Murder rates and house prices (split from Depressing Dublin House prices)

Victor

These posts have been moved from the Depressing Dublin House prices thread.

That any post has been moved here doesn't necessarily reflect on any one poster.

Moderator

Ush1

If you can afford somewhere decent where you want to live, I would just go for it.

I also don't get why people are still convinced Tallaght is like Beirut. It's a rather large suburb and has nice spots and not so nice.

The Spider

alastair wrote: »

What bugs me is the rather arbitrary nature of what seems to constitutes 'SCD'. Seemingly the 'traditional' understanding of 'SCD' only includes the fancier addresses. This 'SCD' that excludes Ballinteer, Ballybrack, Shankill, and anywhere with a sniff of council housing is only the product of some selective snobbery.

Shankill is SCD so is Ballybrack any areas without a postcode is traditionally SCD, so Sandymount isn't, and either is Donnybrook.

The Spider

Ush1 wrote: »

If you can afford somewhere decent where you want to live, I would just go for it.

I also don't get why people are still convinced Tallaght is like Beirut. It's a rather large suburb and has nice spots and not so nice.

Because of things like the below:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/man-dies-after-new-year-s-night-assault-in-tallaght-1.1642186

jon1981

The Spider wrote: »

Because of things like the below:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/man-dies-after-new-year-s-night-assault-in-tallaght-1.1642186

if we wanna go there...

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/court-hears-how-student-was-killed-outside-nightclub-129387.html

"Brian Murphy was savagely attacked after an altercation occurred outside Club Annabell’s nightclub in the Burlington Hotel"

there is crime everywhere, Tallaght is huge and has massive extremes...but believe it or not there are nice parts.

The Spider

jon1981 wrote: »

if we wanna go there...

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/court-hears-how-student-was-killed-outside-nightclub-129387.html

"Brian Murphy was savagely attacked after an altercation occurred outside Club Annabell’s nightclub in the Burlington Hotel"

there is crime everywhere, Tallaght is huge and has massive extremes...but believe it or not there are nice parts.

Yeah in 2004 lets take a look at tallaght in 2013

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/murder-accused-denies-returning-to-tallaght-crime-scene-571834.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0731/465672-melanie-mccarthy-mcnamara/

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0520/451344-murdered-man-linked-to-firearm-seizure/

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/man-fatally-shot-in-tallaght-suspected-of-two-other-shootings-1.1468967

and thats just a few from this year, if the only one you could find was the fight outside Annabels 10 years ago, that's exactly the difference between Tallaght and SCD.

Ush1

The Spider wrote: »

Because of things like the below:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/man-dies-after-new-year-s-night-assault-in-tallaght-1.1642186

So nobody has ever been violently assaulted by people from "nicer" areas?

To be fair that's not exactly the norm hence it made national news.

The Spider

Ush1 wrote: »

So nobody has ever been violently assaulted by people from "nicer" areas?

To be fair that's not exactly the norm hence it made national news.

See links above or do a search for crime deaths tallaght 2013, plenty of em.

Do a search for crime deaths Cabinteely 2013 and compare and contrast.

drumswan

The Spider wrote: »

See links above or do a search for crime deaths tallaght 2013, plenty of em.

Do a search for crime deaths Cabinteely 2013 and compare and contrast.

Tallaght is bigger than Cabinteely. There are whole, perfectly nice areas of Tallaght which are bigger than Cabinteely.

You might as well compare Cabinteely with LA, its a ridiculous comparison.

Ush1

The Spider wrote: »

Yeah in 2004 lets take a look at tallaght in 2013

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/murder-accused-denies-returning-to-tallaght-crime-scene-571834.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0731/465672-melanie-mccarthy-mcnamara/

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0520/451344-murdered-man-linked-to-firearm-seizure/

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/man-fatally-shot-in-tallaght-suspected-of-two-other-shootings-1.1468967

and thats just a few from this year, if the only one you could find was the fight outside Annabels 10 years ago, that's exactly the difference between Tallaght and SCD.

One is actually a case from 2012.

Melanie McCarthy-McNamara was shot dead as she sat in a car in Tallaght on 8 February, 2012.

As I said, you're not comparing like with like.

Tallaght is far larger than any other suburb. If you look at those cases and where they might have taken place they would all be around certain areas of Tallaght.

Ush1

The Spider wrote: »

See links above or do a search for crime deaths tallaght 2013, plenty of em.

Do a search for crime deaths Cabinteely 2013 and compare and contrast.

Cabinteely

Population (2006)[1] • Urban12,698

Tallaght

Population (2011) • Urban71,467

Theboinkmaster

Ush1 wrote: »

Cabinteely

Population (2006)[1] • Urban12,698

Tallaght

Population (2011) • Urban71,467

Nobody cares :rolleyes:

The_Conductor

Ush1 wrote: »

If you can afford somewhere decent where you want to live, I would just go for it.

I also don't get why people are still convinced Tallaght is like Beirut. It's a rather large suburb and has nice spots and not so nice.

I'm not trying to be funny- but you are aware that Beirut is considered to be very exclusive and prestigious, and is rated by the international business community as the most expensive city in the Middle East (having recently dethroned Abu Dhabi). Source Tallaght, on the other hand, while it does have the Square and some interesting businesses and enterprises in the area- is not exactly on parr with Beirut.

Yes- Tallaght has the odd murder (normally drugs or gangland related) and Beirut has the odd attrocity (normally Hezbollah car bombs)- probably on roughly the same frequency as one another, but as areas, affluence, money, pretigiousness etc go- Beirut is up there with the best of cities. Akin to Tallaght- it has its bad areas (e.g. keep the hell away from the South Beirut area of Haret Hreik)- much the same as Tallaght has its infamous areas (thankfully car bombs don't tend to feature).

Ush1

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'm not trying to be funny- but you are aware that Beirut is considered to be very exclusive and prestigious, and is rated by the international business community as the most expensive city in the Middle East (having recently dethroned Abu Dhabi). Source Tallaght, on the other hand, while it does have the Square and some interesting businesses and enterprises in the area- is not exactly on parr with Beirut.

Yes- Tallaght has the odd murder (normally drugs or gangland related) and Beirut has the odd attrocity (normally Hezbollah car bombs)- probably on roughly the same frequency as one another, but as areas, affluence, money, pretigiousness etc go- Beirut is up there with the best of cities. Akin to Tallaght- it has its bad areas (e.g. keep the hell away from the South Beirut area of Haret Hreik)- much the same as Tallaght has its infamous areas (thankfully car bombs don't tend to feature).

Fair enough.

Odd murder vs odd car bomb, I know which I prefer but then again I'm not from Beirut. I'm sure it does have some nice spots.

The Spider

Ush1 wrote: »

Fair enough.

Odd murder vs odd car bomb, I know which I prefer but then again I'm not from Beirut. I'm sure it does have some nice spots.

I'd prefer not to live in an area that had the 'odd murder' full stop.

drumswan

The Spider wrote: »

I'd prefer not to live in an area that had the 'odd murder' full stop.

You live in Dublin, that has the 'odd murder'.

The Spider

drumswan wrote: »

You live in Dublin, that has the 'odd murder'.

I don't actually live south and commute, but by that logic, I live in Ireland that has the 'odd murder'.

drumswan

The Spider wrote: »

I don't actually live south and commute, but by that logic, I live in Ireland that has the 'odd murder'.

Now you are getting it.

Ush1

The Spider wrote: »

I'd prefer not to live in an area that had the 'odd murder' full stop.

So you'd really want to avoid any moderately sized urban area anywhere then.

Tell me, do you every go into Dublin City at all? For work or socialising? Plenty of murder and crime there.

The Spider

drumswan wrote: »

Now you are getting it.

:rolleyes:

Ok so you're saying that it doesn't matter where you live, murders can happen, fine, now where are they most likely to happen, and where are your kids more likely to mix with people who may be involved with shall we say questionable activities as opposed to mixing with people who aren't.

See where this is going and why people will pay a premium to live in an area where this is less likely to happen?

drumswan

The Spider wrote: »

See where this is going and why people will pay a premium to live in an area where this is less likely to happen?

Yes I do, thats why there are huge differences in the prices of areas within places like Tallaght, Dublin and Ireland. Its not that hard to grasp?

Ush1

The Spider wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Ok so you're saying that it doesn't matter where you live, murders can happen, fine, now where are they most likely to happen, and where are your kids more likely to mix with people who may be involved with shall we say questionable activities as opposed to mixing with people who aren't.

See where this is going and why people will pay a premium to live in an area where this is less likely to happen?

Or a premium on the size of house, nearness to amenities , etc etc....

Why you have over 100k in the disparity of the prices of houses in Tallaght.

It's weird, I've lived in Tallaght my whole life and there hasn't been a single murder on any of the streets I've lived on.

alastair

The Spider wrote: »

Shankill is SCD so is Ballybrack any areas without a postcode is traditionally SCD, so Sandymount isn't, and either is Donnybrook.

Well, on that basis, this doesn't really make much sense - does it?:

I'd better clarify, when I say SCD I mean the traditional areas, Mount Merrion, Blackrock, Glenageary Sandymount etc

btw - I was born and raised in a part of the county 'traditionally' without a postcode, and it's got one now. I wonder if it's still regarded as 'SCD'?

The Spider

Ush1 wrote: »

Or a premium on the size of house, nearness to amenities , etc etc....

Why you have over 100k in the disparity of the prices of houses in Tallaght.

It's weird, I've lived in Tallaght my whole life and there hasn't been a single murder on any of the streets I've lived on.

Good god that really isn't an argument, what about the other streets, don't get me wrong I know Tallaght very well, I have a lot of friends from Tallaght and there are areas that are fine, however given the choice I'd never bring kids up there, that simple if it's a choice between Tallaght and a commute, believe me the commute is the better option.

Now I'm not from Tallaght or Dublin for that matter, so I can look at it all with zero attachment to any particular area, and given the choice I and most other people will choose an area where, my kids aren't exposed to crime or exposed to people who are exposed to crime, and having grown up in what would be considered a relatively dodgy enough area outside Dublin, I know how easy it is to fall in with the wrong crowd.

I have friends in Dublin who didn't grow up in these areas and friends from Dublin and home who did, needless to say we all turned out fine, but I'd say the people who grew up in the decent areas have had better opportunities in life, and weren't exposed to some of the stuff I or other friends were purely by virtue of the fact of where they grew up.

The Spider

alastair wrote: »

Well, on that basis, this doesn't really make much sense - does it?:



btw - I was born and raised in a part of the county 'traditionally' without a postcode, and it's got one now. I wonder if it's still regarded as 'SCD'?

Interesting worth looking into, but we all know the areas that are regarded as SCD and the areas South of the liffey that are respectable and not so respectable, I suppose a better definition is anything West regardless of North or South.

drumswan

The Spider wrote: »

and given the choice I and most other people will choose an area where, my kids aren't exposed to crime or exposed to people who are exposed to crime

This is just nonsense. You cannot live in any middle class urban area in the country in that case. Would you listen to yourself.

Theboinkmaster

Lads I've reported your posts in the hope a mod can get this thread back on topic.

If you want to debate which places in Dublin are best to live in start your own thread - this one is about Dublin property prices.

alastair

The Spider wrote: »

Interesting worth looking into, but we all know the areas that are regarded as SCD

Clearly we don't.

The Spider wrote: »

and the areas South of the liffey that are respectable and not so respectable,

Again - not really. I suspect you're mistaking respectability for affluence. I seem to recall a particularly high profile murder related to the most affluent area in the county only this year.

The Spider wrote: »

I suppose a better definition is anything West regardless of North or South.

Assuming you buy into this notion of 'respectable areas'.

gaius c

The Spider wrote: »

See links above or do a search for crime deaths tallaght 2013, plenty of em.

Do a search for crime deaths Cabinteely 2013 and compare and contrast.

You're making the point.
Why don't YOU find the stats to back your own point up?

Your argument is nonsense because it runs foul of the following fallacies:
Argument from ignorance
Appeal to common sense
Argument from repetition
Shifting the burden of proof

alastair

The Spider wrote: »

Oh come on, everyone buys into the notion of respectable areas,

No they don't. There's a noticeable class-bias that some like to wrap up in other guises.

The Spider wrote: »

there may have been a murder but what's the percentage versus some of the other areas, like Tallght Crumlin, etc.

I thought you wouldn't consider the odd murder in your area?

The Spider wrote: »

The reason prices are rising in particular areas of Dublin is because percentage wise buyers percieve them as respectable.

Really? The largest rises in asking prices relate to rental properties, apartments in particular, which tend to be closer to the city centre. Equally, of the three Dublin property 'hotspots' supposedly identified in the last six months, two of them are in that wasteland of respectability, de Nortside.

The Spider

gaius c wrote: »

You're making the point.
Why don't YOU find the stats to back your own point up?

Your argument is nonsense because it runs foul of the following fallacies:
Argument from ignorance
Appeal to common sense
Argument from repetition
Shifting the burden of proof

Hard to find particular stats, but an article based on the cso will suffice.

"GARDAI and the Department of Justice have been urged to allocate more resources to tackling crime in Tallaght after it emerged that the area accounted for the highest number of burglaries recorded in the State last year.

New statistics published by the Central Statistics Office (CSO) show that gardaí recorded 922 burglaries last year in the Tallaght area, which was the highest rate in the country."

http://www.dublinpeople.com/article.php?id=1554

Burglary as opposed to murder, but no one likes to come home and find their house burgled and yes crime happens everywhere, but the stats say it's more likely in Tallaght.

Happy?