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School uniforms and preperation for work life

Ray Palmer

I remember when I was in school school dress policy was relatively relaxed compared to other schools. In saying that there were still some silly enforcements. While there are arguments for dress code revolving around stopping students getting into fashion show battles in schools that was never the emphasis in our school. They used to go on how it was a preparation for life. According to the school we would have to wear ties in work, wouldn't be able to have long hair or beards. Earrings were never going to be allowed in work for men etc... There was also talk about representing the school and uniforms made the pupils look better.
Of course once I started working none of these things were issues. So how do other people look at the belief school uniform prepared you for what work would be like?

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keith16

o1s1n wrote: »

School uniforms are a great way to put all the kids on a level playing field. There's no 'haha, look at Jimmy, he can't afford XYZ'

Except that they might as well be paying for XYZ if they have to pay extortionate sums for crested uniforms anyway.

Feathers

Ray Palmer wrote: »

So how do other people look at the belief school uniform prepared you for what work would be like?

I work as a web developer, so no

My 'work clothes' are generally a t-shirt, jeans & maybe a hoodie. If I'm going for an interview or meeting clients, I might have a shirt or smarter jumper, but it wouldn't be seen as compulsory. In fact, I know a few people who have second thoughts when interviewing someone that comes in in a full suit, as they think they mightn't fit in with the work environment.

I work long enough hours, it's better to be comfortable to get work done, no need to be wearing a shirt & tie, it doesn't make you more effective (just like in secondary school!)

Mountainsandh

French kids don't wear uniforms at school, and the dress codes at work are similar to here, some with uniforms, some shirt and tie, some whatever you please. They don't all go apoplectic when they discover they have to wear a uniform to work in McDonald's, that's life.

They don't come out of school traumatized because they were slagged over their Carrefour shoes either. Actually, that rarely happens, people learn to respect and be respected for something else than their clothes.

Gbear

Mountainsandh wrote: »

French kids don't wear uniforms at school, and the dress codes at work are similar to here, some with uniforms, some shirt and tie, some whatever you please. They don't all go apoplectic when they discover they have to wear a uniform to work in McDonald's, that's life.

They don't come out of school traumatized because they were slagged over their Carrefour shoes either. Actually, that rarely happens, people learn to respect and be respected for something else than their clothes.

There was a little bit of pissing-contest stuff when I went to school there but it wasn't a mad free for all with everyone standing in a circle spitting on poor people.

If schools aren't capable of teaching children to not be ***** then they're not doing a good enough job.

--LOS--

I don't think uniforms prepare you for work life, but I was damn glad to have to wear them in school, otherwise I would have nothing to wear

Mariasofia

Depends on what career path you choose......

I suppose :-D

Mountainsandh

Gbear wrote: »

There was a little bit of pissing-contest stuff when I went to school there but it wasn't a mad free for all with everyone standing in a circle spitting on poor people.

If schools aren't capable of teaching children to not be ***** then they're not doing a good enough job.

Yeah, that passes really quickly. Our phase in my time was maybe, end of 6eme, start of 5eme, and soon enough, if someone was picked on, there were others to support them and bring them over the hump (and tell the baddies to f*** off back to their cave). That's how it went in my school anyway. No big deal.

I went to school like Cindy Lauper for a while, some of my friends were like Smith from The Cure, and others with loafers jeans and a shirt. Teachers didn't bat an eyelid (we were asked to keep the jean ripping to a decent minimum allright), and we all quickly got over the differences and got on like a house on fire. Still friends with some of them on Facebook. (in the 80s

)

kowloon

April O Neill II wrote: »

Really? I had one jumper for the senior cycle (1999-2001), it cost 30 quid.

Yeah, and only available in one place. They cost a small fortune and were made out of this thick itchy wool that wore thin really quickly. Embroidered school crests don't come cheap. They could have gone for plain school jumpers like you could get anywhere, even sell the school crest separately if they were so inclined. I wonder if there wasn't some sort of special arrangement.

Kiwi in IE

I see very little value in dressing 5 year olds in silly, restrictive clothing when they are running around playing and learning. Would someone please enlighten me as to exactly what is the purpose of a tie? And why anyone would want to put such ridiculous things on small children? It's similar to insisting small girls wear high heals with their school uniform because that is the norm in the corporate world. They should wear comfortable, loose, non restrictive clothing. Forget about buttoned up collars and cuffs.

kowloon

Kiwi in IE wrote: »

Would someone please enlighten me as to exactly what is the purpose of a tie?

Choke hazard, I think the idea is to thin out their numbers.

I remember its sole use involving playing Rambo.

Tin Foil Hat

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I remember when I was in school school dress policy was relatively relaxed compared to other schools. In saying that there were still some silly enforcements. While there are arguments for dress code revolving around stopping students getting into fashion show battles in schools that was never the emphasis in our school. They used to go on how it was a preparation for life. According to the school we would have to wear ties in work, wouldn't be able to have long hair or beards. Earrings were never going to be allowed in work for men etc... There was also talk about representing the school and uniforms made the pupils look better.
Of course once I started working none of these things were issues. So how do other people look at the belief school uniform prepared you for what work would be like?

Anyone who has watched Oireactas Report, been to an Irish wedding, or noticed the amount people who think that a supermarket shirt/tie combo constitutes decent office-wear will know that being forced to dress like a geography teacher for ones entire childhood is absolutely crap training for dressing formally in adult life.

Femme_Fatale

I just like how practical uniforms are - whether at school or work. Saves laundry and money. I don't read anything more into them.
And they're pretty regimented environments anyway, with a bunch of regulations.

I wouldn't agree with uniforms in e.g. college.

Tin Foil Hat

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

I just like how practical uniforms are - whether at school or work. Saves laundry and money.

It cost about €150 to to buy the uniform for my four ear old when he started school this year. We still need the same amount of normal clothes. So, it certainly didn't save me money.
As for Laundry, he still wears clothes for the same amount of time in a week, and gathers the same amount of dirt. So, unless I plan on having a dirtier child, it doesn't save us on washing either. In fact we have more. He now wears two outfits a day instead of one. And those woolly school jumpers are a prick to dry - especially in winter.

Femme_Fatale

Crappy synthetic 80s/early 90s school jumpers ftw - dry in seconds!

Tin Foil Hat

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Crappy synthetic 80s/early 90s school jumpers ftw - dry in seconds!

We don't get to choose 'crappy synthetic' jumpers (not that we'd choose those anyway). We have to buy what we are told to buy. That's kinda the definition of uniforms.

Femme_Fatale

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

We don't get to choose 'crappy synthetic' jumpers (not that we'd choose those anyway). We have to buy what we are told to buy. That's kinda the definition of uniforms.

Yeh I was being totally serious!

SpaceTime

If anything, I think in my case it did the complete opposite.
I ended up working in an environment where a lot of my colleagues are continental Europeans and I think in the earlier days they had *far* more developed dress sense than either your average Irish or British person of the same age and I would entirely blame the school uniform for that!

Tin Foil Hat

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Yeh I was being totally serious!

You'd be surprised at what passes for genuine opinion wrt school uniforms. I heard someone on the radio recently suggest that uniforms are a good idea because "They give children a sense of corporate identity". I puked in my mouth a little.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

I;ve never understood the point of a school uniform. Uniforms achieve absolutely nothing that a reasonable and inforced dress code wouldn't.

Tin Foil Hat

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I;ve never understood the point of a school uniform. Uniforms achieve absolutely nothing that a reasonable and inforced dress code wouldn't.

They achieve a sense of self-importance for the power-tripping, pencil-pushing desk-jockeys who would rather implement silly, pointless rules than spend their energies on the actual education of our children.
They are also handy for lazy parents who prefer to abdicate their responsibility to control and discipline their own children to a government employee.

hatrickpatrick

TBH the whole concept of a dress code in business should be done away with as well. Whether or not a potential client is wearing a suit and tie or a t-shirt and a hoodie really isn't something that's going to have a major impact on my decision to go into business with them or not. :rolleyes:

I really cringed when that whole argument about Mick Wallace in the Dail came up. As if the fact that they all wore suits made any politician in history any better than they already were?

Galwayguy35

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

TBH the whole concept of a dress code in business should be done away with as well. Whether or not a potential client is wearing a suit and tie or a t-shirt and a hoodie really isn't something that's going to have a major impact on my decision to go into business with them or not. :rolleyes:

I really cringed when that whole argument about Mick Wallace in the Dail came up. As if the fact that they all wore suits made any politician in history any better than they already were?

I cringe at the idea of Mick Wallace in the Dail full stop, he was a property developer, one of the people who got us into this mess we are all in and to top it all he wasn't very truthful about his tax affairs.

Back on topic though, I think TDs should dress in suits.

iguana

I'd find it very hard to put my son in a school with a uniform requirement. It seems like such a silly and unfair thing to do to a child. Thankfully Educate Together schools don't have uniforms and he very likely has a place in one.

Paddy Cow

o1s1n wrote: »

School uniforms are a great way to put all the kids on a level playing field. There's no 'haha, look at Jimmy, he can't afford XYZ'

Obviously hated them at the time (and loved non uniform days) but looking back they're definitely a good idea.

There is no such thing as a level playing field with kids. They know who's the poor kid and who's the rich kid. Making them all wear the same uniform won't change that. I went to a secondary school without a uniform and there was never an issue with rich vs poor.

Femme_Fatale

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

TBH the whole concept of a dress code in business should be done away with as well. Whether or not a potential client is wearing a suit and tie or a t-shirt and a hoodie really isn't something that's going to have a major impact on my decision to go into business with them or not. :rolleyes:

Maybe not on yours, but that doesn't mean they should be done away with. I don't think people should have to wear a suit, but I think a level of smartness to dress and some grooming is a pretty reasonable expectation.

hardCopy

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

TBH the whole concept of a dress code in business should be done away with as well. Whether or not a potential client is wearing a suit and tie or a t-shirt and a hoodie really isn't something that's going to have a major impact on my decision to go into business with them or not. :rolleyes:

I really cringed when that whole argument about Mick Wallace in the Dail came up. As if the fact that they all wore suits made any politician in history any better than they already were?

The clothes make the man. I wouldn't buy a thing off Mick Wallace.

the_syco

I now try my best to not wear a suit, having done so nearly every day for 13 years!

=-=

In saying that, they're great in the sense that it's one less thing the parents have to worry about. When little Johnny wants X Y and Z to wear as cool Bob has it, the uniform will work out cheaper. Also one less thing to be bullied over.

Also handy for separating the seniors and juniors in the smoking area.

Feathers

the_syco wrote: »

Also one less thing to be bullied over.

I don't get this argument — it's not like there are some bullies that only care about clothes, and if kids have a uniform, they just won't bother picking on anyone.

Bullying is an attitude problem that they have — it needs to be addressed properly by parents/teachers & removing one thing from the environment will just leave the plethora of other things in their lives that kids can get stick for.

It's a bit like if you had a fully stocked & available bar at a teenage disco & then decided not to sell vodka anymore. The amount of teenagers that will say 'I only really liked vodka, I'll have 7-up from now on' will be few & far between.

Paddy Cow

the_syco wrote: »

I now try my best to not wear a suit, having done so nearly every day for 13 years!

=-=

In saying that, they're great in the sense that it's one less thing the parents have to worry about. When little Johnny wants X Y and Z to wear as cool Bob has it, the uniform will work out cheaper. Also one less thing to be bullied over.

Also handy for separating the seniors and juniors in the smoking area.

Not necessarily. As others had said, the uniform can be quite expensive and parents can't always afford to buy the jacket or loads of spare jumpers. What's to stop kids from mocking people with worn uniforms or not the full uniforms? I don't think the kids care that much about what someone is wearing tbh. They're too busy figuring out who's a fake/hot/popular/cool/the list is endless.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

hardCopy wrote: »

The clothes make the man. I wouldn't buy a thing off Mick Wallace.

Clothes make the man what...?