Must you stay in your first programming job for > 2 years?

franktheplank

Hi all,

I'm six months into my first programming job in Dublin and it's going fine but for family reasons I really want to move back to Cork. I'd consider myself a good graduate programmer, very high college grades and a good work ethic. People say it's career suicide to leave your first job after less than two years.

What's the consensus here?

markpb

It's not ideal but it's definitely not a career breaker, especially if you're good.

rainbow kirby

I got my first programming job after 2 years of QA - had no problem finding a new job, and took a significant payrise, when I wanted to move to London to move in with my OH after a year.

Kikin

Can't see the issue at all here, it's only if you start making a habit of jumping companies every six months that employers may get worried about hiring you.

CreepingDeath

franktheplank wrote: »

... for family reasons I really want to move back to Cork.

I'm sure any interviewer will see this as a perfectly valid reason to leave a job. They wouldn't hold that against you.

dazberry

The issue is having enough experience at this point in time to get another job, hence the need to get to a particular level of perceived experience. But ultimately if you have something or can get something lined up - moving back home is a good reason to move on. As Kikin pointed out, a number of short term roles in succession beyond fixed term contracts could ring alarm bells in the future...

D.

The Corinthian

Employers don't like job-hoppers, so sticking around for something like two years is a demonstration that you're not one. Given this, it's an ideal, as someone pointed out, and if you go on to stay two years in your second job, even though your first lasted only six months, no one is realistically going to go against you for this, although being your first job, many may judge that six months may have not been enough time to 'break you in', so you'll be starting from scratch.

The only danger, of course, is if you don't last in your second job and leave within the first year (even if through no fault of your own), then your CV will begin to resemble that of a job-hopper; jumping from job to job and never lasting long in any - so be very careful before accepting your next job.

This not only applies to your first job, but is not a bad rule of thumb in general. Jumping ship in under 12 months is not something you should do too often.

jimmycrackcorm

It's not a problem as an employer will look favorably at someone moving to be closer to home.

mrnobodyfan87

Wrap up any project you're involved in and then leave

GreeBo

I'd be trying to get the new job *before* I left.
Its not a problem to move, but you dont want to be in Cork with no job for 12 months.

Fussgangerzone

I think if you're moving to a different you'd be all right. But then I've never hired anybody, so what do I know?

One thing you could do, if you're generally doing well in your job, is let them know about your situation. They may let you work remotely. Although you might want to wait until you're definitely moving to Cork before doing that, you never know if someone's going to have a funny reaction.

KevR

Don't see an issue at all. You can apply for jobs in Cork while still holding onto your current job in Dublin. When you get a suitable offer in Cork, you move there.

You're not going to tell your current employer until you have another job offer.

If you were to leave your 2nd job after another 6 months, that could damage your career. Assuming you stay in your 2nd job for a couple of years, you'll be absolutely fine career-wise.

bardcom

A pattern of moving jobs is a problem. Moving to be near a location is not something a prospective future employer would worry about.

The primary factor for career development in IT is experience and moving jobs within IT is very commonplace.

Sparks

TL;DR: It's your first job so no, it's not a problem, especially given why you'd be leaving.

INDSIKR: TC's right that you ought to demonstrate at some point that you don't hop jobs every six months, but this is your first role, not your seventh, and if you're working for places like web shops with short-term contracts, it's less worrying than places developing longer-term products with multiyear release cycles where they can't afford for you to quit and leave them recruiting three months before launch when you're the only one that knows how feature X works. I didn't stay in the same job for more than 18 months until my fifth role, for various external reasons. Didn't hurt me at all. If I'd been hopping every six months because I didn't like the manager's haircut, or if I'd left someone in the lurch, that might have been different (it's a small industry, and people talk).

You probably do want to mention why you left in the interview with the next lot, but consider it a good idea rather than a necessity, if you follow me.

And you really want to remember that if you're moving to Cork, you are going to be taking a pretty nontrivial paycut. I don't know why, but for some reason if you move outside the pale, the average pay nosedives (it's like someone's saying "if you were any good you'd stay in Dublin" or "shure you're in the country! look at that view! we don't need to pay you the 20% put-up-with-Dublin's-****e bonus!" :pac: )

ChRoMe

Sparks wrote: »

And you really want to remember that if you're moving to Cork, you are going to be taking a pretty nontrivial paycut. I don't know why, but for some reason if you move outside the pale, the average pay nosedives (it's like someone's saying "if you were any good you'd stay in Dublin" or "shure you're in the country! look at that view! we don't need to pay you the 20% put-up-with-Dublin's-****e bonus!" :pac: )

Cost of living I'd imagine.

Sparks

ChRoMe wrote: »

Cost of living I'd imagine.

Food's not that much cheaper down the country really...

bazkennedy

Sparks wrote: »

Food's not that much cheaper down the country really...

Rent

SpaceTime

If you're applying for jobs in Cork and telling Cork employers that you just want to be in Cork because you love everything about Cork so much and are leaving Dublin, you'll probably get a bonus and a hug!

I wouldn't worry about it!

SpaceTime

ChRoMe wrote: »

Cost of living I'd imagine.

Cost of living in Cork's pretty high. Rents are high, food's the same price, power's the same price, broadband/cable etc is all the same price.

I can only assume that there's less competition between employers for staff and they get away with lower wages.

ChRoMe

SpaceTime wrote: »

Cost of living in Cork's pretty high. Rents are high, food's the same price, power's the same price, broadband/cable etc is all the same price.

I can only assume that there's less competition between employers for staff and they get away with lower wages.

Right, but that's why Cork salaries would be higher than Leitrim for example, its a sliding scale generally.

Also the amount of employment available in the area will obviously have an impact. More jobs means its harder to attract good candidates, so you have to pay more and this pushes inflation up.

SpaceTime

ChRoMe wrote: »

Right, but that's why Cork salaries would be higher than Leitrim for example, its a sliding scale generally.

Well it's supply and demand.

Ludo

Sparks wrote: »

And you really want to remember that if you're moving to Cork, you are going to be taking a pretty nontrivial paycut. I don't know why, but for some reason if you move outside the pale, the average pay nosedives (it's like someone's saying "if you were any good you'd stay in Dublin" or "shure you're in the country! look at that view! we don't need to pay you the 20% put-up-with-Dublin's-****e bonus!" :pac: )

This is NOT necessarily true. When I moved to Cork from Dublin I was on the industry average for my years experience. I got three job offers in Cork. 1 was a 33% cut...one was the same as I was on in Dublin and the other one was a 5% raise. It is not an automatic pay cut to move to Cork...it will depend on lots of factors.

I know a few others who also moved back to Cork and experienced same kind of scenario. Only one of them took a pay cut and that was purely because he wanted the role rather than another one which paid more.

markpb

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

It's not a problem as an employer will look favorably at someone moving to be closer to home.

Really? I can't imagine why. If the OP was in their early 30s and moving home, an employer might imagine they were looking to settle down but that's not likely given it's the OPs first job. And even in their 30s, assuming an employee will hang around forever in an IT job is a fallacy

Freddio

Get a written reference when you leave stating they were happy with your input but the opportunity there is less than that in Dublin which is a fraction of opportunity in IT in other places like London or California.

Oh and if your not a risk taker, don't leave until you've somewhere to go

ChRoMe

Freddio wrote: »

but the opportunity there is less than that in Dublin which is a fraction of opportunity in IT in other places like London or California.

Agree with getting a reference, but WTF to the above?

Creamy Goodness

ChRoMe wrote: »

Agree with getting a reference, but WTF to the above?

I'm actually really confused too. What has that got anything to do with a move to Cork.

Draco

Many large companies (particularly multinationals) refuse to give official references and will just about confirm that you work there. Self same companies will demand all sort of references from prospective employee.

Sparks

Yup, it's part of the risk-averse mindset. Won't risk a lawsuit for giving a negative-sounding reference; won't risk taking on an employee without glowing references. Not so much a broken way of thinking as a childishly selfish way of thinking, but that's corporatism for you...

Freddio

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

I'm actually really confused too. What has that got anything to do with a move to Cork.

There isn't much opportunity in the country let alone in cork to walk into a job with only 6 months experience

Creamy Goodness

I walked into a job without any experience, it's what a degree is for. it gets you an interview, how you talk and your wits gets you the job.

Fussgangerzone

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

I walked into a job without any experience, it's what a degree is for. it gets you an interview, how you talk and your wits gets you the job.

If you keep your ear to the ground, you can meet your future employer before you have the degree finished. Can't keep them out of colleges these days.