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Pure in heart abstinence only education

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    #242
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Nodin wrote: »
    Yes, it poxy well is.
    Prophetic words indeed!!
    Nodin wrote: »
    You're spouting anti-condom crap straight from the manual, ffs.
    Condoms are fine ... just don't rely on them to protect you if your partner sleeps around!!!


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    #243
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,720 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    Prophetic words indeed!!

    Condoms are fine ... just don't rely on them to protect you if your partner sleeps around!!!

    Not using condoms will offer zero protection compared to using a condom.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #244
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    Only if you don't understand that there is an 85% success rate.
    ... roughly the 'success rate' of 'russian roulette' !!!:eek:
    FYI its 83%!!


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    #245
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    Not using condoms will offer zero protection compared to using a condom.
    Quite true ... but the point is that you are still running serious risks ... even when using condoms, outside a monogamous relationship.
    It could be classed as 'safer' ... but certainly not 'safe' sex ... its like using a pistol with a 10 chamber magazine to play 'russian roulette' ... instead of a 6 chamber pistol.


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    #246
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,119 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    J C wrote: »
    She does ... that was one of the (many) reasons that she chose to marry me!!!:D

    ... and jealously will get you nowhere!!!:P

    Haven't you bothered taking Gordon's post on board?
    Gordon wrote: »
    J C, I am honestly zoning out of your replies now simply because of your use of bolding key words, multiple ellipses, shocked face icons and multiple exclamation marks. You don't need these hyperbolic punctuations to add to, or support your point, they should be able to stand on their own.

    Obviously this is your choice, but I find that when someone overuses punctuation like that, it's usually to stress a point that is not obvious to the reader, but instead is the key point the writer is trying to make. And if that's the case, then you're writing a whole load of fluff and padding around the central point that is bolded or punctuated, so your point is being lost. And if you're writing a whole load of fluff and padding, then why should I have to wade through all that when an overpunctuator can instead be succinct? Therefore, I naturally zone out due to eye tiredness, and maybe others do too, just a suggestion.

    Sorry for off topic.


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    #247
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,720 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    ... roughly the 'success rate' of 'russian roulette' !!!:eek:
    FYI its 83%!!

    100-15 =85 last I checked. Regardless, 85% approx. means that the condom will have significant odds that it won't fail. The opposite to what you were incorrectly suggesting.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #248
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Sarky wrote: »
    So in addition to being utterly clueless and incorrect on matters of sex education (and all the rest), J C also has a small penis.
    Do you always add two plus two ... and get six?:)

    You must be confusing me with Gordon's 'small' friend !!!:)
    Gordon wrote: »
    Hmm.. well I cut the top off a condom and split it down the middle and it measures 12cm x 18cm (I don't buy those small ones, they are a friend's...)


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    #249
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Haven't you bothered taking Gordon's post on board?
    I have ... emphasis mine!!!


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    #250
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    100-15 =85 last I checked. Regardless, 85% approx. means that the condom will have significant odds that it won't fail. The opposite to what you were incorrectly suggesting.
    ... and the 5 out of 6 empty chambers in a 'russian roulette' pistol also gives you odds of survival of 83% ... but it's a dying game, that I certainly wouldn't play!!!


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    #251
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,720 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    Quite true ... but the point is that you are still running serious risks ... even when using condoms, outside a monogamous relationship.
    It could be classed as 'safer' ... but certainly not 'safe' sex ... its like using a pistol with a 10 chamber magazine to play 'russian roulette' ... instead of a 6 chamber pistol.


    All sex carries risk. Abstinence only nonsense does nothing to educate people about those risks. It's head in the sand silliness. Educating youths about safe sex and the use of contraceptives is the only way to go. Let them know about all the potential problems of sexual relationships and let them make informed decisions. The alternative is what you're suggesting, i.e. no sex until marriage and they'll magically figure it out on the honeymoon :rolleyes:

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #252
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,720 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    ... and the 5 out of six empty chambers in a 'russian roulette' pistol also gives you odds of survival of 83% ... but it's a dying game, that I certainly wouldn't play!!!

    are you suggesting that sexual intercourse is a 'dying game'? :confused:

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #253
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    All sex carries risk. Abstinence only nonsense does nothing to educate people about those risks. It's head in the sand silliness. Educating youths about safe sex and the use of contraceptives is the only way to go. Let them know about all the potential problems of sexual relationships and let them make informed decisions. The alternative is what you're suggesting, i.e. no sex until marriage and they'll magically figure it out on the honeymoon :rolleyes:
    I'm suggesting Absitnence Pledges, and monagomy when they start to have sex.

    I agree that this is the ideal ... and in so far as we stray from this 'ideal' we run moral and physical risks.

    ... and the real 'head in the sand silliness' is saying that condoms ensure 'safe' sex when they have failure risks up at the level of 'russian roulette'!!!

    Condoms may make sex somewhat 'safer', depending on the health status of your partner ... but they certainly don't provide 'safe' sex ...
    ... if you want that, choose your spouse carefully ... and be fathful to them ... and use a condom carefully.


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    #254
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    are you suggesting that sexual intercourse is a 'dying game'? :confused:
    ... it depends on who you are having sex with ... and what they've got.

    ... for me it's been life giving ... and life affirming.


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    #255
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    J C wrote: »
    She does ... that was one of the (many) reasons that she chose to marry me!!!:D

    ... and jealously will get you nowhere!!!:P
    How did she know how big your penis was before you got married?

    MrP


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    #256
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,720 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    I'm suggesting Absitnence Pledges and monagomy when they do start to have sex.

    I agree that this is the ideal ... and in so far as we stray from this 'ideal' we run moral and physical risks.
    You agree with who? :confused:
    ... and the real 'head in the sand silliness' is saying that condoms ensure 'safe' sex when they have failure risks up at the level of 'russian roulette'!!!
    This is hysterics and misrepresentation put together in a nice bow. Using a condom when engaging in sexual act is safer than not using one. But feel free to provide medical evidence to the contrary.

    Condoms may make sex somewhat 'safer', depending on the health status of your partner ... but they certainly don't provide 'safe' sex ...
    ... if you want that, choose your spouse carefully ... and be fathful to them ... and use a condom carefully.
    Are you suggesting that using a condom when your partner has certain STI/STDs is more dangerous to a persons health when compared to not using a condom? Really??

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #257
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,849 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    God said nothing about dick pics. :pac:


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    #258
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,720 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    ... it depends on who you are having sex with ... and what they've got.

    ... for me it's been life giving ... and life affirming.

    That's a dodge.

    Russian roulette is a game of chance. You were suggesting that sexual intercourse is the same with regards to the odds of death. Are you now retracting that daft claim?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #259
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    MrPudding wrote: »
    How did she know how big your penis was before you got married?

    MrP
    Like I've said ... jealousy will get you nowhere Mr P:p


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    #260
    MrPudding
    Registered Users Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    J C wrote: »
    Like I've said ... jealousy will get you nowhere Mr P:p

    That you could even think that I might be jealous of you is highly offensive. You have nothing, nothing, that I would be jealous of. Are you confusing jealously with pity again? Cos I do feel quite a bit of pity towards you...

    MrP


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    #261
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    That's a dodge.

    Russian roulette is a game of chance. You were suggesting that sexual intercourse is the same with regards to the odds of death. Are you now retracting that daft claim?
    The failure rates with condoms at 15-18% are in the same 'ballpark' as the risk of being shot in 'russian roulette' (16.66%).

    A condom 'failure' is defined as an unwanted pregnancy ... but it could also result in an unwanted disease.

    I agree that using a condom reduces the risk of disease transmission and pregnancy ... but choosing your spouse carefully and remaining faithful to them is the only known form of truly 'safe' sex.


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    #262
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    MrPudding wrote: »
    That you could even think that I might be jealous of you is highly offensive. You have nothing, nothing, that I would be jealous of. Are you confusing jealously with pity again? Cos I do feel quite a bit of pity towards you...

    MrP
    Methinks that you protest too much!!:)

    ... and your pity could be that start of a proper friendship, amongst equals, between you and me ... Happy New Year.


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    #263
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,720 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    The failure rates with condoms at 15-18% are in the same 'ballpark' as the risk of being shot in 'russian roulette' (16.66%).

    A condom 'failure' is defined as an unwanted pregnancy ... but it could also result in an unwanted disease.
    And those consequences drastically increase when you don't use protection and have no sexual education in schools.
    I agree that using a condom reduces the risk of disease transmission and pregnancy ... but choosing your spouse carefully and remaining faithful to them is the only known form of truly 'safe' sex.
    and how does that work in the real world? Relationships break down. People form new relationships. How exactly is not using condoms safer than using them?

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #264
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    This is hysterics and misrepresentation put together in a nice bow. Using a condom when engaging in sexual act is safer than not using one. But feel free to provide medical evidence to the contrary.
    It is evidentially and fact based.
    Using a condom is indeed safer than not using one ... but the only safe sex is faithful monogamous sex.

    koth wrote: »
    Are you suggesting that using a condom when your partner has certain STI/STDs is more dangerous to a persons health when compared to not using a condom? Really??
    No, I'm not.
    ... but I am saying that sadly, even using a condom when your partner has an STD is very risky ... due to the failure rates of condoms ... and the fact that many STDs can be transmitted, even when a condom is worn.


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    #265
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,720 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    It is evidentially and fact based.
    Using a condom is indeed safer than not using one ... but the only safe sex is faithful monogamous sex.
    And being celibate is safer than monogamous sex. Guess we should all stop having sex.:rolleyes:

    The thread is about abstinence being the only sexual education teens are getting. This is an unsafe, and frankly stupid, way to go about reducing unwanted pregnancies and/or STDs.
    No, I'm not.
    ... but I am saying that sadly, even using a condom when your partner has an STD is very risky ... due to the failure rates of condoms ... and the fact that many STDs can be transmitted, even when a condom is worn.
    That's not an argument to not have good sex education in schools. If anything it's an argument against the abstinence only lesson plan.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #266
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    And those consequences drastically increase when you don't use protection and have no sexual education in schools.
    ... only if you or your partner are 'sleeping around'.
    Like I have said, I have no problem with adults using condoms or sex education in schools ... once all of the facts are out in the open ... and people are making fully-informed choices about who they sleep with and when ... and what contraception they use and its weaknesses, as well as its strengths.
    koth wrote: »
    and how does that work in the real world? Relationships break down. People form new relationships. How exactly is not using condoms safer than using them?
    Like I have said, choosing your spouse (or indeed your second spouse) carefully and remaining faithful to them, is the only way of enjoying truly 'safe' sex ... everything else involves degrees of 'russian roulette'.


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    #267
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,720 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    ... only if you or your partner are 'sleeping around'.
    Like I have said, I have no problem with adults using condoms or sex education in schools ... once all of the facts are out in the open ... and people are making fully-informed choices about who they sleep with and when ... and what contraception they use and its weaknesses, as well as its strengths.
    But you're defending the abstinence only education:confused::confused:
    Like I have said, choosing your spouse (or indeed your second spouse) carefully and remaining faithful to them, is the only way of enjoying truly 'safe' sex ... everything else involves degrees of 'russian roulette'.
    Once you have sex, condoms are safer than not using them, no matter what type of relationship a person is in. No amount of spin will change that reality.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #268
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    koth wrote: »
    And being celibate is safer than monogamous sex. Guess we should all stop having sex.:rolleyes:
    It's not actually 'safer' to be celibate ... having children increases life expectancy!!!
    ... so the Bible was right after all, when it said to go forth and multiply!!!
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16510865
    http://www.economist.com/news/science-and-technology/21568362-having-children-prolongs-life-pro-creation
    koth wrote: »
    The thread is about abstinence being the only sexual education teens are getting. This is an unsafe, and frankly stupid, way to go about reducing unwanted pregnancies and/or STDs.
    With condom failure rates and teen Chlamydia infections up at 'russian roulette' levels, abstinence has a lot to recommend it.

    koth wrote: »
    That's not an argument to not have good sex education in schools. If anything it's an argument against the abstinence only lesson plan.
    Like I have said, I believe that a comprehensive sex education programme should be provided in school ... including moral and psychosexual issues as well as the benefits of abstinence before entering a committed relationship ... and monogamy afterwards.


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    #269
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,720 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    ... only if you or your partner are 'sleeping around'.
    Like I have said, I have no problem with adults using condoms or sex education in schools ... once all of the facts are out in the open ... and people are making fully-informed choices about who they sleep with and when ... and what contraception they use and its weaknesses, as well as its strengths.
    Wrong. a person can have an STD for any number of reasons other than 'sleeping around'.
    Like I have said, choosing your spouse (or indeed your second spouse) carefully and remaining faithful to them, is the only way of enjoying truly 'safe' sex ... everything else involves degrees of 'russian roulette'.
    Nonsense. You can have STDs without knowing it. You can get STDs without having sex. STDs can be symptom free. So your spouse could have an STD and not know it. Best use a condom to be safe ;)

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • Options
    #270
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,720 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    J C wrote: »
    It's not actually 'safer' to be celibate ... life expectancy increases with each additional child that you produce!!!
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16510865
    So being celibate increases a persons chances of getting an STD? Or are you just moving the goalposts?
    With condom failure rates and teen Chlamydia infections up at 'russian roulette' levels, abstinence has a lot to recommend it.
    Not at the expense of a good sexual education lesson plan, it doesn't.
    Like I have said, I believe that a comprehensive sex education programme should be provided in school ... including moral and psychosexual issues as well as the benefits of abstinence before entering a committed relationship ... and monogamy afterwards.
    But then you're supporting the lesson plan that I've been outlining!

    If you can read this, you're too close!



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    #271
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    J C wrote: »


    Like I have said, I believe that a comprehensive sex education programme should be provided in school ... including moral and psychosexual issues as well as the benefits of abstinence before entering a committed relationship ... and monogamy afterwards.


    Yet your kind of program doesn't work and the other does. This was shown conclusively earlier in the thread so why are you here again trotting out the same discredited crap?


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