Slow Lane Undertake - Points

__Robinhood__

Hi Lads,

Own stupidity this morning, undertook 2 cars in the slowlane.

Traffic Corps pulled me, I produced my licence.

Should I have been issued a ticket or signed something if issued points?

djimi

Should get points for calling it the slow lane in fairness [/boards response]

You dont need to sign anything, no. Im not sure if they need to issue you with a ticket; I dont think they do.

Tails142

__Robinhood__ wrote: »

Hi Lads,

Own stupidity this morning, undertook 2 cars in the slowlane.

Traffic Corps pulled me, I produced my licence.

Should I have been issued a ticket or signed something if issued points?

More often than not I would say that they say nothing about points because they don't want to hear you moaning. Expect them in the post, having said that I got pulled by traffic Corp for running an orange light and got nothing, so who knows.

deandean

I read a great description of the penalty points system a while back: you get two points for speeding past a gatso van or a Garda with a hairdryer. All the other 55 or so offences incur points because the driver give lip to the Garda who stopped him/her

__Robinhood__

He was sound enough in fairness, for a monday morning! It was my fault, fair enough, guess I better expect them so!

dantastic

And the 2 drivers hogging the overtaking lane were allowed to happily continue to ruin everyone's morning and they shall continue to do so forever more because that's their right. And what's the harm anyway.

I find it really annoying the way they target the wrong people like that

__Robinhood__

Bit of an extra sting was the fact that I was following a guy doing it also, he got away with it

Anan1

__Robinhood__ wrote: »

Bit of an extra sting was the fact that I was following a guy doing it also, he got away with it

Presumably he wasn't doing it with the Gardaí directly behind him.

pcbscott

dantastic wrote: »

And the 2 drivers hogging the overtaking lane were allowed to happily continue to ruin everyone's morning and they shall continue to do so forever more because that's their right. And what's the harm anyway.

Or perhaps they continued on their journey - choosing to drive at a 'safe' speed which suited the road conditions.

dantastic wrote: »

I find it really annoying the way they target the wrong people like that

Err... the OP was the one who broke the rules and undertook.

JJJJNR

I actually seen the Traffic Corps pull someone over for lane hogging, so it does happen but they should pull more over for it..

AtomicHorror

dantastic wrote: »

And the 2 drivers hogging the overtaking lane were allowed to happily continue to ruin everyone's morning and they shall continue to do so forever more because that's their right. And what's the harm anyway.

I find it really annoying the way they target the wrong people like that

Isn't it possible that one or both drivers intended to move back into the left lane but then noticed they were being passed by OP? Or that they had moved into the overtaking lane to allow space for OP to merge? OP says he was in the wrong, but rather than take his admission at face value, you're going to have a rant about a pet hate, despite knowing no meaningful details.

Anan1

pcbscott wrote: »

Err... the OP was the one who broke the rules and undertook.

If a car is able to overtake you on the left then you're in the wrong lane.

Scortho

pcbscott wrote: »

Or perhaps they continued on their journey - choosing to drive at a 'safe' speed which suited the road conditions.



Err... the OP was the one who broke the rules and undertook.

If that was the case then they should have been in the driving lane as they were not overtaking any traffic.
the person who he undertook was also breaking the rules for driving in the wrong lane

Cleveland Hot Pocket

JJJJNR wrote: »

I actually seen the Traffic Corps pull someone over for lane hogging, so it does happen but they should pull more over for it..

If they actually enforced the law about keeping left there would be no overtaking on the left possible

YbFocus

This was only ever going to go one way

Undertaking thread Round 85.

djimi

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

If they actually enforced the law about keeping left there would be no overtaking on the left possible

Exactly. Im not saying that the OP was in the right, nor am I suggesting that they shouldnt have been pulled over, but there is a real problem with lane discipline in this country, and perhaps if the traffic corps made a bit more of an effort to get people driving in the correct lane then the issue of undertaking would start to take care of itself.

Its shocking how many people drive in the middle lane not through any malice, but just through sheer ignorance of how to drive on a three lane road.

AtomicHorror

Anan1 wrote: »

If a car is able to overtake you on the left then you're in the wrong lane.

And? That entitles the driver in the car on the left to complain loudly and justifiably about lane hogging, but it doesn't entitle him to pass on the left.

Anan1

AtomicHorror wrote: »

And? That entitles the driver in the car on the left to complain loudly and justifiably about lane hogging, but it doesn't entitle him to pass on the left.

My point is that both the OP and the lane hogger were breaking the law.

dantastic

AtomicHorror wrote: »

And? That entitles the driver in the car on the left to complain loudly and justifiably about lane hogging, but it doesn't entitle him to pass on the left.

The fella undertaking was forced to do so by the lane hogger.
If the lane hogger wasn't hogging the lane there would have been no need for an undertaking maneuver.

The undertaking is a symptom of the problem of lane hogging.

YbFocus

I hate lane hoggers, I can be sure enough that this was an undertake done in frustration. I make them too from time to time, there is no other way to make progress.
The Gardai need to see that undertaking will disappear off there isn't a lane to do it in.
Get the lane hoggers in the right Lane. Problem solved.

First Up

dantastic wrote: »

The fella undertaking was forced to do so by the lane hogger.
If the lane hogger wasn't hogging the lane there would have been no need for an undertaking maneuver.

The undertaking is a symptom of the problem of lane hogging.

Have to admit I undertake on occasions. Sometimes I try to look at the driver who is hogging the middle lane but I can never catch their eye - they are staring straight ahead with a dreamy expression, blissfully unaware of what is going on around them.

UK police on a major campaign to tackle middle lane hogging. Wish they would do it here. Good little earner.

TBi

First Up wrote: »

UK police on a major campaign to tackle middle lane hogging. Wish they would do it here. Good little earner.

And an earner most people wouldn't mind backing!

AtomicHorror

Anan1 wrote: »

My point is that both the OP and the lane hogger were breaking the law.

No, you assume that's the case but actually you don't know enough details to make that assumption.

It's possible that one or both of the hoggers had moved into the overtake lane to pass another driver, and that OP overtook the same driver before moving quickly back into the left lane to pass the hoggers before they could safely move left again. It's possible the hoggers passed another car while OP was merging, after which OP accelerated to overtake the hoggers, who correctly maintained their position until he had passed. It's possible the hoggers initially moved into the overtake lane because they saw OP was about to merge.

Sure, it's most likely the hoggers were in the wrong, but why act like it's a certainty, particularly when OP has made no indication that anyone else was at fault?

Cleveland Hot Pocket

AtomicHorror wrote: »

No, you assume that's the case but actually you don't know enough details to make that assumption.

It's possible that one or both of the hoggers had moved into the overtake lane to pass another driver, and that OP overtook the same driver before moving quickly back into the left lane to pass the hoggers before they could safely move left again. It's possible the hoggers passed another car while OP was merging, after which OP accelerated to overtake the hoggers, who correctly maintained their position until he had passed. It's possible the hoggers initially moved into the overtake lane because they saw OP was about to merge.

Sure, it's most likely the hoggers were in the wrong, but why act like it's a certainty, particularly when OP has made no indication that anyone else was at fault?

We actually do. If you can be overtaken on the left, then you are in the wrong lane

ballooba

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Isn't it possible that one or both drivers intended to move back into the left lane but then noticed they were being passed by OP? Or that they had moved into the overtaking lane to allow space for OP to merge? OP says he was in the wrong, but rather than take his admission at face value, you're going to have a rant about a pet hate, despite knowing no meaningful details.

If there's enough space to over take on the left, then there's enough space to pull in. Only exception would be if the car on the left is an F1 car.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Why were they in the fast lane if they weren't going fast enough?

AtomicHorror

dantastic wrote: »

The fella undertaking was forced to do so by the lane hogger.

Where in OPs post is that stated?

dantastic wrote: »

If the lane hogger wasn't hogging the lane there would have been no need for an undertaking maneuver.

Unless the traffic in the overtake lane very heavy and slow (meaning traffic on the left lane would be forced below 50 while unable to change lanes), there's no need for undertaking. It's not required, you do it because you don't want to be delayed and don't want to get tail gated by less patient drivers in your own lane.

dantastic wrote: »

The undertaking is a symptom of the problem of lane hogging.

I'd agree that probably 90% of it is a response to lane hogging, but that doesn't excuse the act. So you end up matching speeds with the guy in the overtake lane doing 80. It's annoying, sure, but you'll live.

YbFocus

If three cars passed a vehicle and the third one was the first to pull in one might be inclined to think the others weren't going to!

Wossack

Anan1 wrote: »

If a car is able to overtake you on the left then you're in the wrong lane.

Dont think thats entirely true. I've been undertaken numerous times by lads scudding down offramps - they are a little bit too long on some parts of the m50 (the entire length of road between exits 11 & 12 for example)

djimi

AtomicHorror wrote: »

No, you assume that's the case but actually you don't know enough details to make that assumption.

It's possible that one or both of the hoggers had moved into the overtake lane to pass another driver, and that OP overtook the same driver before moving quickly back into the left lane to pass the hoggers before they could safely move left again. It's possible the hoggers passed another car while OP was merging, after which OP accelerated to overtake the hoggers, who correctly maintained their position until he had passed. It's possible the hoggers initially moved into the overtake lane because they saw OP was about to merge.

Sure, it's most likely the hoggers were in the wrong, but why act like it's a certainty, particularly when OP has made no indication that anyone else was at fault?

In fairness its pretty unlikely that the OP was pulled for undertaking while/immediately after merging, and the chances of the first scenario happening are pretty slim given that the first car at least should have had well enough time to pull back in before the OP passed the overtaken car.

I know what youre saying, but lets be honest, 99 times out of 100 a middle lane hogger is someone who is just daydreaming in the wrong lane.

djimi

Wossack wrote: »

Dont think thats entirely true. I've been undertaken numerous times by lads scudding down offramps - they are a little bit too long on some parts of the m50 (the entire length of road between exits 11 & 12 for example)

If they are on a slip road (on or off) then they are not undertaking.

__Robinhood__

It wasn't a motorway/slip road situation - road went from a two lane to a three lane (ie 2 lanes north, one lane south) where drivers could use 'overtaking lane' if needed. The 'hoggers' in question pulled into the overtaking lane and remained at a constant speed there. Hence me and another guy undertook on there immediate left.

AtomicHorror

ballooba wrote: »

If there's enough space to over take on the left, then there's enough space to pull in. Only exception would be if the car on the left is an F1 car.

This assumes both drivers agree on the definition of "enough space", which is unlikely if one of the drivers is breaking the law. It also assumes that the car on the right can outpace the passing car enough to move left, which might not be possible if the car on the right is already at the speed limit.

dantastic

__Robinhood__ wrote: »

It wasn't a motorway/slip road situation - road went from a two lane to a three lane (ie 2 lanes north, one lane south) where drivers could use 'overtaking lane' if needed. The 'hoggers' in question pulled into the overtaking lane and remained at a constant speed there. Hence me and another guy undertook on there immediate left.

Just for arguments sake. Can you please indicate what speeds we're talking here?

cali_eire

I learned to drive on California freeways that have a few more lanes than the M50. Over there, it's a free for all on which lane you pass on as long as you do it safely. To be honest I haven't got out of the habit here but I guess I will have to quickly before I get a point.

__Robinhood__

50kph

YbFocus

__Robinhood__ wrote: »

50kph

They definitely sounds like day dreamers oblivious to everything!

Pique

AtomicHorror wrote: »

No, you assume that's the case but actually you don't know enough details to make that assumption.

It's possible that one or both of the hoggers had moved into the overtake lane to pass another driver, and that OP overtook the same driver before moving quickly back into the left lane to pass the hoggers before they could safely move left again. It's possible the hoggers passed another car while OP was merging, after which OP accelerated to overtake the hoggers, who correctly maintained their position until he had passed. It's possible the hoggers initially moved into the overtake lane because they saw OP was about to merge.

Sure, it's most likely the hoggers were in the wrong, but why act like it's a certainty, particularly when OP has made no indication that anyone else was at fault?

Funny. You accuse Anan1 of making an assumption (a reasonable one at that) and then proceed to make up a huge and complicated story to excuse the lane hoggers .

If those in the right lane were doing 50kph, what then?

ballooba

AtomicHorror wrote: »

It also assumes that the car on the right can outpace the passing car enough to move left, which might not be possible if the car on the right is already at the speed limit.

Why do they need to outpace them? They just need to move left.

AtomicHorror

djimi wrote: »

I know what youre saying, but lets be honest, 99 times out of 100 a middle lane hogger is someone who is just daydreaming in the wrong lane.

We agree on that.

dantastic

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I'd agree that probably 90% of it is a response to lane hogging, but that doesn't excuse the act. So you end up matching speeds with the guy in the overtake lane doing 80. It's annoying, sure, but you'll live.

Are you one of those people with over inflated sense of entitlement to the outside lane?

Move the F over!

If I'm going too fast it's a matter for AGS, not some vigilante.

AtomicHorror

Pique wrote: »

Funny. You accuse Anan1 of making an assumption (a reasonable one at that) and then proved to make up a huge and complicated symptom to excuse the lane hoggers .

No, I provided three fairly simple scenarios which I gather you didn't read. You just saw a block of text. I didn't assume any of these 3 cases to be true, I was just pointing out that it's not guaranteed that undertaking is always explained by someone else's fault.

Pique wrote: »

If those in the right lane were doing 50kph, what then?

Undertake. As suggested in another post I made. The rule as I understand it is that it's ok to undertake if you're blocked from moving right and matching speeds with traffic on your right would take you below the lower safe speed limit.

AtomicHorror

dantastic wrote: »

Are you one of those people with over inflated sense of entitlement to the outside lane?

Move the F over!

Nope. More assumption. Lane hoggers piss me off, but that doesn't give me the sense of entitlement that it permits me to commit a crime in response to theirs.

djimi

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Undertake. As suggested in another post I made. The rule as I understand it is that it's ok to undertake if you're blocked from moving right and matching speeds with traffic on your right would take you below the lower safe speed limit.

Not quite. Undertaking is permitted in slow moving traffic (I think is how it is worded), but this means that if you are in two/three solid lanes of slow moving traffic then its okay for the left hand lane to be moving quicker than the right hand lane. It doesnt mean that you can breeze by a slow moving car just because they are in the wrong lane.

YbFocus

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Undertake. As suggested in another post I made. The rule as I understand it is that it's ok to undertake if you're blocked from moving right and matching speeds with traffic on your right would take you below the lower safe speed limit.

But then why did the Gardai pull him.
As far as I can see you can only pass on the left when the traffic is near stationary, not 50kph.

AtomicHorror

YbFocus wrote: »

But then why did the Gardai pulling him.
As far as I can see you can only pass on the left when the traffic is near stationary, not 50kph.

In my scenario, I'm assuming we're talking about a motor way. OPs case seems to have a road with an 80 or 100kph limit. I guess the lower limit is lower again so.

djimi wrote: »

Not quite. Undertaking is permitted in slow moving traffic (I think is how it is worded), but this means that if you are in two/three solid lanes of slow moving traffic then its okay for the left hand lane to be moving quicker than the right hand lane. It doesnt mean that you can breeze by a slow moving car just because they are in the wrong lane.

Yeah, I've always thought that wording was pretty vague. I think if the overtaking lane on a motorway is down to below 50kph that qualifies as "slow moving traffic"?

TheFarrier

How is undertaking defined??

If I was travelling in the left hand lane, at the appropriate speed, and came upon a vehicle in the overtaking lane travelling slower than I am, and proceeded without changing lanes or speed to pass the other vehicle, am I still wrong??

AtomicHorror

TheFarrier wrote: »

How is undertaking defined??

If I was travelling in the left hand lane, at the appropriate speed, and came upon a vehicle in the overtaking lane travelling slower than I am, and proceeded without changing lanes or speed to pass the other vehicle, am I still wrong??

Annoyingly, yes.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

TheFarrier wrote: »

How is undertaking defined??

If I was travelling in the left hand lane, at the appropriate speed, and came upon a vehicle in the overtaking lane travelling slower than I am, and proceeded without changing lanes or speed to pass the other vehicle, am I still wrong??

Undertaking takes place in a funeral home.

Overtaking on the left would be what you described above. It's wrong but because of the fcuktards that can't drive and hog the overtaking lane while not overtaking, we all overtake in that manner.

YbFocus

TheFarrier wrote: »

How is undertaking defined??

If I was travelling in the left hand lane, at the appropriate speed, and came upon a vehicle in the overtaking lane travelling slower than I am, and proceeded without changing lanes or speed to pass the other vehicle, am I still wrong??

Yep you have just undertook. You must move out and get him to move left for a legal pass.

YbFocus

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Undertaking takes place in a funeral home.

Overtaking on the left would be what you described above. It's wrong but because of the fcuktards that can't drive and hog the overtaking lane while not overtaking, we all overtake in that manner.

Smarthole