PCA/Fitness test

Shield

Deleted User wrote: »

But the numbers you're mentioning are ridiculous.

I have to agree with Testarossa here. Those are not weights that a non-lifter can just walk over and achieve.

I recall a good few testing out the free weights once, as they wanted to see how hard it is to bench press. The PTI was happy to advise on technique, and very few first timers could bench 2 x 20kg plates plus the 10kg bar, for a total of 50kg. VERY few. They were very nearly dislocating their shoulders because they weren't used to needing those tiny little muscles that help with stability.

Over 4 weeks, one guy got up to 12 reps of 20kg plates plus the bar, but it takes dedication.

Joe789

Well training has started. Bit of circuit training yesterday and a long run today to get the lungs open a bit. Ill do some high intensity sprints on friday - it feels good to be back at it!

Is the 3 mins 54 inclusive of 3 laps AND your walk to the push/pull with 20 seconds or is the time stopped once you have completed 3 laps?

I passed the RAF fitness test last year which was 9.10 on the bleep test and 20 press ups/35 sit ups in a minute. Obviously things didnt go to plan, im wondering if this fitness test would be more tougher?

Joe789

I agree. Most people when starting training are around the 40kg mark for 10-12 reps. Im talking your average male.

panini

The push pull has been removed from the test. For my training I've been concentrating on high intensity runs and sprints mixed with some weights. Fingers crossed..

Shield

panini wrote: »

The push pull has been removed from the test.

Confirmed.

There is no push/pull element in the PCA anymore.

-Shield.

ctaylorf

Can anyone advise as to whether people are still given a second chance if they fail the first time round now that the push/pull has been removed?

Catdog33

ctaylorf wrote: »

Can anyone advise as to whether people are still given a second chance if they fail the first time round now that the push/pull has been removed?

Yep apparently 12 weeks later and you get some extra coaching sessions

AA1234

Passed my PCA last week. Got medical letter yesterday. It's less than 2 weeks away. Things seem to be progressing quickly now. Can't wait!!

Goonerdee

Have they replaced the push pull with something else?

panini

I don't think so. I've my PCA coming up soon but I think it's a little unfair on those from our campaign who have failed the push pull in the past few weeks, just to have it removed for us in the same campaign.

It's not the first time the goal posts have been moved so maybe we shouldn't be surprised.

KevBo2015

panini wrote: »

I don't think so. I've my PCA coming up soon but I think it's a little unfair on those from our campaign who have failed the push pull in the past few weeks, just to have it removed for us in the same campaign.

It's not the first time the goal posts have been moved so maybe we shouldn't be surprised.

Imagine those in the first campaign, who got one shot at the whole thing. Now you get two goes at it and the push pull is taken out completely.

The recruitment process seems to be an ongoing evolving thing so, you can only beat whats in front of you.

panini

KevBo2015 wrote: »

Imagine those in the first campaign, who got one shot at the whole thing. Now you get two goes at it and the push pull is taken out completely.

The recruitment process seems to be an ongoing evolving thing so, you can only beat whats in front of you.

You're right about it evolving but at the rate the changes are happening there won't even be a PCA this time next year.

Missimoo

I recommend anyone who failed the PCA (from all campaigns) and did not get a second chance emails the PSNI recruitment email address asking for an explanation as to why they haven't been invited for a retest as under NI equality laws it is indirect discrimination. They have changed the goal posts halfway through one campaign and it's extremely unfair to people who haven't been givin a second chance. Either everyone gets another chance at the PCA or no one.

Catdog33

I'm pretty sure they are entitled to change between campaigns as they have done. And I'm certainly not aware of anyone who has failed in this campaign and hasn't been given a 2nd chance. It's not discrimination if you failed last time because the rules were made clear and everyone was treated the same

Missimoo

The rules have to be made clear prior to the campaign commencing. Where you told prior to applying that a re-test would be included?

Catdog33 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure they are entitled to change between campaigns as they have done. And I'm certainly not aware of anyone who has failed in this campaign and hasn't been given a 2nd chance. It's not discrimination if you failed last time because the rules were made clear and everyone was treated the same

loblaw83

Missimoo wrote: »

I recommend anyone who failed the PCA (from all campaigns) and did not get a second chance emails the PSNI recruitment email address asking for an explanation as to why they haven't been invited for a retest as under NI equality laws it is indirect discrimination. They have changed the goal posts halfway through one campaign and it's extremely unfair to people who haven't been givin a second chance. Either everyone gets another chance at the PCA or no one.

This is totally wrong. The retest became effective in campaign 2 and was never in effect during campaign 1. The goal posts for campaign 1 were never changed. To be in campaign 2 you had to compete a new application form and this is completely separate to anything that happened in campaign 1. Campaign 2 ran alongside campaign one in the early stages but campaign 1 PCAs were finished before any campaign 2 PCAs began. It's the same as any job application process where criteria are changed between jobs or recruitment processes alter after the previous recruitment process has been reviewed.

Missimoo

No one was advised at the start of campaign 2 about the retest. The PSNI changed it after an Acc daughter failed the test and they realised most females were failing. Candidates were informed at the start of campaign 2 that there was 1 shot at the PCA. I know this because I attended many information sessions. Candidates were also advised the push/pull was still an element. Therefore goal posts have clearly been changed.

loblaw83 wrote: »

This is totally wrong. The retest became effective in campaign 2 and was never in effect during campaign 1. The goal posts for campaign 1 were never changed. To be in campaign 2 you had to compete a new application form and this is completely separate to anything that happened in campaign 1. Campaign 2 ran alongside campaign one in the early stages but campaign 1 PCAs were finished before any campaign 2 PCAs began. It's the same as any job application process where criteria are changed between jobs or recruitment processes alter after the previous recruitment process has been reviewed.

loblaw83

I agree the push pull has now been removed which is odd but everyone who has failed is being given a retest without it so no discrimination.

Being told about the retest during the campaign doesn't matter as everyone in that campaign was given the right to it, again no discrimination.

The only way discrimination would have been relevant is if someone in a campaign was given a retest and another person in the same campaign was not but this was never the case.

KevBo2015

Missimoo wrote: »

The PSNI changed it after an Acc daughter failed the test and they realised most females were failing.

Do you have a source for this? I'd be careful throwing stuff like that out into the public domain without solid proof.

It's an ongoing process and a lot of females were failing and the policing board wanted the issue addressed so it got changed slightly... that never worked and it got changed again.

Its the nature of the beast and your best bet is to play the game, beat what’s in front of you. No point dwelling on the past in my opinion.
Everyones best bet is the train as HARD as they can and leave it all out there. I'm a hard believe in you make your own luck!

panini

Everyone who failed their pca earlier in campaign 2 will be given another chance without the push pull so there will be no discrimination.

MissWillow12

Missimoo wrote: »

No one was advised at the start of campaign 2 about the retest. The PSNI changed it after an Acc daughter failed the test and they realised most females were failing. Candidates were informed at the start of campaign 2 that there was 1 shot at the PCA. I know this because I attended many information sessions. Candidates were also advised the push/pull was still an element. Therefore goal posts have clearly been changed.

Not true it was advertised in the Belfast Telegraph weeks before campaign 2 first PCA's started that a second chance will be given to those who fail and also month before the actual test at the familiarisation session that there will be a second chance.

The part about the ACC daughter failing and then they changed the rules isnt true as i said above it was announced regards a second chance before the first fitness test happened.

Have you done your fitness test Missimoo?

Missimoo

ctaylorf wrote: »

Can anyone advise as to whether people are still given a second chance if they fail the first time round now that the push/pull has been removed?

It was the Belfast Telegraph that highlighted the fact that a re test to the PCA had been introduced after a Senior Officer's daughter failed it. The only issue I have is that if there was no information about a re test prior to the campaign starting and it was introduced during the campaign then it advantages the applicants in the current campaign and disadvantaged the applicants in previous campaigns (who thought the same standards were being applied) I only say this because all applicants in the 3 campaigns received No info about a re test before the campaigns started. The fact that the rules were changed after the current campaign had commenced indirectly discriminates against people in previous campaigns. Same rule needs applied to all persons or no persons until new campaign.

Rules need to be set prior to campaigns commencing and not changed and made up during it otherwise it is indirect discrimination and maladministration.

Just giving my thoughts and advice to people on here.

The keyboard warrior

Missimoo wrote: »

No one was advised at the start of campaign 2 about the retest.

They would not have foreseen the need to introduce a re-test, or inform candidates in Campaign 2 of the possibility of a re-test in May & June 2014 when campaign 2 opened, simply because the majority of people had not been called for a PCA from Campaign 1 at that time.

Looking back, I wasn't as fit or as strong last year as I am now and probably didn't deserve to pass. You have to chalk it up to experience. :rolleyes:

loblaw83

we were told about retest at familiarisation PCA sessions in campaign 2 so the decision was made prior to anyone doing a PCA in campaign 2. This means if the daughter failing is true, it must have been in campaign 1 and this led to a review and change of process for campaign 2 but she didn't get a retest in campaign 1. I would take that story with a massive pinch of salt and don't believe everything that is written in the papers!

Mop a top

Personally I think the whole process of retesting after a failed PCA and removing the push pull is exceptionally unfair to those who weren't successful in campaign 1. In my opinion the job spec hasn't changed so the entry criteria and testing should not change either.

I'll just be an absolute mare now and say count yourselves lucky, you could be in the position where you've passed the PCA twice and still get a Dear John letter. Remember you guys are all still in with a chance at a place in hotel GV, whether or not you pass it second time around or without the push pull element. Be thankful for that, train hard, don't underestimate it and if you fail take it on the chin cos you've no one to blame but yourselves and clock it up to experience.

Sorry for sounding harsh but that's what's wrong with this country as is evident with the "festivities" LET IT GO!!!! What happened with campaign 1 and the differences in campaign 2 are unfair but that's what the powers that be have decided. It's up to us as potential PC's to follow the rules and respect the decisions made by our superiors, just get used to it and if you don't like it or can't let it go I doubt a career in PSNI is going to suit you.

KevBo2015

what she said....lol

Stay Focussed

Removing the push/pull element does seem like lowering the standards even though potential new recruits will still be faced with all the same dangers in their day to day activities.

Allowing a complete PCA retest after 12 weeks would have being suffice to those who failed first time in campaign 2

Presumably there will be lower attrition rates as a result of the PCA amendments so those "fit"candidates sitting with AC scores in the lower 60's may find it harder to get in

Just my thoughts!!

WannabePC

I think that the removal of the push pull from the PCA and the addition of a retest is a bad idea. A retest if the push pull was still included would be ok but having both makes it much easier to pass. You'd have to be really unfit to not pass after 2 goes and to have no push pull to do either the pass rate should increase significantly. I don't think it's a fair on serving officers to have new colleagues along side them who potentially aren't as strong as they should be and can't apprehend a suspect. Just yesterday a female police officer was punched in the face repeatedly by a suspect attempting to flee a burglary. Fair play to her for not letting them get away, but girls and guys who are not strong or fit enough and can't pass the minimum required standards of the PCA shouldn't be given a place at GV in my opinion!

Missimoo

My point is the PSNI were not clear prior to the campaign starting that a retest was permitted therefor have changed the goal posts to benefit themselves meanwhile it's put candidates from campaign 1 at a disadvantage.

If they had have been clear from the outset a retest was permitted in campaign 2 I believe a lot more people who didn't reapply from campaign one would have. I personally didn't reapply for campaign 2 because they overlapped and I wanted to focus my energy on the one I had done well in. Looking back obviously that was a mistake. However if it was made clear prior to the closing date of campaign 2 that candidates were getting 2 bites at the cherry of course I would have reapplied.

Being told the perhaps a career in the PSNI isn't for me because I don't agree with a decision a senior officer made is unfair. There are too many nodding dogs in the police and while I do respect authority I believe that sometimes it needs to be challenged and this is a decision that needs to be challenged. I came on this forum to offer guidance to candidates who I feel have been unfairly treated. I didn't come on here to argue with people.

People are going to agree with me and people are going to disagree with me but I feel that the goal posts never should have been changed. However now that they have been its only right everyone gets a another chance especially given the fact that there are people who are getting 2 chances at the PCA having barely met the minimum standard from the AC and there are others who scored much higher at AC but only got one chance at it.

A similar situation occurred a number of years ago and they wrote out to all the candidates asking them if they were still interested in the career and they got a second chance. Don't understand why now it is any different.

HighburyLad

I can understand frustrations here, and I'm just voicing my few cents, but campaign 2 has been different from the get go, no IT requirement, IT was tested at the ac, the initial test was a slightly lower pass mark from campaign 1. They have taken away the push pull and offered a retest in campaign 2. Again this is a different campaign, don't forget the chief con has the right to stop any process even if it's about to select recruits, and has the right to dismiss anyone through the process without cause.

Campaign 1 was the first campaign done in a few years and done without 50/50, which was a totally different process with no pca at all. So I believe they are still finding their feet even in campaign 2, you may find that the next campaign that opens up will be different too. I understand frustrations, totally do, but things change through out the process to meet requirements the same way years ago they needed 50/50 to meet requirements. So it's all relevant. I'm pro pca with push/pull by the way but it's changed and all I can do is continue to train, and not fret about it, and look forward.