right to do so. In turn you have a right to be offended, and nothing more. You don't have the right to tell them to stop or to force them to.

I didnt request that they stop or implied that they should be forced to infact I stated that since France is a Liberal state Hebdo is not breaking the law by publishing the cartoon, I merely questioned as to whether the freedom of insult & offend is beneficial to the great good of society.

marienbad

You said

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

Stifling of serious debate is unacceptable in Islam, critique of any ideas or belief is allowed but insult of any belief or people is not.

How do you suggest insults be identified ,who should identify them and how should they be stopped ?

Defender OF Faith

Joe Doe wrote: »

Q3. REWARD OF VIRGINS: Does this not seem a bit glutenous to have such rich abundant rewards? Instead a place of peaceful landscapes, one nice lady/life-partner, cup of tea, choir of angels, maybe a nice waterfall and some rabbits about the place etc. The promise of a dozen young virgins all to ones self to take advantage of, instead sounds like a weekend away with that Andrew chap over in Florida. Don't mean to be offensive just the way it seems based on the somewhat universal law to avoid gluttony.

You are welcome my friend ask any question you feel like asking

I will answer the 3rd question for now as it was brought forth in the "Women rights" thread and here was my answer which I invite you to read, before discussing this further if you wish:

The questioner asked:

irishdude11 wrote: »

The 'reward' of dozens of virgins in heaven for Muslim men is a good indication of how women are seen in Islamic society...objects.

All this sugar-coating I've read over the last few pages can't hide the fact that heaven in terms of Muslim males involves 'riding all around them'...i.e. having sex with loads of women they don't know.

Answer-edited:

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

There's much more to paradise to the Muslim then "sex" but I guess in this highly sexualised society "sex" is the only thing you would care about.
We are not ashamed to say that there will be sex in paradise. What do you think people will do in paradise? play the harp and sing hymns?
It's one of the many pleasures God has prepared in heaven, there are greater things then this for a Muslim such as seeing the face of our lord,the prophets and the companions. The prophet told about how the person in the lowest rank in heaven will have 10 times the kingdom of a king amongst the kings of the world, so we can only imagine what those in higher positions will obtain, and certainly it's not only sex.

The prophet said that "In Paradise there is a tree in whose shade a rider could travel for a hundred years without crossing it. Recite, if you wish: ‘In shade long-extended’ [al-Waaqi’ah 56:30]" described as being the width of the heaven and earth with over following rivers of milk,honey and wine.

"The description of Paradise which the pious have been promised is that in it are rivers of water the taste and smell of which are not changed; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine delicious to those who drink; and rivers of clarified honey [clear and pure].." [47:15]

Further described by the prophet when asked: "From what is Paradise built?" He said, "Bricks of gold and silver and mortar of fragrant musk; its pebbles are pearls and rubies, and its soil is saffron. Whoever enters it is blessed with joy and will never be miserable; he will remain there forever and never die; his clothes will never wear out, and his youth will never fade away."

Also this thread deals with women rights in Islam and we have been establishing so far that women our sisters and are equal to us, we are ordered as Men to lower our gaze in instances were we might think about them in such a way, A Muslim will kneel down to his mother feet in humility because his prophet have told him paradise is under her feet & her rights are 3x that of the father, how can we be objectifying women while holding them in such high esteem?. We were not "sugar coating" coating anything here my friend.

Follow up-edited:

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

Arguing about something that will happen in paradise a place which is an unseen world that we know little about is pointless. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, said: I have prepared for My pious servants bounties which no eye (has ever) seen, no ear has (ever) heard and no human heart has ever perceived."

We Muslim believe that every one in heaven will be pleased,every one will feel content with their position.God talk about paradise by saying “Therein you shall have (all) that your inner selves desire, and therein you shall have (all) for which you ask for.”[31:31-32] Therefore in Paradise its inhabitants, whether male or female, will have every thing that they wish for and they will abide therein forever.
No one will be single, a man will be reunited with his wife in this world & everyone will be married and there's no slavery, " therein shall they have pure spouses, and We shall admit them to a place of plenteous shade. (4:157)".

Source: http://www.islamicislamic.com/paradise_description.htm

Defender OF Faith

marienbad wrote: »

You said

How do you suggest insults be identified ,who should identify them and how should they be stopped ?

Any reasonable person can differentiate insult from criticism. Insults are meant to intentionally provoke and offend and cannot be refuted like criticism using a sound and intellectual argument as it purely stems from the insulter's subjective sentiment.

The books I mentioned about the Scientific errors in the Qur'an or "Is the Qur'an infallible" are great examples of critical & intellectual work that did not result in a riot but lead to intellectual discussions about the premises and the arguments presented, that have been debated and refuted in the past.

marienbad

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

Any reasonable person can differentiate insult from criticism. Insults are meant to intentionally provoke and offend and cannot be refuted like criticism using a sound and intellectual argument as it purely stems from the insulter's subjective sentiment.

The books I mentioned about the Scientific errors in the Qur'an or "Is the Qur'an infallible" are great examples of critical & intellectual work that did not result in a riot but lead to intellectual discussions about the premises and the arguments presented, that have been debated and refuted in the past.

This is quite simply incorrect and unworkable , for example what did you think of the Maggie Thatcher cartoons I posted ?

Defender OF Faith

marienbad wrote: »

This is quite simply incorrect and unworkable , for example what did you think of the Maggie Thatcher cartoons I posted ?

I don't know much about Maggie Thatcher,her policies or contributions if any, for me to comment on the cartoon, a Britisher will be able to answer this question better then me, but for someone who was a PM of a powerful country in Europe to be depicted in hell at the time of her death I do find that disrespectful regardless of who's the person in question, as my prophet once stood up when a funeral of a Jewish man in Medina passed by him out of respect & When he was told that it was the coffin of a Jew, he said, "Is it not a living being (soul)?"* and did not shout out or speak that this Jewish man was in hell.

[*1312 Bukhari]

marienbad

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

I don't know much about Maggie Thatcher,her policies or contributions if any, for me to comment on the cartoon, a Britisher will be able to answer this question better then me, but for someone who was a PM of a powerful country in Europe to be depicted in hell at the time of her death I do find that disrespectful regardless of who's the person in question, as my prophet once stood up when a funeral of a Jewish man in Medina passed by him out of respect & When he was told that it was the coffin of a Jew, he said, "Is it not a living being (soul)?"* and did not shout out or speak that this Jewish man was in hell.

[*1312 Bukhari]

The point is though some people found it deeply insulting and other felt it was a just view of her legacy.

What is satire to one is fair comment to another, The question is who and how decides - a question you keep avoiding

Defender OF Faith

marienbad wrote: »

The point is though some people found it deeply insulting and other felt it was a just view of her legacy.

No Muslim who knows the true nature of his prophet, will in any way view these cartoons as reflecting anything other then deep ignorance about the life of Muhammed & a direct insult to him, I have said before and I say it again "What unites Muslims in their anger against Charlie Hebdo is the vulgar manner in which Muhammad has been portrayed" it's not an issue of dispute between 1.8 Billion Muslim that these cartoons are offensive.

I don't expect you to understand, as to you Muhammed (pbuh) is a man like any other man, however to us Muslims he's the most perfect man to have walked this earth(pbuh), whom we are suppose to love more then ourselves, a mercy not only to humankind but to animals as well, and I was expecting you to question me regarding his character to try and understand why we love & hold him in such a high position.

marienbad

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

No Muslim who knows the true nature of his prophet, will in any way view these cartoons as reflecting anything other then deep ignorance about the life of Muhammed & a direct insult to him, I have said before and I say it again "What unites Muslims in their anger against Charlie Hebdo is the vulgar manner in which Muhammad has been portrayed" it's not an issue of dispute between 1.8 Billion Muslim that these cartoons are offensive.

I don't expect you to understand, as to you Muhammed (pbuh) is a man like any other man, however to us Muslims he's the most perfect man to have walked this earth(pbuh), whom we are suppose to love more then ourselves, a mercy not only to humankind but to animals as well, and I was expecting you to question me regarding his character to try and understand why we love & hold him in such a high position.

Of course I understand why you hold him in such a high regard , just like you and Christians hold Jesus in a high regard . But that is not the point.
Others hold Lenin and Mao in the same regards but I regard them as nothing more than sick butchers in the service of a stupid political ideology

The point is why should what you or I hold sacred be treated as such by those billions that don't. Isn't it easier to just not read the magazine ?
You can't police the world

howamidifferent

How do you reconcile equality of women and bowing to mothers feet with strapping bombs to the backs of 10 year old little girls? Serious question? How does this work for your prophet?

Defender OF Faith

The issue of Aisha marriage is a very hot issue, that the prophet Muhammed(pbuh) is constantly criticized on by those ignorant and foolish of his life, and I wish that you understand such issue cannot be explained in a simple sentences hence excuse me for the length of this post ~

gallag wrote: »

But then someone asked him, and I cannot remember the exact words but basically it was "if you cannot judge mo by today's morality then how can you accept the rest of it? how are his teachings relevant today if his morality is outdated?"

Thank you for asking the question as I wanted to speak about this issue more but did not think that the thread was suitable to go into the details that I will go through now, I invite you to read the following with an open mind, and if you doubts the authenticity of anything I say tell me and I will provide the complete authentic source.

In India the legal age of marriage is 16 while in US states the age of marriage varies from 12 in state of Massachusetts to 15 in South Carolina. Who is to say which country has the morally acceptable legal age of marriage, India or the US? We have to realize that neither is false & that this is not an issue of morality. This is because in different time,places, and contexts the age of marriage varies.

Hence the question does not deal with morality but rather the laws and customs of the country. The age of consent prior to 1886 the age of consent for sexual relationship in marriage in the US was 6 years old this was moved to 10 years old in the state of California in 1887, before finally in 1897 it was moved to 14 years old, and there after the remaining state followed with the age of marriage in some being as young as 12 as stated before.

Muhammad(pbuh) marriage to Aisha was in accordance with the laws and costume of the time this is supported by the fact that before her marriage to Muhammad(pbuh), Aisha was previously engaged to a man named Jober Ibn Al-Moteam.

I would like to point out that in Islam there is no fixed age of marriage, whenever a person reaches the age of puberty he or she is fit for marriage. Nikah, the marital contract, may be made earlier but consummation of marriage can take place only after puberty is attained. It's also important to note that a women cannot be forced into marriage, and a marriage is only valid if she gives her consent:

O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will, and you should not treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the dowry you have given them, unless they commit open illegal sexual intercourse. And live with them honourably. If you dislike them, it may be that you dislike a thing and Allah brings through it a great deal of good.(4:19)

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “A previously-married woman has more right concerning herself than her guardian, and the permission of a virgin should be sought (regarding marriage), and her permission is her silence.”


The objective of marriage in Islam as defined by the Qur'an is to create love and mercy, establish a place of tranquillity for both couples; this cannot be archived if a girl is forced unwilling into marriage. And of His signs is that He created for you from yourselves mates that you may find tranquillity in them; and He placed between you affection,love and mercy. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought. 30:21

Your question now maybe is how can a girl of 9 year of age have reached puberty? to begin with she must have reached puberty otherwise the marriage would not have been consummated and the prophet would never commit such an act(pbuh). It's enough proof that Aisha herself have said: ‘When a girl is nine years old, she is a woman (meaning, she has attained puberty).’ (Tirmidhi, Hadith 1109) indicating that she considered her self a fully mature and capable women even at what appears to be such a young age.

Form this it's important to note that how a 9 year old mature 1400 years ago is not the same as the 9 year old today. According to the French philosopher Montesquieu in the "Spirit of laws" which was used in developing the American constitution, that in hot climate such as the 6th century Arabian desert women were marriageable at 8,9 or 10 years of age.

However when an ignorant foolish person calls the prophet a "paedophile", this means that the father of Aisha and her mother facilitated such relationship two of the most honourable people in the history of Islam, in fact his enemies at Qurish insulted him in every possible way, and if this marriage was in anyway considered a shame for the prophet they would have jumped at the opportunity to insult him further using this marriage. It's also to note that Muhammed (pbuh) first wife was 15 years older then him and was a widow, 5 of his wives were widowed, Aisha was the only virgin he married (pbuh).

Every single one of the prophet marriages were not to satisfy his "sexual desires" but each one of them were without an exception for important reasons, performed to rehabilitate divorced and widowed women, or to strengthen bonds between friends and tribes. Some were done as an act of compassion toward a conquered foe. In the society of those times, they were regarded as acts of nobility and kindness.

The Prophet did not burden her with tough responsibilities of a wife and provided her ample opportunities to enjoy her age. He married women of all age groups, elder to him like Khadija (RA), of his own age like Sauda (RA), younger but mature of age like Zainab (RA) and much younger like Aisha (RA).


For a source of Muhammed wives and the reasons behind his marriage:
http://www.ispi-usa.org/muhammad/appendix2.html


Before I finish I think it's important to speak a little bit about Aisha our supposed "Victim" here and the deep,strong love shared between her and our prophet (pbuh) as it would make no sense for a girl to love a man that "forced her to marry him and molested her" as the foolish and ignorant say, but instead repulse and strongly hate & despise him

Everything we know about their marriage is coming to us from her, she's saying only the best thing about her husband Muhammed. She is praising him,loving him and caring about him.

She talks about how when she was young, she use to race with him and she use to beat him and as she said "I got older I got heavy and then he use to beat me in the races".She use to tease him and play trick on him, but still he was a very caring and a loving husband to her.

Aa'ishah speaks about how she would take a sip and then the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) would do so from the same spot her lips touched.

A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) says: “The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) would kiss me before leaving for prayers, and he would not perform an ablution.”

Once Aisha asked the Prophet (pbuh) “How is your love for me?”

“Like the rope’s knot,” he replied, indicating that it is strong and secure. And time after time thereafter, she would ask him: “How is the knot?”

And he would reply: “Ala haaliha” [in the same condition].


This man loved this women so much so that he died in her house, with his head on her lap, and the last thing she did was cleaning a tooth stick for him and putting it in his mouth and in this condition he passed away.

For the rest of her life she narrated for him and never said a single bad word about her husband and she never even considered to look at another man for the rest of her life. In her heart and mind she was still married to Muhammed.

We know that Aisha (RA) was considered the most learned among the all the Companions of the Holy Prophet (PBUH). The following testifies to this.

Abu Musa al-Ashari[companion] says: "Never had we (the companions) any difficulty for the solution of which we approached Aisha and did not get some useful information from her".

She narrated some 2210 Ahadith from the Prophet (PBUH) and this was possible only because she lived with him for nine years and that too at a young age when people have a sharp memory and great sense of observation. Then she lived for about 46 years after the death of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) and continued to teach the people matters of religion especially those related to household affairs and marital life. No other wife of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) did the similar job that may be compared with her blessed endeavours.

Sources:
http://www.letmeturnthetables.com/2008/07/why-prophet-muhammad-married-aisha-when.html
http://pearlsofislam.tumblr.com/post/24131886196/any-hadiths-on-love

This is the best answer I can give on this issue, if you wish to discuss it further or argue otherwise, I invite you to please open a thread and make sure you have evidence from authentic Islamic sources to support your claims ~ thanks again for bringing up such an important question.

Defender OF Faith

howamidifferent wrote: »

How do you reconcile equality of women and bowing to mothers feet with strapping bombs to the backs of 10 year old little girls? Serious question? How does this work for your prophet?

Thanks for the question as the OP have said the aim of this thread is to "dispel many of the myths surrounding Islam." & the only way I can do that is present the Islamic ruling on the matter using the Qur'an and Hadith.

There's a thread open about "women rights in Islam" which you are more then welcome to contribute toward, secondly the issue of "strapping bombs to the back of 10 year old girl" is an immoral and a cowardly act which any sane Muslim would condemn and has no basis in Islam.

Thirdly I think it's important to point that suicide is strongly condemned in the Qur'an and Islam and a person is not allowed under any circumstances to kill him or her self.

O you who have believed, do not consume one another's wealth unjustly but only [in lawful] business by mutual consent. And do not kill yourselves [or one another]. Indeed, Allah is to you ever Merciful.
4:29

The prophet have said : “Whoever kills himself with something will be punished with it on the Day of Resurrection.” [Bukhaari]


The Messenger of Allaah (blessings and peace of Allaah be upon him) said: “A man among those who came before you was wounded. He panicked and took a knife and cut his hand, and the bleeding did not stop until he died. Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, said: ‘My slave hastened his death; I have forbidden Paradise to him.” [Bukhaari]


What's pitiful and sad that these people have been mislead into committing such a act and kill themselves in the promise of martyrdom and paradise, in fact during the battle of khaybar the companions praised a man for his bravery and prowess and how he fought so violently and bravely that he received plenty of wounds. However the prophet said that he's among the dwellers of hell, it was later found out that this man due to his injury have killed him self and for this purpose he was denied paradise.*
[4203 Bukhari]

Unfortunately many of these Jihadist are ignorant of the teachings of their own religion and are driven by emotions and rage and the rhetoric of those "leaders" they claim to follow, it's no surprise that they come from groups condemned by the Muslims themselves as they do nothing but taint the image of Islam.

Tom Dunne

howamidifferent wrote: »

How do you reconcile equality of women and bowing to mothers feet with strapping bombs to the backs of 10 year old little girls? Serious question? How does this work for your prophet?

I'm just curious how this relates to Islam?

Tom Dunne

from_atozinc wrote: »

why are Muslim's such pure and utter gob****es and sh1te on about Mohamed so much. can they not just relax and take a chill pill ?

Any more trolling/sh!t-stirring and you will be banned.

gallag

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

The issue of Aisha marriage is a very hot issue, that the prophet Muhammed(pbuh) is constantly criticized on by those ignorant and foolish of his life, and I wish that you understand such issue cannot be explained in a simple sentences hence excuse me for the length of this post ~

Thank you for asking the question as I wanted to speak about this issue more but did not think that the thread was suitable to go into the details that I will go through now, I invite you to read the following with an open mind, and if you doubts the authenticity of anything I say tell me and I will provide the complete authentic source.

In India the legal age of marriage is 16 while in US states the age of marriage varies from 12 in state of Massachusetts to 15 in South Carolina. Who is to say which country has the morally acceptable legal age of marriage, India or the US? We have to realize that neither is false & that this is not an issue of morality. This is because in different time,places, and contexts the age of marriage varies.

Hence the question does not deal with morality but rather the laws and customs of the country. The age of consent prior to 1886 the age of consent for sexual relationship in marriage in the US was 6 years old this was moved to 10 years old in the state of California in 1887, before finally in 1897 it was moved to 14 years old, and there after the remaining state followed with the age of marriage in some being as young as 12 as stated before.

Muhammad(pbuh) marriage to Aisha was in accordance with the laws and costume of the time this is supported by the fact that before her marriage to Muhammad(pbuh), Aisha was previously engaged to a man named Jober Ibn Al-Moteam.

I would like to point out that in Islam there is no fixed age of marriage, whenever a person reaches the age of puberty he or she is fit for marriage. Nikah, the marital contract, may be made earlier but consummation of marriage can take place only after puberty is attained. It's also important to note that a women cannot be forced into marriage, and a marriage is only valid if she gives her consent:

O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will, and you should not treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the dowry you have given them, unless they commit open illegal sexual intercourse. And live with them honourably. If you dislike them, it may be that you dislike a thing and Allah brings through it a great deal of good.(4:19)

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “A previously-married woman has more right concerning herself than her guardian, and the permission of a virgin should be sought (regarding marriage), and her permission is her silence.”


The objective of marriage in Islam as defined by the Qur'an is to create love and mercy, establish a place of tranquillity for both couples; this cannot be archived if a girl is forced unwilling into marriage. And of His signs is that He created for you from yourselves mates that you may find tranquillity in them; and He placed between you affection,love and mercy. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought. 30:21

Your question now maybe is how can a girl of 9 year of age have reached puberty? to begin with she must have reached puberty otherwise the marriage would not have been consummated and the prophet would never commit such an act(pbuh). It's enough proof that Aisha herself have said: ‘When a girl is nine years old, she is a woman (meaning, she has attained puberty).’ (Tirmidhi, Hadith 1109) indicating that she considered her self a fully mature and capable women even at what appears to be such a young age.

Form this it's important to note that how a 9 year old mature 1400 years ago is not the same as the 9 year old today. According to the French philosopher Montesquieu in the "Spirit of laws" which was used in developing the American constitution, that in hot climate such as the 6th century Arabian desert women were marriageable at 8,9 or 10 years of age.

However when an ignorant foolish person calls the prophet a "paedophile", this means that the father of Aisha and her mother facilitated such relationship two of the most honourable people in the history of Islam, in fact his enemies at Qurish insulted him in every possible way, and if this marriage was in anyway considered a shame for the prophet they would have jumped at the opportunity to insult him further using this marriage. It's also to note that Muhammed (pbuh) first wife was 15 years older then him and was a widow, 5 of his wives were widowed, Aisha was the only virgin he married (pbuh).

Every single one of the prophet marriages were not to satisfy his "sexual desires" but each one of them were without an exception for important reasons, performed to rehabilitate divorced and widowed women, or to strengthen bonds between friends and tribes. Some were done as an act of compassion toward a conquered foe. In the society of those times, they were regarded as acts of nobility and kindness.

The Prophet did not burden her with tough responsibilities of a wife and provided her ample opportunities to enjoy her age. He married women of all age groups, elder to him like Khadija (RA), of his own age like Sauda (RA), younger but mature of age like Zainab (RA) and much younger like Aisha (RA).


For a source of Muhammed wives and the reasons behind his marriage:
http://www.ispi-usa.org/muhammad/appendix2.html


Before I finish I think it's important to speak a little bit about Aisha our supposed "Victim" here and the deep,strong love shared between her and our prophet (pbuh) as it would make no sense for a girl to love a man that "forced her to marry him and molested her" as the foolish and ignorant say, but instead repulse and strongly hate & despise him

Everything we know about their marriage is coming to us from her, she's saying only the best thing about her husband Muhammed. She is praising him,loving him and caring about him.

She talks about how when she was young, she use to race with him and she use to beat him and as she said "I got older I got heavy and then he use to beat me in the races".She use to tease him and play trick on him, but still he was a very caring and a loving husband to her.

Aa'ishah speaks about how she would take a sip and then the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) would do so from the same spot her lips touched.

A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) says: “The Messenger of Allah (Allah bless him & give him peace) would kiss me before leaving for prayers, and he would not perform an ablution.”

Once Aisha asked the Prophet (pbuh) “How is your love for me?”

“Like the rope’s knot,” he replied, indicating that it is strong and secure. And time after time thereafter, she would ask him: “How is the knot?”

And he would reply: “Ala haaliha” [in the same condition].


This man loved this women so much so that he died in her house, with his head on her lap, and the last thing she did was cleaning a tooth stick for him and putting it in his mouth and in this condition he passed away.

For the rest of her life she narrated for him and never said a single bad word about her husband and she never even considered to look at another man for the rest of her life. In her heart and mind she was still married to Muhammed.

We know that Aisha (RA) was considered the most learned among the all the Companions of the Holy Prophet (PBUH). The following testifies to this.

Abu Musa al-Ashari[companion] says: "Never had we (the companions) any difficulty for the solution of which we approached Aisha and did not get some useful information from her".

She narrated some 2210 Ahadith from the Prophet (PBUH) and this was possible only because she lived with him for nine years and that too at a young age when people have a sharp memory and great sense of observation. Then she lived for about 46 years after the death of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) and continued to teach the people matters of religion especially those related to household affairs and marital life. No other wife of the Holy Prophet (PBUH) did the similar job that may be compared with her blessed endeavours.

Sources:
http://www.letmeturnthetables.com/2008/07/why-prophet-muhammad-married-aisha-when.html
http://pearlsofislam.tumblr.com/post/24131886196/any-hadiths-on-love

This is the best answer I can give on this issue, if you wish to discuss it further or argue otherwise, I invite you to please open a thread and make sure you have evidence from authentic Islamic sources to support your claims ~ thanks again for bringing up such an important question.

first of, no 12 year old can be married in the states, 15 in a very rare case with the permission of a judge. Secondly you missed the crux of my question. also I do not use the term pedophile as an insult, it is simply a descriptive term for someone that has sex with children which you freely admit Mo did. Also "child bride" is a larger problem in muslim countries, probably stems from the head honcho having a penchant for the young and the whole massive disparity with female education! Also it's worth noting Mo was 53 when having sex with a 9yo so his later marriage to mostly widowed women is hardly surprising bearing what age he would have then been!

I shall try to be clearer, the facts are Mo married a 6 yo girl, now I appreciate you shall engage in mental gymnastics to present this as normal as I will freely admit it was different times but could the messenger of God not have said sex with children is wrong? and if his morals were so different to today then how can you base your life on a outdated book? like beating your wife? Sex with your slaves etc? Are parts of the Holy book outdated in your opinion?

howamidifferent

Tom Dunne wrote: »

I'm just curious how this relates to Islam?

It was my understanding that these groups are acting under the banner of Islam and looking to impose/create a state under Sharia law. Boko Haram using innocent children in this manner made me question how they can justify these actions to themselves and their faith. My question is not pointed at Defender of Faiths beliefs specifically but at Islam in general.