How to use multiple turning lanes

lyda

Dear Galway Drivers,

The new replacement intersection on the Headford Rd has highlighted a glaring deficiency in Irish drivers. As someone who comes from a country that has had modern roads for more than a decade, let me help you.

First, multiple turn lanes usually have road markings that continue into the lane. You should follow those markings. It will assist you for lining up in the correct lane in the road you are turning onto.

And this brings me to my second, more important point: you need to stay in your lane as you turn. So if you're on the inside lane as you start your turn, you should be on the inside lane when you finish your turn.

If you change lanes as you turn - or just after you turn - you are eventually going to hit someone. And, let's be really clear, you'll be found at fault and your insurance company is going to correctly decide you're a terrible driver.

Love,
People who actually know how to drive

El_Dangeroso

lyda wrote: »

First, multiple turn lanes usually have road markings that continue into the lane. You should follow those markings. It will assist you for lining up in the correct lane in the road you are turning onto.

What a magnificent idea putting road directions on the road in a heavy traffic area where they are covered by cars 90% of the time.

It's fine for locals like myself who know from experience which lane to get to but Galway gets a very high proportion of visitors there is little to know guidance on some junctions in terms of signage.

Also the right turn on the new bodkin junction onto the QB road is far too tight a turning circle and trucks and other wide vehicles in the inner lane often have no choice but to impinge on the outer lane when turning.

zarquon

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

It's fine for locals like myself who know from experience which lane to get to but Galway gets a very high proportion of visitors there is little to know guidance on some junctions in terms of signage.

.

That's a major overlooked issue. I know friends and relatives from the "country" that are nervous driving in the city. They couldn't even handle the roundabouts before and the new junctions induce the same fear in them. Locals eventually figure it out but the occasional city drivers often make a balls up of the new junctions such as lane placement etc. The problem is the learner system in this country. If you get your test around the simpleness of castlebar it does not translate well to cities like Galway or Dublin. Also a lot of drivers have no clue how to use motorways properly as they are not tested on them.

Even in Galway the driver tests avoids complex junctions which is ridiculous imo. If a driver cannot navigate somewhere like bodkin during a test, they have no right to be on the road in the first place. Driver education in this country needs to become more comprehensive and tests need to become more difficult. Also the legacy "license from a cereal box" crowd who got their licenses decades ago without a test need to be retested. Whilst some of the older generation are quite adequate on the roads many are a menace in the city, especially on the new junctions. Observationally i have experienced that the people who seem the most confused at the new bodkin and in wrong lanes etc, tend to have grey hair more often that not. if you got your license 40 years ago and never had to retest, there is sometime inheritantly wrong with that.

brutes1

Good idea, probably should be driving retests every 5/10 years or when licence is up for renewal , might focus peoples minds , especially with changes in rules, and road layouts regularly.

lyda

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

What a magnificent idea putting road directions on the road in a heavy traffic area where they are covered by cars 90% of the time.

It's fine for locals like myself who know from experience which lane to get to but Galway gets a very high proportion of visitors there is little to know guidance on some junctions in terms of signage.

Also the right turn on the new bodkin junction onto the QB road is far too tight a turning circle and trucks and other wide vehicles in the inner lane often have no choice but to impinge on the outer lane when turning.

Your comments would be valid *except* for the fact that:

a) The two times I've almost been hit, it was by the first car in the inner lane.
b) The two times I've almost been hit, the car that nearly hit me took the turn too tightly.

And neither time was the car that nearly hit me a truck.

lyda

zarquon wrote: »

Observationally i have experienced that the people who seem the most confused at the new bodkin and in wrong lanes etc, tend to have grey hair more often that not. if you got your license 40 years ago and never had to retest, there is sometime inheritantly wrong with that.

The car that nearly hit me last week was driven by a young woman. The car that nearly hit me today was driven by an older man. And I have grey hair.

So not all that sure about your assessments there.

WallyGUFC

If people can't handle roundabouts just because they're from the country, they should be put off the road until they know how to use one. And there's no signage issues when people are actually taking the turn and can't stay in their lane. That's just s**t driving, a common trait in Galway.

Saw a lad the last day at Menlo Park RAB, coming from Tuam Road junction. I was in the left lane planning on taking the 2nd exit, going through the new junction. He was behind me. He proceeded to go around and take the 3rd exit, up towards Dyke Road side, from the left hand lane. On what planet is that the correct lane for that manoeuvre? He side-swiped someone using the roundabout properly. And don't get me started on the amount of times I've seen people go around, and around, and around the roundabouts. Joke. If people just woke up and developed even a tiny bit of spacial awareness, there'd be far less issues on the roads.

death1234567

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Galway gets a very high proportion of visitors there is little to know guidance on some junctions in terms of signage.

If your are not able to understand how to use any of the junctions in Galway then you simply shouldn't be driving a car. It's not rocket science.

El_Dangeroso

lyda wrote: »

Your comments would be valid *except* for the fact that:

a) The two times I've almost been hit, it was by the first car in the inner lane.
b) The two times I've almost been hit, the car that nearly hit me took the turn too tightly.

And neither time was the car that nearly hit me a truck.

My comments remain valid in spite of your experience, I did not say that every single near miss on this junction was caused by that issue, but it does remain an issue.

death1234567 wrote: »

If your are not able to understand how to use any of the junctions in Galway then you simply shouldn't be driving a car. It's not rocket science.

So we expect visiting drivers to be psychic and know which lane they are supposed to be in?

lyda

Well how exactly should lanes be marked? Floating blimps and holograms?

zarquon

lyda wrote: »

The car that nearly hit me last week was driven by a young woman. The car that nearly hit me today was driven by an older man. And I have grey hair.

So not all that sure about your assessments there.

I didn't say all but that it was more often than not, that's a big difference. Some older drivers are excellent as are some younger drivers however these tend to be the most problematic groups.

lyda

I mean, my car is above the road and should be visible in traffic and yet twice now I've nearly been ploughed into. The first time the only reason I avoided it was because I slammed on the brakes - thankfully the driver behind me was able to see my car (and, I suspect, the one about to hit me). The car in the inside lane crossed directly into my lane without pause. The one today only partially went into my lane before he noticed, "oh, there's a car there."

I mean, really, do we really need signs to tell people not to put there cars into a place occupied by another car? Surely that seems like a rather basic aspect of driving. Heck, it's useful knowledge generally. "Don't walk there because it's occupied by a building." People should know that; we don't need to start putting signs on building and posts and trees, do we?

Also, you mention trucks on the inside lane would have a hard time turning. Which might be true. Which begs the question - why are they in the inside lane? Generally trucks should be in the outer lane in the first place and they should definitely be in the outer lane when turning. The intersection in question is actually rather massive. And while there are signs I'd add, it's really not all that hard to grok.

snubbleste

Is this a series, is there a 'How to use roundabouts' ?

Mrs OBumble

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

So we expect visiting drivers to be psychic and know which lane they are supposed to be in?

No. But I certainly expect them to make the best guess they can given the available information, and then to drive according to the lane they are in - even if that means they end up making a temporary detour to the wrong place.

And yes, I do know this can be inconveneint: it caused me to do an extra 14km down and up the M1 last time I was in Co Meath. But IMHO that was far better than the alternative.

lyda

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

No. But I certainly expect them to make the best guess they can given the available information, and then to drive according to the lane they are in - even if that means they end up making a temporary detour to the wrong place.

YES! Yes, yes, yes!

I've also watched people go through the Bodkin no-longer-a-roundabout in a turning lane and then go straight. You made a mistake, it sucks, but causing an accident is only going to make it worse.

Iwannahurl

snubbleste wrote: »

Is this a series, is there a 'How to use roundabouts' ?

Snap.

Can we have a catch-all "How To Be A Competent and Responsible Road User in Galway" thread?

I have loads of instructions for motorists (and cyclists, and maybe even a few pedestrians) that I am just busting to share.

I'm not going to start such a thread, mind you, though I would be very happy to contribute...

lyda

I have looked into a dashcam and making a Galway driving horrors youtube channel.

Iwannahurl

Oh and bus companies also.

El_Dangeroso

lyda wrote: »

Well how exactly should lanes be marked? Floating blimps and holograms?

No, it's this amazing new technology called road signs.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

No. But I certainly expect them to make the best guess they can given the available information, and then to drive according to the lane they are in - even if that means they end up making a temporary detour to the wrong place.

I lived in Limerick prior to moving to Galway and the first thing that struck me was how often collisions nearly took place. I never saw a car accident happen in Limerick but I've seen over 5 happen right in front of me here.

I used to wonder how a mere 90 minutes down the road the drivers were so much more educated than in Galway.

And then I realised they weren't, sure you get terrible drivers all over the country, it's just that in Galway slight errors are far more likely to lead to a crash due to narrow roads, congestion and overall poor road design. We'll never get rid of idiot drivers, so we need to factor a bit more leeway into designing our infrastructure.

dilallio

lyda wrote: »

I have looked into a dashcam and making a Galway driving horrors youtube channel.

Youtube orders another 20 Exabytes of storage.

Iwannahurl

And Boards purchases more bandwidth.

swe_fi

These lane-changers really are everywhere in and around Galway. Not one single day passes without seeing something where I in my head go "....How...???...Really...???..."

Layout and bad driver training is a problem for sure but it also strikes me that people don't seem to plan where they are going at all. If I get in my car it is to go somewhere - my target destination - I typically try to find out where that is beforehand if I don't know where it is already. Then based on my local knowledge i adjust my route slightly. Some people just seem to randomly go "hey why don't i just go this way instead" at the last minute and then execute the "Corolla 96 please thanks top of the morning to you sound man thanks wave edge edge merge", the "Micra activate collision avoidance shields blind turn" or the "Zafira diagonal dual lane block maneuver"

Also the majority of people seem like they have borrowed the car they are driving for the day, unfamiliar with lights, indicators, gears, car boundaries, mirrors, seating position....you name it.

I do have sympathy for drivers lack of awareness and lane discipline though. It ain't easy keeping track of all these goddamm LANES while you are doing your make-up, smoking or texting. Bit much to ask like.

Galway has made me a better driver though, it is like the motoring equivalent of military boot-camp.

El_Dangeroso

swe_fi wrote: »

Galway has made me a better driver though, it is like the motoring equivalent of military boot-camp.

This is for sure, it's a crash course (pun absolutely intended) in defensive driving. If you can drive here then you can drive anywhere.

desaparecidos

The message is correct but I still have the urge to say "**** off back to your own country"

Mr Keek

swe_fi wrote: »

These lane-changers really are everywhere in and around Galway. Not one single day passes without seeing something where I in my head go "....How...???...Really...???..."

Same here,

Call me petty, but I'm not sitting in traffic and letting these 'Lane Changers' cut in at the last sec, these people are causing traffic build up.

If you're on the bridge, and not in lane to turn left onto the Headford Rd and flick on your indicator right at the last min. I'm blocking you, I will speed up so you won't get in front of me, and I will slow down after the gap is closed so you don't get behind me either. You've the whole bridge to get into lane...I'm usually a very courteous driver otherwise, but that particular bit drives me insane.

Iwannahurl

desaparecidos wrote: »

The message is correct but I still have the urge to say "**** off back to your own country"

I was on a roundabout recently where on a daily basis hundreds if not thousands of motorists execute a right turn by entering in the right-hand lane and then switching just after the first exit (most of them not indicating) to the left-hand (outside) lane.

Just recently I saw a squad car take the right-hand lane to enter, use the inside (right-hand) lane to execute the right turn without indicating, exit the roundabout without indicating left, and then drive past a long line of stationary or slow-moving traffic all the way to a rather dangerous signalised junction before indicating left in order to cut through the line of traffic and go straight on.

What country was the Garda driver from?

Goldenjohn

Its Galway for gods sake, you just use a lane that will get you through a roundabout or junction as quickly as possible...irrespective of the rules of the road....oh and dont use indicators either it will only distract you from your phone call

swe_fi

desaparecidos wrote: »

The message is correct but I still have the urge to say "**** off back to your own country"

I appreciate that, but it wouldn't actually improve the situation, and I quite like it here.

Mrs OBumble

Iwannahurl wrote: »

What country was the Garda driver from?

Mayo.



(ducking now ...)

galah

actually, proper signage would really, really help, especially on the new junction layouts. Half the signs are either covered by shrubbery or non-existent...no wonder people do so many stupid things.

Having lived here for a long time, even I found the road layout of the new Tesco junction slightly confusing at first, as there are no obvious signs telling you which lanes to use (and the arrows may be covered by cars).

But other than that - the standard of driving here is a joke. Not one day goes by where you don't go 'WTF did s/he do that for?!' at some crazy manouevre or other, starting with very simply things such as just stopping at random, crazy lane changes without indicating, speeding (I don't know how many times I got overtaken coming into Barna for example, when doing the speed limit in the village, by some prick flooring it without any respect to the people there or that there may be cars coming out of the side roads not expecting some dick doing 100 on their side of the road (just to meet them at the red traffic light 3 seconds later...) and all these other annoying things...:mad:

This town could really clean up if we had proper traffic policing (and matching fines that would go to the city's coffers to help improve the road network).

/rant

Iwannahurl

galah wrote: »

This town could really clean up if we had proper traffic policing (and matching fines that would go to the city's coffers to help improve the road network).

/rant

I shall give the first part of the above statement the charity of my silence.

The second part, concerning the imposition of road traffic fines that would go to the city's coffers, is an appealing idea. Unfortunately it's not possible in this country afaik, other than parking fines (let's not go there just now).

It would be great if the local authority had the powers to install speed cameras, with the revenue going directly to the city for the provision of services such as road maintenance and the development of infrastructure such as intelligent traffic lights, pedestrian crossings, decent cycle lanes etc.

Some time in the 22nd Century perhaps?

El_Dangeroso

I saw in the independent yesterday that Galway is really low in the 'penalty points given per motorist' league tables.

Is it any wonder when we have practically invisible traffic policing in this city.

I've seen cars perform illegal u-turns IN FRONT OF a Garda car and the the driver wasn't even reprimanded.

Although it doesn't help when I see Gardai flout the rules so often themselves (indicating is only for civilians it would seem)

pleasant Co.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

It would be great if the local authority had the powers to install speed cameras, with the revenue going directly to the city for the provision of services such as road maintenance and the development of infrastructure such as intelligent traffic lights, pedestrian crossings, decent cycle lanes etc.

Revenue :pac: I think you mean the eventual debt in order to maintain, run and enforce such monitoring systems...whether they'd even be able to pay for themselves initially is quite questionable. Probably not a hypothetical talking point worth getting into though

Iwannahurl

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

I saw in the independent yesterday that Galway is really low in the 'penalty points given per motorist' league tables.

Is it any wonder when we have practically invisible traffic policing in this city.

I've seen cars perform illegal u-turns IN FRONT OF a Garda car and the the driver wasn't even reprimanded.

Although it doesn't help when I see Gardai flout the rules so often themselves (indicating is only for civilians it would seem)

It seems that you have to try quite hard in this city to get done for anything other than Motor Tax.

I was in Salthill twice on November 13, before and then after lunch. My attention was drawn to a car parked against the flow of traffic on the right-hand side of the raised median opposite Bank of Ireland. It was there for perhaps two hours.

In the afternoon, amid the usual parking free-for-all, a squad car arrived, did a u-turn and pulled up here beside the post office (straddling the entrance to Beach Avenue, opposite Lenaboy Gardens, marked with the blue arrow below).

The Garda in the passenger seat got out and entered the post office, to do business of some sort. On the way there, while in the area, and on their way back to the station presumably, the two Garda officers passed by numerous vehicles parked in a state of blatant abandonmentness, including the 'contraflow' example that first caught my eye. The offending motorists were obstructing disabled parking bays, bus stops, footpaths, pedestrian crossings and junctions. I reckon there were at least 20 such vehicles within a 200 metre radius, ie the standard casual anarchy for this area. Drivers came and went and parked where they pleased in full view, their demeanour apparently one of languid insouciance. All this in just one small area over a period of only ten minutes. (Confirmatory photos -- of the vehicles, not the chilled-out punters -- available on request :cool:)

Iwannahurl

pleasant Co. wrote: »

Revenue :pac: I think you mean the eventual debt in order to maintain, run and enforce such monitoring systems...whether they'd even be able to pay for themselves initially is quite questionable. Probably not a hypothetical talking point worth getting into though

I thought speed cameras paid for themselves, with some spending money left over. The fines motivate motorists to slow down, and the revenue motivates governments to roll out speed surveillance measures.

http://www.thejournal.ie/new-speed-cameras-collect-e10million-in-fines-350307-Feb2012/

http://smh.drive.com.au/top-speed-cameras-still-make-a-fast-buck-20110727-1i0de.html

Eeden

Iwannahurl wrote: »

blatant abandonmentness

I like this!

Iwannahurl

Eeden wrote: »

I like this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8k1d8uX9Gw

pleasant Co.

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I thought speed cameras paid for themselves, with some spending money left over. The fines motivate motorists to slow down, and the revenue motivates governments to roll out speed surveillance measures.

http://www.thejournal.ie/new-speed-cameras-collect-e10million-in-fines-350307-Feb2012/

http://smh.drive.com.au/top-speed-cameras-still-make-a-fast-buck-20110727-1i0de.html

http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/news/swindon-has-uk%E2%80%99s-safest-roads-after-scrapping-speed-cameras-20120326.html

In a city the size of galway we'd need some fairly severe fines for them to pay for themselves in the long run, motorists would quickly learn where the cameras are and avoid those areas - the more cameras you put in place the higher the running cost will be so they won't be everywhere.

Like I said, this hypothetical isn't worth the effort, not on my part at least.

Iwannahurl

pleasant Co. wrote: »

http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/news/swindon-has-uk%E2%80%99s-safest-roads-after-scrapping-speed-cameras-20120326.html

In a city the size of galway we'd need some fairly severe fines for them to pay for themselves in the long run, motorists would quickly learn where the cameras are and avoid those areas - the more cameras you put in place the higher the running cost will be so they won't be everywhere.

Like I said, this hypothetical isn't worth the effort, not on my part at least.

More money may be ploughed into education campaigns and the police have promised to continue to use mobile cameras to catch speeding motorists.

Swindon's decision has been controversial. The Tory-controlled council says it used to spend around £250,000 a year out of its £320,000 road safety budget on the cameras.

It said the fines paid by errant drivers went straight to central government rather than being ploughed back into local schemes. It also argued that only 6% of accidents on the road were down to speed.

Opposition politicians have accused Swindon of "playing politics with people's lives" and the road safety charity Brake said it was "appalled".

On the Oxford Road in Swindon today, most people seemed sceptical of the plan.

Maureen Mulvey, who was walking along the A road (speed limit 30mph) with her three-year-old granddaughter Kaetlyn, said: "This road is so busy. I think the cameras are a good thing. We could do with more, really. When the road is quiet people bomb along and the cameras do slow them down a bit. It's all about money, isn't it? It's always about money."

Lorraine Gould was trying to cross the road with four of her children, three of them on bicycles. "It's a worry that the cameras are going. I don't think those signs that just flash up your speed work. At least the cameras make the motorists think."

One of the few scrapping supporters was Steve, who was eating a burger in a souped-up saloon car in McDonald's car park. "I think it's a great idea. It means I won't have to put the anchor on when I go through there any more. It'll save my brakes. That's great."

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/jul/31/swindon-scraps-speed-cameras

biko

I don't know what this thread is about now but it's not new junction lanes any more.

Today's lessons - stay in lane, and stay on topic.