Ryanair - New reserved seating structure(s)

embraer170

Allinall wrote: »

So you harassed a guy flying home to his own country.

When that didn't work, you just decided to sit in someone else's seats, and complained when they - rightly - wanted to sit in there allocated seats.

And it's Ryanair's fault?

Sometimes I despair.

I don't think he said that he sat in their seats, rather that someone wanted those seats for themselves.

faceman

MOH wrote: »

This is the whole source of the problem.

People who want to be guaranteed to sit together should pay the extra few euro for that. Instead of which, people have been turning up at the airport for the last few years without having bothered to pay, then expect special treatment because they insist they can't be separated from their child. But wouldn't spend €4 to ensure that.

So then what are the crew supposed to do? Do you split up a group of people who have actually paid to sit together, to accommodate the skinflints?

After years of idiots trying to game the system, Ryanair have finally had enough. By making it clear that you can't expect to be seated together unless you pay, they'll get some whinging in the short term, but save themselves a lot of hassle in the long run once people finally lose their sense of automatic entitlement.

This. Whether or not they changed their policy discreetly or not, the way it is now with random allocation is fair. After all if I have paid extra to sit next to my travelling partners and other punters haven't yet are allocated together then that's unfair on punters who have paid extra in advance.

Random allocation should mean random allocation IMO. Either that or adapt the Southwest seating model.

Fred Swanson

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grogi

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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I don't think anybody here suggested that you should. You pay for the guarantee - and nobody should take it from you.

Spanish Eyes

There may be trouble ahead, but while there's moolah....

Just pay for the seats. It doesn't cost THAT much and you get priority boarding too as a little bonus that only works in certain airports I know that. But still.

Otherwise go with another airline.

I have to say that RYR are making this very complex and it is bound to end up with onboard angst.

Simple solution would be to add say E3 to every ticket and you get what seats you want, and pay more for priority boarding, exit and front rows.

God why does it have to be so complicated.

Someone at RYR obviously said, hey they think we are TOO cuddly now. Rowback, rowback stat.

Spanish Eyes

kyogger wrote: »

my and a mate flew to italy last week got given two different seats on the boarding card. asked an itlaian guy that was sitting next to my friends seat to move twice so that we could sit together and he wouldn't despite the fact he was in a middle seat and seemed to be on his own. in the end we found another 2 seats empty behind my assigned row and then another gang of people came on the plane unexpectedly and a mother spent 5 mins arguing with us trying to claim our two seats so that her children could sit together. it's a joke now with ryanair.

Not RYR , You, your mate and the mad mummy should have PAID for your seats. I am sorry, I have no sympathy. Rules are rules.

embraer170

faceman wrote: »

This. Whether or not they changed their policy discreetly or not, the way it is now with random allocation is fair. After all if I have paid extra to sit next to my travelling partners and other punters haven't yet are allocated together then that's unfair on punters who have paid extra in advance.

So it is better for the majority on the aircraft to be seated "randomly" when the system can actually easily seat the vast majority of passengers together?

In dozens of Ryanair flights in a group of 3/4, I have never been seated apart even booking and checking in at the very last minute. The old algorithm was very effective.

grogi

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Not RYR , You, your mate and the mad mummy should have PAID for your seats. I am sorry, I have no sympathy. Rules are rules.

It is human nature. Rules or not, disputes about seats will happen now much more often.

embraer170 wrote: »

So it is better for the majority on the aircraft to be seated "randomly" when the system can actually easily seat the vast majority of passengers together?

In dozens of Ryanair flights in a group of 3/4, I have never been seated apart even booking and checking in at the very last minute. The old algorithm was very effective.

And extremely simple - allocated the first available group of seats as far to the back as possible. This class of algorithms is called eager algorithms - what an irony...

embraer170

Just pay for the seats. It doesn't cost THAT much and you get priority boarding too as a little bonus that only works in certain airports I know that. But still.

Priority boarding and seats are separate.

faceman

embraer170 wrote: »

So it is better for the majority on the aircraft to be seated "randomly" when the system can actually easily seat the vast majority of passengers together?

In dozens of Ryanair flights in a group of 3/4, I have never been seated apart even booking and checking in at the very last minute. The old algorithm was very effective.

It's their business model though. You pay a base price to get on the plane and everything is a value add. You can't treat anything as a half way house otherwise it's unfair.

Btw I'm not suggesting that I'd rather pay for a seat. However it's either random or it's not. And until a few days ago, it wasn't random.

A Dub in Glasgo

Just booked a return flight for 3 in July Glasgow to Dublin, based on this discussion, I also booked the seats at £2 / €2 each

zac8

embraer170 wrote: »

Priority boarding and seats are separate.

They're not. Paying for seats gets you priority boarding.

embraer170

zac8 wrote: »

They're not. Paying for seats gets you priority boarding.

Only 1ABC and 2DEF (maybe the emergency exits too, 16/17) but not any other rows.

Fred Swanson

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zac8

Fred Swanson wrote: »

No it does not. Priority boarding is then offered as an extra after you select seats.

Maybe it changed recently, but I always pre-book seats and get priority boarding at no extra cost. And I wouldn't always be booking front rows or exit seats.

Edit: last flew with them in April row 20 odd and got priority boarding with pre-paid seat.

Spanish Eyes

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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I dunno, maybe it's changed now, but I recall free priority boarding along with a seat charge. But maybe that doesn't include the "cheap 2 euro seats" or something.

There are (or were) different seat charges depending on where in the aircraft the seats were positioned. Maybe lower seat charges don't include priority, but certainly any seats I have paid for recently did.

Spanish Eyes

Well in all fairness, who would NOT pay €2 for a guaranteed seat next to their loved ones and brats. No hassle, no worries.

Feck sake, I just don't understand the anger about this. But I might be missing something, and I am sure I will be rightly told off sooner or later, and will have to wind in my neck or something.

zac8

Mr.S wrote: »

Only the €2 seats don't come with priority boarding, the other two pricing tiers (rows 1-5 and emergency exits) come with priority boarding included.

Then thats part of the recent change. Makes sense because if more people start paying for seats you can't have the majority of passengers queueing in the priority queue.

Allinall

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Well in all fairness, who would NOT pay €2 for a guaranteed seat next to their loved ones and brats. No hassle, no worries.

Feck sake, I just don't understand the anger about this. But I might be missing something, and I am sure I will be rightly told off sooner or later, and will have to wind in my neck or something.

I'm with you 100%.

People just lose all sense of perspective when it comes to air travel.

Spanish Eyes

Fred Swanson wrote: »

What price were those seats I can't see it. If the €2 ones, well you have a choice to pay or not for priority. All others that are a couple of euro dearer include priority boarding AFAIK.

Edit, I see it is €4 for two passengers. Nuff said.

embraer170

Mr.S wrote: »

Only the €2 seats don't come with priority boarding, the other two pricing tiers (rows 1-5 and emergency exits) come with priority boarding included.

Ryanair has 11 tiers of reserved seat pricing.

Again, the only tiers that come with priority boarding are rows 1ABC, 2DEF, and the 2 emergency exit rows. This is not a recent change.

zac8

embraer170 wrote: »

Ryanair has 11 tiers of reserved seat pricing.

Again, the only tiers that come with priority boarding are rows 1ABC, 2DEF, and the 2 emergency exit rows. This is not a recent change.

Not true. I always pre-book seats with ryanair, several times a year and I don't book those seats you speciify but I always get priority boarding at no extra cost.

.G.

I pre booked seats with Ryanair for the family holiday this year and priority boarding is an optional extra.

mallen

The reason people started flying with Ryanair is because it was cheaper, so cost is a factor. When the market share was captured and the competition receded, the prices increased. I like to know what the fare is upfront with no surprises and the law demands that the advertised fare includes all essentials. That's why a lot of people are against paying for extras. Ryanair have become the experts in creating a market for extras. There is a fake fanfare of a benefit and then after a short while the reality becomes apparent. For example: 'Check on online and get free priority boarding', Reality: Priority boarding becomes a paid for extra. 'No more queuing at the gate when choosing your own seat now there is allocated seating' , Reality: Seats become a paid for extra. 'Bring an extra smaller bag on board', Reality: There is a good chance they will take the bigger bag off you if you haven't paid for priority and been one of the first 90 people on board. This seat allocation change is another cynical attempt to force people to pay for extras.The same strategy has been employed here, get them used to sitting together and then they feel they have to pay to sit together. I have used Ryanair to see a lot of Europe over the last 30 years and I am happy they came along but I am getting very tired of these tactics and the competition is closing in on them.

Sadb

I just don't get the big hubbub, are grown adults really incapable of spending 2/3/4 hours sitting on their own??!! If you can't cope sitting apart then pay for the seats, it really is that simple.

degsie

Sadb wrote: »

I just don't get the big hubbub, are grown adults really incapable of spending 2/3/4 hours sitting on their own??!! If you can't cope sitting apart then pay for the seats, it really is that simple.

Michael?

joeysoap

kyogger wrote: »

my and a mate flew to italy last week got given two different seats on the boarding card. asked an itlaian guy that was sitting next to my friends seat to move twice so that we could sit together and he wouldn't despite the fact he was in a middle seat and seemed to be on his own. in the end we found another 2 seats empty behind my assigned row and then another gang of people came on the plane unexpectedly and a mother spent 5 mins arguing with us trying to claim our two seats so that her children could sit together. it's a joke now with ryanair.

If the doors weren't closed then those passengers didn't come on the plane 'unexpectedly ' and those seats behind YOUR assigned row were not necessarily empty. With the doors closed that's a different story.

Priority seats; first 5 rows plus rows 16 and 17. The €2 seats are only in rows 24/28.

When I was checking for prices a few months ago (unsure of my dates but had ballpark idea) RY were quoting €134 fares. A few weeks after this when I did have my dates the fares were €156. I didn't book and the fares went to €178. Last week the fares on the date I am travelling dropped to €97. And dropped again on Friday to €82. Obviously they were trying it on with the earlier prices but that's still some drop.

Fred Swanson

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joeysoap

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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No, but thanks to this thread discovered it last week, having said that it didn't foresee the further drop in prices on Friday. I checked out the available seats to see ( I know it means diddley squat) and it looks like there's an awful lot of seats left on that date. 3 AL flights that day including a 330, a321 and a 320 =700+ seats and 3 RY x 189 = another 560+.


I guess looking at the fares on offer Aer Lingus have pretty much sold the bulk of theirs.

quadrifoglio verde

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Well in all fairness, who would NOT pay €2 for a guaranteed seat next to their loved ones and brats. No hassle, no worries.

Feck sake, I just don't understand the anger about this. But I might be missing something, and I am sure I will be rightly told off sooner or later, and will have to wind in my neck or something.

The way some people are going on, you'd swear they were being forced to hang onto the wings. :pac:

It's a seat. If you crave sitting beside your travel companions, then pay the few quid. If you're happy to sit where then keep it. It'll buy you a pint

Haithabu

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

The way some people are going on, you'd swear they were being forced to hang onto the wings. :pac:

It's a seat. If you crave sitting beside your travel companions, then pay the few quid. If you're happy to sit where then keep it. It'll buy you a pint

What's not right is that they deliberately cause inconvenience so you pay for not having the inconvenience. Yes, it's a seat but for Ryanair it's no hassle or extra costs to have two people sitting together. The system can easily do that.

Imagine you go into a restaurant with your family and they put you on different tables unless you pay a fiver each. Would you still be happy ?

MOH

Haithabu wrote: »

What's not right is that they deliberately cause inconvenience so you pay for not having the inconvenience. Yes, it's a seat but for Ryanair it's no hassle or extra costs to have two people sitting together. The system can easily do that.

Imagine you go into a restaurant with your family and they put you on different tables unless you pay a fiver each. Would you still be happy ?

If the restaurant had a policy of charging a fee for pre-bookings, and you walked into a restaurant without bothering to book ahead, would you expect them to seat your family at the same table?

It's causing them hassle because people keep not bothering to book seats and chancing it, then turning up and insisting they have to sit beside their child/elderly relative/sick wife and expecting the crew to sort it out.

Haithabu

MOH wrote: »

If the restaurant had a policy of charging a fee for pre-bookings, and you walked into a restaurant without bothering to book ahead, would you expect them to seat your family at the same table?

It's causing them hassle because people keep not bothering to book seats and chancing it, then turning up and insisting they have to sit beside their child/elderly relative/sick wife and expecting the crew to sort it out.

For "pre-booking" Ryanair also charges but that is a different charge. 4 days prior to your travel you can check-in for free. If it's more than that you have to pay for that as well or pay for check-in at the airport.

The seat charge is a different matter. The system randomly assigns two seats away from each other. It used to assign two seats next two each other if you have one booking and check in at the same time. Now it assigns two seats in different rows and then displays a plane with empty sreats next to each other asking you to pay if you want them.

I had this right now. It assigned row 10 and row 31 to us and then displays a plane picture where you have empty seats and can pay for them. After I said "no thanks" it even popped up a message "you are sitting 21 rows from each other, would you like to sit together ?"

As for the restaurant example, they don't charge at all if you make a reservation for 2 or 4 people. And it's unheard of that they would say that if you want to sit at the same table you have to pay an extra fee for everyone - otherwise they deliberately separate you. And that is what Ryanair does now. There are seats next to each other and they deliberately not give them to you. The system is well able to assign two seats besides each other at no extra costs for Ryanair. But they deliberately don't do that now. This inconvenience is caused deliberately in order to have people paying for not having te inconvenience.

What is next ? You might have to be at the airport 5 hours earlier and they lock you in a room with no chairs and no windows. But if you pay 10 Euro extra you can come just for boarding like you do now ? Would you still be happy because you have the option to "pay a few quid".

MOH

Haithabu wrote: »

As for the restaurant example, they don't charge at all if you make a reservation for 2 or 4 people. And it's unheard of that they would say that if you want to sit at the same table you have to pay an extra fee for everyone - otherwise they deliberately separate you. And that is what Ryanair does now. There are seats next to each other and they deliberately not give them to you. The system is well able to assign two seats besides each other at no extra costs for Ryanair. But they deliberately don't do that now. This inconvenience is caused deliberately in order to have people paying for not having te inconvenience.

What is next ? You might have to be at the airport 5 hours earlier and they lock you in a room with no chairs and no windows. But if you pay 10 Euro extra you can come just for boarding like you do now ? Would you still be happy because you have the option to "pay a few quid".

The analogy with a restaurant doesn't work because it's a completely different industry.

Yes, they're increasing their revenue. In a perfectly reasonable way. They always offered guaranteed adjacent seats, at a price. They never guaranteed seats together if you didn't pay for that, but people took it for granted that they'd get them anyway. And if they didn't, a lot of people kicked up blue murder if they didn't get something they felt entitled to which they'd never been promised.

They've now solved that problem my making it perfectly clear that you probably won't get seats together unless you pay for them. Nothing's been taken away, it's not a new charge, it's maximising the revenue out of a charge that has always been there, for something optional.

The alternative, as has been suggested a few times, would be to stick an extra fiver onto every ticket. But then that means the people who actually don't care if they sit together or not end up paying more, to subsidise those who want something extra but aren't prepared to pay for it. The other alternative would be to do that, but offer a discount option for those who don't care about their seating arrangement. But then people wold still be moaning, so that wouldn't help.

They hysteria and hyperbole is quite hilarious. It's exactly the same as when they started charging for hold baggage. People who weren't bothered about checking in a bag were happy enough not to do so, others whinged and moaned and threatened the world would end and the airline would go bust and none of that ever happened.

It's not a restaurant,it's not a charity, it's a bare bones airline where your basic payment entitles you to be on a tin can for a few hours, and nothing more. Everything else is extra. Frankly, the more prices are separated out into extras, the better, because that way you pay for exactly the elements you want, and nothing extra. While those who want extras pay more and help stop the base price rising.

dermiestv

They hysteria and hyperbole is quite hilarious

Seems to me the attempts to defend this company - who clearly changed their business practices to sneak an extra charge on people who didn't have to pay it before, and then deny that they've made any change - are hysterical and hilarious.

Whatever about the debatable rights and wrongs or affordability of the charge, the company behaviour is cynical and dishonest and has been called out as such by media all over Europe.

Fred Swanson

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Collie D

Fred Swanson wrote: »

And people will continue to fly with them, nothing will change.

Personally, I see this as a master stroke on the part of Ryanair.

Until they row back on it due to falling revenues on sales from the drink trolley. People are a lot more likely to buy a round of drinks for themselves and their travel companions if they're actually seated together rather than at opposite ends of the plane. I'd say there's a lot more profit in selling a small can of beer for a fiver than charging for a certain seat.

Haithabu

MOH wrote: »

The analogy with a restaurant doesn't work because it's a completely different industry.

It still works as an example, even if it is a different industry because it is the same scenario. I want to go to the restaurant with someone and I want to go on holidays with someone. But if I am deliberately separated with the intention that I pay to be together it's not right. I am deliberately put into an inconvenience with the intention that I pay to have the inconvenience mended. If it would be cheaper for Ryanair to have couples/friends/families sitting randomly across the plane one could understand this but that is not the case. Ryanair always charged for extras but what is new here is that extra inconvenience is caused and you pay for not having the inconvenience.

MOH wrote: »

Yes, they're increasing their revenue. In a perfectly reasonable way. They always offered guaranteed adjacent seats, at a price. They never guaranteed seats together if you didn't pay for that, but people took it for granted that they'd get them anyway.

Of course I take it for granted that I can sit together with whoever I go on holidays. I don't consider that luxury or add-on or extra. And that I had this before is not down to the Airline going the extra mile in terms of customer service and arranging it for me but because that is something that should be be taken for granted.

MOH wrote: »

They've now solved that problem my making it perfectly clear that you probably won't get seats together unless you pay for them. Nothing's been taken away, it's not a new charge, it's maximising the revenue out of a charge that has always been there, for something optional.

Ryanair has denied it's for maximising revenue. And of course it's taken away because before we had it and now we don't.

MOH wrote: »

But then that means the people who actually don't care if they sit together or not end up paying more, to subsidise those who want something extra but aren't prepared to pay for it.

As said, they denied it. It would be thin ice anyway as regulations say prices must be transparent. That is why they are legally not allowed to post a low fare first and only later - before paying - they add airport tax etc.

MOH wrote: »

They hysteria and hyperbole is quite hilarious. It's exactly the same as when they started charging for hold baggage.

That analogy won't work. For handling hold luggage Ryanair actually has more expenses. For assigning two seats next to each other Ryanair has no extra expenses.

MOH wrote: »

It's not a restaurant,it's not a charity, it's a bare bones airline where your basic payment entitles you to be on a tin can for a few hours, and nothing more. Everything else is extra. Frankly, the more prices are separated out into extras, the better, because that way you pay for exactly the elements you want, and nothing extra. While those who want extras pay more and help stop the base price rising.

Imagine additionally to the priority and non-priority Qs they next introduce a third queue. One where you have to walk two kilometers outside on the tarmac and then two kilometers back to end up exactly where you were before. And then they say for an extra 10 EUR you can skip that Q. Would you still be okay with that ?

Fred Swanson

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Haithabu

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Someone had a new idea of sqeezeing out more money out of passengers without having to include it into the initial price tag offered on the website. They probably calculated extra revenue here vs less revenue from food/drinks. They will also have more hassle by people trying to swap seats before takeoff and that will be in their calculation.

There is also a certain degree of causing an outrage with the intention to get media attention.

If under the line that is a winner I don't know. I personally don't see this to last but Ryanair will have calculated this.

We'll see how it goes. I'd say it will be crapped at some stage. There might be an emergency landing and someone gets hurt in an evacuation because the partner was at a different door. There might be a flght delay because people wasted an hour tpo swap seats and Ryanair has to pay compensatiohn. Imagine a child sitting separated from their parents will claim after a flight that it was touched by the men sitting left and right to him. Ryanair might actually get into trouble for that. We'll see if that is a masterstroke then.

Nutser

I booked flights last week with Ryanair, for two adults and one child. What I found particularly annoying was that I was required to pay for seats for at least one adult and one child even though there were no seats available that would allow us to sit together.

km79

Nutser wrote: »

I booked flights last week with Ryanair, for two adults and one child. What I found particularly annoying was that I was required to pay for seats for at least one adult and one child even though there were no seats available that would allow us to sit together.

Now that is mental

embraer170

Nutser wrote: »

I booked flights last week with Ryanair, for two adults and one child. What I found particularly annoying was that I was required to pay for seats for at least one adult and one child even though there were no seats available that would allow us to sit together.

Yes, with the new algorithm that can easily happen if you do a very late booking (2-3 days before departure).

joeysoap

From posts on this thread and the Ryanair thread it appears (to me anyway) that a lot of passengers who pay for seats when booking are choosing A and C or D and F seats in the hope/belief that the plane won't sell out and they have the middle seat to themselves. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many passengers complaining about getting middle seats.

Haithabu

joeysoap wrote: »

From posts on this thread and the Ryanair thread it appears (to me anyway) that a lot of passengers who pay for seats when booking are choosing A and C or D and F seats in the hope/belief that the plane won't sell out and they have the middle seat to themselves. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many passengers complaining about getting middle seats.

Middle seats are generally less popular, also by those travelling alone so yes - maybe there are more middle seats to be randomly allocated after the purchased seats are deducted.

In my example however both my partner and I have been allocated aisle seats (rows 10 and 31). There is a middle seat left besides my partner so if the system would have tried to get rid of a middle seat or a gap it could have easily fitted me into that seat. But changing to that middle seat would cost me 9 EUR. Alternatively moving two rows behind her is 7 EUR or 5 rows behind her is 5 EUR. So the closer I want to sit to her the more expensive it is. As said, the system even told me, and I quote the text : "You're sitting 21 row(s) apart. Would you prefer to sit together?"

From reading the threads here as well as the comments on Irish Times it seems that couples who are travelling are often split in a way that one has to board at the front steps and the other at the back steps.

Next flight I book I might book the tickets separately and we check in separately because that seems to have a higher chance of sitting close to each other.

degsie

Thank your luck stars you are allowed to sit at all!

GaGa21

Checked in last night for flight to London on Thursday and I was given 2 middle seats row 6 and 9. Went online to check seats available and both window seats in 6 and 9 are free!
And Ryanair claim they are not doing this deliberately??
It used to pay to check in early for seats together but now I think I'll wait last minute to at least get a window seat!

runawaybishop

GaGa21 wrote: »

Checked in last night for flight to London on Thursday and I was given 2 middle seats row 6 and 9. Went online to check seats available and both window seats in 6 and 9 are free!
And Ryanair claim they are not doing this deliberately??
It used to pay to check in early for seats together but now I think I'll wait last minute yo at least get a window seat!

They are probably allocating middle seats to people that check in early so the aisle and window seats are available to those who pay. Checking in later may give you a window or aisle seat but you'll still not be together.

GaGa21

runawaybishop wrote:

They are probably allocating middle seats to people that check in early so the aisle and window seats are available to those who pay. Checking in later may give you a window or aisle seat but you'll still not be together.

Don't mind that on a short flight to London, would probably pay for a seat on longer flight tho.

joeysoap

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2017/04/11/ryanair-passenger-charged-15-euro-for-being-dragged-off-plane/