Formula 1 2014: General Discussion Thread

mickdw

OSI wrote: »

Have to agree. Felipe has really fallen in my estimations this season. He was always a bit of whinger, but he seemed like a good guy and a decent racer. But I don't think he's coping well with being seriously outshone but his much younger team mate and is looking for too often to shift the blame elsewhere. His constant need to be the shining beacon of reason and safety is irritating to. A couple of driver have mentioned in recent times about various things that need to change, but Felipe jumps in with 2 feet in front of the camera shouting "I was screaming down the radio that it was unsafe"

Thats abit unfair.
If you took part in an event and told them you were not happy with the conditions and then someone ended up getting killed, you would be in a bit of a state and likely to say you told them it was not safe.
Massa has been unlucky but he is being beaten fair and square by Bottas. Still there is no reason why he couldn't have some great results in that car.

flazio

Could someone explain this to me please, On Saturday Hamilton got around the track in 1:38.388 during Q2. On Sunday the fastest anyone managed was a 1:40.896 by Bottas. Bottas's time is the one that is getting recorded as the new lap record. Why is that? Surely the lap record is the record of who got round the track in the shortest time?

Zcott

flazio wrote: »

Could someone explain this to me please, On Saturday Hamilton got around the track in 1:38.388 during Q2. On Sunday the fastest anyone managed was a 1:40.896 by Bottas. Bottas's time is the one that is getting recorded as the new lap record. Why is that? Surely the lap record is the record of who got round the track in the shortest time?

Lap records are only recorded during races.

GarIT

mickdw wrote: »

Thats abit unfair.
If you took part in an event and told them you were not happy with the conditions and then someone ended up getting killed, you would be in a bit of a state and likely to say you told them it was not safe.
Massa has been unlucky but he is being beaten fair and square by Bottas. Still there is no reason why he couldn't have some great results in that car.

He said that he had repeatedly asked for the race to be stopped, when the radio messages were listened to it turned out that he never said anything like the race should be stopped just that visibility was poor, he never said that it wasn't safe but in several interviews said he was screaming on the radio for the race to be stopped.

If he knows he didn't say those things he was just saying it for attention. If he actually believes he said what he claims to it could be PTSD from his accident.

Charlie-Bravo

GarIT wrote: »

... it could be PTSD from his accident.

That's stretching it a bit, but hey, I'm not psychologist. What we do know is that he was proven wrong and he has fallen in my estimations of him - which is a little disappointing because I used to feel sorry for him playing second fiddle to Schumacher and the rest for the best part of 8 seasons.

flazio

Zcott wrote: »

Lap records are only recorded during races.

Bit unfair that the actual fastest lap around the track gets completely forgotton IMO.

PopePalpatine

I don't think Massa's "out of date", he's just been incredibly unlucky this year.

Gillespy

It's out of the frying and into the fire for Massa. Bottas is doing what Alonso did to him. Points table and podium count aren't a pretty sight for Massa. It's true he has had horrible misfortune though, Melbourne, Canada and Silverstone weren't his fault. Yesterday's strategy was a disaster. Second fastest car should have followed Rosberg through the field just as easily if they made the right tyre call.

Myrddin

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I don't think Massa's "out of date", he's just been incredibly unlucky this year.

No doubting that, he's been very unlucky. However, I think he should have done a lot better there on Sunday than he did, especially given the car he's in.

_rebelkid

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Massa has had some of the worse luck I have seen in years.

Specially if "bad luck" starts with T and ends in imo Glock...

Myrddin

_rebelkid wrote: »

Specially if "bad luck" starts with T and ends in imo Glock...

When I think of Massa losing the 08 title, I always think of the fuel filler pipe disaster

Jordan 199

Myrddin wrote: »

When I think of Massa losing the 08 title, I always think of the fuel filler pipe disaster

That and his engine blowing in Hungary.

Felipe did a super job in 2008 and he put in a superb drive in wet conditions at his home race of that year. He didn't put a foot wrong in that race.

_rebelkid

Myrddin wrote: »

When I think of Massa losing the 08 title, I always think of the fuel filler pipe disaster

Jordan 191 wrote: »

That and his engine blowing in Hungary.

Felipe did a super job in 2008 and he put in a superb drive in wet conditions at his home race of that year. He didn't put a foot wrong in that race.

He was the sporting champion that year. Hamilton won by a fluke...

Myrddin

_rebelkid wrote: »

Hamilton won by a fluke...

Yes it was sheer luck, but as I said elsewhere, he wouldn't have needed good luck if he didn't get the bad luck of his gearbox throwing a strop half way through the race. I don't think it's possible to become a world champion by fluke, you might get good & bad fortune that decides it, but in the end, the winner will have done enough over the course of a season anyway.

mickdw

Myrddin wrote: »

When I think of Massa losing the 08 title, I always think of the fuel filler pipe disaster

And massa interviewed recently blamed that for losing him his title. I didn't realise that it was the same race as the flav cheating incident.
Massa said it lead to quite an awkward situation given his current engineering chief but that all is good now.

mickdw

GarIT wrote: »

He said that he had repeatedly asked for the race to be stopped, when the radio messages were listened to it turned out that he never said anything like the race should be stopped just that visibility was poor, he never said that it wasn't safe but in several interviews said he was screaming on the radio for the race to be stopped.

If he knows he didn't say those things he was just saying it for attention. If he actually believes he said what he claims to it could be PTSD from his accident.

Something strange here.
I heard massas radio be broadcast during the Japanese gp and did quite clearly come over the radio saying that the conditions were bad. From my recollection of what he said, at that time, it was one of those messages that clearly said he did not feel safe or want to be out on track.
I don't remember the actual wording but must check to see if I still have the race recording.
Even if it was just a comment re visibility, I remember listening to it live and it came across more in line with what massa said afterwards. Indeed I listened to massa interviewed after Japan and when he said he was screaming for the race to be stopped, to me, that was consistent with what I had heard only minutes before from him.
I think he is being given a raw deal. Perhaps his actual words now on paper don't convey that he felt it should be stopped but at the time, I feel he certainly did.

Infoanon

GarIT wrote: »

He lied about what he had said over the radio. I have no problem with what he said, he didn't say too much or too little but what he did do was claim to have said a lot more than he actually did. He claimed to have repeatedly screamed over the radio for the race to be red flagged. Charlie has confirmed that he once said (and didn't scream) that visibility was poor..

Think you are making a lot of assumptions and imho making questionable allegations about Felipe.

Unfortunately in F1 the horrible accident that has befallen Jules has become a political football and Charlie is under considerable pressure and thus has to be very succinct / political in his replies.Felipe probably did say once that visibility was poor, but may have said "its too dark stop the race " 100 times.

Cookie_Monster

If Massa was so concerned about the conditions why didn't he simply pull in and let everyone else get on with it? It's his call to continue at the end of the day and if he's not comfortable but others are I see no reason to be whinging about it to race control.

Cookie_Monster

Mercedes have revealed they boosted spending on Formula One by 17 per cent to a record 325m pounds NZ$663m last year which won them the constructors' championship at the weekend and has put Lewis Hamilton on track to win the drivers' title.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11342224

not cheap... so much for any kind of spending limit.

bbability

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

If Massa was so concerned about the conditions why didn't he simply pull in and let everyone else get on with it? It's his call to continue at the end of the day and if he's not comfortable but others are I see no reason to be whinging about it to race control.

I can't remember if he had full wets on either. His opinion would count if most of the field had been on full wets.

Brendan Flowers

Re: Massa and the Championship in 2008. People always go on about the "Fernando is faster than you" incident and how they feel bad for Massa as he has so often suffered because of team orders. Yet it was because of team orders that he went into the final race of the 2008 season 7 points rather than 9 points behind Hamilton. Sure he had some bad luck throughout the season. But the help he got always seems to be ignored!

christy c

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

Re: Massa and the Championship in 2008. People always go on about the "Fernando is faster than you" incident and how they feel bad for Massa as he has so often suffered because of team orders. Yet it was because of team orders that he went into the final race of the 2008 season 7 points rather than 9 points behind Hamilton. Sure he had some bad luck throughout the season. But the help he got always seems to be ignored!

I don't think anyone ignored the help he got, it's not mentioned much because any team in Ferraris position would have done the same thing. And anyway, it was just Kimi repaying the favour from a year earlier in Brazil so it works both ways

veganrun

Mercedes are giving everyone on the team a bonus of at least £10,000, including the chef and cleaners.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/lewishamilton/11159596/Mercedes-reward-Brackley-staff-with-7m-bonus-after-winning-Formula-One-constructors-championship.html

Jordan 199

Eric Boullier: Lineup needs to boost morale.

Killinator

OSI wrote: »

No doubt that means turfing out the drivers the team have built a bond with and bringing in one that saw them up for espionage charges and a massive fine. McLaren are starting to piss me off. And I have no time for Boullier.

"We need a mix of experience and eagerness,"

Does he not realise he's got that already?

Andrew76

Killinator wrote: »

"We need a mix of experience and eagerness,"

Does he not realise he's got that already?

Not sure if that was a rhetorical question but Alonso is a far better driver than Button, even if he's more hassle to manage & costs more.

Andrew76

Andrew76 wrote: »

Not sure if that was a rhetorical question but Alonso is a far better driver than Button, even if he's more hassle to manage & costs more.

Not only that, but I really get the impression from Button that he's happy to cruise along and chip away at whatever points he can get. Alonso clearly wants to push his way to a chance at another WDC.

Killinator

Basil3 wrote: »

Not only that, but I really get the impression from Button that he's happy to cruise along and chip away at whatever points he can get. Alonso clearly wants to push his way to a chance at another WDC.

What exactly can Button do but chip away, the car is nowhere near good enough for a WDC and in the last couple of races when the car looked decent he put it as high as could be expected.

I openly admit Alonso is the better of the two, but just because Button isn't throwing a sulking fit because he isn't winning or saying how crap the car is doesn't mean he doesn't want to win.

Killinator

Killinator wrote: »

What exactly can Button do but chip away, the car is nowhere near good enough for a WDC and in the last couple of races when the car looked decent he put it as high as could be expected.

I openly admit Alonso is the better of the two, but just because Button isn't throwing a sulking fit because he isn't winning or saying how crap the car is doesn't mean he doesn't want to win.

Of course he wants to win, but does he have the drive to motivate an entire team? Is he the kinda guy that everyone will want to get behind to push for a WDC?

I really don't think so.

Killinator

Basil3 wrote: »

Of course he wants to win, but does he have the drive to motivate an entire team? Is he the kinda guy that everyone will want to get behind to push for a WDC?

I really don't think so.

He might be the guy and he might not,

But, and it's just a thought,

How has Alonso done as regards driving/motivating Ferrari towards a championship?

They're no better off now then when he joined!