Rent allowance - would you accept it

apeking

Would you accept rent allowances from a Tennant?

If you do accept it, what steps do you take to make sure you get it?

Can you get the payment direct into your account?

murphaph

apeking wrote: »

Would you accept rent allowances from a Tennant?

If you do accept it, what steps do you take to make sure you get it?

Can you get the payment direct into your account?

You can have it paid directly to your account but the tenant can get that changed any time they wish so it's no safeguard.

Unless your property is in a hard to rent area then RS is best avoided really. Even if you get a good tenant (and to be honest most probably are) you have to put up with the vagaries if the DSP and the rates being changed arbitrarily etc. Rent is also paid in ARREARS which is a huge problem obviously.

homerno

apeking wrote: »

Would you accept rent allowances from a Tennant?

If you do accept it, what steps do you take to make sure you get it?

Can you get the payment direct into your account?

my advise would be to avoid at all costs, tried it many times , never again unless im desperate

Moonbeam

I accept it for the right tenant.
They pay me there share and social welfare pay be the balance.

Mrs OBumble

Only from the right tenant, eg an existing good tenant who lost their job, and who I think is likely to get another job again soon enough.

Gatling

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Only from the right tenant, eg an existing good tenant who lost their job, and who I think is likely to get another job again soon enough.

And if they didn't find a job

murphaph

Gatling wrote: »

And if they didn't find a job

I suppose they could stay as long as they were able to meet the terms of the lease. More often than not however (at least in Dublin at present) the rent charged will be higher than them maximum allowed under the DSP rules, so the tenant would be told by the DSP to find somewhere cheaper anyway.

fussyonion

I'm a previous RA tenant and I never liked it; too many negatives associated with it.
I certainly wouldn't accept it if I were a Landlord.

I don't blame the recipients of it; it's the system-it's incredibly difficult to get your head round and there's always reductions, forcing the tenant to seek reductions from the Landlord, not to mention not being allowed top up the rent, plus all those forms too.

206Girly

I am on rent allowance since I lost my Job when I was only 19 in 2009. I got a good job when I finished school and worked for two years until everything went bust. I had a baby in 2010 and started to re-skill after he was born. I completed my ECDL, a fetac course in computerised accounts and now I am in my second year of an IT Management degree. I just found out that my Landlord is not able to renew our lease but not because of the rent allowance because the rent rates are up so much that he most likely wants more money. I have been looking everywhere I have a good reference but nobody accepts rent allowance. My rent rate was 875 when I started to rent this place for 900 and just paid the extra 25 myself I had no other choice and just got a separate 875 lease from the landlord to apply. The rent allowance rate went up to 950 later on in the year but I couldn't tell the social welfare I needed 900 really but I didn't mind it put a roof over our head. However due to Landlords like yourselves I am now on the verge of homelessness!! 6% of the current rental portfolio on daft.ie for Dublin searching for 2 bed with max 1050 rent actually accept rent allowance and the standards are extremely poor or else they are on the northside and I am living in South Dublin West. There is no difference in working tenants and rent allowance tenants. Working Tenants could be alcoholics that spend all their wages on drink and start to become in arrears. They could seem lovely to your face but throw parties every week I dont even drink not every person on the social welfare is a "scumbag" just like not every working person is going to be perfect. Yes rent allowance gets paid in arrears but Landlords need a month upfront so I had to borrow this amount to get places in the past which means my last rent cheque is mine and I can put it towards the next place so to not accept because its too difficult is just lazy. You have no idea what consequences your decisions have on ordinary decent people that are just unfortunate to not be as lucky as some to still have their jobs. Not everything is black and white I had a sales job after school and although I worked for 2 years It wasn't really a job for me I wasn't able to sell very well so I wasn't able to prove myself in interviews so I decided to change career as I was getting nowhere. Also another point to add is that rent allowance covers all types of schemes including back to education, disability allowance etc. you are not only discriminating against social welfare jobseekers but you are also discriminating against some of the even more vulnerable people in society e.g. pensioners, disabled/ill, carers etc.

But once your making more money for yourselves thats all that matters...right?!

206Girly

fussyonion wrote: »

plus all those forms too.

What the one page the tenant asks the landlord to fill in and sign? a copy of a proof of ownership & the lease oh god its so much paperwork to fill in....One whole page :eek:

206Girly

apeking wrote: »

Would you accept rent allowances from a Tennant?

If you do accept it, what steps do you take to make sure you get it?

Can you get the payment direct into your account?

I get my payment in my bank account on the last Thursday of the month I then transfer it straight over at midnight with my balance or I go down and lodge the cash into his account its not that big of a deal

How do you ensure you get your rent from your non rent allowance tenants?

Its still up to the tenant to pay the rent no matter what way he/she pays it is irrelevant

whippet

206Girly wrote: »

But once your making more money for yourselves thats all that matters...right?!

i'm not making a single penny on the house I have rented out. I am forced in to becoming a landlord due to the same crash in the economy that has made you unemployed.

Of the numerous tenants I have had 100% of RA tenants cost me money through damages and arrears. 100% of Non-RA tenants have paid their rent on time and generally been good tenants.

When I am on break-even on the property and I have a family to support I will not take any risk what so ever with who I let the house out to.

You might not like it; but I am going to protect my family and interests first.

I sympathise with your situation but unfortunately it's the system that is broken and far too many RA tenants who treat rental properties as crap and as they don't earn the money that pays the bills they couldn't give a monkies about their obligations.

Bepolite

Moonbeam wrote: »

I accept it for the right tenant.
They pay me there share and social welfare pay be the balance.

I'm not judging - but isn't this against the RA rules?

SteelyDanJalapeno

I dont understand the "If you do accept it, what steps do you take to make sure you get it?" question.

What's the difference between somebody working and paying rent, and somebody on rent allowance paying rent, they both make a conscious decision to lodge the payment into the landlords account/

djimi

206Girly wrote: »

But once your making more money for yourselves thats all that matters...right?!

Without wanting to sound cold about it, that pretty much is what matters. Renting is ultimately a business, and like in any business a landlord is not going to get themselves into a situation where they stand to lose money and face unnecessary hassle if they can avoid it. I dont mean to sound heartless about it, but thats the bottom line (and I say this as a tenant, not a landlord). I have full sympathy for how difficult it is to rent on RA, but in many cases it is the first hand experience of dealing with RA (quite often the system more so than the tenants) that will put landlords off wanting to get involved with it again.

The whole rent allowance system in this country is one which needs a major overhaul, as it causing problems for tenants and landlords alike. Unfortunately the ones who will ultimately suffer are going to be the tenants, as landlords have no obligation or incentive to get involved with a system which does not benefit them.

Pawwed Rig

206Girly wrote: »

But once your making more money for yourselves thats all that matters...right?!

I think you are pointing the finger at the wrong place. A LL is in business and should try and get as much for the property as they can. Your issue is with the department who are reducing your entitlements. If the DSP paid market rate then you would have no trouble finding a property.

I have a tenant for the last 3-4 years on rent allowance and honestly could not find a better tenant. Unfortunately after 2 forced rent reductions I have had to inform her that if the DSP tries to force through another reduction she will have to leave as I could not afford further increasing the top I pay between rent received and mortgage paid for her where I can get 25% more rent if I let to a non rent allowance tenant.

beauf

206Girly wrote: »

...But once your making more money for yourselves thats all that matters...right?!

Apparently that's all that matters to a bank.

Bepolite

206Girly wrote: »

But once your making more money for yourselves thats all that matters...right?!

I sympathise with your position - you make an excellent point but it is somewhat difficult to read given the lack of paragraphing, perhaps an edit is in order.

Your final point is one I wish to address, being a Landlord is running a business. If more Landlords understood this I think the rental system here would be in much better shape. That includes being compliant to all regulations including tax but it also involves maximising the profit from one's investment.

Your issue is with the RA system which needs to be radically altered. I actually don't understand why we even have RA - if there is a need for social housing then thats what it should be, not paying LL top dollar to pay off their mortgages.

206Girly

I understand your situation is different however there are a lot of places out there that are actually an investment or say for instance.. there is a few estates with empty units they didn't sell so they rent them out. One particular block of apartments in Tallaght are advertising as having 20 available but will not accept rent allowance. I pay my rent and always treat the places I stay as if they were my own. I repair/replace anything that gets broken which has only ever been minor things such as the odd plate or glass or something..other than things that are the landlords responsibility of course i.e. appliances or heating or leaks etc.

So if you didn't advertise with a big **** off in your face RENT ALLOWANCE NOT ACCEPTED which is so offensive by the way and you have a viewing and a family comes up with references, they seem pretty decent very friendly, well dressed etc. lost their jobs say they are 50 and they cant get work in what they used to would it really harm you to even consider them? Just because the RA tenants in the past ****ed up doesn't mean that they are going to **** up. All I want is a home for my son to be safe and treat like my own for a few years until I can buy my own place well hopefully less than a few but I am never given a chance and always have to pick the first thing that is half suitable for our needs. Most of the time we are left with leaks and just left put up with it almost every landlord I have had up until my current one was a complete an utter arsewhole that was only in it for the money and didn't care what was happening to their properties despite being informed of work needed to be done. I was left to re paint ceiling myself after leaks were repaired but not actually fixed up. My last place was a 2 bed apartment and the day I moved in there was urine all over the mattress soaked in the smell was disgusting I nearly vomited. Its actually such a bad example I have to show ya pictures...This place was 900 per month advertised as a stunning penthouse. When we went to view the tenants were still there so didn't get a good look like ya would if it was empty...











The shower didnt work in the ensuite because the pump was broken for the whole building Landlord just replied.."Its not my problem" so we had no shower only one in the bath but the fan was crap and there were no windows or vents so mould started appearing all over the ceiling.

We lived there for 13 months the shower was never repaired. They got us a new mattress. Repaired the leak up on the roof but never repaired any physical damage.

Not everybody is innocent here some landlords are getting away with murder and I am not talking about those in your situation I am talking about the dodgey ones getting rich on their properties and discriminating people. In this situation the landlord was the builder that built them so he was obviously only in it for the money.

You're right it is the system but not only the rent allowance system but the renting in Ireland system all together..or lack of. I think something really has to be done to protect both landlords and tenants but it seems its mainly the tenants that are suffering especially RA ones and those on low incomes

djimi

206Girly wrote: »

you have a viewing and a family comes up with references, they seem pretty decent very friendly, well dressed etc. lost their jobs say they are 50 and they cant get work in what they used to would it really harm you to even consider them? Just because the RA tenants in the past ****ed up doesn't mean that they are going to **** up.

But the problem you face is why should the landlord take the chance? As has been pointed out, its not always the tenants that are at fault, but ulimately if the RA rates drop then the tenants will either require a rent reduction or will need to leave, either of which affects the landlord.

I completely understand your frustrations, but you have to remove the emotion from it for a minute and look at it from a landlords point of view. They are running a business and as such need to look to maximize their income and minimize the risk of issues arising. It might be seen as discrimination, profiling etc but the bottom line is that many will have been previously burned by RA tenants or the RA system, and will be unwilling to take a risk on going down that road again, and even those who dont have first hand experience will be put off by the stories from those who do. Its ****ty for the tenants who rely on RA, but thats the situation that we have. For many landlords, taking on RA tenants is seen as a risk that they do not need to take.

206Girly

This time last year apartments and some 2 bed houses were going for 900 a month if you're lucky some 875 maybe some 925-950 but rent allowance was only 875, then last year they increased to 950 to meet the current prices however once that happened the rates went up to 1000 or 1050 so they obviously cant keep increasing it or else the rates in the country will just keep going up by landlords so they dont encourage RA applicants.

The system is a total failure there shouldn't be limits it should just be up to the CWO to decide whether it is a reasonable price that reflects the current market and then pay the amount less the applicants contribution which is 30-40 a week

All I am saying is not all rent allowance receivers are the same and should be given a chance to even meet the landlord before he/she excludes them..although I know the demand is really high and its not hard to get someone in for a new lease so I do understand where the landlord is coming from..things have changed alot since 2009 when the demand wasn't as high and RA was only starting to become a payment people relied on. It was only meant to me a temporary solution. The COCOs don't have the houses/apartments to give so the list just keeps increasing

Pawwed Rig

206Girly wrote: »

This time last year apartments and some 2 bed houses were going for 900 a month if you're lucky some 875 maybe some 925-950 but rent allowance was only 875, then last year they increased to 950 to meet the current prices however once that happened the rates went up to 1000 or 1050 so they obviously cant keep increasing it or else the rates in the country will just keep going up by landlords so they dont encourage RA applicants.

This is misunderstanding market forces and seeing conspiracy where there is none. The market sets the rent, not the DSP or Landlords*.
Rent allowance is (and arguably should be) at the very bottom of the market as in the opinion of the DSP Rent Allowance recipients should live in the least desireable accommodation that is available. The problem with RA is that
1. they have (in many cases) dipped below the market rate
2. The properties at the bottom of the market are often not owned by the most ethical of landlords.
3. RA tenants often make illegal top up payments (as you have admitted to yourself) thereby skewing the market and making the policies of the DSP seem to be working.
4. A failure of govt to provide alternative accommodation where a tenant is unable to source at the appropriate price.

*although it could be argued that the DSP was skewing the market for many years.

pc7

I had a RA tenant in the past and always tried to work with them, they had been a good tenant and when rents went up in the area I didn't increase the rent. Then they stung me, left the country, emptied the house and left me short rent, told me they were dealing with CWO and it was coming, called and they were gone. I said I'd take RA again but only if they supplied a deposit and references. I was too nice, waited a few weeks on one, filling in paper work and on the promise of the deposit and rent to come and none did. It was my own fault and it cost me a months rent on top of my previous RA loss. Just because someone is a builder doesn't mean they have a pot to piss in, you signed that lease after looking at the place that was your doing no one elses.
So from now on I'm one of the soulless mean landlords you mention I'll be doing a big no to in RA in the future. My current non RA tenant is a dream and I'll do whatever I can to encourage them to stay. After 9 years of being a landlord (albeit reluctant one) the only tenants I've had issues with were RA. I'm thankful rents have gone up as with the extra charges etc. now its needed. While it might be hard on those looking to rent, it was hard on me when rents were low and its a constant struggle to be able to pay the taxes due on the property and to maintain it.

fussyonion

206Girly wrote: »

I understand your situation is different however there are a lot of places out there that are actually an investment or say for instance.. there is a few estates with empty units they didn't sell so they rent them out. One particular block of apartments in Tallaght are advertising as having 20 available but will not accept rent allowance. I pay my rent and always treat the places I stay as if they were my own. I repair/replace anything that gets broken which has only ever been minor things such as the odd plate or glass or something..other than things that are the landlords responsibility of course i.e. appliances or heating or leaks etc.

So if you didn't advertise with a big **** off in your face RENT ALLOWANCE NOT ACCEPTED which is so offensive by the way and you have a viewing and a family comes up with references, they seem pretty decent very friendly, well dressed etc. lost their jobs say they are 50 and they cant get work in what they used to would it really harm you to even consider them? Just because the RA tenants in the past ****ed up doesn't mean that they are going to **** up. All I want is a home for my son to be safe and treat like my own for a few years until I can buy my own place well hopefully less than a few but I am never given a chance and always have to pick the first thing that is half suitable for our needs. Most of the time we are left with leaks and just left put up with it almost every landlord I have had up until my current one was a complete an utter arsewhole that was only in it for the money and didn't care what was happening to their properties despite being informed of work needed to be done. I was left to re paint ceiling myself after leaks were repaired but not actually fixed up. My last place was a 2 bed apartment and the day I moved in there was urine all over the mattress soaked in the smell was disgusting I nearly vomited. Its actually such a bad example I have to show ya pictures...This place was 900 per month advertised as a stunning penthouse. When we went to view the tenants were still there so didn't get a good look like ya would if it was empty...

The shower didnt work in the ensuite because the pump was broken for the whole building Landlord just replied.."Its not my problem" so we had no shower only one in the bath but the fan was crap and there were no windows or vents so mould started appearing all over the ceiling.

We lived there for 13 months the shower was never repaired. They got us a new mattress. Repaired the leak up on the roof but never repaired any physical damage.

Not everybody is innocent here some landlords are getting away with murder and I am not talking about those in your situation I am talking about the dodgey ones getting rich on their properties and discriminating people. In this situation the landlord was the builder that built them so he was obviously only in it for the money.

You're right it is the system but not only the rent allowance system but the renting in Ireland system all together..or lack of. I think something really has to be done to protect both landlords and tenants but it seems its mainly the tenants that are suffering especially RA ones and those on low incomes

You're directing your anger at the wrong person!
If a Landlord is advertising a property and puts up RENT ALLOWANCE NOT ACCEPTED, he's perfectly entitled to.

Just because the DSP pays you a Rent Allowance you're not happy with, does not mean that's the Landlord's fault.
The Landlord can charge what he likes and can have whoever he likes in his property.
Take your anger out on the DSP-they're the ones paying you the RA.

djimi

fussyonion wrote: »

You're directing your anger at the wrong person!
If a Landlord is advertising a property and puts up RENT ALLOWANCE NOT ACCEPTED, he's perfectly entitled to.

I also would have thought that it would be preferable to know in advance rather than wasting the price of a phone call or worse your time and petrol going to see a property only to be refused when the landlord finds out you are on RA?

beauf

If the govt want to provide rent controlled properties at lower rent they have the resources through nama and the banks to do it. They have decided not to do this.

gemini_girl

I can understand years ago when there were lots of jobs that people on RA had a bad name by choosing not to work.
Now ordinary decent people are out of work through no fault of their own. People who may have lost their homes or be sick on disability benefit.
On top of that the rent allowance limits set by cwo are too low for market value.
In my town the average rent is 900 a month for 3 bed house yet the rent allowance is 725 ...
On top of that not one single property accepts rent allowance thats advertised on daft in the town i live in.
So my husband could find a job being paid 350 a week & LL will accept this or he can get a tenant getting rent allowance & unemployment benefit for 490 a week ... yet the person on low income is accepted but not person getting more money.
Out of interest can a LL ask a tenant what their income is???
How can you tell rent will be paid?
Ourselves have excellent refs but unforunately my husband lost his job but funnily enough there is no difference in his income from his job & his UB with RA.
Now the house we rent is up for sale so we wil be moving again & as RA is not accepted I've no idea what we'll do as changing location isnt an option due to my sons school ...
I think LL should go be references first & then decide
whether they will take RA

Pawwed Rig

WhiteTiger wrote: »

I think LL should go be references first & then decide
whether they will take RA

I accepted a tenant with good references on Rent Allowance a few years ago and they absolutely terrorised the neighbourhood. 3 years of hassle I had because of them. Even now the neighbours are still frosty towards me. When the case went to the PRTB they ruled in my favour but the tenant had no money so couldn't pay for any of the damage.

That said I still wouldn't exclude someone because they were on rent allowance but my confidence in my ability to spot absolute scum is badly shaken reference or not.

A LL can ask for whatever documents he likes including wage slips, bank statements, passports etc etc. It is up to the prospective tenant if they want to provide them or not.

runawaybishop

WhiteTiger wrote: »

I can understand years ago when there were lots of jobs that people on RA had a bad name by choosing not to work.
Now ordinary decent people are out of work through no fault of their own. People who may have lost their homes or be sick on disability benefit.
On top of that the rent allowance limits set by cwo are too low for market value.
In my town the average rent is 900 a month for 3 bed house yet the rent allowance is 725 ...
On top of that not one single property accepts rent allowance thats advertised on daft in the town i live in.
So my husband could find a job being paid 350 a week & LL will accept this or he can get a tenant getting rent allowance & unemployment benefit for 490 a week ... yet the person on low income is accepted but not person getting more money.
Out of interest can a LL ask a tenant what their income is???
How can you tell rent will be paid?
Ourselves have excellent refs but unforunately my husband lost his job but funnily enough there is no difference in his income from his job & his UB with RA.
Now the house we rent is up for sale so we wil be moving again & as RA is not accepted I've no idea what we'll do as changing location isnt an option due to my sons school ...
I think LL should go be references first & then decide
whether they will take RA

Yes, they can ask. You can not answer though.

professore

beauf wrote: »

If the govt want to provide rent controlled properties at lower rent they have the resources through nama and the banks to do it. They have decided not to do this.

This. There should be no such thing as rent allowance.

Pawwed Rig

professore wrote: »

This. There should be no such thing as rent allowance.

They tried that for a long time and it cost an absolute fortune. Rent allowance is the cheaper option believe it or not as previously the councils were responsible for all sorts of maintenance in the houses aswell as rubbish collection, gardening, cleaning etc etc. Now they can get private LLs to do all of that stuff