What percentage of traffic lights ignore cyclists?

Iwannahurl

A separate thread is addressing the prevalence of cyclists ignoring red lights.

Since I'm a stickler for the rules myself (:)) I thought it might be worth discussing the prevalence of traffic lights that ignore the presence (and the mobility/access needs) of cyclists.

To kick off, I find that Galway City is well supplied with traffic signals that have been configured as if cyclists don't exist or don't matter.

Here's an example from this very day. While rushing in order to avoid being late for a childcare-related deadline, I came to this junction.

The light was red, so I stopped. As you do. There was no other traffic behind me.

I waited. And I waited. Then I waited some more.

I looked behind me to see whether there might be an induction loop, but couldn't see any*. Even if there was one, no motorist came to my rescue.

Meanwhile, motor traffic was whizzing by on the main road ahead (it's a narrow and busy road not known for its slow-moving traffic or its cycle-friendliness). Then my light went green, after approximately 3-4 minutes of deliberate but impatient waiting.

As I rushed onward, even more pressed for time now, I looked back to see what might have triggered the signal change. There was no car waiting at the opposing red light.

My guess is that the light changed on a timer, purely because of a momentary gap in traffic on the main road.

In this situation, the absence of cars for a brief interval appeared to be a more significant event, in terms of the operation of traffic signals, than the presence of a cyclist for 3-4 minutes.

Here's another set of lights in Galway City, which I know for a fact do not register the presence of cyclists. I have waited here at the stop line for several minutes on a couple of occasions.

Any other (better) examples of such cycle-hostile traffic signals?




* EDIT: just had a closer look at StreetView, and there are induction loops in evidence.

Eamonnator

There's one in Termonfeckin, as you travel from Baltray, that will not change for cyclists. Choice is either cycle through on red, or wait for a car to come behind you.

Spook_ie

You could get a bike that has sufficient mass of metal to operate the induction loop, no ones forcing people to go lighter and lighter or non magnetic frames

BTW Anyone tried theses methods?
http://www.wikihow.com/Trigger-Green-Traffic-Lights

2nd edit
http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/signals/detection.htm

Inducing Current in Bicycle Rims

Bicycle rims lend themselves well to detection by inductive loop detectors because they provide an excellent conductive loop and are located close to the ground where the loop wires are. By positioning the rims over a straight leg of the loop wire pointed in the same direction (as shown in Figure 2), the magnetic field lines around the wire pass through the profile of the wheels. The integral sum of the magnetic flux density across each wheel's profile determines the induced current around the rim loop and the opposing magnetic field it generates. The larger the area of the wheels in comparison to the area of the sensor loop, and the better the positioning of the wheels to intercept the maximum magnetic flux, the greater the percentage reduction in the sensor loop's inductance. Note that positioning the wheels at a different angle or moving them to either side from the wire reduces their effectiveness.

edit 3

Maybe become a window cleaner and carry a ladder around
http://www.vententersearch.com/?p=1594

Seaswimmer

Spook_ie wrote: »

You could get a bike that has sufficient mass of metal to operate the induction loop, no ones forcing people to go lighter and lighter or non magnetic frames

You could if you want to go back to the 80's and steel frames ( I am a fan of them myself) or you could spend huge money for a hand built modern steel frame. However with carbon becoming more and more prevalent I think an alternative solution is warranted..

check_six

I go through three induction loop junctions in the morning. I have to do the "lay the bike flat on the ground like a crazy man" dance every few days to get through them when I'm waiting without a four wheeler nearby.
Nothing like the one you described in Galway though.

slideshow bob

That first junction you mention takes ages when in a car too.

You have the patience of a saint. You have several options of course, some of which may be illegal:
*) take out your smartphone and post on boards.ie whilst you're waiting for the lights to turn.
*) become a pedestrian, press the button, await the green man, walk your bike over the road.
*) Jump the light.

Back on topic - the 'hook turn' of sorts lights for bikes on the new Westside dual carriageway are cycle friendly. But to be honest I've never used them preferring to stream with the traffic. Other than that I haven't found a cycle-friendly light in Galway.

Chips Lovell

slideshow bob wrote: »

That first junction you mention takes ages when in a car too.

So it's a traffic unfriendly light rather than a cyclist unfriendly one?

davidsatelle100

slideshow bob wrote: »

*) become a pedestrian, press the button, await the green man, walk your bike over the road.

Going from the Belgard road to the N81 early on a Sunday morning I have the same problem, most of the time thats my solution.

Darkglasses

While I would normally believe that buying a new bike is a good solution to any problem, not in this case. It's a case of crappy road infrastructure design, I don't think using a carbon bike should be considered the problem here. I'd rather work around it by walking across the junction personally, cyclo-cross or pedestrian style optional. I wouldn't do it myself, but I would have an amount of sympathy for somebody who did wait a few minutes and then cycle across the junction.

Fortunately there are no such lights in my stomping ground.

eyescreamcone

What's with all you newbie cyclists out cycling to nowhere in your pretend Tour de France gear, blocking up the roadway when I'm trying to get to an "actual destination".

If I tried to play football or rugby out on the road I'd be told where to go straight away.

droidus

Whats been going on around here recently? Every thread seems to have some mouthbreather butting in with this kind of nonsense.

Any chance of implementing a simple IQ test before you're allowed to post in here?

Darkglasses

General ranting about supposed cyclist behaviour not welcome here, thanks.

Any posts of a similar nature will be deleted with a possible warning/infraction.

Chips Lovell

Darkglasses wrote: »

Fortunately there are no such lights in my stomping ground.

Ditto. 8-10,000km of cycling a year and I've yet to be stranded at one of these famous sets of lights. What am I doing wrong?

seamus

There are a couple on my route, but the traffic volumes are typically high enough that there's a car right behind me or already at the lights, so I don't encounter it that often. I think I can count on one hand the number of times I've been left stuck at them. Usually when it's like 6am during the Xmas holidays and I'm the only numpty going into work.

FWIW the ridiculous suggestion of buying a different bike is no suggestion at all; many induction loops also will not respond to motorcycles.

Alias G

eyescreamcone wrote: »

The truth hurts your hemorrhoids doesn't it?

Groups of cyclists "training" for something are blocking the roadways for no good reason.
This is a fact!

You should just run them off the road. I mean you are clearly a far more important member of society anyway.

Darkglasses

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Ditto. 8-10,000km of cycling a year and I've yet to be stranded at one of these famous sets of lights. What am I doing wrong?

In fairness my old commute in Wexford didn't have much of any kind of traffic lights, I only met one set on my way home (none on my way in).

beauf

Not the same thing but some lights do have a very long change cycle. In which case a yield if going left, especially for cyclists might be a more efficient junction.

buffalo

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Ditto. 8-10,000km of cycling a year and I've yet to be stranded at one of these famous sets of lights. What am I doing wrong?

Try Stephen's Green east to Earlsfort Terrace - waited through two sequences of lights there last night before giving up. Usually a bus would come along, but I must've timed it wrongly.

Macy0161

The cycle only lights at the junction of main street - seapoint ave - newtown ave in blackrock, at the end of the contraflow cycle lane. They're a push the button job, but the cyclist never seems to get a green light - first few times I waited through 2 full sequences of the other lights and then gave up. Noticed it was modified a few weeks back (button repositioned to the other side) - but was left waiting through several full sequences again, before giving up.

Iwannahurl

slideshow bob wrote: »

That first junction you mention takes ages when in a car too.

You have the patience of a saint. You have several options of course, some of which may be illegal:
*) take out your smartphone and post on boards.ie whilst you're waiting for the lights to turn.
*) become a pedestrian, press the button, await the green man, walk your bike over the road.
*) Jump the light.

Back on topic - the 'hook turn' of sorts lights for bikes on the new Westside dual carriageway are cycle friendly. But to be honest I've never used them preferring to stream with the traffic. Other than that I haven't found a cycle-friendly light in Galway.

All on topic, since the configuration of traffic lights will influence behaviour.

Of course in such situations I am patient because (a) I'm taking mental notes and (b) if I'm caught breaking a red light it'll look bad. Jumping the red light is also not an option with kids in tow.

In the first situation I describe, I don't think pressing the pedestrian light would make any positive difference, since its function is to help pedestrians cross to here. There's no footpath on the other side, as you can see, so the purpose of the "pedestrian" crossing in reality is to help people get to and from their cars when doing the school run. (Perhaps a pragmatic arrangement, given that in many parts of Galway City a pedestrian is someone who has just parked their car.)

The new Seamus Quirke/Bishop O Donnell Road layout is not a dual carriageway, btw. I also find the jug-handle signalised turns on this route useful. However, your mention of them reminds me of one instance where the set-up is clearly not designed with cyclists in mind. At the right turn from the SQR/BOD to Rahoon Road (old view) the jug-handle turn is a few metres beyond the main traffic signals. Therefore a farcical situation often arises: if the main set of lights is at red, a cyclist rigidly adhering to the law must wait for a green before cycling a few metres further to the jug-handle, where more waiting is required to complete the turn. Meanwhile platoons of motorised traffic are merrily on their way.

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

So it's a traffic unfriendly light rather than a cyclist unfriendly one?

I haven't experienced such delays as a motorist at that junction.

beauf

Lights on lesson street out of town seem to be triggered by buses not bike. But since thats a buses only lane (sign) and a cycle lane (road marking) I'm not sure if cycles are meant to be there. I assume the logic is for cyclist to use the more dangerous baggot st road out of town.

Captain Havoc

There's a few here in Kilkenny, onto the Comer road at the army barracks, coming from both sides, right turn onto High St from Rose Inn street, the bridge at the end of the Kennyswell road is another one, I'm sure I can add to this when I think of a couple of more.

RobertFoster

I can think of three lights where I've been left waiting. Turning right into Charlestown coming from Finglas on the N2 heading north. Coming from ITT onto the Belgard Road. The bus lane on the Lucan Rd. at Woodies.

nomdeboardie

Macy0161 wrote: »

The cycle only lights at the junction of main street - seapoint ave - newtown ave in blackrock, at the end of the contraflow cycle lane. They're a push the button job, but the cyclist never seems to get a green light - first few times I waited through 2 full sequences of the other lights and then gave up. Noticed it was modified a few weeks back (button repositioned to the other side) - but was left waiting through several full sequences again, before giving up.

Strange - although i haven't been there for a few months I previously found the button-operated lights to work reasonably quickly. I actually don't mind having to press a button there as the contraflow is an advantage not available to motor vehicles (by definition)

ozzy jr

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Ditto. 8-10,000km of cycling a year and I've yet to be stranded at one of these famous sets of lights. What am I doing wrong?

Not sure where you cycle, but the crossroads at Johnny Foxs is one (turning right on to Ballybrack road, with the pub on your left).

Milltown Bridge, turning right to head past the Church in the direction of Renelagh.

Also the exit of my estate out onto Sandyford road.

There just 3 that jump into my head straight away.

Macy0161

nomdeboardie wrote: »

Strange - although i haven't been there for a few months I previously found the button-operated lights to work reasonably quickly. I actually don't mind having to press a button there as the contraflow is an advantage not available to motor vehicles (by definition)

I don't have an issue with it being push button, and I wouldn't have a problem waiting and using it if it was in the sequence, but it doesn't appear to be. Only time they've changed when I was waiting was when a pedestrian was using the crossing on seapoint ave.

Woodround

nomdeboardie wrote: »

Strange - although i haven't been there for a few months I previously found the button-operated lights to work reasonably quickly. I actually don't mind having to press a button there as the contraflow is an advantage not available to motor vehicles (by definition)

Same as that, I cycle it 5 mornings a week. Came that route this morning and i find those lights one of the better sets.

Gongoozler

An odd one for you - the lights at the top of Grafton Street. I was stopped at them one day as they were on green for pedestrians. I waited and waited. I would have timed it only for I wasn't expecting it. I'd estimate i waited about 2.5 mins until a taxi came up behind me and they changed.

Not one you'll come across often given the traffic of the area, but it's a bloody long wait when you do.

slideshow bob

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I don't think pressing the pedestrian light would make any positive difference, since its function is to help pedestrians cross to here.

You might be right, but I'm fairly sure the pedestrian green on that junction puts all traffic lights red. So the option is there to press the button, walk up the left footpath to Taylor's Hill and cross there. Works well for cutting in through Highfield, although less so for the trip down Taylors.

Macy0161

Woodround wrote: »

Same as that, I cycle it 5 mornings a week. Came that route this morning and i find those lights one of the better sets.

Off to start a new thread - What percentage of traffic lights ignore Macy

Woodround

Macy0161

Woodround wrote: »

They seem to work for everyone else except me! Lame attempt at a joke...

buffalo

Gongoozler wrote: »

An odd one for you - the lights at the top of Grafton Street. I was stopped at them one day as they were on green for pedestrians. I waited and waited. I would have timed it only for I wasn't expecting it. I'd estimate i waited about 2.5 mins until a taxi came up behind me and they changed.

Not one you'll come across often given the traffic of the area, but it's a bloody long wait when you do.

The top or the bottom of Grafton St?

beauf

I assume its the one at the entrance to stephen green its a long green for pedestrians. Annoyingly cars queue single file where theres room for two cars to get through at a time. Very short green for cars (and bikes)

Chips Lovell

ozzy jr wrote: »

Not sure where you cycle, but the crossroads at Johnny Foxs is one (turning right on to Ballybrack road, with the pub on your left).

Regularly go through that junction. Never happened to me.

beauf wrote: »

I assume its the one at the entrance to stephen green its a long green for pedestrians. Annoyingly cars queue single file where theres room for two cars to get through at a time. Very short green for cars (and bikes)

Yes, it's a short green for all traffic on that one.

Gongoozler

As I said, the top of Grafton Street. As you're going on to Suffolk St.

buffalo

Gongoozler wrote: »

As I said, the top of Grafton Street. As you're going on to Suffolk St.

That's the bottom. </pedant>

Doctor Bob

buffalo wrote: »

That's the bottom. </pedant>

Geographical top, elevational bottom?

beauf wrote: »

I assume its the one at the entrance to stephen green its a long green for pedestrians. Annoyingly cars queue single file where theres room for two cars to get through at a time. Very short green for cars (and bikes)

There might be space for cars to queue side by side, but they're both aiming for the same one lane. It's a classic DCC device- double up at the stop line and let the users sort themselves out once they've crossed it. But it won't last for long as the Luas Cross City works will turn that area on its head.

On topic- the east end of Eglinton Road in Donnybrook doesn't detect cyclists, but as with others it's only apparent in the wee small hours. An additional problem at that junction is the lack of east-west pedestrian crossings on the N11, so even the option to cross as a pedestrian isn't available.

ozzy jr

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Regularly go through that junction. Never happened to me.

From which side though? It just happens on the side where you come down the hill towards the pub. There's no problems coming from the other sides.

Gongoozler

Never understood the top/bottom of streets are others seem to, so just call that the top as it's what's I've heard everyone else refer to it as. I would always call the top as it looks on a map, North wise

Chips Lovell

ozzy jr wrote: »

From which side though? It just happens on the side where you come down the hill towards the pub. There's no problems coming from the other sides.

I'd be most frequently coming from the side you mention.

ozzy jr

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I'd be most frequently coming from the side you mention.

Strange, it never changes for me there.

RayCun

Gongoozler wrote: »

Never understood the top/bottom of streets are others seem to, so just call that the top as it's what's I've heard everyone else refer to it as. I would always call the top as it looks on a map, North wise

Dublin streets go down to the river, and down to the sea

buffalo

RayCun wrote: »

Dublin streets go down to the river, and down to the sea

Exactly. Same with Upper/Lower, all depends on the river basin. So the bottom of Grafton St is the northern end, but the bottom of O'Connell St is the southern end.

Ignore the canals, they're ****.

beauf

Doctor Bob wrote: »

There might be space for cars to queue side by side, but they're both aiming for the same one lane. ....

At least you'd get twice the throughput before you have to merge.

People from northern counties saying up to Dublin just wrecks my head.

Grafton st is uphill to my mind.

Spook_ie

beauf wrote: »

At least you'd get twice the throughput before you have to merge.

People from northern counties saying up to Dublin just wrecks my head.

Grafton st is uphill to my mind.

Old hang back to railways, the up line being the line to Dublin

Why Up and Down?
<snipped>

It's simply a remnant of history. Railways were first introduced in the 18th century to help get coal from mines. Wagons, with their wheels running on specially laid tracks, were pulled by men or horses from the mine to the shipping point. The bulk of coal was sent by sea because roads were so bad.

Tracks were laid from mines to docks. Normally, the mines were inland and higher than sea level, so the coal was transported down to sea level where the docks were. Thus, the direction away from the mine became known as "down" and the return trip as "up". Now, "down" is the track leading away from the main terminus (usually London), while the "up" track is towards London.

<snipped>

http://railway-technical.blogspot.ie/2011/08/why-up-and-down.html


Re Grafton St. surely only uphill in one direction, downhill in the other

Situated on the south side of the River Liffey, Grafton Street is beyond compare when it comes to shopping in Dublin. The street is pedestrian only for much of its length which stretches from St Stephen’s Green to College Green. There is a slight gradient uphill as you walk towards St Stephen’s Green with shops of all description on either side.

http://www.malonecarrental.com/aboutgraftonstreet.php

Doctor Bob

beauf wrote: »

At least you'd get twice the throughput before you have to merge.

I'm not sure I'd agree. I use that junction a couple of times a week at least (and always stop at the red), and it's tricky enough dealing with a single queue of cars attempting to overtake me on the bend approaching Surgeons without the added hassle of two lines of cars trying to get the jump on each other.

It's not as if this is a major junction in the city either- it leads to a car park and a very narrow laneway.

I've no problem with the principle of providing for vehicular capacity in a managed way, but it should never be done at the expense of the safety of other road users.

beauf

TBH its not on the route I use as a cyclist. I wasn't thinking of it from that perspective.

I dunno about major junction. But its very busy because its an escape route for cars going around Stephens green. Otherwise they are swept back into the one way system in the other direction (out of town). And they've entered it a long way back at the corner of Harcourt Street. The only alternative is down Westland row, or back all the way to cuffe street.

Not sure how you get here. Unless you work on the green it would seem exiting via cuffe street would be your route.

radia

buffalo wrote: »

Try Stephen's Green east to Earlsfort Terrace - waited through two sequences of lights there last night before giving up. Usually a bus would come along, but I must've timed it wrongly.

Yes, that one's now a complete pain for me, because I regularly cycle that way at hours when there is virtually no motorised traffic.
It's made all the more annoying by the fact that it used to be sensitive enough to detect a bike if you cycled anywhere in the lane, unlike some other junctions where you need to cycle along the tar lines where the loop was inserted.

Iwannahurl

Another traffic signal in Galway to add to the list, this one in the Claddagh.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=87892311&postcount=40