Extra Child support

lougholad

Hey all. just looking to see what you all think. I get paid €1600 after tax i pay €300 a month for my daughter. after bills im left with €400 a month with which i try and save a little so that i wont be living at home forever.

I just recieved a call from my childs mother saying that she is broke and asking me to pay €150 for art fees for school and €35 for hip hop. I calmly advised that I just dont have the money to pay it and that these expenses are re occuring and surely she should of budgeted for them. to which i recieved a nice string of abuse ending with i will se you in court.

I take her saturday and sunday one week then friday satuday and sunday every other week I pay for her when she is with me aswell.

I just dont see how a judge can ask me to pay more money?

or do you think a judge would ask me to pay more money?

am i being un reasonable?

Taltos

OP - please note legal advise is not permitted here.
With this in mind I will leave your thread open but if we start down that route we will have no choice but to close it. None of aus here can guess what a judge may or may not rule - that falls under the legal advice ban.

Thanks
Taltos

lougholad

just looking for opinions more than advice to be honest but thanks for leaving it open

desbrook

Ok I'll give MY opinion of your situation (I'm a separated dad of two kids btw and was married to their mum ) . It's a mixed picture as on the surface you aren't paying a lot . E300 is less than 20% of your total take home wage and represents less than E10 a day or E70 a week . It wouldn't keep many cars in petrol my friend . In case you are wondering yes I am better paid than you - but nearly 50% of my take home pay pays for both half a mortgage on a house I will never live in or own as well separate child maintaince for two kids .

In your favour is tha more than average amount of time you have the children which while enjoyable for all and good for them has a cost attached . It also is benificial to their mother . Presumabbly and hopefully you have been faithful and prompt with the 300 a month payment and it can be clearly verified i.e. you pay by anyhing but cash .

This brings me to the phone call - you did right not to pay cash under the table and I'm sure you possibly felt guity . At the same time accept that it was probably humiliating for your ex to ring up asking for money . It's not nice . Paying by cash here and there only ends two ways - both badly . Either she want's you to keep paying and you deny ever making the payments or else she asks for more money saying the official amount was all you ever paid .

Overall my friend let it go to court is my opinion . I do think that you could pay a little more - possibly . But I also think someone impartial and with the full facts has to decide if that's the case . The big advantage of a court situation is that you will know exactly how much you have to pay and your ex will know exactly what she is gettting . That is of huge benefit to both of you but probably you more so . Anybody with school going kids would love to be able to pay for those costs monthly to the cent and then be able to know its all paid . However a line needs to be drawn and thats what will happen in court .

My advice from now till then if it happens is to keep every reciept you can - especially for your costs when you have your child . Cinema , food , bed linen - the lot . If you access is not court appinted keep a diary of when you take your child also . Remember women are generally better at ocumenting these things so presume nothing . Best of luck .

lougholad

see im left with less than 400e a month for myself an im sharing a room with my 8 year old. How am i ever expected to get my own place if the cost keeps going up. Seems that the man gets the short end of the stick ImO..

thanks for your take on the matter. It has made me see it from a diffirent angle just dont see how im supposed to survive is all ha ha

desbrook

Would an extra 300 a month allow you to do all that ? And if you you don't pay the 300 should your child go without or should some-else pay ? ? Who should pay - me ?

lougholad

I already pay 300e and i always have she is married now with another child on the way and is looking to increase the current amount that i give her. I was just saying after bills rent and child support im left with under 400e for myself with which i try to save as much as i can because my travel and lunch and food comes out of this 400e. Iw ould never not pay for my child because she is mine but i cant see how i can give anymore.

desbrook

Ah ok - that's slightly different . As I said initially full facts are important . I simply don't know what a judge will think and no here really can even if we could offer legal advice . All I know is you need to bring as much proof as you can of your earnings/expenditure and warn your ex that if you do go to court you MAY be sseking a REDUCTION . You have lost 1650 euro in tax credit in the last budget remind her ;-)

lougholad

the budget is my biggest worry. my take home is going to decrease and she is expecting more money all i can do is laugh sometimes. Before she was married she had free education free appartment the usual "lone parent" stuff its comical. Anyway this isnt to be a rant about my ex or the state of the social welfere system. thanks for your opinion on the matter. I'll post back on the judges decision if she goes ahead with the court order.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

It might be best to become cash poorer in the short term for your situation. Get a loan from the Credit Union, buy a car, work out how much you pay to run the house you're currently living in (I bet it's more than you're giving yourself credit for), you have another childs expenses to factor in (different mother?), set up a standing order for a savings account ect ect ect.

To be honest, if you have 100 euro for yourself to live off a week you could easily look for a reduction. Contact FLAK, free legal advice place. You may be entitled to free legal aid, if you're not then pay for your own solicitor and that's yet another expense coming from your already low 'disposable' income. You can't even call it disposable income if it's being spent on transport to your work and feeding yourself while you're at work. Blood/Stone comes to mind.

You're already taking one child 2/7, 3/7, so already about 35% of the time. What's the story with the other child?

If you're serious about moving out (if you can and want to basically) then do it before court. You'll have a lease, bills in your own name ect., far less ambiguous to a judge who's just met you than 'I usually throw a 50 for food to my mom every second week and the electricity varies but I give my dad about half...', then again, ambiguity may have benefits as well.

As has been said, document absolutely everything, from a pair of socks for your kid to a pizza ye ordered together. It will do no harm and could do you plenty of good.

As a side issue, maybe a mediator might be a good route, ye both sit down and a well trained person can go through everything and come up with suggestions which can then be made a rule of court if ye both agree.

100200 shih

I only got €160 a month for 2 children, & before was only €100, both were orders of the courts. I haven't gotten any payments in 2 years, ( children are only 11 & 9 now )
I wish I got €300 a month !

lougholad

unfortunatly there is no way a mediator would do.. she loves the drama to much

lougholad

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

You're already taking one child 2/7, 3/7, so already about 35% of the time. What's the story with the other child?
.

Ive only the one child she has another one on the way. still heard nothing from the courts mabey shes changed her mind

ash23

How are your bills €900 per month if you don't have your own place and are living at home? That seems very high.

Is there any way you can reduce these bills by cutting back? €300 isn't a lot when you're earning €1600. I agree with the poster who said it should all be above board and you were right not to just give her cash. But I do think that 20% of your income isn't a whole lot in terms of paying for everything your child needs.

It's impossible to know which way a judge would go.

lougholad

I pay 500e a month living at home rent for myself and my daughter. 200e for gas and electric which i also pay 100e for a loan i have.. and try and save a little so that i can some day move out.. but sure why would i bother i now what ill do Ill pay extra 100e every month and live ina bouse with my "mammy" for the rest of my life. With this room i will have an extra bed for my daughter to stay in when she comes over for visits on the weekend.. hahahahahaha get real ash

maria34

Are u living in dublin or why the rent os so high? 500 for a room?

200 for gas and electricity? Im paying that money in my 2 bed flat with two kids... And thats not every month.

lougholad

Its my parents house. its a 3 bed in dublin sububrbs. I would hardly expect to live there for free. plus my dad is in construction so moneys tight. Id much prefere give them money than a landlord. Plus my daughter has alot of friends around here. Fact of the matter is my expenses are fixed these can not be changed. so quite simply i cant afford to pay more than 70e a week or 300e a month. plus as i said my daughter is with me every wkend. how is 70e not enough for 4 days a week one week and 5 days a week the next?

I have to pay anything extra im destined to live at home forever. which isnt going to do a lot of my relationship with my daughter as she gets older.

ash23

lougholad wrote: »

I pay 500e a month living at home rent for myself and my daughter. 200e for gas and electric which i also pay 100e for a loan i have.. and try and save a little so that i can some day move out.. but sure why would i bother i now what ill do Ill pay extra 100e every month and live ina bouse with my "mammy" for the rest of my life. With this room i will have an extra bed for my daughter to stay in when she comes over for visits on the weekend.. hahahahahaha get real ash

I was just asking. I'm a single parent with no child support and I've lived on a similar amount, renting a place for myself and my child, paying childcare and running a car, paying bills etc. It's a fair question so there's no need to get snotty with people who are trying to get a better picture of the circumstances.

Have you considered applying for local authority housing? It might be a means to an end. If you were on the list, then the money that you are saving could go towards your child instead of trying to save for a house.

I accepted a long time ago that I wouldn't ever own a house. I owned a house with my ex and at the time we separated I went on the housing list. But now I am over the earnings for local authority housing but trying to pay rent plus everything else means I've only just begun to break even every month. As a result I know that it's highly unlikely I'll ever buy a house and I've made peace with that and can see the advantages.


But I can guarantee that your ex is spending far more than you are on your child every month and I would think it's quite likely that the maintenance may be increased if you go to court. I've found that the expenses for children actually increase as they get older. Kids are a black hole for money and it doesn't seem to improve because as soon as one expense ends (childcare for example) another takes it's place (school expenses).

lougholad

She probably has more to spend. I would gladly take my daughter 5 days one week and 4 days the next week. and ask for no maintnenace form her mother. 300e a month for looking after my daughter and getting to spend more time with her?? yes please :)I will keep this updated with what happens in court anyway

ash23

lougholad wrote: »

She probably has more to spend. I would gladly take my daughter 5 days one week and 4 days the next week. and ask for no maintnenace form her mother. 300e a month for looking after my daughter and getting to spend more time with her?? yes please :)I will keep this updated with what happens in court anyway

What she has is irrelevant imo. It should be the costs of the child divided by two. One parent shouldn't be paying more simply because they are financially more sound.

I would suggest going to court and trying to get more access. But you will need to have a home for her if you want to get her full time. It's not really acceptable for her to be sharing a room with her parent if she's going to be with you more.
So if you sort out accommodation for yourselves you would stand a better chance of more access. Have you considered local authority housing?

lougholad

ash23 wrote: »

What she has is irrelevant imo. It should be the costs of the child divided by two.

I agree so are you telling me it costs more than €140e for an 8 year old girl a week?

A 22 year old man wouldnt even get that on the dole :O

ash23

lougholad wrote: »

I agree so are you telling me it costs more than €140e for an 8 year old girl a week?

A 22 year old man wouldnt even get that on the dole :O

Easily. The child has to have a roof over her head, electricity, heating etc so that portion of things has to taken into account. Your ex wouldn't be able to just rent one bedroom in a shared house if the child is with her full time. She would have to provide a proper home and that has associated costs that would be shared in a share house (bills like bins, ESB, heating etc).

Then the child is fed and clothed. Plus medical and dental expenses.

You might just be thinking about things like birthdays and christmas and back to school but there are other costs. Like friends birthday parties and a gift for that, school tours and classes. Magazines and day trips in school. Barely a week passes when I don't have to give my daughter money for athletics, swimming, going to a play with her class etc etc.
Then there's the pocket money and variety of things they might need occasionally and also the hobbies and extra curricular activities.
Possibly after school care. I'm sure there are plenty more I'm not even remembering but I seem to have my hand in my pocket daily for my daughter.

If you think your bills are high now, they'd probably be double if you had your child living with you full time.

lougholad

but she dosnt live with her mam full time she is with me 3 days a week.. 2/3rds of the expenses you mention are expenses that would have to be paid even if my daughter wasnt there.?? you want me to pay half of her rent elec gas car fuel ect hahaha thats ridiculous.. im left with left with less than 140e a week to get to work get lunch and do something other than sit in and watch telly on the wkends (cinema swimming ect. ) this is why i no longer smoke or drink.. because i bloody well cant afford to. if she wants extra money mabey she should knock the fags on the head

ash23

lougholad wrote: »

but she dosnt live with her mam full time she is with me 3 days a week.. 2/3rds of the expenses you mention are expenses that would have to be paid even if my daughter wasnt there.?? you want me to pay half of her rent elec gas car fuel ect hahaha thats ridiculous.. im left with left with less than 140e a week to get to work get lunch and do something other than sit in and watch telly on the wkends (cinema swimming ect. ) this is why i no longer smoke or drink.. because i bloody well cant afford to. if she wants extra money mabey she should knock the fags on the head

You don't seem to actually want constructive advice and just to vent so I'll bow out. Again I recommend looking into local authority housing as if your child is with you, then it's really important for you to provide her with a decent home.

On the website solo.ie there's a spreadsheet for working out costs for the child. If the child is with you 3/7 days one week and 2/7 then next, then work out the weekly cost and multiply by two to get the costs for 14 days. Divide the costs by 14 and you pay 9/14 (number of days your ex has her per fortnight) and she pays 5/14 (number of days you have her per fortnight) if you want to be exact about it rather than paying half. The difference between the two is the amount of maintenance you should be paying.

And yes, bills are factored into this in terms of electricity etc. You might not like it but it's part of raising a child.

You might also consider mediation with your ex rather than going to court.

lougholad

no not at all i just dont see how i can give money i havent got thats all. I'll check out solo.ie now cheers:)

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

lougholad wrote: »

no not at all i just dont see how i can give money i havent got thats all. I'll check out solo.ie now cheers:)

You need to move out of your parents house as soon as possible. 1600 after tax is enough money to run your own 2 bedroom apartment (maybe it's not in Dublin? Anywhere else it definitely is enough though).

What is your plan? Will you be on the same money this time next year/2/3 years? If you're money isn't going up then moving out sooner rather than later is the better option.

The benefits of maintaining your own residence are many fold. The only advantage of staying living with your parents is the 'safety' it brings.

lougholad

if i move out of dublin my commute will be more expensive. also i would be moving my daughter away from all of her friends. I love my job i work for a utilities company i dont see why i should have to give this up. A 2 bed aparment in dublin south is €1000 i really dont Know how i would run a home on €500 a month unless i lived in mabey the outskirts of carlow? I dont get how i would feel safe in my parents house?

ash23

lougholad wrote: »

I love my job i work for a utilities company i dont see why i should have to give this up. A 2 bed aparment in dublin south is €1000 i really dont Know how i would run a home on €500 a month unless i lived in mabey the outskirts of carlow? I dont get how i would feel safe in my parents house?

I think that when you have a child, what you want comes second to what your child needs. Your current job doesn't allow you to provide an adequate home for your child or cover what she needs. So even though you love it, it might be time to think about finding something that will provide what your daughter needs.

You can't always have the lifestyle that you want once you have children. Is it possible to retrain or seek a promotion in work? I've luckily managed to increase my income in the past 7 years. With my previous employer I upskilled on my own time and was able to seek promotion within the company. Then I changed to a different employer which included a salary increase. I've recently been promoted again within the company because I took on additional responsibilities and gained qualifications on my own time.

It might be an idea to look at ways of increasing your earnings so that you can afford to rent a place for yourself and your child.

lougholad

this is really no help at all

thanks for the comments tho

ash23

lougholad wrote: »

this is really no help at all

Have you taken any of the advice on board? Things won't change if you don't do something to change them. You want your daughter more but don't want to pay rent so she can have a house.
Your job doesn't pay enough but you don't want to upskill or look for something else. You don't want to live at home but you won't do anything to change that. You can't afford rent where you live but you don't want to relocate and you've ignored any mention of local authority housing.

If you don't do anything then in 5 years time you'll be still living at home, sharing a room with your teenage daughter and complaining that your ex has it better than you. Only you can change your lot in life.

lougholad

1- I never said i wanted my daughter more i said I would gladly take 300e a month and take her the days that my ex takes her and survive with ease.

2- i get 24k a year. 100e to my pension 100e to shares in the company then tax. Im pretty sure there is alot of people in the country at the moment who would love this wage.

3- Im currently running a small division within the company. (i dont just push pens). Hopefully with time my wage will reflect this but for know it dosnt

4- I am on the housing list since last week but theres 7 year waiting list.

5- there is nowhere in the country i could move to and run a 2 bed for 1000e a month. plus travel to work and food

lougholad

btw ash i think it is fantastic what you have done with your life and i mean that from the bottom of my heart.. I have seen plenty of woman in pretty much the same situation and are 100 times now more better off educationaly and finacially.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

Seeking mediation would be a good move. If you could take your daughter more, like 3/7, 4/7 then maybe you could pay no weekly maintenance but agree to pay half of everything instead, half school costs, clothes ect.

You're currently paying 700 to your parents per month, 300 to the mother, to me, on paper at least, you could afford to have your own home. If you need a 1 bedroom flat for a period of time, or move to a different part of Dublin (not Carlow) I'm sure you could manage, where there's a will, there's a way.

ash23

lougholad wrote: »

1- I never said i wanted my daughter more i said I would gladly take 300e a month and take her the days that my ex takes her and survive with ease.

2- i get 24k a year. 100e to my pension 100e to shares in the company then tax. Im pretty sure there is alot of people in the country at the moment who would love this wage.

3- Im currently running a small division within the company. (i dont just push pens). Hopefully with time my wage will reflect this but for know it dosnt

4- I am on the housing list since last week but theres 7 year waiting list.

5- there is nowhere in the country i could move to and run a 2 bed for 1000e a month. plus travel to work and food

Thanks for clarifying that. Point one, you wouldn't if you had to put a roof over her head so you really need to get out of this thinking that your ex is having a great time of it as it does you no favours. If you had your daughter the days your ex has her you would have to have a house. It simply wouldn't be good enough for you to have her living in a room with you in your parents house. That's fine if it's the odd night. So you might have 300e more a month in your pocket but you would be paying for everything your child needs, including accommodation and all the other bills associated with that plus her day to day needs.

That wage is fine but again, there's vast room for improvement and it's great that there's scope for improvement. But again, it's not your exs fault that she is better off than you. You really have to get out of the frame of mind that your ex is being greedy by looking for extra money. Your ex got married and now has a two income household. But your child is your and your exs responsibility and I really think that if you sat and worked out all the costs you'd find that your ex is shouldering a lot of it. The fact that she can afford to is great for your daughter. But rather than being defensive and dismissive when she looks for additional income, you should hear her out. A childs needs and costs will change over the years and it's imo to be expected that maintenance would vary over the years.
Again mediation might be a better idea than court so you can both put your sides forward and see where the other is coming from.


Your circumstances might change over the years. You might meet someone and be able to move out and get your own place, much like your ex has done.

lougholad

she would never go through a mediator.. ive asked her on several occasions..

sure ill keep you all posted work to be done