Group want to evict one flatmate

ElFuegoRojo

Hello all,

This is on behalf of a group of us with a problem - we've all been living in a flat together (we're all on the lease, I know this makes things much more difficult), but all of us are finding one of our flatmates excessively difficult to live with. It's gone from everyday laziness to worse. They constantly waste our electricity, our heat and all our food (without replacing it), as well as not being able to pay for this excess, all of us have already had to sub them for the rent, while this person wastes money on expensive things.

We feel really let down because all of us really put the effort in to make our place tidy and nice to live in, yet constantly come back to see the place a mess, with dishes in the sink for days on end, our (small enough as it is) fridge overloaded with their out of date, mouldy food. If we leave this person alone in the flat, the electricity bill almost doubles. It's becoming really difficult to live with and we don't know what to do. We've already tried raising these issues but every time we do, this person just gets angry and defensive (they're pretty much like this all the time to begin with).

We really don't know what to do, and it's made worse by the fact that all of us know someone else who would deserve to live there more. None of us want to move out, this person just has no respect for the effort we put in and we don't know how to go about fixing the situation. We've tried being patient, we've tried confrontation but nothing has changed.

HELP!!!!

tinkerbell

Why are you subbing their rent and bills? That was your first mistake. Move out (the rest of you) or ask the other person to leave.

TheBoffin

If all of you are in agreement over this individual and you have exhausted confronting them, then as a group you need to ask them to leave or failing that the rest of the group leave and get a new place.

Leroy42

defo don't sub them the rent. All the other issues, while very annoying and real are somewhat subjective, but if they fsik to rent or bills on time thats pretty clear.

When they miss a payment then you have a clear breach of contract and can ask them to leave. quite possible that you'll all end up with tge shortfall but long term it makes sense

ElFuegoRojo

We've stopped the subbing now, we never wanted to do it in the first place - we really don't want to move out, we love our little place and this person is the only thing letting it down - is there any way we can talk to our landlord (who is a really nice guy, has been very helpful with any problems we've had with the flat) and try and negotiate it? Would it (long shot here) help if we said that we have effectively a dead-cert replacement who can start paying rent immediately?

TheBoffin

we really don't want to move out, we love our little place and this person is the only thing letting it down

I don't think it will come to moving out. If you speak to the landlord and explain the issue them it is in their interest to ensure the flat continues to be let. If the landlord is local, ask that the remainder of the group meet him for a coffee to discuss it.

The landlord is not going to leave a group of tenants move out to keep one tenant that cant pay their rent in the place.

ElFuegoRojo

Thanks for your help, I think we'll bring it up next time he checks in on us

my teapot is orange

TheBoffin wrote: »

The landlord is not going to leave a group of tenants move out to keep one tenant that cant pay their rent in the place.

The landlord is going to want to know they have sufficient evidence to evict the awkward tenant first or they could be making big problems for themselves down the line.

ElFuegoRojo

What would sufficient evidence be? Not being able to pay rent & bills?

Gatling

How does the ESB bill double ,this a guess / estimate or actual meter reading ,

TheBoffin

The landlord is going to want to know they have sufficient evidence to evict the awkward tenant first or they could be making big problems for themselves down the line.

Not really, Not if the landlord speaks to the individual and says that a group are looking to leave so the individual will have to continue the lease with full rent by themselves. Although its a possibility the person could decide not to have an issue with that, if others are bailing them out with rent money and bill money, its most likely they will go of their own accord.

I never mentioned eviction.

ElFuegoRojo

We're on a pay as you go card - we check the averages and they always shoot up when this person is in by themselves! With regard to the heat, we directly know this person is responsible, they always forget to switch it off when they're done and many a time this has been left on for hours.

my teapot is orange

TheBoffin wrote: »

Not really, Not if the landlord speaks to the individual and says that a group are looking to leave so the individual will have to continue the lease with full rent by themselves. Although its a possibility the person could decide not to have an issue with that, if others are bailing them out with rent money and bill money, its most likely they will go of their own accord.

I never mentioned eviction.

That may be untrue. If they are all renting as individuals, the landlord couldn't force one to start paying the rent of the others. And if this person is being bailed out but buying expensive things, you may find when they stop bailing them out, that changes. They have the capacity to pay, they choose not to.

TheBoffin

OP, can you say how long is left on the lease in question? Also is there an individual rent amount mentioned on the lease or is it a total monthly amount?

Pawwed Rig

I think it is something the tenants need to sort out. The LL is entering a legal minefield if he starts getting involved.

Gatling

You's need organise yourself 's ,
I'd let the meter run out on purpose and let the one individual top it up ,
And tag all your food stuffs with lists inside press doors and so on ,
If push came to shove you's all tell the one individual you's have decided to let somebody else who will pay his or way to move in and the end of the next calendar month

Lenin Skynard

I hope you live in the big brother house otherwise you don't have a chance with this. It's one of the big downsides of sharing accommodation and just a fact of life. Unless the guy is actually damaging the property I doubt the landlord will bat an eyelid over it.

ElFuegoRojo

Gatling wrote: »

You's need organise yourself 's ,
I'd let the meter run out on purpose and let the one individual top it up ,
And tag all your food stuffs with lists inside press doors

We've tried all this and this person doesn't give two ****s, I don't think it would harm any of us to raise it to the LL if it gets worse, but we are aware it could very much come to nothing - the worst part is the rent and bills stuff, we know that all the other things only play second fiddle to it.

Gatling

ElFuegoRojo wrote: »

We've tried all this and this person doesn't give two ****s, I don't think it would harm any of us to raise it to the LL if it gets worse, but we are aware it could very much come to nothing.

As long as the land lord is getting his money he probably won't get involved or want to ,

I'd say you make a stand together and tell him /her sorry but your not paying rent or bills we want you to go ,personally I'd pack his bags right or wrong but this person is having at laugh at other peoples considerable expense

TheBoffin

We've tried all this and this person doesn't give two ****s, I don't think it would harm any of us to raise it to the LL if it gets worse, but we are aware it could very much come to nothing.

I agree its worth a try. I'm not getting any further involved with the PC brigade here. We all know that there are means of getting people to vacate properties and landlords do it every day. Your landlord may or may not wish to go down that road, that is entirely up to them. Best of luck with it and I hope its resolved for you soon.

ElFuegoRojo

Ah well, fingers crossed, thanks all for help, it's certainly given us all a decent perspective.

turbot

OP, to state the obvious, have you tried simply all asking this person to leave?

fasttalkerchat

tinkerbell wrote: »

Why are you subbing their rent and bills? That was your first mistake. Move out (the rest of you) or ask the other person to leave.

If they are all on the lease they are liable for his rent anyway. Better to lend it rather than pay it directly and have him argue he wasn't going to pay it so he doesnt owe you.

djimi

Unforunatley you are all jointly in this lease; the landlord wont, and indeed, cant get involved in this, so going to them is rather pointless. They do not have the power to ask one tenant to leave.

The bottom line is that it is your problem to sort; either this person agrees to leave, or as a group you agree to reassign the lease in its entirety to another party and all move out.

djimi

TheBoffin wrote: »

I agree its worth a try. I'm not getting any further involved with the PC brigade here. We all know that there are means of getting people to vacate properties and landlords do it every day. Your landlord may or may not wish to go down that road, that is entirely up to them. Best of luck with it and I hope its resolved for you soon.

PC brigade? Would you care to elaborate on how exactly you think the landlord can force one tenant to leave without opening themselves up to legal repercussions?

TheBoffin

djimi wrote: »

PC brigade? Would you care to elaborate on how exactly you think the landlord can force one tenant to leave without opening themselves up to legal repercussions?

Not really

endacl

Probably full of all kinda problems, but my solution to this would be to tell them you all don't want to live with them anymore. Explain the reasons. Tell them that they've got a fortnight to find a new place, and change the locks in two weeks time. Just don't give them a key. Ask them where they'd like ye to drop off their stuff if they haven't cleared out by this point. The free ride is over. Ye're not his mammies.

I realize this breaks all kinds of rules. Frankly, in your situation OP, I wouldn't give a toss. I imagine your landlord won't either when you tell him somebody moved out, and somebody else moved in...

Gatling

In this situation the 3/4 lads or lasses could easily remove the individual and with all singing from the one hyme sheet ,
Wouldn't be much the one individual free louder could do ,

Me I'd take all his stuff and wait till he paid everything owed and paid the rest in advance before he could have anything back

djimi

endacl wrote: »

Probably full of all kinda problems, but my solution to this would be to tell them you all don't want to live with them anymore. Explain the reasons. Tell them that they've got a fortnight to find a new place, and change the locks in two weeks time. Just don't give them a key. Ask them where they'd like ye to drop off their stuff if they haven't cleared out by this point. The free ride is over. Ye're not his mammies.

I realize this breaks all kinds of rules. Frankly, in your situation OP, I wouldn't give a toss. I imagine your landlord won't either when you tell him somebody moved out, and somebody else moved in...

Actually I dont believe it breaks any rules at all. The landlord obviously cant do this, but I dont think there is anything to stop the tenants doing it. So long as the landlord has no involvement, I dont see the problem.

Two issues I can think of straight off is that obviously the other tenants will have to cover a higher portion of the rent and bills (and the landlord is not obliged to allow another tenant onto the lease, and indeed might not want to get involved at all for fear of repercussions of illegal eviction if seen to be involved), and also the landlord may not consent to the locks being changed.

endacl

djimi wrote: »

Actually I dont believe it breaks any rules at all. The landlord obviously cant do this, but I dont think there is anything to stop the tenants doing it. So long as the landlord has no involvement, I dont see the problem.

Two issues I can think of straight off is that obviously the other tenants will have to cover a higher portion of the rent and bills (and the landlord is not obliged to allow another tenant onto the lease, and indeed might not want to get involved at all for fear of repercussions of illegal eviction if seen to be involved), and also the landlord may not consent to the locks being changed.

They could always be changed back again? Once the issue is resolved?

djimi

endacl wrote: »

They could always be changed back again? Once the issue is resolved?

It depends on how particular the landlord is likely to be. Changing the locks would constitute a breach of lease (in most cases); it depends really how likely the landlord is to find out.

Sort of defeats the purpose of changing the locks also if you plan to change them back at some point!

Gatling

djimi wrote: »

It depends on how particular the landlord is likely to be. Changing the locks would constitute a breach of lease (in most cases); it depends really how likely the landlord is to find out.

Sort of defeats the purpose of changing the locks also if you plan to change them back at some point!

Could bolt and chain the door front door they could easily change a mortice lock and back again,
All depends on how they choose to carry out the deed ,ie inform the person upfront or pack his stuff and place it outside then deny access

my teapot is orange

Gatling wrote: »

Could bolt and chain the door front door they could easily change a mortice lock and back again,
All depends on how they choose to carry out the deed ,ie inform the person upfront or pack his stuff and place it outside then deny access

And then he could call the guards.

Gatling

my teapot is orange wrote: »

And then he could call the guards.

His word against 3/4 others and they will say sorry sir its a civil matter ,go see your solicitor and they will need to get payed too

my teapot is orange

Gatling wrote: »

His word against 3/4 others and they will say sorry sir its a civil matter ,go see your solicitor and they will need to get payed too

I'm not sure that someone breaking into your room, taking your stuff and dumping it outside, and not letting you into your own home is a civil matter. I think there is a crime there. Also, the little rebel plan might work in theory, but when it comes to lying to guards, at least one of those 3/4 will bottle it.

Mrs OBumble

And this thread is exactly why I would never have my name on a joint lease.

OP, social pressure to get him to want to move out is the only option. Try not to be too nasty - you want him to move, not go psycho. But nevertheless you have to be firm.

Gatling

my teapot is orange wrote: »

I'm not sure that someone breaking into your room, taking your stuff and dumping it outside, and not letting you into your own home is a civil matter. I think there is a crime there. Also, the little rebel plan might work in theory, but when it comes to lying to guards, at least one of those 3/4 will bottle it.

If its not locked ,and the door is open no break in ,
And what stuff exactly ,room was empty when we last looked ,
Terrible thing not insuring your personal items and having an inventory ,
Your welcome to come in and look around guard ,

wexie

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

And this thread is exactly why I would never have my name on a joint lease.

OP, social pressure to get him to want to move out is the only option. Try not to be too nasty - you want him to move, not go psycho. But nevertheless you have to be firm.

.....If he's homophobic it'd be most helpful if one of the other housemates 'developed' a severe crush on him

odds_on

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

If they are all on the lease they are liable for his rent anyway. Better to lend it rather than pay it directly and have him argue he wasn't going to pay it so he doesnt owe you.

Although they are all on the same lease, if the three don't pay the troublemaker's portion there will be an arrears of rent. It may be feasible for the landlord to serve a Notice of rent arrears to this one individual if the other three can prove they have paid (with prior consultation and agreement with the landlord). It just might get the troublemaker into motion.

djimi

The landlord would just issue a notice of arrears to the leaseholders though, no? They won't care that one party is to blame. Can the landlord even deal with one party separately? I didn't think they could.

MouseTail

djimi wrote: »

The landlord would just issue a notice of arrears to the leaseholders though, no? They won't care that one party is to blame. Can the landlord even deal with one party separately? I didn't think they could.

No, and they will have no notion of doing so. You are all adults, you need to sort it out yourselves.

fasttalkerchat

Gatling wrote: »

His word against 3/4 others and they will say sorry sir its a civil matter ,go see your solicitor and they will need to get payed too

So the gards will just drive on and assume what? That he doesn't live there and is tying to break in.

djimi

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

So the gards will just drive on and assume what? That he doesn't live there and is tying to break in.

They can assume whatever the want; its a civil matter and I doubt they will get involved unless there is a disturbance of the peace (do we even have that over here or have I gotten it from American TV?!!)

Gatling

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

So the gards will just drive on and assume what? That he doesn't live there and is tying to break in.

No 99% will tell him its a civil matter ,and there hands are tied and they can't force people through doors this comes from personal experience ,slightly different circumstances to what the op is going through ,
It would take a court order for that to happen and been the stingey git won't pay his rent or bills he won't go that route ,
They have plenty of options to choose from how they sort this out they just have to make a stand,

fasttalkerchat

djimi wrote: »

They can assume whatever the want; its a civil matter

And if the kicked out housemate kicks in the front door its still a civil mater or does it become criminal damage?
I don't see it remaining a civil matter for more than a few minutes.

the_syco

Is it possible to get a new lease, minus the idiot, drawn up with the landlord, if you're not on a fixed one year lease?

Gatling wrote: »

It would take a court order for that to happen and been the stingey git won't pay his rent or bills he won't go that route

I find the stingy ones the ones that may claim free legal aid to get money out of ye...

Have any of ye somewhere else you could stay? Call his bluff. Everyone move out two days before the rent is due, and tell him he'll have to pay the full amount. Have someone keep an eye on the place for any parties, and ring the police for civil disturbances if there are (to ensure the idiot doesn't wreck the place).

GoldieLocks99

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

And if the kicked out housemate kicks in the front door its still a civil mater or does it become criminal damage?
I don't see it remaining a civil matter for more than a few minutes.

You are allowed to kick in your own door if you are locked out

Landlord might contend its his door in this case, so the person is entitled to call the landlord and get the landlord to let them in. Landlord then has to get the door open and let the tenant in.

Imagine how stupid they would all look then.

GoldieLocks99

The reality is that if the rest of you are prepared to lose your deposit and move out that nothing else will happen to you.
Thats what you might have to do as you really cant get that person evicted on their own. They have exactly the same rights as the rest of you in that house.
Its not worth the costs for you or the landlord to go the legal route. And the person seems to be very uncooperative anyway.

I think if it was me i would take the easy option. Move out, tell no one and give up your deposit. Its tough on the landlord, but legally, though he may have some rights, he actually has no economical way of chasing you. So wont chase you.

fasttalkerchat

GoldieLocks99 wrote: »

You are allowed to kick in your own door if you are locked out

Landlord might contend its his door in this case, so the person is entitled to call the landlord and get the landlord to let them in. Landlord then has to get the door open and let the tenant in.

Imagine how stupid they would all look then.

He could be prosecuted for criminal damage if the gards establish that he is not the owner. I don't see how they could pass it off as a civil matter when people inside will maintain that they don't want him in.

Chattastrophe!

Some very extreme suggestions here! :eek:

Why not start by all sitting down with the guy together, and telling him that none of you want to live with him anymore. Suggest a reasonable period of notice, to give him time to find a new place, and let him know that you've got someone to take his place and assure him that he'll be given their deposit in lieu of his own.

Obviously this should all be cleared with the landlord in advance - it's unlikely to be a problem though, once they continue to be paid their rent in time.

I really doubt there are many people out there who would try to refuse to move out of a houseshare after being told no one wants them there. Who WOULD want to stay on after that?! Just try to be sympathetic to them, and leave it as a "personality clash" rather than listing out reasons and accusations ... keep it all as calm and civil as possible.

Worth a try anyways ...

beertons

Ask the landlord for a new lease, an updated one. Voila, his name is off it.


Happened in a house i was in a few years ago. Was 4 names on lease. Hocus pocus, new lease had just the one name.