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Confiscating Free Travel Passes?

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124

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    #92
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Probably sick of working every day for very low wage and carrying the very people they pay taxes for to have the free life.

    Not saying all are fraudsters but there are a lot and also a lot that are genuine and are struggling.


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    #93
    ballooba
    Registered Users Posts: 6,315 ✭✭✭ballooba


    donegal11 wrote: »
    So free travel holders are putting a strain on the system making unnecessary travel for which the subsidy doesn't cover the actual cost. How long would it take to spend €60-70 on travel or would FTP holders start walking everywhere or never leave the house :confused:.
    It seems to be taken as an irrevocable fact that all of these travel passes are used. My parents have them and I don't even know where their nearest point of access to public transport would be. Their passes are simply not used to a value anywhere near €70 per year.


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    #94
    V.W.L 11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭V.W.L 11


    ballooba wrote: »
    It seems to be taken as an irrevocable fact that all of these travel passes are used. My parents have them and I don't even know where their nearest point of access to public transport would be. Their passes are simply not used to a value anywhere near €70 per year.

    means test it,same criteria as the medical card perhaps?if you qualify for one get the other????


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    #95
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    If this company is not being subsidised they why would they accept the passes? Basically if they havent an agreement with the social then they shouldnt be accepting or confiscating any passes.


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    #96
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,316 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    If this company is not being subsidised they why would they accept the passes? Basically if they havent an agreement with the social then they shouldnt be accepting or confiscating any passes.

    The Public Service Obligation subsidy is completely independent of the Free Travel Scheme.


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    #97
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    Victor wrote: »
    The Public Service Obligation subsidy is completely independent of the Free Travel Scheme.

    Does a private company operating a local service have to accept the passes? How does it work? Do they get money off the social for doing so?


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    #98
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #99
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    Does a private company operating a local service have to accept the passes? How does it work? Do they get money off the social for doing so?

    Short answer,No.

    The acceptance of the Free Pass is subject to a commercial agreement between the operator and the DSP.

    However,currently the Free Travel Scheme's funding is frozen at 2010 levels so no new agreements are being entered into,this means that a new operator or service COULD acept the Free Pass,however it would actually be FREE in the truest sense of the word !!


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #100
    Hilly Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭Hilly Bill


    So in a nutshell, if there is no agreement then they cant confiscate any passes and if there is then they can?


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    #101
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Hilly Bill wrote: »
    So in a nutshell, if there is no agreement then they cant confiscate any passes and if there is then they can?

    Yes,but if they were not accepting Free Travel Passes in the first place,then there would be no point in attempting to use it.

    In this particular case it appears that the Operator HAS a commercial relationship with the DSP,and is simply introducing a more robust checking and verification process.

    They are not alone in this either.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #102
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    V.W.L 11 wrote: »
    means test it,same criteria as the medical card perhaps?if you qualify for one get the other????

    Whilst as yet there is no indication from the DSP of a change in practice,the introduction of new validation arrangements for DSP Free Travel Recipients would appear to suggest something is afoot.

    Over the past ten days I have also noted that most of the new DSP FT Cards I've inspected have a vaildity up to 2020,so the DSP must be confident of it's budget till then....:)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #103
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,316 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    JJ Kavanagh have a notice up also.

    http://jjkavanagh.ie/timetables

    "All passengers availing of our services using their Free Travel Pass will be required to complete an information slip.
    You will also be required to carry photo id which may be requested for inspection by the driver from time to time."


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    #104
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,682 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    The slip has always being around for JJ's but the other part hasn't. I hope that bus operators in particular actually bother to inspect as it's much bigger problem for them and while IE keep going at this, people will move to the bus as they can get away with it.


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    #105
    Th3B1tcH
    Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭Th3B1tcH


    New credit style 1s are being rolled out got mine week before christmas so hopefully will cut down alot of the abuse
    IMO they shud reveiw all before sending out the new
    its not a big deal when ur called for the new pps card they add it to that and post out then u ring to active whole card
    This shud least kill 1s that werent handed back if a timeframe eg. 6mths as everyone getting new cards,they shud do these 1st with new claims


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    #106
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Th3B1tcH wrote: »
    New credit style 1s are being rolled out got mine week before christmas so hopefully will cut down a lot of the abuse
    IMO they should review all before sending out the new.
    Its not a big deal when ur called for the new pps card,they add it to that and post it out,then u ring to activate whole card.
    This should at least kill 1s that werent handed back,if a timeframe eg: 6mths as everyone getting new cards,they should do these 1st with new claims

    Very true indeed B1tcH.

    The situation regarding the "exchange" of old for new Free Travel Document is currently a grey area.

    It appears that the DSP initially (unsurprisingly) saw no benefit in adopting a form of accountability based introduction for the Free Travel Card.

    Whilst only on a very basic level,an exchange of document at least allowed for some small level of reconciliation in terms of valid documentation.

    However,as it stands,I understand the CIE companies are lobbying at a high level for the DSP to be required to implement some form of actual process to allow for OLD Free Travel Documents to be taken up.

    This approach,is quite simply based upon reality,and that reality being that for a significant period,the DSP's insistance upon the Old-Style Free Pass remaining valid leaves the Free Travel Scheme wide open to an even greater level of Fraud and Misuse than is currently the situation.

    A non-urban Free Travel Scheme member,say with Spouse/Companion endorsement,not required to exchange their old style Free Pass,is then free to leave it around where it may fall into the hands of a non-entitled person who may then see fit to use it until the old type is declared invalid,which may well be quite some time...:rolleyes:

    This scenario,taken to it's limit,could well double the numbers of people actually presenting for Free Travel at the point of use,which given the current lack of ability to physically check,leads to a very interesting situation indeed in accounting terms.

    It may well turn out,that Vehicles and Locations of the CIE group will end up as locations where old "Corn Flakes Box" documents will be accepted for disposal.

    Interesting times ahead !


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #107
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Sure I had a passenger get on yesterday and showed me his hand now I mean hand as he had nothing in it and he proceeded to go upstairs.

    He didn't get far as he wasn't travelling on my bus after that.

    Wonder when there will be new checkers drafted in?


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    #108
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Sure I had a passenger get on yesterday and showed me his hand now I mean hand as he had nothing in it and he proceeded to go upstairs.

    He didn't get far as he wasn't travelling on my bus after that.

    Wonder when there will be new checkers drafted in?

    You could have offered to read his palm for him.
    ......cue spooky theme tune as the Busdriver mournfully intones...."I see you talking a Lonnnng Walk....OHmmmm...all alone...in the rain....You will go far".


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #109
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,316 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Th3B1tcH wrote: »
    New credit style 1s are being rolled out got mine week before christmas so hopefully will cut down alot of the abuse
    IMO they shud reveiw all before sending out the new
    its not a big deal when ur called for the new pps card they add it to that and post out then u ring to active whole card
    This shud least kill 1s that werent handed back if a timeframe eg. 6mths as everyone getting new cards,they shud do these 1st with new claims
    Could I ask that you use full words?

    Moderator


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    #110
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Sure I had a passenger get on yesterday and showed me his hand now I mean hand as he had nothing in it and he proceeded to go upstairs.

    He didn't get far as he wasn't travelling on my bus after that.

    Wonder when there will be new checkers drafted in?

    Whatever about his hand, I'd wager if you inspected his neck you'd discover a startling resemblance to a jockey's bollocks. :):) You have to have a grudging admiration for that.


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    #111
    mikemac1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    In six years of using DB so that is thousands and thousands of journeys I've met an inspector once.

    A team of three got on and they had some hotline setup with welfare to verify if passes were genuine or not. They were getting answers super quick. They got dogs abuse on the infamous 40 and it all came it an end when they removed a ne'er do well who kicked in the door and shattered the glass. Bus out of action

    This thread is welcome news. I wonder where these inspection teams were for the last few years though :/


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    #112
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,274 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    mikemac1 wrote: »
    A team of three got on and they had some hotline setup with welfare to verify if passes were genuine or not. They were getting answers super quick. They got dogs abuse on the infamous 40 and it all came it an end when they removed a ne'er do well who kicked in the door and shattered the glass. Bus out of action

    So, were the Gardai called, perp arrested, and charged with criminal damage (and fraud.) ?

    I think I know the answer... laws in Ireland only apply to those who choose to be bound by them.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #113
    galaxor
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7 ✭galaxor


    This will be good if it stops the freeloaders and traders.

    It won't be good if it stops those of us who need it to get to our appointments with the health service .


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    #114
    Bof No1
    Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭Bof No1


    Anyone who's supposed to have a FT pass shouldn't feel threatened by people doing their job, whether on their way to medical appointments, or not.


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    #115
    Morf
    Registered Users Posts: 3,822 ✭✭✭Morf


    Bof No1 wrote: »
    Anyone who's supposed to have a FT pass shouldn't feel threatened by people doing their job, whether on their way to medical appointments, or not.

    I wouldn't say it's "people doing their jobs" rather than some of the rhetoric being thrown about every time the FTP is mentioned.


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    #116
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,682 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    galaxor wrote: »
    It won't be good if it stops those of us who need it to get to our appointments with the health service .

    What nonsense, why would it affect such a thing, if you entitled to a pass you health appointments won't be affected or any other trips.


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    #117
    Bof No1
    Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭Bof No1


    Morf wrote: »
    I wouldn't say it's "people doing their jobs" rather than some of the rhetoric being thrown about every time the FTP is mentioned.

    The "people doing their jobs" I was referring to, were the inspectors checking FTP's, apologies for my lack of explanation. Rhetoric will always be thrown about when Govt. Depts. and peoples "entitlements" meet!


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    #118
    Morf
    Registered Users Posts: 3,822 ✭✭✭Morf


    Bof No1 wrote: »
    The "people doing their jobs" I was referring to, were the inspectors checking FTP's, apologies for my lack of explanation. Rhetoric will always be thrown about when Govt. Depts. and peoples "entitlements" meet!

    I did understand your point, no need to apologise.

    I was just adding that it was reasonable for legitimate pass holders to feel defensive whenever this topic comes up.


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    #119
    Bof No1
    Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭Bof No1


    Morf wrote: »
    I was just adding that it was reasonable for legitimate pass holders to feel defensive whenever this topic comes up.

    No problem. Unfortunately, I don't understand this. If, as you state, someone is a legitimate pass holder, what's to be defensive about? The operative word here being, "legitimate". I understand the "normal" Irish guilt factor, whereby you have something that others don't and you shouldn't flaunt it, but as I've already said, if you're entitled to to it, you're entitled to it.


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    #120
    Morf
    Registered Users Posts: 3,822 ✭✭✭Morf


    Bof No1 wrote: »
    No problem. Unfortunately, I don't understand this. If, as you state, someone is a legitimate pass holder, what's to be defensive about? The operative word here being, "legitimate". I understand the "normal" Irish guilt factor, whereby you have something that others don't and you shouldn't flaunt it, but as I've already said, if you're entitled to to it, you're entitled to it.

    You make a good point.

    It just rings with the agenda to have the working class round on people with state benefits, entitlements and unpleasant terms for people committing benefit fraud. It's a smokescreen for turning a blind-eye to white-collar crime, cronyism and deliberate inequality designed by the politicians, higher civil service, business leaders and so on.

    It annoys me from this perspective.


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    #121
    Bof No1
    Registered Users Posts: 66 ✭✭Bof No1


    I don't disagree entirely with what you're saying, but that's for another discussion thread, because I think we'd be so far off topic as to be on another planet, which might be a good thing, or not!


This discussion has been closed.
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