Newbe

sthilmick

Hi all
I'm new to the forum and I'm looking at taking up rifle shooting I'm just looking to shoot rabbits and foxes and see hoe I progress maybe in to Dear in the future I do know that you can't touch dear with any less than a 243 just got a few questions and I hope I can get some straight answers there's a lot of here say out there
1 what's the largest calibre rifle you can get first off ?
2 what's the waiting time for a gun licence ?
3 what are the requirements you have to fulfil before you get a licence eg safety courses ect

Witcher

Minimum for deer is actually .220 Swift with 60gr(?) bullet.

No limit on calibre but anything over .308 is restricted, for everyone..not just new shooters.

Maximum waiting time is 3 months.

You'll have to do a safety course and install a safe if you're getting a rifle.

sthilmick

Thanks
So I could get a 243 off the bat that's great . would it be over kill pardon the pun for rabbits and foxes . I'm not looking to turn some poor animal in to vapour but I'm a firm believer in hitting your prey and it dropping on the spot not just wounding it and it running off into the wild and bleeding to death

valerossi

Start with .22lr lad you'll knock rabbits with but I wouldn't shoot a fox with it over 60yards out and i don't suggest you even try that.
A .22 is all you need right now to learn the basics your a long way of using a 243 to anyway close to its ability assuming your a novice that is.

sthilmick

thanks
I'm not a complete novice to be honest just need to brush up I have a good basics was several years in the PDF and was into shooting in my youth just work family kids building houses and stuff took over . All good sound advice is welcome

Cass

Blay wrote: »

Minimum for deer is actually .220 Swift with 60gr(?) bullet.

55gr. Law supercedes NPWS guidelines/wishes. .22, centrefire, 55gr, 1,700ftlb. All minimum requirements and all met by a swift with 55gr.

As for first time rifle. If it's hunting you want rather than target shooting start with a rimfire but consider the .17hmr or .22wmr. Superior to the .22lr in terms of ability, and not as expensive to feed as a centrefire, etc.

Might be a pain in the ass, but best advice is above. Start small, work your way into it, and as you grow in experience and knowledge move up the caliber ladder.

sthilmick

I'll definitely be after foxes and centre fire is the way I'll go.I was looking at a 22 hornet but recent advice was that hornet is on its way out that 223 is the way to go just looking at a 243 too but your right I guess its best to start smallish and work up . What make's do you recommend saw a few Howas for Sale looks like a good value for money no frills solid weapon . I like the look of the composite stocks too guys really talking them up

wirehairmax

.17hmr is the best rimfire calibre out there at the moment. Accurate, consistent, flat-shooting, not expensive to feed. The .22lr has its advantages, cheap and very quiet with a mod and sub-sonic rounds but very limited after 100 yards, (60-80 with subsonics).
A .17hmr is deadly for rabbits and also extremely capable on foxes also within sensible range. I'd highly recommend this calibre as a first rifle.

sthilmick

not being a smart arse but anything under 100yrds is not interesting to me be looking at mid range 2-300 yrds of effective stopping power the home place is pretty open the rabbits would laugh at you if you tried to get within 60-80 yrds of them

One shot on kill

A 223 might not be a bad place to start but if your shooting a lot of rabbits it might be expensive to run. You properly won't eat many rabbits after it either.

It think its fair to say that a 243 is out if you do not have a deer hunting licence. Some lads can get them without them but them story's are few and far between.

Welcome to boards by the way

Remmie 223

I was asking the same questions as yourself about 4 years ago. I was also in the rdf. I bought a 223 . I have since bought a 17. I have not used the 223 five times this year. Ok you can get cheap rounds for the 223. But I could never get any of the cheap stuff to group properly even at 100m. I have fired far more rounds with the 17, head shot rabbits at 120m(no wind). My longest fox was 230m with the 223. In my opinion the wind plays with the 223, too much for the distance you are talking about, 243 is overkill for rabbits & too dear to feed

Cass

sthilmick wrote: »

not being a smart arse but anything under 100yrds is not interesting to me...................................... the rabbits would laugh at you if you tried to get within 60-80 yrds of them

At the risk of sounding like a dick the shooting part of hunting is the end result or last action of a hunt. Stalking is not limited to deer hunting. My longest shots are 200 - 230 yards, and that's only as a last resort. I prefer to stalk up and take as close a shot as possible. I'll let game go before taking "pot shots" at distance simply to test my ability.

With all due respect regardless of your background taking long distance shots on any quarry without a good deal of experience and knowledge is, to me, somewhat reckless. Not getting into the whole morality of the issue, but from a sporting point of view it's the same reason we don't use rifles on hares, etc.

I'm not saying you need to start of with an air rifle, but unless you have a range to practice on or a good deal of experience with centrefire rifles at the distances you are discussing, you really are better off starting with a slightly lower yet not "bottom" caliber.


Just my opinion. Take it or leave it.

EWQuinn

Max effective range for the .17 for consistent clean kills on rabbit and fox sized game you are probably at 150 yds maybe 200, so there are limitations with rimfire. .223 will shoot flat and kill sure out to 300 no problem. You will have to use an accurate rifle, know and be skilled with it and shoot quality ammo. For that the .223 is a cost effective, versitile and pretty accurate option. If you have shooting experience that helps a lot.

As we have discussed in other threads, if you will change your mind and want to go deer hunting with same rifle, better consider the .243

Edit: And in light of Cass' sound advice, I personally had experience with air rifles and .22 prior to service, then in the military with .223 & .308, before becoming a civilian shooter and hunter, and then mentoring by experienced hunters. So he makes a very good point.

rsole1

sthilmick wrote: »

I'll definitely be after foxes and centre fire is the way I'll go.I was looking at a 22 hornet but recent advice was that hornet is on its way out that 223 is the way to go just looking at a 243 too but your right I guess its best to start smallish and work up . What make's do you recommend saw a few Howas for Sale looks like a good value for money no frills solid weapon . I like the look of the composite stocks too guys really talking them up

Just to give you the heads up, we don't say "weapon" on here we say firearm.

cookimonster

sthilmick,

Ask yourself a few questions

What do you want the rife for, pure pest control or do you want to fill the pot?

How often will you use it and at what volumes?

What's your budget for both equipment and sustainability of hunting outings?

These are just some of the question some people neglect to ponder before buying and if you trawl this forum you will see plenty of firearms and equipment for sale due to lack of use for one reason or another.

Personally I would recommend the .17 as a duel purpose rnd over that of the .22 and .223. If you do go on to deer later say with a .243 you could be finding your .223 gathering dust as I find the .243 an excellent foxing rnd. Also have a chat with your local Garda and see what the attitudes are like.

Even though you've had shooting experience before I would advise you (not trying to be a di*k head here) not to confuse military shooting with hunting. What we are trained to do, especially for range practices is so far removed from hunting. As hunters our goal is to close the distance to our prey in order to deliver a humane kill whether it be by stalking in or laying up in an area most likely to hold animals.

In my experience and unless the rabbits are hyper sensitive once you spot your rabbits at distance you can walk onto open ground, get into range, set up a safe shot and in no time at all the rabbits will reappear. This can be repeated again and again in the same field, allowing you slowly but steadily cover large areas of 'open' ground.

Any how welcome to the melting pot.

valerossi

So how mush experience do you have exactly? have you accurately fired a rifle outside a range over rough ground where you have had to calculate distance and make educated judgements on safe back drops.
If you have adequate experience .17 is an excellent choice rifle for someone new to hunting but is competent enough to hit his mark.
Most lads enjoy the stalk aswell as the meat at the end of the day (even if it is a rabbit)
I'm not picking at you now but basic ballistic knowlage would tell you a 243 at a respectful range would vaporise a rabbit and the word weapon gives the wrong impression.

sthilmick

yeah a 243 is over kill I agree just got a little excited and I've decided to go for a 223 I thing its the type of firearm I'm looking for it ticks all the boxes I think decent range with enough stopping power but not over kill . I was wondering if there is much of a difference you pay for a left handed 1 as my left eye is my master eye and what sort of money a good value scope is . I'm looking at howa or cz they seem to be solid makes what you guys think

One shot on kill

Don't know much about Howa but you couldn't go wrong with a cz there a great gun no matter what caliber they are.

valerossi

+1 on cz lad excellent gun. You'll find a second hand scope and gun for good money these days.

Jonty

Tikka would be a good bet too

One shot on kill

Have a tikka myself. And love it. Stock is,a bit hollow to get the weight down but I don't mind there is a nice action on them. Bit more expensive than a cz I think. But I'd say they would shoot the same

sthilmick

what about Marlin XS7 I see them for small money E510 for a synrhetic stock seems a pretty good price for a new rifle but is it good value advice please also a decent sight looking at a bushnell 6-18x50 for E250 for 760 euros all in. cz is E810 as is the remmington 700 and the CZ synthetic is E845

One shot on kill

A few guys here have the marlin and there suppose to be well ae to shoot. Same with the ruger American.

When I was buying I was looking at them and came across a second hand tikka but only a year old for a small bit more money. I couldn't say no.

But the marlin wouldn't be a bad choice if you had your heart set on going new.

cookimonster

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=78412541

Have a read of the above thread, it may give your some insight.

sthilmick

thanks cookimonster
the marlin seems a good deal then at the money. Any thoughts on the scope ?

cookimonster

Now your really down the rabbit hole and opening that can of worms......... this is often a very hotly debated subject.

Do you go for the old adage : 'spend pennies on the rifle and pounds on the scope' or will you opt for some of the more economic models on the market today.

For field use for night and day I would go for 3-9 or 3-12 with a minimum of a 50mm objective. A hunting style reticle or mil dots would be my choice over finer reticles more suited for target shooting. Illuminated reticles and target turrets are down to user preference.

Trawl some of Cass's recent posts about good reasonable priced scopes or look at the recent posts referring to scope selection for a .22 and you will be get a good idea of what's on offer.

sthilmick

thanks will do