Slow Lane Undertake - Points

djimi

Novalee Rotten Self-restraint wrote: »

Is slowly not subjective? 40kph could be considerd slow when speebd limit is 120kph. Alternatively 20kph could be considered extremely fast if speed limit is 5kph.

As per the statute book:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1964/en/si/0294.html#zzsi294y1964a19

(c) in slow-moving traffic, when vehicles in the traffic lane on the driver's right are moving more slowly than the overtaking vehicle.

The key is "in slow moving traffic".

mjv2ydratu679c

Henry Ford III wrote: »

No aggro from me fella.

I saw you were making selective quotes that's all.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1964/en/si/0294.html#zzsi294y1964a19

That's the legal position, and I think it's pretty clear.

No need to patronise also.

Wasn't deliberate - i got if from another site which had omitted that part (http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/answers.html) before I found it on RSA site.

"Where's your link" - chill out - you'll live longer and make less enemies.

nimrod_himself

YbFocus wrote: »

But then why did the Gardai pull him.
As far as I can see you can only pass on the left when the traffic is near stationary, not 50kph.

Sorry if this has already been covered. It's an offence to drive under 90kph in the rightmost lane of a motorway.
Undertaking on a motorway is also not punishable by penalty points in Ireland. It's not illegal at all in Britain, it's merely against the highway code.

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/Penalty%20Points%20Chart1.pdf

Sounds like the OP was driving in a climbing lane and not on a motorway so I don't know the applicable law in that situation.

Taylor365

Tailgate or undertake?

Which is best?

djimi

Novalee Rotten Self-restraint wrote: »

Wasn't deliberate - i got if from another site which had omitted that part (http://www.drivingschoolireland.com/answers.html) before I found it on RSA site.

Thats the problem with these sites, and indeed with the RotR; they are all just laymans interpretations of the statutue book and quite often they simplify the law a bit too much. Ive seen things in the RotR that are simply wrong according to law. The RSA seem to have a habit of doing this.

mjv2ydratu679c

djimi wrote: »

As per the statute book:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1964/en/si/0294.html#zzsi294y1964a19



The key is "in slow moving traffic".

But does the same not apply - 40kph could be considered slow moving traffic when limit 120kph whereas 20kph could be considered fast moving if limit 10kph?

Henry Ford III

Novalee Rotten Self-restraint wrote: »

Is slowly not subjective? 40kph could be considerd slow when speebd limit is 120kph. Alternatively 20kph could be considered extremely fast if speed limit is 5kph.

It's been defined elsewhere, & probably in case law too.

My understanding is that it's stop/start, and bumper to bumper situations, where matching speed is difficult.

I'd be pretty certain that if a Traffic Corps car saw someone passing on the lhs and claiming they were merely maintaing their pace, and passing lane hoggers on the outside lane(s) they'd get done for it.

Henry Ford III

Mince Pie wrote: »

I get that but I also reckon the revenue they could accumlate from idiot tax on the roads would seriously make a huge difference to driving experience and the coffers of the gubberment.
I just find it ridiculous that you can be driving along the motorway and nothing for miles, effectively the whole thing to yourself and still come across idiots using the overtaking lane like their own private highway. :mad::mad::mad:

I learned how to drive in the UK and am well used to driving correctly on motorways. It astounds me how badly the motorways are used here at home.

Same here, and I totally agree with you too.

djimi

nimrod_himself wrote: »

Sorry if this has already been covered. It's an offence to drive under 90kph in the rightmost lane of a motorway.

You what now? Got something to back that up? Because it its true then there are a whole lot of people breaking that law every day on the southbound car park that is the M7 most weekday evenings.

wonski

nimrod_himself wrote: »

Sorry if this has already been covered. It's an offence to drive under 90kph in the rightmost lane of a motorway.
Undertaking on a motorway is also not punishable by penalty points in Ireland. It's not illegal at all in Britain, it's merely against the highway code.

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Licensed%20Drivers/Penalty%20Points%20Chart1.pdf

Sounds like the OP was driving in a climbing lane and not on a motorway so I don't know the applicable law in that situation.

Every time this thread shows up, new eveidence is being quoted.
No, it is not an offence to drive under 90 km/h in the overtaking lane. Why would it be?

djimi

Novalee Rotten Self-restraint wrote: »

But does the same not apply - 40kph could be considered slow moving traffic when limit 120kph whereas 20kph could be considered fast moving if limit 10kph?

Yes it could, but the key word is "traffic", ie if you are in a lane of cars in the left hand lane doing 50 then its not illegal for that lane to be moving faster than a lane of cars on the right doing 40. Two cars on an otherwise empty motorway would not be considered to be slow moving traffic.

greenflash

Taylor365 wrote: »

Tailgate or undertake?

Which is best?

Tailgate, undertake, back to fast lane, brake test and wanker sign is the correct and best procedure.

nimrod_himself

I AM AN IDIOT.

Totally misread that RSA doc. Apologies. Carry on and ignore me!

AtomicHorror

greenflash wrote: »

Tailgate, undertake, back to fast lane, brake test and wanker sign is the correct and best procedure.

And since it seems that this is a black and white scenario, if you don't do all of the above, you are a lane hogger.

mjv2ydratu679c

djimi wrote: »

Yes it could, but the key word is "traffic", ie if you are in a lane of cars in the left hand lane doing 50 then its not illegal for that lane to be moving faster than a lane of cars on the right doing 40. Two cars on an otherwise empty motorway would not be considered to be slow moving traffic.

That would make sense.

Taylor365

AtomicHorror wrote: »

And since it seems that this is a black and white scenario, if you don't do all of the above, you are a lane hogger.

Don't forget the bum out the window too. Bonus points!

greenflash

Taylor365 wrote: »

Don't forget the bum out the window too. Bonus points!

Nah extra points are awarded if you manage to perform the above without losing any black pudding from your breakfast roll.

Anan1

Pique wrote: »

Funny. You accuse Anan1 of making an assumption (a reasonable one at that) and then proceed to make up a huge and complicated story to excuse the lane hoggers .

He does have a point - it's unlikely, but it's not by any means impossible.

Chris_Heilong

I have a solution.

We rename the driving lane to the 'fast lane' and the other two can be called the 'overtake only lanes'. I think this simple change would effect motorway driving habits dramatically.

dr.fuzzenstein

Drove Shannon to Ennis the other day.
A car was travelling in the outside lane, doing (I kid you not) 40 km/h.
A vast tailback had formed behind it, as the car was indicating left to go back into the inside lane.
There was, of course, a constant stream of angry traffic passing the offender on the inside lane.
Every now and then someone slowed down and flashed the slow car in order to let them switch lanes back into inside lane, as he was indicating that way.
There was no movement from that car to switch lanes.
I was stuck behind in the outside lane and eventually I did undertake, whilst (being the safe driver that I am), alerting the slow car in the outside lane to my presence with a good, long beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepppppppppppppppp!!!!!!!!!!!!! whilst going past.
Reaction from the other car? Zero. Of course.
Why did I undertake? Because I was genuinely scared in the outside lane that I might get rear-ended by someone not paying attention. Ditto on the inside lane.
Hanging back was not an option, for that I would have to come to a complete halt on the hard shoulder. If anyone says that is an option, please hand in your licence now.
I would do it again a thousand times. If anyone thinks that is wrong, you haven't understood that the rules are there to serve us, not the other way round.

whomitconcerns

been there. invariably the driver of the hog had their hands in the ten to two position with their head directly over the steering wheel staring forward!

First Up

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Drove Shannon to Ennis the other day.
A car was travelling in the outside lane, doing (I kid you not) 40 km/h.
A vast tailback had formed behind it, as the car was indicating left to go back into the inside lane.
There was, of course, a constant stream of angry traffic passing the offender on the inside lane.
Every now and then someone slowed down and flashed the slow car in order to let them switch lanes back into inside lane, as he was indicating that way.
There was no movement from that car to switch lanes.
I was stuck behind in the outside lane and eventually I did undertake, whilst (being the safe driver that I am), alerting the slow car in the outside lane to my presence with a good, long beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeepppppppppppppppp!!!!!!!!!!!!! whilst going past.
Reaction from the other car? Zero. Of course.
Why did I undertake? Because I was genuinely scared in the outside lane that I might get rear-ended by someone not paying attention. Ditto on the inside lane.
Hanging back was not an option, for that I would have to come to a complete halt on the hard shoulder. If anyone says that is an option, please hand in your licence now.
I would do it again a thousand times. If anyone thinks that is wrong, you haven't understood that the rules are there to serve us, not the other way round.

Just count yourself lucky he was at least driving in the right direction.

rovoagho

Tails142 wrote: »

More often than not I would say that they say nothing about points because they don't want to hear you moaning. Expect them in the post, having said that I got pulled by traffic Corp for running an orange light and got nothing, so who knows.

Yes, but no.

BrianD3

I was "undertaken" by an idiot on the M4 yesterday. Doing 100 km/h in lane 1 with a car behind me. Not much traffic about and nothing in front or behind in lane 2. Up ahead I see slower drivers in lane 1 and pull into lane 2 in good time to overtake. As soon as I do this, the clown behind (who had been happy to sit behind me for the previous few miles) puts the boot down, undertakes me and squeezes in front.

So there's an example of how you can be undertaken while driving responsibly.

whomitconcerns

BrianD3 wrote: »

I was "undertaken" by an idiot on the M4 yesterday. Doing 100 km/h in lane 1 with a car behind me. Not much traffic about and nothing in front or behind in lane 2. Up ahead I see slower drivers in lane 1 and pull into lane 2 in good time to overtake. As soon as I do this, the clown behind (who had been happy to sit behind me for the previous few miles) puts the boot down, undertakes me and squeezes in front.

So there's an example of how you can be undertaken while driving responsibly.

But how did he undertake you if you were passing out a car, where did he get the space from? or were you pulling into overtaking lane very early?

Cleveland Hot Pocket

BrianD3 wrote: »

I was "undertaken" by an idiot on the M4 yesterday. Doing 100 km/h in lane 1 with a car behind me. Not much traffic about and nothing in front or behind in lane 2. Up ahead I see slower drivers in lane 1 and pull into lane 2 in good time to overtake. As soon as I do this, the clown behind (who had been happy to sit behind me for the previous few miles) puts the boot down, undertakes me and squeezes in front.

So there's an example of how you can be undertaken while driving responsibly.

Therefore 1 of two things happened

1- you pulled into lane 2 too early
2- he was driving too fast

I would guess that it was a combination of both.

Taylor365

BrianD3 wrote: »

I was "undertaken" by an idiot on the M4 yesterday. Doing 100 km/h in lane 1 with a car behind me. Not much traffic about and nothing in front or behind in lane 2. Up ahead I see slower drivers in lane 1 and pull into lane 2 in good time to overtake. As soon as I do this, the clown behind (who had been happy to sit behind me for the previous few miles) puts the boot down, undertakes me and squeezes in front.

So there's an example of how you can be undertaken while driving responsibly.

Undertaking doesn't excuse the other driver of being a nutball in the first place.

rovoagho

I undertake drivers like that fairly regularly, they pull out about 7 miles back and "overtake" at 1kph faster than those on the inside. I have better things to do with my time than plod along behind them at 96kph.

They're the same types that stay out after having overtaken a car, despite the fact that they'll travel several miles catching up to the next car.

I can never decide if it's laziness or stupidity. Probably a combination.

BrianD3

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Therefore 1 of two things happened

1- you pulled into lane 2 too early

Really, define "too early" then.

As I said there was no traffic in lane 2. I pulled into it in good time and then the driver who had been behind me for the last few miles booted it to get ahead of me by undertaking and cutting in. A nutball, asshole, clown etc. but no doubt posters will try to focus in on what I did "wrong" here given that it is the norm to attack OPs, play devils advocate etc.

Days 298

I drive on a 3 lane 100kmh everyday. I've given up. I'll take points at this stage. The merging lane actually forms it's own lane but every single tool immediately goes into the middle lane at 80kmh. I'll be at 100kmh entering the road and I'm expected to go across 2 lanes and back again while the left lane remains fully clear with the lane on my right jammed with slow cars for no reason. I'll take the points at this stage but I'll have to ask the guard why he didn't pull over the stream of slow lane hoggers.

Undertaking should be made legal or else the guards should clamp down on lane hoggers. They are the problem here. Some drivers seem to think if they don't speed they are good drivers now and it's only reinforced by the constant speed focused campaigns and lack of any other type.

Also hate being stuck behind one car in the right lane who won't pull over with both lanes on the left empty. Grr I wish I could just turn my brain off and undertake but I cling to the small hope they will pull over :mad:

No lane hoggers = No problem.