Bob Dylan charged with a hate crime by the French

Temaz

Quite laughable really. I see nothing wrong in what he said.

Bob Dylan has been charged with incitement to hatred in France following comments he made about Croatians in a recent interview.

Dylan's quotes came in response to a question about whether he sees parallels between Civil War-era America and the US of today. "It's like . . . the United States burned and destroyed itself for the sake of slavery. The USA wouldn't give it up. It had to be grinded out. The whole system had to be ripped out with force. A lot of killing. What, like, 500,000 people? A lot of destruction to end slavery. And that's what it really was all about," he replied.

He continued: "This country is just too ****ed up about colour. It's a distraction. People at each other's throats just because they are of a different colour. It's the height of insanity, and it will hold any nation back – or any neighbourhood back. Or any anything back. Blacks know that some whites didn't want to give up slavery – that if they had their way, they would still be under the yoke, and they can't pretend they don't know that.

"If you got a slave master or Klan in your blood, blacks can sense that. That stuff lingers to this day. Just like Jews can sense Nazi blood and the Serbs can sense Croatian blood."

Read more at http://www.nme.com/news/bob-dylan/74194#f9GO3l0CP4pX3Tte.99

Femme_Fatale

Bit inflammatory but hate crime?

Why are French authorities for such matters seemingly of the view that Croatia has an innocent history towards Serbs too? Bizarre...

Duck's hoop

I always thought the Serbs were the baddies in that affair.

Has that all been revised and I'm now totally unwith it?

El Guapo!

"If you got a slave master or Klan in your blood, blacks can sense that. That stuff lingers to this day. Just like Jews can sense Nazi blood and the Serbs can sense Croatian blood."

Sorry, Bob, but you're batshít crazy.

Banjo String

Temaz wrote: »

Quite laughable really. I see nothing wrong in what he said

What about:

"If you got a slave master or Klan in your blood, blacks can sense that. That stuff lingers to this day. Just like Jews can sense Nazi blood and the Serbs can sense Croatian blood."

Jews blacks and serbs probably don't have a sixth sense.

Femme_Fatale

Duck's hoop wrote: »

I always thought the Serbs were the baddies in that affair.

Has that all been revised and I'm now totally unwith it?

Think the 90s conflict was due in part to Croats being baddies to Serbs prior to that. No doubt someone will come along to tell us how ignorant we are though.

Edit - here we are:

The Croats spent centuries under the Austro-Hungarian empire and their Catholicism and Central European outlook were equally important in shaping their identity. They resented the fact that the first Yugoslav state, which lasted from 1918-1941, was to a great extent Serbia writ large, with a Serbian king and army and a Serb- dominated political system.

When the Nazis dismembered Yugoslavia in 1941, they created a fascist puppet state of Croatia, which incorporated most of Bosnia. This state slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Serbs and Jews. From 1941-1945 more than a million Yugoslavs died, more than half at the hands of each other.

force eleven

Bob got tangled up in bleu...

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

"If you got a slave master or Klan in your blood, blacks can sense that. That stuff lingers to this day. Just like Jews can sense Nazi blood and the Serbs can sense Croatian blood."

The same way a good Irish Catholic can sense dirty British Protestant blood??? :rolleyes:


Agree with him or not, he's not leading a Klan rally and whipping up support for a few good old fashioned lynchings. If people disagree with what he said, disagree with him, try prove his opinions to be wrong, but this seems like he's being prosecuted in a court of law and potentially facing a jail sentence for simply talking.

The thought police are everywhere these days. I'm going back down to my basement with my tin foil hat and my Rage Against The Machine CDs.

Carlos Orange

Duck's hoop wrote: »

I always thought the Serbs were the baddies in that affair.

Has that all been revised and I'm now totally unwith it?

Different affair, I think Croatia was an ally of Germany in WW2.

Duck's hoop

Femme_Fatale wrote: »

Think the 90s conflict was due in part to Croats being baddies to Serbs prior to that. No doubt someone will come along to tell us how ignorant we are though.

Edit - here we are:

Most enlightening, thank you.

Like a great many other oppressed people they definitely made up for it later.

Temaz

Banjo String wrote: »

What about:



Jews blacks and serbs probably don't have a sixth sense.

In a pub in London I met one English guy and I sensed some loyalist ideals in him from the way he was speaking to me. Thats what I think Dylan meant and I could be wrong it's just my personal opinion.

minidazzler

I can see why people would take what he said badly, but it's not inciting hatred at all. It's pointing out that it already exists.

Temaz

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

"If you got a slave master or Klan in your blood, blacks can sense that. That stuff lingers to this day. Just like Jews can sense Nazi blood and the Serbs can sense Croatian blood."

The same way a good Irish Catholic can sense dirty British Protestant blood??? :rolleyes:


Agree with him or not, he's not leading a Klan rally and whipping up support for a few good old fashion lynchings. If people disagree with what he said, disagree with him, try prove his opinions to be wrong, but this seems like he's being prosecuted in a court of law and potentially facing a jail sentence for simply talking.

And lets not forget Bob was part of the civil rights movement and even performed at the march on Washington. A racist is one thing Bob dylan is not.

kowloon

My dishwasher has a sixth sense.

joe swanson

Point of order. As far as i know (think it was bbc news)) he is the subject of an investigation and has not been charged as of yet

Muise...

Duck's hoop wrote: »

I always thought the Serbs were the baddies in that affair.

Has that all been revised and I'm now totally unwith it?

yep, times they are a-changin'.

Femme_Fatale

joe swanson wrote: »

Point of order. As far as i know (think it was bbc news)) he is the subject of an investigation and has not been charged as of yet

The man the authorities came to blame...

Seaneh

I think Bob is one of those super "special" brand of retard that manages believe that the Croats were worse than the Serbs in the Balkan wars. Comparing Serbs to Jews and Black Slaves when mentioning the problems in the Balkans is ****ing idiotic.

For centuries the Serbs butchered and oppressed the Croats, the Croats weren't exactly innocent either, when the Croat fascist state was established between 1941 and 1948 the military and militias slaughtered and drove most of the Serbs out of the country.

When Croatia was re-assimilated into Yugoslavia in 1948, the Serbs did their best to "pay back" the Croats for their actions in the 40's, right up until they (Croatia) eventually successfully seceded from Yugoslavia and gained independence in 1991.

TLDR, comparing Croats to Nazi'sor slave owners and Serbs to slaves in pre-civil war America or Central European Jews during Nazi controlled German dominance is ****ing moronic.


That said, the decision to charge with hate crimes for his idiocy is also retarded.

Seaneh

By the by, it's no wonder Dylan paints Croats as being as bad as the Nazi's, seeing as he's a rabid Zionist, so obviously any nation with Fascism in it's past is evil and should be abhorred and painted as the bad guy, even is that means somehow painting serbs as ****ing victims.

MadsL

Robert Zimmerman wrote:

Just like Jews can sense Nazi blood

Is this how come he never did a South American tour then?

Wattle

Seaneh wrote: »

By the by, it's no wonder Dylan paints Croats as being as bad as the Nazi's, seeing as he's a rabid Zionist, so obviously any nation with Fascism in it's past is evil and should be abhorred and painted as the bad guy, even is that means somehow painting serbs as ****ing victims.

A rabid Zionist? Where are you getting that from?

MadsL

Well, the neighborhood bully, he's just one man,
His enemies say he's on their land.
They got him outnumbered about a million to one,
He got no place to escape to, no place to run.
He's the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully just lives to survive,
He's criticized and condemned for being alive.
He's not supposed to fight back, he's supposed to have thick skin,
He's supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in.
He's the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land,
He's wandered the earth an exiled man.
Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn,
He's always on trial for just being born.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized,
Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad.
The bombs were meant for him.
He was supposed to feel bad.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
That he'll live by the rules that the world makes for him,
'Cause there's a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac.
He's the neighborhood bully.

He got no allies to really speak of.
What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love.
He buys obsolete weapons and he won't be denied
But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he's surrounded by pacifists who all want peace,
They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease.
Now, they wouldn't hurt a fly.
To hurt one they would weep.
They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Every empire that's enslaved him is gone,
Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon.
He's made a garden of paradise in the desert sand,
In bed with nobody, under no one's command.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Now his holiest books have been trampled upon,
No contract he signed was worth what it was written on.
He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth,
Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health.
He's the neighborhood bully.

What's anybody indebted to him for?
Nothin', they say.
He just likes to cause war.
Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed,
They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed.
He's the neighborhood bully.

What has he done to wear so many scars?
Does he change the course of rivers?
Does he pollute the moon and stars?
Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill,
Running out the clock, time standing still,
Neighborhood bully.

Seaneh

Wattle wrote: »

A rabid Zionist? Where are you getting that from?

Songs like "Neighbourhood Bully", his real name is Robert Allen Zimmerman, he is openly "pro-Israel".

He confesses great admiration for the JDL and it's founder Rabbi Meir Kahane. “He’s a really sincere guy...He’s really put it all together.”

Wattle

Seaneh wrote: »

Songs like "Neighbourhood Bully", his real name is Robert Allen Zimmerman, he is openly "pro-Israel".

He confesses great admiration for the JDL and it's founder Rabbi Meir Kahane. “He’s a really sincere guy...He’s really put it all together.”

Fair enough it seems he is. Must say I'm kinda surprised but then when he converted to Christianity in the 70's he was pretty zealous about that too.

MadsL

Wattle wrote: »

Fair enough it seems he is. Must say I'm kinda surprised but then when he converted to Christianity in the 70's he was pretty zealous about that too.

He speaks highly of the Flying Spaghetti Monster now.

jank

Seaneh wrote: »

By the by, it's no wonder Dylan paints Croats as being as bad as the Nazi's, seeing as he's a rabid Zionist, so obviously any nation with Fascism in it's past is evil and should be abhorred and painted as the bad guy, even is that means somehow painting serbs as ****ing victims.

You are forgetting what the croats did to the serbs (and Jews) under Nazi rule during world war II. The croats were certainly not victims of serbs during that era anyhow.

The numbers of Serbs persecuted by the Ustaše were very large, but the exact extent is the subject of much debate and estimates vary widely. Yad Vashem estimates over 500,000 murdered, 250,000 expelled and 200,000 forcibly converted to Catholicism.[11] The estimate of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum is that the Ustaša authorities murdered between 320,000 and 340,000 ethnic Serb residents of Croatia and Bosnia during the period of Ustaše rule, out of which between 45,000 and 52,000 were murdered in the Jasenovac concentration camp.[12]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_persecution_of_Serbs

Seaneh

jank wrote: »

You are forgetting what the croats did to the serbs (and Jews) under Nazi rule during world war II. The coats were certainly not victims of serbs during that era anyhow.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_persecution_of_Serbs

Except for the fact in the very post before the one you quoted, I mentioned it...


Classic Jank post right there, classic.


And you're ignoring that the croat facist state was nothing more than a puppet state of Germany/Italy and not a representation of Croatian people at all.

Duck's hoop

I would have to say to call him a 'rabid Zionist' because he's Jewish, is 'pro-Israel' and expressed an opinion contrary to your own would seem to rather over egg it somewhat.

Pro-Israel is not rabidly Zionist imo.

Seaneh

Duck's hoop wrote: »

I would have to say to call him a 'rabid Zionist' because he's Jewish, is 'pro-Israel' and expressed an opinion contrary to your own would seem to rather over egg it somewhat.

Pro-Israel is not rabidly Zionist imo.

Being a supporter of the founder of the JDL is rabidly Zionist, imo.

BobbyPropane

Another ultra liberal Jew spouting rhetoric. No surprise.

I'm a fan of his music though

Femme_Fatale

BobbyPropane wrote: »

Another ultra liberal Jew spouting rhetoric. No surprise.

:pac:
Wtf?

Sulla Felix

psinno wrote: »

Different affair, I think Croatia was an ally of Germany in WW2.

Yup, and the internment camps were run so horrifically that several SS officers refused to serve in them while supposed to be giving the Croats advice.
Name a nation, and you can find some dirt on them.

Duck's hoop

Seaneh wrote: »

Being a supporter of the founder of the JDL is rabidly Zionist, imo.

He said he was 'a really sincere guy'.

In 1971.

jam_mac_jam

Oh wow.. so Jews are different from other people and have magic noses... oh wait. I don't agree that its a hate crime but what crap.

Femme_Fatale

Sulla Felix wrote: »

Yup, and the internment camps were run so horrifically that several SS officers refused to serve in them while supposed to be giving the Croats advice.

Yeh in fairness I've read about some absolutely mad sh1t that went on in Croatia under the nazi occupiers. Catholic church had some pretty shocking representation there too (not catholic bashing before anyone starts).

jam_mac_jam

Sulla Felix wrote: »

Yup, and the internment camps were run so horrifically that several SS officers refused to serve in them while supposed to be giving the Croats advice.
Name a nation, and you can find some dirt on them.

Yep, the Ustase, I remember a particularly horrific story about them collecting eyes. Not all Croatians were involved though so to say the Serbs can smell Croatians is a bit disgusting.

jank

Seaneh wrote: »

Except for the fact in the very post before the one you quoted, I mentioned it...


Classic Jank post right there, classic.


And you're ignoring that the croat facist state was nothing more than a puppet state of Germany/Italy and not a representation of Croatian people at all.

We are not talking about representations (no true scots man fallacy right there) , we are talking about the fact that the Serbs (and others) suffered terribly at the hands of the Croats during that period, a fact that many do not know as people think that the serbs always had the boot on the Croats. There has been plenty of give and take in that long war.

cml387

I've said it before... you never have this problem with ABBA.

NuckingFacker

El Guapo! wrote: »

Sorry, Bob, but you're batshít crazy.

Batsh1t crazy duly added to the list, current encumbents:totally fake mammies boy who spouts inane poetry to music acting the bad-a55 rebel while checking his share portfolio in his 5-star Hotel room and giggling at peoples misguided love for him..

jam_mac_jam

jank wrote: »

We are not talking about representations (no true scots man fallacy right there) , we are talking about the fact that the Serbs (and others) suffered terribly at the hands of the Croats during that period, a fact that many do not know as people think that the serbs always had the boot on the Croats. There has been plenty of give and take in that long war.

The hands of some Croats, he didn't say that though. He said Croats. It would be like calling all Germans Nazis. Calling certain traits as belonging to one nationalism. Its nonsense and the logic of a fascist. Ironically enough.

D1stant

Bob Dylan is beyond reproach in his lifelong support of justice for the underdog. If he is guilty of any hate crime, it is in his lyrics bashing against the system that these French Judges represent

"Liberté, égalité, fraternité" Nice one France.

jam_mac_jam

D1stant wrote: »

Bob Dylan is beyond reproach in his lifelong support of justice for the underdog. If he is guilty of any hate crime, it is in his lyrics bashing against the system that these French Judges represent

"Liberté, égalité, fraternité" Nice one France.

Nobody is beyond reproach

Sulla Felix

D1stant wrote: »

Bob Dylan is beyond reproach in his lifelong support of justice for the underdog. If he is guilty of any hate crime, it is in his lyrics bashing against the system that these French Judges represent

"Liberté, égalité, fraternité" Nice one France.

He sure was supporting justice when he gave a concert in china to a bunch of peoples party appartchiks and carefully handpicked "fans".

D1stant

Sulla Felix wrote: »

He sure was supporting justice when he gave a concert in china to a bunch of peoples party appartchiks and carefully handpicked "fans".

I have no idea what you are referring to (link it if you want), but Dylan must have given over 10,000 concerts. Do you think he handpicks the audiences? Or maybe he has a philosophy to perform to any audience? Its more likely the latter, The guy clearly does not do it for the money. And he does not preach hate. I mean talk about barking up the wrong tree here.

Sulla Felix

D1stant wrote: »

I have no idea what you are referring to (link it if you want), but Dylan must have given over 10,000 concerts. Do you think he handpicks the audiences? Or maybe he has a philosophy to perform to any audience? Its more likely the latter, The guy clearly does not do it for the money. And he does not preach hate. I mean talk about barking up the wrong tree here.

Well it would be my humble suggestion that playing to that audience was lacking in moral or ethical concern for the rank human rights abuses in the PRC. If he has a philosophy to perform to any audience, well, apparently that rates higher in his mind than other ethical issues.

D1stant

Sulla Felix wrote: »

Well it would be my humble suggestion that playing to that audience was lacking in moral or ethical concern for the rank human rights abuses in the PRC. If he has a philosophy to perform to any audience, well, apparently that rates higher in his mind than other ethical issues.

Ah I see so we are back to Paul Simon / Graceland / Apartheid land. (and look at the wonderful results of Simon ignoring the accepted wisdom back then) If you were to musically embargo countries that have human rights issues it would be a long sorry pointless list. Its a totally different topic to the one being discussed here though

Does Bob Dylan preach hate? I see no evidence for it Does Bob Dylan preach peace, understanding and justice? I see lots

Femme_Fatale

Never understood the benefit of musicians boycotting countries - all it does is further alienate those having to suffer under the regimes in question.
I would have thought that playing there is reaching out to ordinary folk who are fans, not condoning the regime.

Wattle

NuckingFacker wrote: »

Batsh1t crazy duly added to the list, current encumbents:totally fake mammies boy who spouts inane poetry to music acting the bad-a55 rebel while checking his share portfolio in his 5-star Hotel room and giggling at peoples misguided love for him..

You sound awfully hard to please.

jank

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

The hands of some Croats, he didn't say that though. He said Croats. It would be like calling all Germans Nazis. Calling certain traits as belonging to one nationalism. Its nonsense and the logic of a fascist. Ironically enough.

You have a point but logic of a fascist? Bob Dylan is a fascist now?

wow sierra

From Rolling Stone a few weeks ago:

Bob Dylan Receives French Legion of Honor

Singer says simply that he's 'proud and grateful' for award


By Eric R Danton

November 14, 2013 8:45 AM ET

Bob Dylan received France's highest cultural award yesterday in Paris, where the culture minister awarded him the Legion of Honor while praising the singer for serving as an inspiration to young people, the BBC reports.

Dylan, who reportedly looked uncomfortable during the speech by Aurelie Filippetti, said afterward that he was "proud and grateful" to receive the award. He's in France this week on a tour that includes a show tonight in Paris.

Where Does Bob Dylan Rank on Our 100 Greatest Artists List?

A previous bid to give Dylan the award had been blocked by the 17-member committee that approves recipients, reportedly because the rocker's opposition to the Vietnam War and marijuana use made him unsuitable. The committee reconsidered this spring, with the head of the group lauding Dylan as a "tremendous singer and great poet" in a letter to the French newspaper Le Monde.

Dylan earlier this year was inducted into the American Academy of Arts and Letters, and last year received the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the top civilian honor in the U.S.


Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/bob-dylan-receives-french-legion-of-honor-20131114#ixzz2mSmM1Xc5
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

Those French are a fickle lot. I love his songs - I think he is my favourite song writer. I hate that he makes no effort in live shows. I disagree with some of his politics - particularly in relation to Israel.

BUT I RESPECT HIS FREEDOM OF SPEECH FFS

Temaz

Sulla Felix wrote: »

Well it would be my humble suggestion that playing to that audience was lacking in moral or ethical concern for the rank human rights abuses in the PRC. If he has a philosophy to perform to any audience, well, apparently that rates higher in his mind than other ethical issues.

Dylan wrote an open letter on his website about the China gig.

To my fans and followers
Allow me to clarify a couple of things about this so-called China controversy which has been going on for over a year. First of all, we were never denied permission to play in China. This was all drummed up by a Chinese promoter who was trying to get me to come there after playing Japan and Korea. My guess is that the guy printed up tickets and made promises to certain groups without any agreements being made. We had no intention of playing China at that time, and when it didn't happen most likely the promoter had to save face by issuing statements that the Chinese Ministry had refused permission for me to play there to get himself off the hook. If anybody had bothered to check with the Chinese authorities, it would have been clear that the Chinese authorities were unaware of the whole thing.

We did go there this year under a different promoter. According to Mojo magazine the concerts were attended mostly by ex-pats and there were a lot of empty seats. Not true. If anybody wants to check with any of the concert-goers they will see that it was mostly Chinese young people that came. Very few ex-pats if any. The ex-pats were mostly in Hong Kong not Beijing. Out of 13,000 seats we sold about 12,000 of them, and the rest of the tickets were given away to orphanages. The Chinese press did tout me as a sixties icon, however, and posted my picture all over the place with Joan Baez, Che Guevara, Jack Kerouac and Allen Ginsberg. The concert attendees probably wouldn't have known about any of those people. Regardless, they responded enthusiastically to the songs on my last 4 or 5 records. Ask anyone who was there. They were young and my feeling was that they wouldn't have known my early songs anyway.

As far as censorship goes, the Chinese government had asked for the names of the songs that I would be playing. There's no logical answer to that, so we sent them the set lists from the previous 3 months. If there were any songs, verses or lines censored, nobody ever told me about it and we played all the songs that we intended to play.

Everybody knows by now that there's a gazillion books on me either out or coming out in the near future. So I'm encouraging anybody who's ever met me, heard me or even seen me, to get in on the action and scribble their own book. You never know, somebody might have a great book in them.

Read more: http://www.bobdylan.com/us/news/my-fans-and-followers#ixzz2mVCisgl9