Will I keep this updated?

MD1983

Monday 25th Jan

Swim
500m w/up
10*100m solid pull and band
10*100m paddles and pull
200m easy

total 2700m

Easy day today and only one training session

RJM85

...posted twice for good measure

MD1983

every post i make goes up twice even though i click it once!

mossym

Solid training, good stuff, keep it up, bodes well for the season

MD1983

Tuesday
Turbo
10 mins w/up
15*3 mins solid 1 min easy

15 mins hard (but not best effort) run off the turbo on my treadmill. its really convenient having the treadmill by my bike in the "gym" room, necessary really when i am living in the middle of the country and cant run at night.

Wednesday

AM

Swim:
500m easy
5*100m steady pull bouy
5*25m fast 25m easy
16*25m pull band hard
100m paddles hard
100m pull easy
16*25m pull band hard
100m paddles hard
100m pull easy
16*25m pull band hard
100m paddles hard
100m pull easy
300m c/down

Turbo later after work

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

MD1983 wrote: »

15 mins hard (but not best effort) run off the turbo on my treadmill. its really convenient having the treadmill by my bike in the "gym" room, necessary really when i am living in the middle of the country and cant run at night.

Same problem, so easy just to jump on and not worry about layering up to go outside.

MD1983

Wednesday PM
Turbo
10 min w/up
14* 3 mins solid 1 easy
10 mins c/down

MD1983

Thursday

run
20 mins steady
20 mins solid
20 mins hard

happy with how it went

Friday AM
swim
200m easy
2*100 steady
2*50 fast
10*25m band hard
3*400m pull solid
3*400m pull and paddles solid
200m easy

i was swimming really well for parts of the 3*400m paddles and pull so happy with that

turbo later, 3hr cycle tomorrow and a duathlon on Sunday

MD1983

Friday pm
turbo
10min warm up
10x30sec fast 30sec easy (first few are warm up)
12x1min hard 1min easy
5min easy

Saturday
1.5 hours easy turbo in a big gear until the snow stopped, then 1.5 hours out on bike easy in a big gear low cadence

Sunday

Did the Athy duathlon, 3km run, 24km bike and 3km run. Ended up finishing fourth.

Run 3km - 10.54. I didnt kill myself but did put in an effort, i think that might be 3.38 per km. Run started around a GAA pitch and then out and back a country road/avenue. I would say i was about 8th-10th into T1, not sure. First guy was in 9.31 so just over 1 min 20 down

Out on to the bike and it was the first time i cycled the Trek outside, i had it on the Turbo but its not quite the same thing, the wind was blowing quite hard from the side and the course was out and back on a main road that is pretty exposed in spots. Once i settled in I started working well and i was motoring along passing a few guys, legs started to clear from the run and by the time i was getting near to the turnaround spot i could see the flashing lights ahead and had closed right up to 2nd, i passed him just after the turnaround and started back towards town. I could then see 1st a good bit up the road and he was not coming back as quickly as the rest and he arrived into T2 ahead of me.

24km in 37.27. Bit of a disappointing time, best split of the day by about a minute though, maybe the wind had a bigger impact than i thought on average speed. no power meter as i changed bikes and need to change the crank across which i must do soon.

Run 2 3km 12.07m, what can i say that i havent said before.... i ran like an old man and i think it was slightly compounded by the new bike position as my right thigh was sore at the end of the bike, but anyway it is what it is and i finished 4th. overall there is a lot of work to do but after 4 weeks back training its not so bad i suppose.

Monday
swim
500m w/up
12*100m band and pull
12*100m paddle and pull

MD1983

Monday:

Swim:
200m easy
2x100m steady, pull bouy 10sec rest
2x50m pull bouy, 15m fast 35m easy, 10sec rest.
12x100m solid pull bouy band 10sec rest
12x100m solid paddle pull bouy, 10sec rest
200m swim steady.

Turbo
10min warm up
10x1min big gear, low heart rate. 1min easy
10min easy


Tuesday.

Bike:
10min warm up
3x20sec fast 40sec easy as warm up.
10x3min solid not all out 1min easy
3x3min big gear hard resistance 1min easy
3x3min race cadence best effort 1min easy
5min easy


Wednesday:

Swim:
500m w/up
16x 25m swim fast with bouy band 10sec rest
200m hard paddles bouy
200m swim easy
16x 25m swim fast with bouy band 10sec rest
200m hard paddles bouy
200m swim easy

had to cut short session as work took over


Run: Treadmill
15min building pace to comfortable solid
30 min faster but in that 30 mins:
1 min at 8% gradient 3 min 0% gradient
2 min 6% 3 min 0%
3 min 4% 3 min 0%
1 min at 8% gradient 3 min 0% gradient
2 min 6% 3 min 0%
3 min 4% 3 min 0%
15 min steady

MD1983

Thursday
Had a sore throat and headache, planned hard turbo was shelved for an easy hour on turbo

Friday
swim
500m w/up
10*25m hard band
4*400m solid p/bouy

stopped swimming then as took it easier after not feeling great yesterday

Run - treadmill

15min w/up
15 sec fast 15 easy *2
30 sec fast 30 sec easy * 2
1 min fast 1 min easy * 2
1min 30 fast 1 min 30 easy *2
1 min fast 1 min easy * 2
30 sec fast 30 sec easy * 2
15 sec fast 15 easy *2
5 min c/down

Sat
90 mins easy turbo, 2 hours out on bike easy

sun
1 hour 50 min run hilly

10 min easy swim

MD1983

Monday:

Swim:
200m easy
2x100m steady, pull bouy 10sec rest
2x50m pull bouy, 15m fast 35m easy, 10sec rest.
14x100m solid pull bouy band 10sec rest
14x100m solid paddle pull bouy, 10sec rest
200m swim steady.

BIke:
30min easy


Tuesday.

Bike:
10min warm up
3x20sec fast 40sec easy as warm up.
15x3min solid not all out 1min easy
8x1min big gear slow cadence. 1min easy
5min easy


Wednesday:

Swim:
500m easy
5x100m steady, pull bouy, 10sec rest
16x 25m swim fast with bouy band 10sec rest
200m hard paddles bouy
200m swim easy
16x 25m swim fast with bouy band 10sec rest
200m hard paddles bouy
200m swim easy


Run:
20min easy, 20min solid, 20min best effort 5min easy

Thursday:

Bike:
10min build warm up
3x2min solid to warm up more 1min easy.
5x1min hard 1min easy race cadence
5x1min hard 1min easy big gear
5x1min hard 1min easy race cadence
5x1min hard 1min easy big gear
5x1min hard 1min easy race cadence
5x1min hard 1min easy big gear
1min easy

Run, 20min steady off the bike on my treadmill.

Friday.

Swim:
200m steady
2x100m steady 10sec rest
2x50m, 15m fast 25m easy, 10sec rest
10x25m fast with band only 15sec rest
4x400m solid bouy 20sec rest
4x400m solid paddles bouy 20sec rest

Run:
15min warm up
2x15sec fast 15sec easy
2x30sec fast 30sec easy
2x1min fast 1min easy
2x1min 30sec fast 1min 30sec easy
2x1min fast 1min easy
2x30sec fast 30sec easy
2x15sec fast 15sec easy
5min easy

MD1983

Saturday

1hr 45 mins turbo, about 2 hours 15 mins out on bike, total bike 4 hours

Sunday
2 hour 10 min hilly run, short swim afterwards

MD1983

Monday
easy turbo - 30 mins

swim 3.5km as:
500m w/up
14*100m solid band and bouy 10 secs rest
14*100m paddles and pull 10 secs rest
200 easy

I think i am swimming better than ever, my body position is better, head and chest deeper into the water. Overall i am happy enough with the progress i have made since January. Diet needs some work though as usual

Kurt_Godel

MD1983 wrote: »

Monday
easy turbo - 30 mins

swim 3.5km as:
500m w/up
14*100m solid band and bouy 10 secs rest
14*100m paddles and pull 10 secs rest
200 easy

I think i am swimming better than ever, my body position is better, head and chest deeper into the water. Overall i am happy enough with the progress i have made since January. Diet needs some work though as usual

Is this feeding into a better kick, more streamlined? How do you find the deeper head position when using the pb? (something I've been working on myself lately)

MD1983

Kurt - my legs move but i get no propulsion from them whatsoever, the last time i did a kick set was about 3 years ago and i would literally go so slowly up the pool it made it pointless. the amount of effort i have to make to get forward propulsion from my kick IMO makes it a worthless tool for me especially in a wetsuit. i dont see my legs as a tool when i am swimming its more like an anchor! but i am getting on fine without them.

i think the reality is that with the amount of time that most AG athletes swim that any work on the kick for wetsuit swimming is just a waste, there is so much room for improvement in most peoples arms stroke that i think that is where the focus should be.

i know you are a proponent for kicking and that may work for you but i think for me its the opposite! judging by your times i suspect you would swim a little faster than me in a pool with no swim aids as your kick would win out but in a wetsuit i think i would be out in front and thats whats important!

i am more streamlined i think, i feel faster although i havent timed anything i have done in a long time, i had over 3km done in my first hour of swimming and considering all the breaks every 100m and the easy w/up i think thats good and faster than i typically would be for similar sets last year. i am not so concerned with times yet and i havent been asked to time anything yet

i think the deeper head accentuates the PB effect, its like having a giant pull bouy!

Kurt_Godel

Great answer, food for thought, and is the reason why I like reading these Boards logs.

I'm going to mull over this and reply later, its an interesting subject.

joey100

I get where your coming from MD but I'm not sure I agree. Could be a better return on time to spend it on the arms alright but if we looked at any of the other disciplines you would work on your weak part. If you were a poor climber you would work on this on the bike, if you struggled to maintain pace on the run you would work on this. The kick in the swim takes time to see any improvements, like anything in swimming, but I don't see there being a negative to working on it really, not the whole time your in the pool but a few 100's every time. Would only add maybe 10 mins to your overall swim session. For me when I take my kick out of the equation my body rotation and timing goes off. While the kick might not contribute a whole lot of forward propulsion to you how does it affect your balance, body position and timing in the water?

I can see where your coming from with the wetsuit taking away part of the kick in an openwater swim but why not work on what is a weakness and try and develop it. Even if only because you might end up doing a half or full some time in warm weather and the swim might not be a wetsuit, like Kona

MD1983

yeh joey i actually agree with some of your points. in the pool it clearly effects my body position, not timing so much or at least i dont notice that. its not that i dont kick when i swim, my legs do move, its just that in terms of forward propulsion there is nothing there, so maybe for timing and balance kicking does something but this does not need to be a really vigorous kick or a kick with propulsion or IMO a kick that requires kick sets

in terms of the other disciplines, i would compare a propulsive kick in terms of importance to say the ability to accelerate quickly on a bike up to speed i.e. its of limited importance to time trialling as you only accelerate a few times in most races so therefore if i was weak on this aspect i would not work it as its a very marginal gain for a lot of time. i think your comparisons to climbing and speed stamina are perhaps over stating the importance of kicking (at least to me).

but, look at you, kick seems important to you and you i think choose your wetsuit based on something that facilitates kicking (or i think you might have even cut your suit legs?). your coach i think focused you more on pull bouy therefore de-emphasising your kick and focusing on your arms (i think!)? so each to their own!

your natural reaction to a guy with a poor kick and poor body position might be to say kick more kick sets, mine would be to tell the guy to get a bigger pull bouy, concentrate on pushing your front end into the water safe in the knowledge that the correct wetsuit will help come race day. such a guys time is better spent on working on his stroke not his kick IMO

joey100

I would be the complete other side to you in the water, I think, I rely (or used to) too much on my kick, especially for the faster stuff. I've been trying to place less emphasis on it and concentrate more on my arms and am definitely seeing the benefit of it. No one approach is going to suit everybody and you seem to be having good times out of the water with the training you are doing, so it's obviously working for you. But like the way I have moved to using a pull buoy to focus on my weaker part there's no harm in doing a little kicking in your sets. I'd hate to see you get to Kona and have to drag them legs around the course!

Dory Dory

Not sure if you ever use fins for your kick when training, but you might want to consider them as they can be beneficial (and fun!).

MD1983

joey100 wrote: »

I would be the complete other side to you in the water, I think, I rely (or used to) too much on my kick, especially for the faster stuff. I've been trying to place less emphasis on it and concentrate more on my arms and am definitely seeing the benefit of it. No one approach is going to suit everybody and you seem to be having good times out of the water with the training you are doing, so it's obviously working for you. But like the way I have moved to using a pull buoy to focus on my weaker part there's no harm in doing a little kicking in your sets. I'd hate to see you get to Kona and have to drag them legs around the course!

i just spit my tea out my mouth, Kona for me, ha absolutely no chance!! nice dream but not a reality i think, certainly not this side of 40

MD1983

Dory Dory wrote: »

Not sure if you ever use fins for your kick when training, but you might want to consider them as they can be beneficial (and fun!).

yeh i have fins and used to use them and of course they are fun but they will only darken my swim bag again when i get to kona and even then id only use them to snorkel and look at fish

in any event if i was to do an ironman i currently think i would be out in something around 55-57 mins, right where i would want to be to get that big draft all the way around

ive been training with this coach 7 months now and not once has he detailed a kick set to be done so if it was in the set id do it but in any event it never arrives into the plan

Dory Dory

Yep! If you can knock out an IM swim in 55-57 minutes, then you certainly don't need our silly input!

MD1983

Dory Dory wrote: »

Yep! If you can knock out an IM swim in 55-57 minutes, then you certainly don't need our silly input!

no - i havent actually done one yet so i havent proven that, its only what i think i could do. all input gratefully considered

Kurt_Godel

MD1983 wrote: »

Kurt - my legs move but i get no propulsion from them whatsoever, the last time i did a kick set was about 3 years ago and i would literally go so slowly up the pool it made it pointless. the amount of effort i have to make to get forward propulsion from my kick IMO makes it a worthless tool for me especially in a wetsuit. i dont see my legs as a tool when i am swimming its more like an anchor! but i am getting on fine without them.

i think the reality is that with the amount of time that most AG athletes swim that any work on the kick for wetsuit swimming is just a waste, there is so much room for improvement in most peoples arms stroke that i think that is where the focus should be.

i know you are a proponent for kicking and that may work for you but i think for me its the opposite! judging by your times i suspect you would swim a little faster than me in a pool with no swim aids as your kick would win out but in a wetsuit i think i would be out in front and thats whats important!

i am more streamlined i think, i feel faster although i havent timed anything i have done in a long time, i had over 3km done in my first hour of swimming and considering all the breaks every 100m and the easy w/up i think thats good and faster than i typically would be for similar sets last year. i am not so concerned with times yet and i havent been asked to time anything yet

i think the deeper head accentuates the PB effect, its like having a giant pull bouy!

Proper answer after considering this...

First off if something is working for you then it's working, and so I'm just replying for the sake of discussion.

Benefits to kick as part of a tri set:

1. Get the HR up where needed before the main set.

2. Balance (most important). Dropping the head (in particular I find) leads to loss of balance, which a well developed kick can assist with. Otherwise the tri kick is all about balance in general.

3. Propulsion (minimal assist). Dropping the arm effort for 30 secs during a race, and slightly upping the kick to compensate, basically to take a break.

4. Propulsion (maximum assist). Being tri-specific, the swim is all about the draft, which is all about your ability to control who you draft off. Being able to sprint and bridge the gap to faster swimmers requires a strong kick.

I'm sure there are more reasons, and again I'd stress that what works for one person doesn't mean it will work for another. But the main help I find with doing kick sets, is its another tool in your swim ability toolkit. Like everything in that toolkit, you some times use it, sometimes don't , but the important thing is knowing it's there if and when needed.

(Having said all this I'm lacking in paddle skills in my toolkit and need to rectify that!)

MD1983

Tuesday

Turbo
10 mins w/up
3*20 sec sprints, 40 secs easy
8 mins solid, 2 mins all out effort, 2 mins easy
8 mins solid, 2 mins all out effort, 2 mins easy
8 mins solid, 2 mins all out effort, 2 mins easy
6*3mins big gear hard effort, 1 min easy
6*2 mins hard race cadene 1 min easy
c/down

most tortuous turbo session in recent memory. i feel really strong on the bike but i have no independent verification of this as PM not on bike

Wednesday

Swim
500m easy
5*100m pull steady
5*50m 25 fast 25 easy
16*25m band and bouy hard
200m paddles and bouy hard
200m easy
16*25m band and bouy hard
200m paddles and bouy hard
200m easy
16*25m band and bouy hard

ran out of time couldnt finish set, short by about 800m

MD1983

Kurt_Godel wrote: »

Proper answer after considering this...

First off if something is working for you then it's working, and so I'm just replying for the sake of discussion.

Benefits to kick as part of a tri set:

1. Get the HR up where needed before the main set.

2. Balance (most important). Dropping the head (in particular I find) leads to loss of balance, which a well developed kick can assist with. Otherwise the tri kick is all about balance in general.

3. Propulsion (minimal assist). Dropping the arm effort for 30 secs during a race, and slightly upping the kick to compensate, basically to take a break.

4. Propulsion (maximum assist). Being tri-specific, the swim is all about the draft, which is all about your ability to control who you draft off. Being able to sprint and bridge the gap to faster swimmers requires a strong kick.

I'm sure there are more reasons, and again I'd stress that what works for one person doesn't mean it will work for another. But the main help I find with doing kick sets, is its another tool in your swim ability toolkit. Like everything in that toolkit, you some times use it, sometimes don't , but the important thing is knowing it's there if and when needed.

(Having said all this I'm lacking in paddle skills in my toolkit and need to rectify that!)

all these points are reasonable Kurt, although i cant realistically see much of a break for the body in your point (3), i would have though the overall effort level would go up trying to kick harder to compensate for resting the arms. i get the idea of giving the arms a break but they are going to be resting on the bike shortly ;-)

MD1983

Wednesday PM

treadmill run with gradients
20min build warm up,
3 x (1min 8% 4min 0%, 2min 6%, 4min 0%, 3min 4%, 4min 0%)
10min easy

Thursday:

Bike:
15min build warm up
2x1min fast 1min easy 1 in big gear the next in race cadence
2x2min fast 1min easy 1 in big gear the next in race cadence
2x3min fast 1min easy 1 in big gear the next in race cadence
2x4min fast 1min easy 1 in big gear the next in race cadence
2x3min fast 1min easy 1 in big gear the next in race cadence
2x2min fast 1min east 1 in big gear the next in race cadence
2x1min fast 1min easy 1 in big gear the next in race cadence
10min easy

started with tired legs finished with strong legs!

Friday.

Swim:
200m steady
2x100m steady 10sec rest
2x50m, 15m fast 25m easy, 10sec rest
10x25m fast with band only 15sec rest
4x400m solid bouy 20sec rest
3x400m solid paddles bouy 20sec rest

missed 600m more of swimming as had to leave for work


Run on treadmill
20min steady warm up,
10x3min solid 1min easy
10min easy


Saturday.

Turbo

3hrs 45 mins steady, pretty boring session and knocked off 15 mins before the target 4 hours as i was fed up

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

MD1983 wrote: »

3hrs 45 mins steady, pretty boring session and knocked off 15 mins before the target 4 hours as i was fed up

Have you considered trying Zwift? Especially if you are going to be reliant on the turbo as much. Have been using it a year and find it passes the time reasonably well, also good for setting up your own structured workouts.