Alcohol ?

ricky_spanish

As far as alcohol goes which is the lesser of all the evils ?
I know its all bad but you cant have a normal social life without it.
Just looking for some advice on how to manage training hard during the week but not piss the hard work away every weekend and be back to square one and not seeing much gains.
If i was to have a guess id say stick to bottled beer or vodka and orange juice ?
any thoughts or advice much appreciated

howamidifferent

White wine or white spirits.

The_Pretender

As far as I know, clear spirits are what you want to stick to for weight loss ie. gin, vodka. Beer of any shape or form is usually going to be loaded with calories, most non-light beers will have at least 200+ calories per pint, possibly up to 300.

I read an article in Mens Health before about visualising the amount of liquid calories you're consuming. They had a picture of a pint of Guinness fillied with scoops of ice-cream, and said something along the lines of them having the same amount of calories.

runawaybishop

Spirits and a diet mixer is the best of a bad lot. White wine is crap, as is orange juice and beer.

rubadub

The_Pretender wrote: »

Beer of any shape or form is usually going to be loaded with calories, most non-light beers will have at least 200+ calories per pint, possibly up to 300.

300 would be unusal, only very high % beers.

You mentioned guinness, it is one of the lower ones, 170kcal per 500ml, so I am wondering if men's health were in fact raving about some low calorie ice cream they found! Also if you drink a lot they do not need to be counted the same. I don't pay much attention to alcohol when calorie counting, I do drink a lot.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/02/04/health/why-the-body-may-waste-the-calories-from-alcohol.html

For example, weight gain was negligible in alcoholics who were given 2,000 calories of alcohol daily on top of the 2,500 calories from foods they consumed to maintain their weight. But when the same number of additional calories were fed as chocolate, a steady weight gain resulted.

You cannot just compare servings, if your aim is to get to a certain level blood alcohol level. i.e. a shot of vodka is only about half a pints worth of alcohol. If you put orange juice in that your calories fly up, as orange juice has roughly the same calories as coke (a good fact for the people who tell you a can of coke has 56 gazillion spoons of sugar in it).

The_Pretender

rubadub wrote: »

300 would be unusal, only very high % beers.

You mentioned guinness, it is one of the lower ones, 170kcal per 500ml, so I am wondering if men's health were in fact raving about some low calorie ice cream they found!

It was so long ago when I read it that I can't remember it to be honest

I just remember it having a Guinness pint glass full of ice-cream and the article was in relation to the amount of calories in drinks. They could have just been using the Guinness glass because it's instantly recognisable as an alcoholic beverage.

link_2007

The_Pretender wrote: »

I read an article in Mens Health before about visualising the amount of liquid calories you're consuming. They had a picture of a pint of Guinness fillied with scoops of ice-cream, and said something along the lines of them having the same amount of calories.

And both are tasty as hell

runawaybishop

rubadub wrote: »

You cannot just compare servings, if your aim is to get to a certain level blood alcohol level. i.e. a shot of vodka is only about half a pints worth of alcohol. If you put orange juice in that your calories fly up, as orange juice has roughly the same calories as coke (a good fact for the people who tell you a can of coke has 56 gazillion spoons of sugar in it).

When you drink with a meal you are more likely to eat more too though, up to a 3rd more.

huskerdu

The obvious advice is applicable here

Drink slowly, dont drink on an empty stomach.
Drink plenty of water over the night and pace yourself.

Get used to having a night out with a bit of alcohol, not a lot of alcohol.

Work out what you want to drink that you enjoy and you can pace yourself with.

What i mean by that is that if you are used to skulling pints, moving to vodka and a mixer may not work
as you can very easily drink too much if you are used to a lot of liquid intake.

Alcohol is loaded with calories, as are most mixers. dont worry about the exact calorie comparison between drinks,
find out what works for you to make it easier to pace yourself.

runawaybishop

huskerdu wrote: »

Alcohol is loaded with calories, as are most mixers.

The diet mixers are grand though.

Duck's hoop

The calories consumed would be the least of it in my reckoning. It just negatively effects training on a lot of levels, from poorer recovery to just not giving it even 80% of what is capable the next couple of days, to writing off several training sessions.

There's a good bit of research on alcohol and catabolism and also how it negatively affects protein synthesis.

If you're into endurance training, it reduces your body's ability to deal with lactic build up.

Knock it on the head if you're serious about training.

huskerdu

Duck's hoop wrote: »

The calories consumed would be the least of it in my reckoning. It just negatively effects training on a lot of levels, from poorer recovery to just not giving it even 80% of what is capable the next couple of days, to writing off several training sessions.

There's a good bit of research on alcohol and catabolism and also how it negatively affects protein synthesis.

If you're into endurance training, it reduces your body's ability to deal with lactic build up.

Knock it on the head if you're serious about training.

I agree 100% . This is the basis of my advice above.

Learn how to go out and enjoy yourself without a lot of alcohol.

bootybouncer

Zero Alcohol

Paddywiggum

if you want to have a few drinks and minimize the effects then eat your last meal a couple hrs before your first alcoholic drink.

dont eat when you are drinking, or the late night burger/pizza/kebab after your drinks (easier said than done)

your body grabs the alcohol first and tries to burn it off, thereby any additional food will be shuttled off to fat stores as the body is preoccupied with alcohol.

say my maintenance is 3000cals, well i might have 1500cals in food throughout the day keeping protein at 1g/lb, then 7 or 8 pints of the black stuff bringing me up to circa 3000cals.

not very healthy but as i said, minimizes the effects.

Mellor

One point of note.
People are talking about sugar free mixers, low cal options etc.
Sounds to me like the OP is looking to put on weight, not lose weight. The sames goals with alcohol might not apply.

cloudatlas

ricky_spanish wrote: »

As far as alcohol goes which is the lesser of all the evils ?
I know its all bad but you cant have a normal social life without it.
Just looking for some advice on how to manage training hard during the week but not piss the hard work away every weekend and be back to square one and not seeing much gains.
If i was to have a guess id say stick to bottled beer or vodka and orange juice ?
any thoughts or advice much appreciated

False!

Evelyn Cusack

cloudatlas wrote: »

False!

No he's right, you can't

FTA69

You don't need to have alcohol to have a social life by any means; but that doesn't change the fact that the social scene in Ireland predominantly revolves around drinking. For many people, giving up booze will dramatically alter their relationship with their friends.

Snako

I have a cheat evening ever week, few pints, and then a few spirits, I deserve it!!! But it will certainly will slow progress!!!

But you gotta do whatever the f**k you wanna do

fat and slow

If you have a mon- fri gym schedule try do more of your drinking on fridays, instead of saturdays. Also get enough sleep after being out late, drink lots of water the next day and do a small amount of exercise on the following day.


Try and gauge the amount of alcohol that will leave you; fine the next day, hungover and groggy until lunchtime or completely sick all day. If you've had a heavy weekend of drinking, don't expect to set pbs on monday, maybe adjust your program a little to make it easier. You can tailor your drinking to suit your workouts or tailor your workouts to suit your drinking.

rubadub

runawaybishop wrote: »

When you drink with a meal you are more likely to eat more too though, up to a 3rd more.

When you are drunk you are also more likely to eat more afterwards. I have always maintained that most "beer bellies" are "post pub fast food bellies"

huskerdu wrote: »

The obvious advice is applicable here

Drink slowly, dont drink on an empty stomach.

Why not on an empty stomach? I hear that line a lot, usually to stop people getting too drunk though. It probably agitates the stomach lining more too.

Fact is many people drink to get to a desired state of drunkenness. Drinking the same units of alcohol of a drink (and therefore the same calories) on an empty stomach will get you to a higher blood alcohol level than drinking on a full stomach.

I know a guy who prides himself on this macho nonsense of being able to "handle drink" and drinks a lot. I pride myself on being able to do it on less. It turned out this guy was sneaking out of the pub and having sneaky burgers & chips, even full on chicken curries and coming back to the pub downing more.

Diet mixers are also meant to result in a higher blood alcohol level than drinking spirits with regular mixers, so if your goal is a certain blood alcohol level then you are reducing calories on both counts.

amazingemmet

I generally find my gym performance the day after a night out to be pretty good I've hit some definte all time rep PR's while hanging. I find the hanging feeling helps me focus a bit more.

Alf Veedersane

amazingemmet wrote: »

I generally find my gym performance the day after a night out to be pretty good I've hit some definte all time rep PR's while hanging. I find the hanging feeling helps me focus a bit more.

Mate of mine did the Goal mile one Christmas day in 4 mins 11 after being absolutely banjoed when I left the pub about 10 hours earlier. He reckoned the not being able to think straight helped him - he just set out running stupidly fast to see how long he could keep it up for.

rubadub

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

He reckoned the not being able to think straight helped him - he just set out running stupidly fast to see how long he could keep it up for.

Possibly still tipsy. I can run better after drinking, also did a fair few chinups messing about after a few.

Old school doping
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Hicks_(athlete)

Hicks would also have been disqualified: his assistants had given him a dose of 1/60 of a grain (roughly 1 mg) of strychnine[1] and some brandy because he was flagging badly during the race; the first dose of strychnine did not revive him for long, so he was given another. As a result, he collapsed after crossing the finishing line. Another dose might have been fatal. Strychnine is now forbidden for athletes.

To wake up grand I would suggest finishing drinking early in the pub and drinking water then (in the pub), long before going home. Its crazy to see people lashing into spirits when they are already drunk and the previous drinks have yet to take effect. If you stop and drink water you still remain nicely merry for hours after.

Alf Veedersane

rubadub wrote: »

Possibly still tipsy.

Definitely still tipsy.

rubadub wrote: »

To wake up grand I would suggest finishing drinking early in the pub and drinking water then (in the pub), long before going home.

A few people I know swear by a good glug of water and some Dioralyte after a session.

rubadub

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Dioralyte after a session.

I got for baking soda & water. The baking soda neutralises any acid in your stomach and turns to salt & water, then salt then goes on to act like an electrolyte like dioralyte.


http://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2013/02/when-alcohol-was-a-performance-enhancing-drug.html

There's no hard evidence to back the common assertion of alcohol-improved performance, but anecdotes abound. You probably can point to a few yourself. Most notably, in 1998 pitcher David Wells threw a perfect game for the New York Yankees while self-reportedly "half-drunk, with bloodshot eyes, monster breath and a raging, skull-rattling hangover."

In an article written in 2010, two sports psychologists somewhat humorously unveiled their Optimal Altered State theory:

"It is our contention that certain individuals--specifically, competitors who are average/good but not exceptional in a particular sport--perform best in competitive arenas that allow the easy consumption of alcohol (darts, bowling, pool, etc.) when they reach what we term their Optimal Altered State, or OAS. Now, clearly this is not the moment we see someone doubled over talking to the toilet bowl for comfort, or standing atop a building yelling that they know the secrets of the Woodstock festival. We are talking about that point--this may be one drink for some people; four or five for others--where you have consumed just enough alcohol to make you feel supremely gifted."

Gerry91

Snako wrote: »

I have a cheat evening ever week, few pints, and then a few spirits, I deserve it!!! But it will certainly will slow progress!!!

But you gotta do whatever the f**k you wanna do

I get loaded once, often twice, a week, for as long as I remember and am well under 10% bodyfat

I was 3 stone heavier 2 years back, lost it all- drinking didn't impair it one bit. I eat brilliantly, even when hungover (no fast food on night out even)

Alf Veedersane

Were you born in '91, Gerry?

Gerry91

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Were you born in '91, Gerry?

I was

Don't get me wrong I'm sure it won't be as easy keep it off when I'm older, but I was 15 stone and am now 12 and I lost it all while drinking fairly regularly.

Duck's hoop

When I was in my late teens / early 20s I just stayed at 77-78 kg @ 183cm while dutifully getting pretty loaded 5 days a week.

About 22 I got fit again, lean as but the same weight.

Youth is a marvellous thing.

Gerry91

Duck's hoop wrote: »

When I was in my late teens / early 20s I just stayed at 77-78 kg @ 183cm while dutifully getting pretty loaded 5 days a week.

About 22 I got fit again, lean as but the same weight.

Youth is a marvellous thing.

I dunno it's been pretty tricky getting this weight off believe me. I haven't eaten junk food in about 2 years, have given up chocolate/sweets/fast food completely. I was 3 stone overweight like. I'm a decent bit below your height and I was a LOT more than 78 kilos. I've the same level of muscle mass now than I had then

I've always found it tough to keep the weight down. It's been 2 years of hell to be honest. It hasn't just disappeared with a few tweeks and a bit of running. It's been painful work but Thank God it's paid off. Being "young" wasn't that much of a help to me sadly

I'd never give up my booze though

madma

Lost a few stone myself in the last couple of years whilst drinking an average of twice a week sometimes more. You just gotta increase your workouts and eat better and try not let the hangover and day of drinking let you fall back into bad habits. I find by drinking spirits its defo better for ya than drinking pints / cans of beer or cider.

Over summer I got down to my lowest weight in over 10 years and the summer gone there was alot of drinking with the good weather and it being summer. Again I did plenty workouts and ate well bar all the bbq's!. I have since put on close to a stone but addressing it and some of it is muscle so It's not too bad, I just need to cut out the ****e eating as it was creeping back in.

Be disciplined with workouts and eating well and you won't have to worry much at all with alcohol. You can also squeeze a bit of rubbish but don't let yourself fall back into old habits

FTA69

I think most people who achieve athletically while dying/inebriated probably do so in spite of alcohol rather than because of it to be honest. Last time I went sparring on a hangover I had to stop and gawk into the blood/spit bucket, much to the annoyance of the coach. Fair play to anyone who can do the business while dying because I certainly can't!

Perkinstock

huskerdu Great advice,:) we should get used to drink a bit of alcohol, well, yeah, I know it’s hard, but we should try, it’s for our benefits. Remember my friend? The one I’m pertaining in my last post in another thread? He is a chain smoker and a heavy drinker. He used to be an athletic with a good body shape, but now, look at him, he’s like a skeleton, he can’t even run for a minute. I’m trying to help him by sending him some emails regarding recovery treatment such as this Drug Abuse Recovery Charleston, but he’s still not responding to all my mails. I can’t help him if he doesn’t want to be helped, it’s his choice thou.:o

rantyface

Why do people always suggest that you shouldn't drink on an empty stomach?

My usual Friday night is a packet of peanuts for dinner and two pints of Guinness, or four glasses. After that I drink water.

If you eat dinner first that's 500 kcal, then you'd need three drinks to even feel it, so another 600 kcal, and then people who drink a load usually end up in the chippers as well, so maybe another 500 kcal. If I have a proper dinner and three pints I feel woeful the next day but the way I do it I feel fine, a bit hungry the next morning.

Drinking on an empty stomach shouldn't result in getting hammered and puking, if you're not a teenager you should know when to slow down.