collars in cover

snipe02

Question this came up in concersation in another thread and im curious to know how many of ye would hunt a dog spaniel in particular in heavy cover while leaving a collar on them now I know pointers setters wear collars with bells etc but they not hitting the real tight stuff like spaniels ,,

It is something I would never do myself and got me wondering do any of ye on here have any thoughts or stories to share on the matter

Vegeta

One of our springers got caught on a ditch once wearing a collar and it was the last time he ever wore it. We were lucky that we saw it happen, if it happened a few yards into the cover, out of sight, then it would probably have ended a lot worse

J.R.

I've a cocker spaniel and would always remove the collar before going hunting. Too risky in my opinion to leave one on....could get caught in anything.

charlie10

big no no in my opinion i know if my dog was wearing one he wouldnt get far through cover without getting caught up. had one on my german and seen him get stuck one day and took it off never use them

moloney

there should be no need for one in real tight cover because its only when the cover is light that they pull ahead a bit that's when u want control not and the real old type springer what u would call a hard bastard u defitenely want one on him a lot depend on the type
of ground u hunt

snipe02

moloney wrote: »

there should be no need for one in real tight cover because its only when the cover is light that they pull ahead a bit that's when u want control not and the real old type springer what u would call a hard bastard u defitenely want one on him a lot depend on the type
of ground u hunt

couldnt make out the end of that moloney any chance ya could explain , thanks

moloney

in other words there should be no need for control on a springer in tight cover because it will slow him down but when ure in ground that he can pull ahead ie sally glens and he is not listening to a pip or two then u give him a tickle to remind him who is boss

snipe02

I get ya thanks the question applies to ordinary collars aswell not just ecollars id imagine most lads like myself would be hunting a variety of cover throughout a day

ace86

I always have a collar on the dog regardless of the ground he hunts the only think i worry about is geting caught in wire, but he never has and he can jump and go under it depending the hole or else I lift it up for him. I know a mates brother recently had an 8 month old dog and came home to find her hanging from the pen, she tried to break out and got caught on the fencing and choked so i know where fellows are coming with collars and things.

snipe02

ace86 wrote: »

I always have a collar on the dog regardless of the ground he hunts the only think i worry about is geting caught in wire, but he never has and he can jump and go under it depending the hole or else I lift it up for him. I know a mates brother recently had an 8 month old dog and came home to find her hanging from the pen, she tried to break out and got caught on the fencing and choked so i know where fellows are coming with collars and things.

why do you always have the collar on

ace86

snipe02 wrote: »

why do you always have the collar on

I always had it on him from a pup and he went hunting with it I left it on him plus if we were coming home along the road and if there was people walking or cars I could just pull the lead out of my pocket put it on him for safety.

Stevegeraghty

I take the collar off him when hunting in case he gets caught,
I use a neoprene vest when on the water but on the way home he likes to hunt the ditches, It really hinders him and I watch him like a hawk, it's only 10 min or so back to the house and I don't push him

tomtucker81

Dog got caught once on a branch that ran under the collar and down his back. He was trying to keep going forward but couldn't figure out the invisible force that was keeping him still!!

Another time he went under a fence and it caught and broke on the barbed wire. He kept going while the collar was left hanging.

now he's collar less when out in fields. It could just happen that he'd get stuck the other side of a ditch or heavy cover and I can't get to him straight away so that's the reason

EPointer=Birdss

ace86 wrote: »

I always have a collar on the dog regardless of the ground he hunts the only think i worry about is geting caught in wire, but he never has and he can jump and go under it depending the hole or else I lift it up for him. I know a mates brother recently had an 8 month old dog and came home to find her hanging from the pen, she tried to break out and got caught on the fencing and choked so i know where fellows are coming with collars and things.

Have seen that once before with a guy i know but the dog was chained in the run. Chain was left long enough that he could just get over the run but not hit the ground. Enough rope to Hang himself if you will!! Real genius stuff!

When I built my runs I turned the green mesh upside down so the spikes are at the bottom. There is nothing for them to catch on now really but I've a strand of electric wire at the top just in case.

As for collars as said earlier primarily for ID purposes if I lose my dog. Has never happened but could on a pup in training or even an older dog. Have also never had them tangled but again could easily happen. Could back fire in either way at any time but I'd rather get em back if I lost em or if they got out of the run some how. I can see the argument for and against.

djflawless

Wouldn't dream of having a collar on while working a dog.as stated in nearly every post, a dog could be strung up very easy. A fella told me a tale awhile back, no way to tell if its truth or fibs, but he was shooting duck on a flood plain and dog got caught in a lump of broken wire hanging from a stake in the water.if it was an evening shoot near dark it could have been a lot worse
So that scared me off them!

snipe49

I do use one with the bell . It's one of those dayglow one with the ring on top the help against getting cought up.It did happen to my springer dog once got cought in a big black torn bush. I gave him a recall and her brought the bush back with him root's and all. tough springer's here in the West..:)

staghunter

always take collar off spaniels when hunting but don't bother taking it off pointers.i have nothing against training collars have used them myself,but only for training purposes on headstrong dogs,if ya need them when hunting a dog ya should have spent longer in training field.But everyone to there own that's only my oppinion

snipe02

Good to see lads a collar on a spaniel is a disaster waiting to happen

EPointer=Birdss

snipe02 wrote: »

Good to see lads a collar on a spaniel is a disaster waiting to happen

Bit OTT there snipe. Stuck maybe. Disaster a rarity. How many dogs have you seen strangled first hand? All I've heard so far is dogs getting stuck or tangled or lads afraid it could happen. We had to cut the hair off a bitches ear at start of the season cause she was tangled in barb wire.

djflawless

I'd imagine there's been some incidents of dogs dying because of problems with collars. Not saying there has/hasn't/won't be. But it is a possibility...

Out of interest, would many of ye lads agree/disagree with the whole "collars with Id tags" law?

I have my 2 micro chipped.I'd consider it more trustworthy than a collar with an I'd tag and would rather the chips instead of tags

snipe02

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

Bit OTT there snipe. Stuck maybe. Disaster a rarity. How many dogs have you seen strangled first hand? All I've heard so far is dogs getting stuck or tangled or lads afraid it could happen. We had to cut the hair off a bitches ear at start of the season cause she was tangled in barb wire.

I've seen 2 incidents first hand the one I mentioned to you in the video thread a lucky escape and a fella around then corner his terrier got hung up on a bike of all things and choked to death . Well if you had to cut the bitches hair imagine what a collar would be like so you still think its a good idea

Vegeta

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

Bit OTT there snipe. Stuck maybe. Disaster a rarity. How many dogs have you seen strangled first hand? All I've heard so far is dogs getting stuck or tangled or lads afraid it could happen. We had to cut the hair off a bitches ear at start of the season cause she was tangled in barb wire.

I should probably have been more specific in my post but our springer was being strangled and would likely have died if we had not run to his aid, lifted him and cut him free.

snipe02

djflawless wrote: »

I'd imagine there's been some incidents of dogs dying because of problems with collars. Not saying there has/hasn't/won't be. But it is a possibility...

Out of interest, would many of ye lads agree/disagree with the whole "collars with Id tags" law?

I have my 2 micro chipped.I'd consider it more trustworthy than a collar with an I'd tag and would rather the chips instead of tags

never even knew there was such a law michro chipping is the wag to go but how would it be implemented for every pet dog etc chipped would be costly and difficult there would be no dumping dogs then if it could be traced right back to ya

EPointer=Birdss

Not saying it is a good or bad idea & not disputing the possibilities.
Just saying I feel the posts here are alarmist & based on potential risk.
The bitch caught by the ear would still be there but the point is she was with us & freed by us. Same as the collar stories. I hunt bogs a lot & dogs often get stuck in cracks in the turf or bog holes. Same concept. Had a dog wrapped up in wire before. Same result.
My own feel is that they are out with you not on their own. For the odd time they get caught they are freed. The odds of it leading to more than a few seconds disturbance is remote & likely less than any other sort of incident or injury.
For me the risk of losing them & improving the odds of getting em back are better odds I would rather play with.

Fox dogs bushing a big wood I can see more of argument if they get out of sight but all personal choice...

charlie10

knew of a lad that had a collar on a lab and cast him to a blind retrieve into a wood ,couple of mins passed and no return ,when he went in the dog was dead this was a matter of mins. also brazzills springer got tangled in a quarry by the back legs one evening and her head was going under ,she freed herself luckily but if that bitch had got caught by a collar on her she would of drowned or remained there until sufficent help arrived which would of been a nightmare. just on a side note lads if a dog gets into trouble in water and u cant swim or not a very good swimmer please remember the family at home DO NOT TRY AND SAVE IF YOU YOURSELF MIGHT BE IN DANGER!.

snipe02

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

Not saying it is a good or bad idea & not disputing the possibilities.
Just saying I feel the posts here are alarmist & based on potential risk.
The bitch caught by the ear would still be there but the point is she was with us & freed by us. Same as the collar stories. I hunt bogs a lot & dogs often get stuck in cracks in the turf or bog holes. Same concept. Had a dog wrapped up in wire before. Same result.
My own feel is that they are out with you not on their own. For the odd time they get caught they are freed. The odds of it leading to more than a few seconds disturbance is remote & likely less than any other sort of incident or injury.
For me the risk of losing them & improving the odds of getting em back are better odds I would rather play with.

Fox dogs bushing a big wood I can see more of argument if they get out of sight but all personal choice...

You just contradicted your initial argument that you like the dogs to get away from you in cover and young dogs get lost then you say they are always with u and the chance of collar getting is no more risk than any other risk so is the dog less or more likely to get snagged with a collar given the evidence presented in this thread

Vegeta

In fairness snipe02, Epointer=Birdss has accepted that there is a risk but that risk is at a level he is comfortable with. That's fair enough in my eyes.

snipe02

Vegeta wrote: »

In fairness snipe02, Epointer=Birdss has accepted that there is a risk but that risk is at a level he is comfortable with. That's fair enough in my eyes.

Ya thats fair enough but he also said the risk was speculative when other posters have given examples im just enjoying arguing my point please dont take offence epointer and as it happens I feel very strongly on the matter

snipe49

I'll end my chat on this with this.In all the year's ive been out with dog's they have got stuck in bog holes and needed my help to get them out' got cought by the leg in wire and needed my help to get out. Got losts and needed my help to find there way back. got stuck in ice and needed my help to get them out.But never have i had i to free a dog cought by the collar' and if they do i'll be there to help. So for those of you that don't like there use.Don't use them..

EPointer=Birdss

charlie10 wrote: »

knew of a lad that had a collar on a lab and cast him to a blind retrieve into a wood ,couple of mins passed and no return ,when he went in the dog was dead this was a matter of mins. also brazzills springer got tangled in a quarry by the back legs one evening and her head was going under ,she freed herself luckily but if that bitch had got caught by a collar on her she would of drowned or remained there until sufficent help arrived which would of been a nightmare.

The lab - Could of easily been any of the examples already mentioned once the dog went on the blind - wire, hair tangles, bog holes etc the collar is just another example.
Brazzils bitch - a another 'if'. If she got tangled anywhere it was a good night situation. Thankfully a lucky escape.

snipe02 wrote: »

You just contradicted your initial argument that you like the dogs to get away from you in cover and young dogs get lost then you say they are always with u and the chance of collar getting is no more risk than any other risk so is the dog less or more likely to get snagged with a collar given the evidence presented in this thread

My intial answer to your directed question which sparked this whole thing was 3 fold & one of which was that I have a young bitch that needs to be brought on. Part of doing so is to let her go further than I would generally like when in plantations etc. This is to encourage her drive in a specific situation & not for a minute something I like or any of my other dogs do routinely. Where did I say that I like dogs to get away from me?

Vegeta wrote: »

In fairness snipe02, Epointer=Birdss has accepted that there is a risk but that risk is at a level he is comfortable with. That's fair enough in my eyes.

Sense

snipe02 wrote: »

Ya thats fair enough but he also said the risk was speculative when other posters have given examples im just enjoying arguing my point please dont take offence epointer and as it happens I feel very strongly on the matter

It is speculative in my own experience & opinion when you look at it from an odds perspective. 1 or 2 genuine examples across a random sample of men who have numerous dogs & spent hours in the field to the tune of 1000's if not 100,000's cumalitively. If you worked out a statisitcal confidence statement the probability of it happening & resulting in serious harm relative to any other hazard in the field or otherwise is negligible. Not impossible for a minute but as said to my mind a risk I am willing to take. To me factoring the odds, removing a collar which I put on for a reason is comparible to stopping hunting bogs in case the dog falls into a bog hole & drowns which has a higher risk of happening in my opinion & own experiences.

As for offence - Snipe my old chum we disagree on just about everything from Electric collars to Videos to Photos to now a new high, normal collars not to mention a host of other stuff I've likely forgotten. If if I were to take offence from what you say in a disagreement, both of us would either have been banned or closed our accounts by now.

snipe49 wrote: »

I'll end my chat on this with this.In all the year's ive been out with dog's they have got stuck in bog holes and needed my help to get them out' got cought by the leg in wire and needed my help to get out. Got losts and needed my help to find there way back. got stuck in ice and needed my help to get them out.But never have i had i to free a dog cought by the collar' and if they do i'll be there to help. So for those of you that don't like there use.Don't use them..

To the good Snipe . Couldn't agree more!

snipe49

Thank u.for that.

snipe02

Hahahaha is there no lenght you wont go to , to not be wrong , the fact is lads ye are in the minority its pretty stupid in my eyes and a lot of others im sure to be hunting spaniels in heavy cover with a collar on its pretty needless bht yet epointer you somehow make it necessary for you to do this with all your spaniels because they might get lost but at the same time they are always with you except for this bitch whom you are letting further out for training purposes I can see youe sense for this young bitch but not that this is common and regular practice with you ,, yourself and the good snipe have both stated the years of experience ye have but to me it looks like neither of ye have a clue or your spaniel is not hitting the real heavy stuff because if they were they wouldnt be wearing collars around their necks

EPointer=Birdss

snipe02 wrote: »

Hahahaha is there no lenght you wont go to , to not be wrong , the fact is lads ye are in the minority its pretty stupid in my eyes and a lot of others im sure to be hunting spaniels in heavy cover with a collar on its pretty needless bht yet epointer you somehow make it necessary for you to do this with all your spaniels because they might get lost but at the same time they are always with you except for this bitch whom you are letting further out for training purposes I can see youe sense for this young bitch but not that this is common and regular practice with you ,, yourself and the good snipe have both stated the years of experience ye have but to me it looks like neither of ye have a clue or your spaniel is not hitting the real heavy stuff because if they were they wouldnt be wearing collars around their necks

It didn't take long for you to lower yourself as usual. Good man.
But you are right I don't have a clue. I make it up as I go along. :rolleyes:

snipe02

Lookin like it ,, the bog holes etc are an unavoidable risk when rough shooting its a fact of the life of a dog and its handler why add to the risks by using a collar just doesnt make sense plus ive always been thought by the experienced dog men never to have a collar on a working spaniel and impretty sure its been written in the literature also

EPointer=Birdss

snipe02 wrote: »

Lookin like it ,, the bog holes etc are an unavoidable risk when rough shooting its a fact of the life of a dog and its handler why add to the risks by using a collar just doesnt make sense plus ive always been thought by the experienced dog men never to have a collar on a working spaniel and impretty sure its been written in the literature also

I'm done arguing with ya buddy. I'm not going to comment on the written into literature piece. I wish you & your dogs the best in the field.

snipe02

EPointer=Birdss wrote: »

I'm done arguing with ya buddy. I'm not going to comment on the written into literature piece. I wish you & your dogs the best in the field.

Thanks and best of luck to you and yours epointer

charlie10

ladies come on now look every one has there views and opinions ,i saw a springer in the field one day belong to a lad with a muzzle on NO LIE! think brazzil has the pic ! he might post it! i think the problem with ye two lads is that e-pointer has the modern method in the form of e collars and cameras and the likes and snipe02 your old school and your methods are old school saying that if ye could share methods i.e snipe02 with the headcam, i think lads on here would be gobsmacked at the level of training your dogs have without the use of a e collar which just shows that it can be done but u are very experienced with dogs in general and have the way with them. saying that i think the e collar was purchased by e -pointer because of a stubborn pointer which i can tell u first hand is no joke !!! lads think that e collars skip the basic training and jump steps which is not the case ,alot of time goes into properly conditioning them to the collar and also training the command still has to be done before putting collar on.

Brazzill

charlie10 wrote: »

knew of a lad that had a collar on a lab and cast him to a blind retrieve into a wood ,couple of mins passed and no return ,when he went in the dog was dead this was a matter of mins. also brazzills springer got tangled in a quarry by the back legs one evening and her head was going under ,she freed herself luckily but if that bitch had got caught by a collar on her she would of drowned or remained there until sufficent help arrived which would of been a nightmare. just on a side note lads if a dog gets into trouble in water and u cant swim or not a very good swimmer please remember the family at home DO NOT TRY AND SAVE IF YOU YOURSELF MIGHT BE IN DANGER!.

Ha Ha

snipe49

Now now mr Epionter as i have said i only use the e collar on a head strong dog. And the bell in wood's.And i do know my spaniel's and would never do anything to put them danger. But u do seem very hung up on this collar. pardon the pun. Or is it just a chance to have a snipe.:) pun again; at Mr bad Snipe.. :rolleyes:

snipe49

Yes your right never put a collar on a dog when duck shooting.

Brazzill

snipe49 wrote: »

Yes your right never put a collar on a dog when duck shooting.

Surely this would apply doing any type of shooting then.... Shot countless birds(pheasants, woodcock etc....)that have landed in flooded rivers, ponds etc....Can't pick where a shot bird lands!

charlie10

snipe49 wrote: »

Yes your right never put a collar on a dog when duck shooting.

ha

snipe49

No i never shoot if they fly over water. They don't look nice wet. :cool:

Brazzill

snipe49 wrote: »

No i never shoot if they fly over water. They don't look nice wet. :cool:

So your a polisher???? Won't shoot in the rain????

snipe49

very Good. :pac: no not at all was out sunday morning in that storm. I like my dog's am tough..

Brazzill

charlie10 wrote: »

ladies come on now look every one has there views and opinions ,i saw a springer in the field one day belong to a lad with a muzzle on NO LIE! think brazzil has the pic ! he might post it! i think the problem with ye two lads is that e-pointer has the modern method in the form of e collars and cameras and the likes and snipe02 your old school and your methods are old school saying that if ye could share methods i.e snipe02 with the headcam, i think lads on here would be gobsmacked at the level of training your dogs have without the use of a e collar which just shows that it can be done but u are very experienced with dogs in general and have the way with them. saying that i think the e collar was purchased by e -pointer because of a stubborn pointer which i can tell u first hand is no joke !!! lads think that e collars skip the basic training and jump steps which is not the case ,alot of time goes into properly conditioning them to the collar and also training the command still has to be done before putting collar on.

Had a look and can't find the picture!

Brazzill

snipe49 wrote: »

very Good. :pac: no not at all was out sunday morning in that storm. I like my dog's am tough..

A ha good man.... Was out myself with Charlie10, in bed since.

snipe49

Not with Charlie10 i hope.;) Get well soon pal.:)

charlie10

anyway back to the collar

Glenbulldog

snipe02 wrote: »

Hahahaha is there no lenght you wont go to , to not be wrong , the fact is lads ye are in the minority its pretty stupid in my eyes and a lot of others im sure to be hunting spaniels in heavy cover with a collar on its pretty needless bht yet epointer you somehow make it necessary for you to do this with all your spaniels because they might get lost but at the same time they are always with you except for this bitch whom you are letting further out for training purposes I can see youe sense for this young bitch but not that this is common and regular practice with you ,, yourself and the good snipe have both stated the years of experience ye have but to me it looks like neither of ye have a clue or your spaniel is not hitting the real heavy stuff because if they were they wouldnt be wearing collars around their necks

Why does it bother you so much if his dog wears a collar or not? If the man is comfortable with the dog wearing it so be it, to say a man has'nt a clue cause he doesn't do things the way you w.t.f? , old methods work for you and well done on that,modern methods work for him well done to him on that every man to his own and all that

snipe02

Just read a similar thread on another forum and similar consensus no collars while working no mention of deaths losses but some near misses and lucky escapes but most say no collar while at work especially for spaniels