School uniforms and preperation for work life

Ray Palmer

I remember when I was in school school dress policy was relatively relaxed compared to other schools. In saying that there were still some silly enforcements. While there are arguments for dress code revolving around stopping students getting into fashion show battles in schools that was never the emphasis in our school. They used to go on how it was a preparation for life. According to the school we would have to wear ties in work, wouldn't be able to have long hair or beards. Earrings were never going to be allowed in work for men etc... There was also talk about representing the school and uniforms made the pupils look better.
Of course once I started working none of these things were issues. So how do other people look at the belief school uniform prepared you for what work would be like?

ScumLord

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Of course once I started working none of these things were issues.

That's because your generation took over and what's acceptable changed with it.

We're not really a uniform type of people anymore. We don't automatically respect someone for having more bling or fancier suits. Hopefully these days we're teaching children the type of mental skills they'll need in the workplace (but more importantly for life) rather than conforming to your role inside a large corporation.

ghogie91

I still act like im in school when it comes to these rules haha

Ray Palmer

ScumLord wrote: »

That's because your generation took over and what's acceptable changed with it.

.

They still enforce the same rules now in the same school with the same reasons. That is 20+ years later

o1s1n

School uniforms are a great way to put all the kids on a level playing field. There's no 'haha, look at Jimmy, he can't afford XYZ'

Obviously hated them at the time (and loved non uniform days) but looking back they're definitely a good idea.

ScumLord

Ray Palmer wrote: »

They still enforce the same rules now in the same school with the same reasons. That is 20+ years later

They're still using teaching practices from decades before that. Just about every public service in this country is hopelessly stuck in the past.

Mint Aero

o1s1n wrote: »

loved non uniform days

I hated your type when I was in school

Agricola

o1s1n wrote: »

School uniforms are a great way to put all the kids on a level playing field. There's no 'haha, look at Jimmy, he can't afford XYZ'

Obviously hated them at the time (and loved non uniform days) but looking back they're definitely a good idea.

Yeah thats the number one reason to have them. Even 20 years ago, I can imagine the kind of slagging certain people would have gotten for wearing Penny's best. What it would be like in this age of ultra competition from the age of 9 and cyber bullying!

kowloon

My secondary school had a jumper that cost more than a full set of designer gear. The poorer kids still got singled out because they had patches on the elbows of their jumper. The whole 'great leveller' argument holds no weight with me. Anyway, they judge each other these days on which smartphone they have.

old hippy

I don't remember any of us liking the uniform. Did it prepare me for work? LOL, not in the slightest. I rarely wear a tie, unless I feel like it and in the sunnier months, I wear what could be described as "colourful attire". That said, if I was the public face of the company and had to do a lot of meet & greets with clients and such, of course I would "smarten up", so to speak.

o1s1n

Mint Aero wrote: »

I hated your type when I was in school

Were you the Rain Man type?

Did non uniform days break your regimental routine which without, you wouldn't be able to get through the day?

Mint Aero

o1s1n wrote: »

Were you the Rain Man type?

Yeps, ergo you can't mock me now

anncoates

The notion that wearing a uniform in school somehow turns you into a unthinking drone later in life is a confection best left to the students union bar

It's a set of f_cking clothes .

The Backwards Man

We had a hotshot quiz team for blackboard jungle one year and we cruised our first round wearing (under protest) our school uniforms. We were so impressive in blazing away the opposition that we convinced our principal that
by wearing our own clothes it would gives us more freedom of inspirational thought to win the quiz. He finally relented, we got hammered in the next round, he was pissed at me for the rest of the year and finally got me expelled for shaving my own hair in Honours Maths. (overturned on appeal):)

There's a lesson in there somewhere, but I forget what it is.:o

old hippy

anncoates wrote: »

The notion that wearing a uniform in school somehow turns you into a unthinking drone later in life is a confection best left to the students union bar

It's a set of f_cking clothes .

For me, it was the connotations of donning the garb. It meant, "oh Christ, back to school" - and I didn't much care for parts of my educational years.

KatyMac

o1s1n wrote: »

School uniforms are a great way to put all the kids on a level playing field. There's no 'haha, look at Jimmy, he can't afford XYZ'

Obviously hated them at the time (and loved non uniform days) but looking back they're definitely a good idea.

Have to buy daft shoes for my daughter, they cost over 100 yoyos. Can just about afford them by the fact that I didn't buy the school jacket. Don't think it benefits the child much especially as she has loads of other perfectly good shoes that she can't wear to school! So, Jimmette can't afford XYZ.

ScumLord

anncoates wrote: »

The notion that wearing a uniform in school somehow turns you into a unthinking drone later in life is a confection best left to the students union bar

It's a set of f_cking clothes .

by that logic it would surely mean that wearing a school uniform won't better acclimatize you to the work place.

uniforms may have been introduced in an attempt to make a level playing field but at this stage there another alternative source of income for schools that can charge a royalty to use their crest. It's basically the same thing as brand companies buying cheap clothes, putting their logo on it and charging designer prices.

Karl Stein

The sum total of the school experience does inculcate children with the 'values' that perpetuate societal structures with deference to authority a central tenet.

shruikan2553

Ah yes, 15-20 euro for a shirt that had to be bought in a specific shop. It was for the best I suppose, many werent able to afford the designer clothes because they spent all their money on the damn shirts, never mind the rest of the uniform.

The only time I have had to do work in anything that wasn't casual was to go to a job interview. I dont know where they expect us all to be working after school if the uniform is meant to prepare us for it.

Galwayguy35

Twas a funny system in our school, the girls had to wear a uniform but we didn't.

Bipolar Joe

Says a lot about how good they think their own educational system is. "John-Joe, you're gonna be wearing a uniform until you retire, so might as well get used to it. And flipping burgers."

o1s1n

KatyMac wrote: »

Have to buy daft shoes for my daughter, they cost over 100 yoyos. Can just about afford them by the fact that I didn't buy the school jacket. Don't think it benefits the child much especially as she has loads of other perfectly good shoes that she can't wear to school! So, Jimmette can't afford XYZ.

Where are you sending your kid to school, Eton? :eek:

KatyMac

o1s1n wrote: »

Where are you sending your kid to school, Eton? :eek:

:D:D:D That's a couple of years down the track:D:D:D

Tiddlypeeps

I used to always get in trouble for not having the right uniform bits. The uniform was crazy expensive and if bits went missing/got broken my parents couldn't always afford to replace them. Especially some Septembers when me or my sisters might have grown a lot and needed a whole new uniform. My parents often lived week to week moneywise so this was really tough on them.

I used to get in trouble for not having the proper school coat. It was €70 and that was about 10 years ago. The jumper was like €50 and I think the skirts were pretty close to that too. €10 for a tie. We had to get a very specific pair of socks that cost €10 a pair and only one shop in the town sold any of these things. I had spare shirts and socks but my folks could never afford to get me spare jumpers or skirts because they were so pricy so I had to make sure to wash them as soon as I got in from school so they would be dry by the next day when they needed it.

It would have been much easier on my parents if they could just buy us clothes in penny's. Clothes we needed anyway because we couldn't wear uniforms on the weekend so it would have been much more afford able too. I would have been happier to get the odd comment from snobby children about wearing penny's clothes than getting in trouble regularly from the teachers from not having the full uniform. Kids make fun of you for that too because if it happens often enough they think you are doing it deliberately to be a rebel.

Uniforms could be a great equaliser if they allowed you to wear generic stuff but school boards abuse the parents by partnering up with their mates down the road who run the local clothes shop creating a monopoly on uniforms because they can't be gotten anywhere else. It's **** and it puts a crazy amount of pressure on struggling parents, especially when you typically have to buy new ones around the same time that you need loads of new school books too.

Gbear

Uniforms are a load of bollocks.

Kids are always going to find things to be competetive about.
If it's not clothes, it'll be phones and other gadgetry or who goes on the piss in some field the most often.

Fair enough having a dress code - schools should be entitled to demand that you don't look like a scummer - but a specific uniform seems like a money-making excercise and needless authoritarianism.

Ray Palmer

o1s1n wrote: »

School uniforms are a great way to put all the kids on a level playing field. There's no 'haha, look at Jimmy, he can't afford XYZ'

Obviously hated them at the time (and loved non uniform days) but looking back they're definitely a good idea.

I kind of addressed that in the opening,it wasn't being said as a prevention for clothes snobbery. As a method it is useless, bags,shoes,coat,stationary all give the game away.

I always felt the idea of it as a way to limit slagging based on wealth or taste was pointless. The school seemed pretty honest about why the did it.

looking_around

I remember in my school cost
Jackets: 120
Trousers: 70(for girls) Boys could pick up any grey trousers from anywhere. (I always felt that was sexist.)
Skirts: 50 (that would have to be stitched to the wearer's knee height.)
Jumpers: 50. (sh!t yokes, freezing in winter, sweating in summer.)
Shirts: 25

Not allowed anything else but the uniform, shoes had to be black.

This was all to "level the playing field".

My mom told them to feck off with the jacket. And many others did the same. Though the school did nag and anyone in sports were forced to get a jacket for going to other schools for matches and stuff.Or would be off the team.
_____
I knew many kids that only had 1 set. By the end of the year, it would be falling apart. And the school would have the cheek to point out tares in the uniform of someone in front of the whole class. On how "shameful" it is. and that they should look after the uniform better.
Ridiculous bullshi!t. Uniforms are to make the school look better. Make everyone look the same in the hopes of teaching kids to "conform" and creating a society that doesn't question. ..Sadly..in that, it seems to be working.

April O Neill II

kowloon wrote: »

My secondary school had a jumper that cost more than a full set of designer gear.

Really? I had one jumper for the senior cycle (1999-2001), it cost 30 quid.

Sulla Felix

o1s1n wrote: »

School uniforms are a great way to put all the kids on a level playing field. There's no 'haha, look at Jimmy, he can't afford XYZ'

Obviously hated them at the time (and loved non uniform days) but looking back they're definitely a good idea.

Bullsh1t. If Jimmy isn't being bullied for not being able to afford XYZ he'll be bullied for something else. Kids are creative like that.

saltyjack silverblade

I frequently purchase XYZ as I am a single educated male in my late 20s with no attachments or responsibilities. Only yesterday I was telling a colleague how great my life was being able to afford XYZ. She, a divorced single mother of a teenager can only afford the ABC. But that is really her choice. Her husband left her after a few years which shows she is not a good judge of character. She also hates her job which also makes her a poor decision maker. I informed her of a payment scheme that would allow her to consolidate her alphabet shopping and with frequent low cost payments, she could even afford JKL.
But she can never have XYZ.

looking_around

saltyjack silverblade wrote: »

I frequently purchase XYZ as I am a single educated male in my late 20s with no attachments or responsibilities. Only yesterday I was telling a colleague how great my life was being able to afford XYZ. She, a divorced single mother of a teenager can only afford the ABC. But that is really her choice. Her husband left her after a few years which shows she is not a good judge of character. She also hates her job which also makes her a poor decision maker. I informed her of a payment scheme that would allow her to consolidate her alphabet shopping and with frequent low cost payments, she could even afford JKL.
But she can never have XYZ.

da fuq?

keith16

o1s1n wrote: »

School uniforms are a great way to put all the kids on a level playing field. There's no 'haha, look at Jimmy, he can't afford XYZ'

Except that they might as well be paying for XYZ if they have to pay extortionate sums for crested uniforms anyway.

Feathers

Ray Palmer wrote: »

So how do other people look at the belief school uniform prepared you for what work would be like?

I work as a web developer, so no My 'work clothes' are generally a t-shirt, jeans & maybe a hoodie. If I'm going for an interview or meeting clients, I might have a shirt or smarter jumper, but it wouldn't be seen as compulsory. In fact, I know a few people who have second thoughts when interviewing someone that comes in in a full suit, as they think they mightn't fit in with the work environment.

I work long enough hours, it's better to be comfortable to get work done, no need to be wearing a shirt & tie, it doesn't make you more effective (just like in secondary school!)

Mountainsandh

French kids don't wear uniforms at school, and the dress codes at work are similar to here, some with uniforms, some shirt and tie, some whatever you please. They don't all go apoplectic when they discover they have to wear a uniform to work in McDonald's, that's life.

They don't come out of school traumatized because they were slagged over their Carrefour shoes either. Actually, that rarely happens, people learn to respect and be respected for something else than their clothes.

Gbear

Mountainsandh wrote: »

French kids don't wear uniforms at school, and the dress codes at work are similar to here, some with uniforms, some shirt and tie, some whatever you please. They don't all go apoplectic when they discover they have to wear a uniform to work in McDonald's, that's life.

They don't come out of school traumatized because they were slagged over their Carrefour shoes either. Actually, that rarely happens, people learn to respect and be respected for something else than their clothes.

There was a little bit of pissing-contest stuff when I went to school there but it wasn't a mad free for all with everyone standing in a circle spitting on poor people.

If schools aren't capable of teaching children to not be ***** then they're not doing a good enough job.

--LOS--

I don't think uniforms prepare you for work life, but I was damn glad to have to wear them in school, otherwise I would have nothing to wear

Mariasofia

Depends on what career path you choose......







I suppose :-D

Mountainsandh

Gbear wrote: »

There was a little bit of pissing-contest stuff when I went to school there but it wasn't a mad free for all with everyone standing in a circle spitting on poor people.

If schools aren't capable of teaching children to not be ***** then they're not doing a good enough job.

Yeah, that passes really quickly. Our phase in my time was maybe, end of 6eme, start of 5eme, and soon enough, if someone was picked on, there were others to support them and bring them over the hump (and tell the baddies to f*** off back to their cave). That's how it went in my school anyway. No big deal.

I went to school like Cindy Lauper for a while, some of my friends were like Smith from The Cure, and others with loafers jeans and a shirt. Teachers didn't bat an eyelid (we were asked to keep the jean ripping to a decent minimum allright), and we all quickly got over the differences and got on like a house on fire. Still friends with some of them on Facebook. (in the 80s )

kowloon

April O Neill II wrote: »

Really? I had one jumper for the senior cycle (1999-2001), it cost 30 quid.

Yeah, and only available in one place. They cost a small fortune and were made out of this thick itchy wool that wore thin really quickly. Embroidered school crests don't come cheap. They could have gone for plain school jumpers like you could get anywhere, even sell the school crest separately if they were so inclined. I wonder if there wasn't some sort of special arrangement.

Kiwi in IE

I see very little value in dressing 5 year olds in silly, restrictive clothing when they are running around playing and learning. Would someone please enlighten me as to exactly what is the purpose of a tie? And why anyone would want to put such ridiculous things on small children? It's similar to insisting small girls wear high heals with their school uniform because that is the norm in the corporate world. They should wear comfortable, loose, non restrictive clothing. Forget about buttoned up collars and cuffs.

kowloon

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Would someone please enlighten me as to exactly what is the purpose of a tie?

Choke hazard, I think the idea is to thin out their numbers.

I remember its sole use involving playing Rambo.

Tin Foil Hat

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I remember when I was in school school dress policy was relatively relaxed compared to other schools. In saying that there were still some silly enforcements. While there are arguments for dress code revolving around stopping students getting into fashion show battles in schools that was never the emphasis in our school. They used to go on how it was a preparation for life. According to the school we would have to wear ties in work, wouldn't be able to have long hair or beards. Earrings were never going to be allowed in work for men etc... There was also talk about representing the school and uniforms made the pupils look better.
Of course once I started working none of these things were issues. So how do other people look at the belief school uniform prepared you for what work would be like?

Anyone who has watched Oireactas Report, been to an Irish wedding, or noticed the amount people who think that a supermarket shirt/tie combo constitutes decent office-wear will know that being forced to dress like a geography teacher for ones entire childhood is absolutely crap training for dressing formally in adult life.

Femme_Fatale

I just like how practical uniforms are - whether at school or work. Saves laundry and money. I don't read anything more into them.
And they're pretty regimented environments anyway, with a bunch of regulations.

I wouldn't agree with uniforms in e.g. college.

Tin Foil Hat

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

I just like how practical uniforms are - whether at school or work. Saves laundry and money.

It cost about €150 to to buy the uniform for my four ear old when he started school this year. We still need the same amount of normal clothes. So, it certainly didn't save me money.
As for Laundry, he still wears clothes for the same amount of time in a week, and gathers the same amount of dirt. So, unless I plan on having a dirtier child, it doesn't save us on washing either. In fact we have more. He now wears two outfits a day instead of one. And those woolly school jumpers are a prick to dry - especially in winter.

Femme_Fatale

Crappy synthetic 80s/early 90s school jumpers ftw - dry in seconds!

Tin Foil Hat

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Crappy synthetic 80s/early 90s school jumpers ftw - dry in seconds!

We don't get to choose 'crappy synthetic' jumpers (not that we'd choose those anyway). We have to buy what we are told to buy. That's kinda the definition of uniforms.

Femme_Fatale

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

We don't get to choose 'crappy synthetic' jumpers (not that we'd choose those anyway). We have to buy what we are told to buy. That's kinda the definition of uniforms.

Yeh I was being totally serious!

SpaceTime

If anything, I think in my case it did the complete opposite.
I ended up working in an environment where a lot of my colleagues are continental Europeans and I think in the earlier days they had *far* more developed dress sense than either your average Irish or British person of the same age and I would entirely blame the school uniform for that!

Tin Foil Hat

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Yeh I was being totally serious!

You'd be surprised at what passes for genuine opinion wrt school uniforms. I heard someone on the radio recently suggest that uniforms are a good idea because "They give children a sense of corporate identity". I puked in my mouth a little.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

I;ve never understood the point of a school uniform. Uniforms achieve absolutely nothing that a reasonable and inforced dress code wouldn't.

Tin Foil Hat

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I;ve never understood the point of a school uniform. Uniforms achieve absolutely nothing that a reasonable and inforced dress code wouldn't.

They achieve a sense of self-importance for the power-tripping, pencil-pushing desk-jockeys who would rather implement silly, pointless rules than spend their energies on the actual education of our children.
They are also handy for lazy parents who prefer to abdicate their responsibility to control and discipline their own children to a government employee.