Making every mile count

dublin runner

fowler1 wrote: »

Going to start out at 6 min miles and see how it goes , we have to say
hello before the start.

Definitely. Sounds like we are planning a similar pace. Not too sure my 6 min miles will last for though....:)

ecoli

Hi DR

Finally catching up on the log and first off congrats on some great performances as of late. Out of interest did your coach specify paces for your "Easy runs"? Couldn't help but notice that alot of your easy runs seem a little on the quick side and that there was very little differentiation between your recovery and easy days (save the change in terrain).

dublin runner

ecoli wrote: »

Hi DR

Finally catching up on the log and first off congrats on some great performances as of late. Out of interest did your coach specify paces for your "Easy runs"? Couldn't help but notice that alot of your easy runs seem a little on the quick side and that there was very little differentiation between your recovery and easy days (save the change in terrain).

Hey

Thanks. Just got caught up on your log there myself, brilliant stuff. Going very well.

It's a very good question and a question I find hard to answer! With regards to Easy/Recovery runs, I am not pace drive i.e 7.40 p/m. I rarely carry the Garmin for these runs and judge the pace by how I feel and by effort rather than saying for example, an Easy run must be 7.30-50 p/m. I find that restricts me and prefer to listen to the body. In saying that, my recovery runs are probably too fast and I aim to only run these on grass when the mileage increases during the next marathon cycle (your point is very well made).

My coach never really specified a pace for my Easy/Recovery runs. What he did specify was the actual time between runs to gain maximum recovery on the Easy/Recovery days. For example:


Friday:
11 miles Easy followed by 4 x 30 sec fast strides with 30 sec jog recovery
Sat:
AM 8 miles Easy no pace required
Sunday
PM Long Run 17 miles 7:20/7:25 (try and run this PM allow yourself as close to 36 hrs recovery from Saturdays run)

As I said, I find that one a hard one to answer!

blockic

dublin runner wrote: »

Friday:
11 miles Easy followed by 4 x 30 sec fast strides with 30 sec jog recovery
Sat:
AM 8 miles Easy no pace required
Sunday
PM Long Run 17 miles 7:20/7:25 (try and run this PM allow yourself as close to 36 hrs recovery from Saturdays run)

As I said, I find that one a hard one to answer!

Easy runs should not take too much out of you. The fact that you need to consider recovery from them means that you are likely to be doing them too fast imo.

Slow the recovery runs away down, 8min/mile + maybe even 8:30s and you will be able to save your energy for the sessions and will be more lilely to nail and perform better in them.

ecoli

I can understand the run by feel but sometimes we train our body into believing that it is easy pace when sometimes we are actually working harder than perceived.Taking your recent marathon time some of your runs this week have been within 20 sec of marathon pace couple this with no rest days you may find that you are under recovering for you sessions.

This is not a criticism as it is a common pitfall (I did this myself a few years back and have had a few athletes who had to set speed limits for the first few months in order to re-train their percieved effort)

I completely agree with run by feel but also need to take into account conditioning (not fitness but rather if we repeat the same thing for long enough it will essentially become the default pace)

The thing that really nailed this home for me was running with my old coach (sub 2.17 marathoner) who had me running paces outside 8 min which was unheard of for me (similarly there were times when running with him in the high 7s where I was feeling uncomfortably slow). Over time my body started to get used to the adaptations and my race times started dropping significantly.

Might be no harm once in a while to strap on the garmin just to re train the body while still overall sticking to the run by feel philosophy.

dublin runner

ecoli wrote: »

I can understand the run by feel but sometimes we train our body into believing that it is easy pace when sometimes we are actually working harder than perceived.Taking your recent marathon time some of your runs this week have been within 20 sec of marathon pace couple this with no rest days you may find that you are under recovering for you sessions.

This is not a criticism as it is a common pitfall (I did this myself a few years back and have had a few athletes who had to set speed limits for the first few months in order to re-train their percieved effort)

I completely agree with run by feel but also need to take into account conditioning (not fitness but rather if we repeat the same thing for long enough it will essentially become the default pace)

The thing that really nailed this home for me was running with my old coach (sub 2.17 marathoner) who had me running paces outside 8 min which was unheard of for me (similarly there were times when running with him in the high 7s where I was feeling uncomfortably slow). Over time my body started to get used to the adaptations and my race times started dropping significantly.

Might be no harm once in a while to strap on the garmin just to re train the body while still overall sticking to the run by feel philosophy.

Thanks, that's very good advice.

The point about 'default pace' is an interesting point and I think it applies to my training. Anything slower than 7.30 p/m genuinely feels uncomfortable. It feels quite artificial (forced) and I feel the form and running efficiency goes out the window. It's a mentality thing too. To maximize the benefit of the tempo, interval runs etc you have to runner slower (in my case) on the easy/recovery days. Will definitely look into it and take the Garmin the odd time! Cheers

dublin runner

November 21st-24th

Thursday 21/11
6.65 miles Easy @7.25p/m in 49:16

Friday 22/11
5.04 miles Recovery @7.52p/m in 39:40

I have always kind of known that my recovery runs were too fast so I really concentrated on the pace for this one (a thanks Ecoli for advice ). Nice to remove myself from the default pace I seem to always fall into for these runs. Think I will experiment a bit more and run these slower again, especially when building the miles up for the next marathon.

Saturday 23/11

8.80 miles

Warm-Up 2.81 miles @7.30p/m

St. Anne's Park Run in 18.27

Used this as a tool to get out of bed early on a cold Saturday morning and get some sub 6 minute miles into the week. I was not concentrating on time at all and it showed. It was almost a minute down on a fortnight previous. May have to be careful not to get into a a habit of racing at 80-90%. Will pencil in a Parkrun before the year is out and go full throttle. No excuses!

Brilliantly run race and fantastic atmosphere. I know it may not be everyone's cup of tea but I love the long straight avenue. It's a great section to reel someone in, particularly on the second lap.

Warm Down 2.88 miles @7.54p/m

Sunday 24/11

13.63 miles Medium Long Run @7.22 in 1.40:20

Needed to get a decent longish run in before the Waterford Half next week. Cannot beat Clontarf Strand on a night like this.

Week Total: 58 miles

Next week is all geared towards the half marathon so will aim to take one rest day (not a big fan of these!). Just need to set out a target. The next marathon was to be Paris but that may not be possible now as I may need to be in Ireland the day before. Tempted to do Connemara. Did the half last year and loved it. The training plan would change quite a bit as it's a bit of a hilly course...:) Long runs up to the carpark on Howth Head summit might be in order again!

dublin runner

November 25th-27th

Monday 25/11 AM
6.50 miles Easy @7.00p/m in 45:30

Once more fell into what I thought was an easy pace. With a late night (hungover!) run the previous night this should have been nice and easy in the morning. It felt like easy effort running but I felt pretty tired for the rest of the day for whatever reason. Easy days should be exactly that. Still learning

Tuesday 26/11 AM
8+ miles Various pace with coach

Wednesday 27/11 PM
6.06 miles Easy @7.33p/m in 45:45

Took this nice and easy. Will incorporate a small bit of speed work before the half on Sunday.

Good to sit down on Tuesday and set out the goals for the upcoming year, although it's was a bit daunting provisionally setting out a target time for Dublin 2014 already! I will be booking the Rotterdam Marathon in the next week so that has focused the mind.

dublin runner

Thursday 28/11 PM
5.75 miles Easy @7.22p/m in 42:18
-with 5x30second strides @3-5k pace

Really enjoy strides. They break up the run and get some speed into the legs without taking anything out. Find Winter training so enjoyable. Give me a cold dry Winter night over a hot (Irish) Summer day anytime.

Friday 29/11 PM
5.38 miles Easy @7.34p/m in 40:46

Easy pace has been fixed at 7.30p/m after talking to the coach.

All going well I should have a decent race this Sunday. I have taken it handy enough over the week so the body feels good. This is the last race of the year, baring a sneaky Parkrun, so looking forward to getting down to some serious training and hopefully having a right go at the Tom Brennan New Years Day 5K .

My PB for the half was set at the Athlone Flatline (1.24) in the middle of marathon training so this race give me an opportunity to see what type of shape I am in. I think Sunday will show a lot with my training and target times for 2014 open to revision.

P.s Is there anything worse than running past a person eating lovely smelling chipper chips?!

ecoli

Best of luck on Sunday

dublin runner

Enjoyed reading through some of your log a few nights back. Is your HM PB 1.17? Think i'll be a while before I get anywhere near that!

ecoli

dublin runner wrote: »

Enjoyed reading through some of your log a few nights back. Is your HM PB 1.17? Think i'll be a while before I get anywhere near that!

You may surprise yourself with patience and consistency you may get there before you know it.

dublin runner

Saturday 30/11 AM
3+ miles Easy

The usual pre-half marathon race run to stretch out the legs. Everything felt good so no excuses heading into the race.

Sunday 01/12

Waterford AC Half Marathon

Place: 49th

1:22:35 6:19p/m

Preparation for this race was really done on the back of a solid block of marathon training. The past four weeks have ticked by nicely, picking up a PB in both the 5k and 10k. I felt that a half marathon would be another key indicator of form heading into next year.

After a quick chat with the coach the advice was hit 1.22 and don't go out too fast. With plenty of time before the off I had a decent warm-up and headed over to the pen. I wasn't too sure what to expect in terms of the course layout so set out at a conservative 6.25p/m. Personally, I find the first four miles of any half the most difficult and challenging. I often become overcome with self doubt and find it hard to get into a rhythm and settle (think this may be linked to my warm-up). Around the mile 5 mark I found my rhythm the miles ticked by. The course was tough but fair with a number of drags and sharpish inclines. I found any sharp downhill section very tough. My technique in these sections needs a lot of work (give me an uphill any day ).

What became very apparent is my lack of a '5th gear'. I put this down to the lack of speed work over the past few months. Mile 8 is where I wanted to start increasing the pace but there was very little there. The tank was full but I couldn't get out of 4th gear. I attempted to speed up but it was at best half-hearted. Did I settle for 1.22? I think I did. Could I have done better? Certainly. Am I happy? Yes and No.

I finished and that was about it. I did mention (on seeing a man unable to walk after finishing behind me) that at least he put 100% effort into the race and can go home knowing that was his best. I think my best is still to come but I think I have settled into improving gradually and methodically rather than running the best race I can.

Half Marathon Results 2013

Time|Race
1.35:12|Connemara Half
1.29:12|River Moy Half
1.27:51|National Half
1.24:28|Athlone Flatline
1.25:05|Dublin Half
1.22:35|Waterford AC Half


I am delighted with how this year has gone, don't get me wrong! I just question my approach to these races and how best to maximise my potential (if any ). I think you need to learn a lesson from each race and this race has provided me with plenty to ponder over the next few days.

A big thank you to all involved today.

ecoli

Thats soome progression over the course of the year. Fair play man keep it up

dublin runner

ecoli wrote: »

Thats soome progression over the course of the year. Fair play man keep it up

Thanks. I subconsciously settled for my time to easily which annoyed me but delighted the way the year has gone, can't complain too much!

dublin runner

Monday 2/12 AM
6.2 miles Recovery (no pace)

Reevaluation time.

Since the half yesterday I have done a lot of thinking. Firstly, I have set a target time for Rotterdam with some guidance from the past week from the coach. I am quite goal orientated and somewhat ambitious so I have set myself the goal of 2.48:59. While this would require a 10 minute improvement I believe it to be a realistic target, rightfully or wrongfully! Some target races in the new year will give me an indication if this is a realistic possibility so all may change. I might book the Waterford Marathon in late June as a lot can change between here and Rotterdam.

So, to hit 2.48 will be tough and will require well structured training and a bit of luck on both the injury and race day weather front.

Here are the targets, with Rotterdam being the end goal.

Distance|PB|Goal
5k|17:39|>17:00
10k|36:46|>35:20
Half M|1.22.35|>1.19.00
Marathon|02.58:53|02.48:59


Wish me luck

fowler1

Enjoyed the Waterford half, ran 1 18 55 so happy with the form. Rest this week then concentrate on speed work over
x mas to prepare for Dungarvan ten miler.

blockic

fowler1 wrote: »

Enjoyed the Waterford half, ran 1 18 55 so happy with the form. Rest this week then concentrate on speed work over
x mas to prepare for Dungarvan ten miler.

Great run V on not an easy route.

dublin runner

blockic wrote: »

Great run V on not an easy route.

Thanks! Found the route tough enough to be honest. Legs were a bit stiff even yesterday so the inclines and the sharp declines took their toll. Enjoyed the race but in hindsight the course left me a bit cold. Think Bohermeen is the next target half.

dublin runner

fowler1 wrote: »

Enjoyed the Waterford half, ran 1 18 55 so happy with the form. Rest this week then concentrate on speed work over
x mas to prepare for Dungarvan ten miler.

Great time, congrats. As Blockic said, it wasn't an easy course. Is that a PB?

fowler1

No ran 1 17 20 couple year ago on the out to Tramore and back course. And my training was not as good back then'
Just one of those days when things felt easy.

dublin runner

Great time. I'd say another one or two minutes could be knocked off your Waterford HM on a more forgiving course. Good form heading into Dungarvan.

dublin runner

Tuesday 3/12
8.38 miles Recovery

Almost 100% after the race so happy.

Wednesday 4/12
5.85 miles Easy @7.13p/min 42.15

Legs feeling good so slightly upped the pace for this one.

Thursday 5/12
8.38 miles Easy @7.21p/m in 1.01:32

Friday 6/12
7.7 miles Various
with 5x1 mile repeats@5.42 with 2min active recovery

Running a bit too much on the roads so needed to vary the underfoot conditions so to the treadmill I went. This session was a bit too easy The plan called for 5x1mile@5.45 so with the nature of treadmill running being easier than road running, I upped the pace slightly and put a decent gradient on the machine.

The effort was very controlled and it did not feel at all tough. So either:
A. I need to run these at 5.30p/m on the treadmill
B. I am in great shape!

Saturday 7/12
13.63 miles MLR @7.34p/m in 1.43:13

Sunday 8/12
Rest Day

With long work hours, a hangover and with only having 4 hours sleep the previous night, I decided to skip this one. Really don't like rest days and was 50/50 whether to go out at 9pm but with over a full month of consecutive running I decided to give myself a rest.

WEEK TOTAL: 50 MILES

AuldManKing

that's some session - 5x1m @ 5.42 :eek:

dublin runner

AuldManKing wrote: »

that's some session - 5x1m @ 5.42 :eek:

Probably looks better on paper than it actually was but thanks! Think it may be a bit harder to replicate on the windy Irish roads

dublin runner

Monday 9/12 AM
8.46 miles Easy @7.30p/m in 1.03:25

Positive: With no watch I got this run bang on pace-wise.

Negative: What a nasty run. Felt sluggish, fat and pretty bad for this entire run. It is definitely is related to the previous days rest as I remember it was exactly how I felt after my last rest day many months ago (the exception being a 3 day break after the marathon). People often say to me 'sure take a day off' and 'you're mad taking no breaks'. The truth is that running is not an obsession (i.e MUST run everyday) or a habit (i.e MUST run every day!), the simple truth is that my body reacts very badly to a rest day.

I wonder if I the reaction to a day off wouldn't be so bad if in fact I took more rest days and therefore it wouldn't be such a shock to the system. Maybe it's all psychological. It's a funny one!

dublin runner

Tuesday 10/12
4 Miles Various with Coach

-2.5 Mile Warm-Up
-Plyometrics Session
-5 x 45 second hill-repeats (treadmill) with 1 min active recovery

Going to write this before I forget the pain of today.

Energy was very low today, During the warm-up I felt surprisingly fine and not too tired. An introduction to plyometrics follwed and some back strengthening exercising. I tend to feel somewhat tight in the shoulders whilst running so introducing some back and shoulder strengthening exercises might help me to relax.

The wheels almost came off during the short sharp hill session. I almost gave up after the 4th repetition but dug in to finish the 5th after giving myself an extra minute to recover (I hate to give in!)

I tend to be on the low side regarding my iron levels whilst training so this may be the underlying issue. I will look to improve the diet and equally as important, the sleep! A few days of easy running is in order until I find my groove again.

ecoli

Not surprised the wheels nearly came off Plyometrics before a hill session you really are a glutton for punishment. Tend to do Plyometrics work the evening of a session if I can giving 6-8 hours between sessions and I am in ribbons that evening and the next day.

Wouldn't beat yourself up too much

dublin runner

ecoli wrote: »

Not surprised the wheels nearly came off Plyometrics before a hill session you really are a glutton for punishment. Tend to do Plyometrics work the evening of a session if I can giving 6-8 hours between sessions and I am in ribbons that evening and the next day.

Wouldn't beat yourself up too much

It was more of an introduction into the drills to do but yeah, they are tough! Can see the benefit in them but they are hard. After 10 or so reps it does take it out off you. How often would you do them? Also did a session of 'hanging from the bar' to strengthen the back (v weak) so looking back, all that might have been the reason I found the repeats way tougher than before!! Cheers

ecoli

Only doing plyo once a week though the drills I normally do on my session days incorporate low intensity plyo exercises and I would tend to do these the day of a track session.